|
OctaMurk posted:These people are lying hacks. No one in the state department is going to be held responsible for crimes against humanity, just like they weren't for Iraq, complicity with Yemen and a thousand other crimes, and Bannon isnt getting executed or anywhere near that. That post is from 2017. It's still wrong but y'know.
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 17:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 19:35 |
|
|
Skex posted:Why is it that good faith posts with actual content always get replies that are completely void of any actual content? No one likes apologia, and while your post was written in what you perceive to be good faith- it is terribly verbose content that never actually gets to any point other than insisting that the system can save us. quote:We're talking about extremely complex systems and simplistic answers to complex problems are usually wrong. If you disagree with my argument feel free to provide your criticism or your counter arguments. From my perspective insisting that the system is fine and that the leaders we have are good leaders because the system appointed them is extremely simplistic. quote:Or you can just do like another poster and project your own flaws onto those of us who are attempting to have good faith discussions. Skex you have yet to answer a single argument I've made to you over all these years in good faith. That's why I started simply dismissing your posts save for pointing out to everyone that all you do is write apologia for the system. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
Isn’t there a standing policy or law in the US that if The Hague attempts to arrest an American for war crimes we will use any needed force to prevent that or something? I think that policy comes from the Bush Admin (not shockingly)
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
Lemming posted:Real question, if Facebook is nationalized, how do you ban Nazis? Wouldn't that fall under actual freedom of speech? It would be stupid to nationalize Facebook. For that reason and that it's not really a utility. The FCC and a few other departments should be asking questions about Facebook's and Twitter's organization and start to regulate the ad networks, as they are supposed to. It's internet access that should be treated as a common carrier and strictly separated from content.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:00
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:sorry all my jokes have been cauterized by overexposure to internet When discussing nationalizing Facebook, we should think about what parts of Facebook we want. Facebook the purely social network (peer to peer communication, directory, and public notice board), Facebook the content aggregator, or Facebook the ad agency. I think Facebook the purely social network may be good if nationalized, since it would leave some of the bad parts of the platform behind. That way you can put up notifications about your new cat, and aging farmers can ask each other how their corn is doing or whatever. The caveat being that since it’s run by the state it actually needs to strictly comply in free speech issues. You could still like block people, but it may be a high bar to deplatform polite nazis. You’d want to simultaneously create laws against online harassment and give sufficient tools and authority to deal with that though. But that sounds like a legitimately difficult task to do right. It’s less clear that a content aggregator would work. Again, since there is a higher bar for free speech issues, anything that’s not criminal would likely be allowed. In the case of state media, the content is created by the organization, so you just have to keep reasonable people in charge. But for some kind of nationalized Facebook news aggregation, conservatives will still share the heck out of Fox News or Breitbart and that won’t necessarily get better. Everyone would still see their uncle posting lovely articles and that stuff will still be circulated. In my mind that disinformation is worse than just hearing a bad opinion from a random person, because it appears more respectable so it’s more difficult to just dismiss (for an uninformed layperson). It’s clear that advertising is a scourge and so the Facebook advertising division should be dismantled and have their assets re-distributed to the needy. So my ideal Facebook would just be a place to connect with other people and no real way to post links.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:02
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Isn’t there a standing policy or law in the US that if The Hague attempts to arrest an American for war crimes we will use any needed force to prevent that or something? I think that policy comes from the Bush Admin (not shockingly) it's a law (lol) and it's even dumber than that. quote:The American Service-Members' Protection Act (ASPA, Title 2 of Pub.L. 107–206, H.R. 4775, 116 Stat. 820, enacted August 2, 2002) is a United States federal law that aims "to protect United States military personnel and other elected and appointed officials of the United States government against criminal prosecution by an international criminal court to which the United States is not party." Introduced by U.S. Senator Jesse Helms (R-NC) and U.S. Representative Tom DeLay (R-TX) it was an amendment to the 2002 Supplemental Appropriations Act for Further Recovery From and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States (H.R. 4775).[2] The bill was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on August 2, 2002. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
Blind Rasputin posted:Why do people keep posting their thesis from community college into this thread instead of replying in good faith? I actually thought it was a better, more well thought out response than “the solution is press button that says Destroy Capitalism you dirty centrist” even if I don’t agree with all of it. Its not a bad faith post if the poster is suggesting possible solutions and not relying on smug name-calling. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Oct 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:09
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:yea I guess if I had to rank modern american genocides and war crimes this is probably our most overt with how Trump just openly said the Kurds should be happy he made a 'deal' to cleanse their homes after actively sabotaging any attempts for them to work with Syria or Russia, and then saying Turkey needs to 'clean it out' and poo poo. Yeah I don't really expect it to, but it is the first time one has been committed because of a single person's actions and against the wishes of the military, congress, state, the intelligence agencies, and the majority of the public. Still probably won't because there is a lot of (US) interest in not establishing the precedent of the ICJ applying to Americans.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:09
|
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:...This ends with embedded US troops with Kurdish military and civilians getting hit by white phosphorus doesn't it? I am legit surprised that not one troop has been killed thus far and we've been spared the "nah it's fine" from Huff Daddy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:11
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's a law (lol) and it's even dumber than that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:The most surprising thing to me is that this was done BEFORE the Iraq War Gotta make sure we can get those terrorists by any means necessary  That law is actually really, really sickening and I hope it's something that gets repealed soon, but it's something I never really ever hear discussed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:26
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
Skex posted:Why is it that good faith posts with actual content always get replies that are completely void of any actual content? People might be more inclined to respond to you if you didn't write 1000 word dissertations all the time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
anonumos posted:It would be stupid to nationalize Facebook. For that reason and that it's not really a utility. The FCC and a few other departments should be asking questions about Facebook's and Twitter's organization and start to regulate the ad networks, as they are supposed to. Actually passing laws prohibiting the sale of personal data and such alongside restoring our laws regarding news carriers outright lying to people in a partisan manner and treating advertisements as part of it would help. There are and were laws and regulations and ways to curtail political advertisements that occur on TV. But good freaking luck actually stopping And don't think that Facebook isn't the only one that utilizes shady tactics. A good chunk of what Facebook did to even exist in the first place really ought to be illegal. Since no case was ever successfully prosecuted that said that harvesting personal data for sale to companies (often without the knowledge of the user since the heads up regarding it is buried inside a massive user agreement) is illegal it became a standardized practice. So now there's an entire industry based around selling, trading, and exploiting personal preferences and data harvested from your accounts online. Mind you, with how much corporations have been unrestricted from influencing politics and how overt influencing can get a fix will never happen unless the political and social situation changes. But removing the ability to target ads through the usage of what really ought to be an invasion of privacy through the sale of personal metadata would pretty much be a deathblow for that particular shady industry and go a long way to making Facebook and similar companies a hell of a lot of less parasitic. Edit: Zuck would have a fit though. Dude literally got his start by stealing stuff from other folks. From what I remember the idea for Facebook came from a friend and I believe he stole a bunch of personal data when it came to one of Facebook's prototypes as well. Theft is literally baked into the foundation of Facebook as it currently is. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
"Nationalized Facebook could not ban Nazis" doesn't seem to me like a huge problem given that the current private Facebook is not banning Nazis and is in fact helping them flourish.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:50
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:Someone said stop giving money to them because of the kind of stuff they churn out and you said no keep giving money based on some weird real Leftist eyeball metric. No, the thing I keep saying is that judging a paper by its opinion section, especially the opinions that get posted here in order to generate a ~page of whinge-y shitposts, is stupid. Lightning Knight posted:
You replied to a post linking to an op-ed dude 🤷♂️
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:55
|
|
this is definitely the problem with NYT and WaPo.
|
Sulphagnist posted:"Nationalized Facebook could not ban Nazis" doesn't seem to me like a huge problem given that the current private Facebook is not banning Nazis and is in fact helping them flourish. I guarantee you would find it a pretty big problem
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
Sulphagnist posted:"Nationalized Facebook could not ban Nazis" doesn't seem to me like a huge problem given that the current private Facebook is not banning Nazis and is in fact helping them flourish. Yeah, Facebook is currently much friendlier to nazis than a hypothetical state-run Facebook constrained by the first amendment would be. Hosting nazis and exposing new people to nazis is profitable, state social media would have no incentive to do this.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:00
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Yeah, Facebook is currently much friendlier to nazis than a hypothetical state-run Facebook constrained by the first amendment would be. Hosting nazis and exposing new people to nazis is profitable, state social media would have no incentive to do this. I...Uh, have you seen the newest crop of conservatives? Because I don't think this is gonna play out the way you want in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:03
|
|
|
I mean ultimately the genie is out of the bottle on social media. We have to look at ways that the damage can be contained at this point, and public ownership is probably the best way to do that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:06
|
|
|
Sulphagnist posted:"Nationalized Facebook could not ban Nazis" doesn't seem to me like a huge problem given that the current private Facebook is not banning Nazis and is in fact helping them flourish. There's the potential for lawsuits against a nationalized facebook if they don't treat all threats of violence equally. IANAL so that's all I'll comment on the subject.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Yeah, Facebook is currently much friendlier to nazis than a hypothetical state-run Facebook constrained by the first amendment would be. Hosting nazis and exposing new people to nazis is profitable, state social media would have no incentive to do this. State social media would (perhaps arguably?) be prevented by the first amendment from kicking nazis off the platform, too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
Skex posted:Why is it that good faith posts with actual content always get replies that are completely void of any actual content? fool_of_sound posted:People might be more inclined to respond to you if you didn't write 1000 word dissertations all the time. Was just going to post the same thing. It's time consuming and annoying to have a discussion with someone who can't make a point without a thousand word article. Brevity, use it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:I mean ultimately the genie is out of the bottle on social media. We have to look at ways that the damage can be contained at this point, and public ownership is probably the best way to do that. Sure, but the current process of getting Nazis banned now - which is by no means sufficient - is largely to point out and report them and exert social pressure on the company to take action. I agree that nationalizing is the best way to go, but I just don't know how things shake out when the "Nazis Only" group pops up in the millisecond the site goes live
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
Mitch McConnell: Withdrawing from Syria is a grave mistake https://wapo.st/2J0Yawk Real balls there mitch, doesn't mention Tr*mp at all
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:15
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:I mean ultimately the genie is out of the bottle on social media. We have to look at ways that the damage can be contained at this point, and public ownership is probably the best way to do that. I'm not even sure how you'd accomplish it. The GOP isn't going to go for it since they're primarily benefiting and the Democrats aren't going to want it to happen because most of the establishment are Reagan era corporate stooges that sold out the party or are being trained by them to take over when they're gone. It's very much the same sort of deal as climate change. Everyone that looks at the data knows it's an issue. But no one in power wants to do anything about it since they're being actively discouraged to do the right thing by both our current laws, SCOTUS rulings, and corporate interference. Lemming posted:Sure, but the current process of getting Nazis banned now - which is by no means sufficient - is largely to point out and report them and exert social pressure on the company to take action. I agree that nationalizing is the best way to go, but I just don't know how things shake out when the "Nazis Only" group pops up in the millisecond the site goes live This is actually a self solving problem. There's been a few of nazis only sites already and they always end hilariously badly. The closest thing to a success was that one Twitter/Facebook knockoff. I forget their name. And I think they lost their DDOS protection and maybe even the website itself once the companies they were paying realized what they actually were up too once someone took a look at what was being posted (Read: A gently caress ton of bigoted or outright genocidal stuff.) on the site. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Oct 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:16
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's a law (lol) and it's even dumber than that. This is pretty terrible. Looks like the US is not accountable to anyone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:19
|
|
|
I'm not sure if this is the best thread to ask, I personally have liked to use RationalWiki as a means to debunking Alt Right arguments and gators online; it has in one convenient space, a compilation of events, positions, past statements and so on. But I've heard recently that the rationalist community, which I hadn't realized is a thing. Is toxic and possibly overrun with the alt right. By rationalist do people mean the dark enlightenment people or is there some other postmodern conservative online community I need to watch out for? Is rationalwiki good or at least not bad, do they have any actual connection to this supposed rationalist community?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:19
|
|
|
Archonex posted:I'm not even sure how you'd accomplish it. The GOP isn't going to go for it since they're primarily benefiting and the Democrats aren't going to want it to happenbecause most of the establishment are Reagan era corporate stooges that sold out the party or are being trained by them to take over when they're gone. The system is never going to be able to correct problems that the people who manage the system profit from. Therefore don't look within the system for answers, you have to find answers that don't involve caring that the Republicans and democrats are going to disapprove.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:20
|
|
|
If major structural change to our economic system doesnt change it would seem that demonetizing all the poo poo that makes social media awful would be the next best thing. Criminalize the unauthorized collection and sale of personal and browsing data, come down hard on online political advertising, etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:22
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Isn’t there a standing policy or law in the US that if The Hague attempts to arrest an American for war crimes we will use any needed force to prevent that or something? I think that policy comes from the Bush Admin (not shockingly) Yeah there's already been long standing policy that the US doesn't allow itself to be held accountable to international bodies. But Post-Trump without major efforts to fix this will probably get many times worse as the US slides into an increasingly combative and antagonistic international world as climate change gets worse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:22
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's a law (lol) and it's even dumber than that. Lol imagine believing America is good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:23
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:The system is never going to be able to correct problems that the people who manage the system profit from. Therefore don't look within the system for answers, you have to find answers that don't involve caring that the Republicans and democrats are going to disapprove. You've misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not saying that I care what a bunch of corrupt pricks and corporate sellouts think about the idea. I'm saying they currently have a death grip on the levers that could make such a thing happen. Which means that effecting that sort of change in any sort of meaningful time frame is unlikely barring unforeseen changes in their ability to exert themselves. You're basically talking about at least kicking the centrists back down to the point where they're contributors to the party instead of leading it. Which would (barring a massive social upheaval) probably take at least a decade of work to accomplish. And then there's the fight to actually nationalize the company in the first place. And while both these things were happening you can damned well bet that Facebook and similar companies are going to be doing everything they can behind the scenes with the centrists/third way types to stop or corrupt the process. I'm not even going to get into fixing the GOP since how the gently caress are you going to fix a group whose base seemingly wants to gently caress with and hurt other people? That's a fool's errand. Nationalization assumes that other parts of the governmental process are working properly. And in this case there's a lot of disincentive for them to not work properly. That's why I mentioned that it might be a better idea to push for actually applying regulations to advertisements and barring the current shady as gently caress usage of personal data as a commodity since it's at least less of a fight than trying to literally restructure the entirety of half the country's political system in one go. In the case of the Democrats at least, if enough of their base starts screaming for them to do their jobs and actually push laws to do these things they'll eventually capitulate. The benefit to the centrists and third way types being spineless cowards is that they're also afraid of losing their job and all the sweet corporate kick backs that come with it. So if they have to take a loss on that front and actually half rear end doing something progressive then they'll (very politely) tell Zuck to go gently caress himself. The question is how you get there from where we are now. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:29
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/1185380798075039744?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:30
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ChrisJansing/status/1185513845160402947
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:31
|
|
|
I...Uh...What? What even brought this about?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:38
|
|
|
skylined! posted:If major structural change to our economic system doesnt change it would seem that demonetizing all the poo poo that makes social media awful would be the next best thing. Criminalize the unauthorized collection and sale of personal and browsing data, come down hard on online political advertising, etc. At the very, very, very least we need a complete ban on using any protected class (age, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc) or any combination of characteristics which strongly correlate to a protected class as part of ad targeting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:40
|
|
|
In case we forget it amidst all the bullshit petty corruption drama, Trump is responsible for facilitating genocide in Syria and this poo poo too: https://twitter.com/piperanderson1/status/1185572944136855552?s=21
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:41
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Lol imagine believing America is good. There's a whole list of treaties the US refuses to sign up to.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 19:35 |
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:In case we forget it amidst all the bullshit petty corruption drama, Trump is responsible for facilitating genocide in Syria and this poo poo too: Not only is it loving awful I don’t know that it’s even a real deterrent. If you fear for your kids life and they’re going to get chewed up and spit out by gangs and violence in your home country, you get them out even if it means they go up for adoption in a safe place. It’s just pure cruelty.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 19:52
|
|
