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Phanatic posted:It's a book review. The extended quote is from the book: in addition to peasants into frenchmen, someone on twitter brought up this essay in response to the wishes he were a peasant guy, and darnton is always good http://www.justinecassell.com/CC_Winter04/pdfs/darnton_peasants.pdf
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Oct 19, 2019 21:12
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It's not even about gaining weight or being fat, the gut microbiome changes in response to diet. Eating hunks of starch or sugar creates a spike in freely accessible sugar, changing the bacterial makeup of the gut. Weight gain is being observed in a variety of non-human species as well, including in lab populations whose diets are controlled. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3081766/pdf/rspb20101890.pdf
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Oct 19, 2019 21:16
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MikeCrotch posted:One real important thing to remember is that even if a peasant is eating better quality raw ingredients, they are probably eating the same stuff every single day. That's gonna get old real quick. This was actually not true for the agrarian peasantry, iirc. Middle age farming was mostly subsistence farming, not monoculture cash crop stuff. The peasants also had a habit of fishing, scavenging, and animal husbandry on the side, and as far as I know actually had a varied diet.
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Oct 19, 2019 21:26
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It's processed because a process has occurred
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Oct 19, 2019 21:32
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Siivola posted:The process is called cooking. The word you're looking for is "cooked" garbage. Thank you, but that is what I call english food
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Oct 19, 2019 21:36
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Polyakov posted:The essential plan is that if you take Basra you set off a Shiite insurrection in southern Iraq which would then mean that The People Will Rise Up and overthrow Saddam permitting them to drive up the Euphrates to Baghdad. Why the euphrates and not the tigris?
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Oct 19, 2019 21:37
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Milo and POTUS posted:Why the euphrates and not the tigris? probably because you can surround Baghdad if you can get over the Tigris and pull up to the Euphrates
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Oct 19, 2019 21:49
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Dance Officer posted:This was actually not true for the agrarian peasantry, iirc. Middle age farming was mostly subsistence farming, not monoculture cash crop stuff. The peasants also had a habit of fishing, scavenging, and animal husbandry on the side, and as far as I know actually had a varied diet.  edit: this was sarcasm, read the png HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 21:50
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Dance Officer posted:probably because you can surround Baghdad if you can get over the Tigris and pull up to the Euphrates That's what I figured but I wasn't sure
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Oct 19, 2019 21:54
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Milo and POTUS posted:Why the euphrates and not the tigris? The Iraqi army is largely sitting in its positions along the Tigris and there are more major shia population centers along the Euphrates than the Tigris (Much of Iraqs population had been evacuated from the border regions of the Tigris), it also cuts the Saudi-Iraqi and Jordanian-Iraqi roads more efficiently blocking the Iraqi tanker overland route
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Oct 19, 2019 21:56
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Haven't read it, but since it's about the late 1800s I imagine that the amount of research going into medieval standards for meals wasn't the main priority.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:00
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Phanatic posted:It's a book review. The extended quote is from the book: I like the other work from James Scott I've read, although admittedly it sometimes seemed to lack rigor, but yeah, that quote really isn't very convincing of anything. I'd need to see him address how states functioned that weren't grain based and how it effects his theory. So that means looking at Polynesia, also places like the history of the Banaue Rice terraces in the Philippines which we now know were originally built to grow taro, and the pastoralist empires of central Asia. It's tempting try and rules lawyer and say these nomadic tribal confederacies aren't states, but practically speaking the sure seem pretty similar! There's also a chicken and egg problem, what if states didn't encourage grain cultivation, but the cultivation of grain encouraged state formation?
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Oct 19, 2019 22:02
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:phasing in isn't the same thing as every rifleman with a magnifying optic, though Our unit was already 100% G36 in 2004-2006 (my time in the army), and we weren't exactly KSK-material. We still had some G3 in storage reputedly, but I never saw them personally and we never trained with them. zoux posted:At what range are non-specialized infantry usually trained to fire. 50-300m, depending on weapon. We were supposed to use pistols at closer ranges. I remember one time we were told what to do if ranges are above the ~400m range but I could never quite get my head around it, as I was always atrocious at math and calculating wind speed in my head was a bit above my ability. LingcodKilla posted:My army IT buddy is saying he was never tested past three hundred but he got training on 400 at unit level. Can confirm, we did the same poo poo (testing/training in shooting exercises up to a max. of ca. 200m and a single 300-400m company-level exercise I was on). Randarkman posted:I can't say for sure but at least in Christian Europe it was considered extremely important to baptize a newborn as soon as possible precisely because so many died in infancy. Because a priest often was not available on short notice, the Church ruled that a priest was not strictly necessary to carry out a baptism, midwives specifically were pointed out when it came to performing baptisms. A priest was necessary for confirmation, which confirmed a child's membership in the Christian community (and typically was carried out as soon as a priest was available), but confirmaton wasn't a necessity for salvation. Holy poo poo, I never thought about this, but that must be where the Catholic tradition of Konfirmation comes from in Germany. (No idea if that kind of celebration of a kid getting "confirmed" into Catholicism is practiced in other countries, so I'm going with the German name.) P-Mack posted:Per Catholic rules you don't even need to be a Christian to baptize someone, if the emergency is severe enough. This by the way caused a later rule to be made that states that an emergency baptism doesn't work against someones will, so if someone gets baptized by some random Catholic, you can just go to the next real priest and he'll confirm you're still going to hell if you want to. 
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Oct 19, 2019 22:03
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Polyakov posted:The Iraqi army is largely sitting in its positions along the Tigris and there are more major shia population centers along the Euphrates than the Tigris (Much of Iraqs population had been evacuated from the border regions of the Tigris), it also cuts the Saudi-Iraqi and Jordanian-Iraqi roads more efficiently blocking the Iraqi tanker overland route That actually answers it perfectly lol.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:05
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Squalid posted:I like the other work from James Scott I've read, although admittedly it sometimes seemed to lack rigor, but yeah, that quote really isn't very convincing of anything. I'd need to see him address how states functioned that weren't grain based and how it effects his theory. So that means looking at Polynesia, also places like the history of the Banaue Rice terraces in the Philippines which we now know were originally built to grow taro, and the pastoralist empires of central Asia. It's tempting try and rules lawyer and say these nomadic tribal confederacies aren't states, but practically speaking the sure seem pretty similar!
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Oct 19, 2019 22:12
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Libluini posted:Holy poo poo, I never thought about this, but that must be where the Catholic tradition of Konfirmation comes from in Germany. (No idea if that kind of celebration of a kid getting "confirmed" into Catholicism is practiced in other countries, so I'm going with the German name.)
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Oct 19, 2019 22:14
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I don't know anything about medieval diets but I've read enough about modern nutritional issues to know that lots of traditional subsistence diets frequently lead to poor nutrition. Globally some of the most common vitamin deficiencies are B3, B1, A, and D. Iron deficiency is also a serious problem and causes much higher rates of maternal mortality. These hosed a lot of people up even in the United States where to my understand rural communities were always relatively well fed compared to their European and Asian contemporaries. They only stopped to be a common problem following the introduction of vitamin fortification in the early 20th century. In parts of the southern US pellagra was even called "spring sickness" because people were regularly coming down with it every year in the spring after running out of everything besides corn flour in the winter.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:21
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Libluini posted:Holy poo poo, I never thought about this, but that must be where the Catholic tradition of Konfirmation comes from in Germany. (No idea if that kind of celebration of a kid getting "confirmed" into Catholicism is practiced in other countries, so I'm going with the German name.) Yeah that's where it comes from. In many cases today there's a lot of pageantry, ceremony and importance to it that wasn't really there back in Medieval times. This is perhaps especially true in Scandinavian countries where comfirmation occurs at roughly 15 years and is an important coming-of age celebration for teenagers. This started after the introduction of protestantism. Confirmation was used as an occasion to educate young people in the Bible and Christian (that is Protestant) teachings to prepare them to be confirmed as full members of the Church (that is society). Over time this kind of morphed into a kind of early universal schooling system in early modern Scandinavia where priests in an area would travel to the farms to teach children to read and recite stuff from the Bible to prepare them for confirmation. This is likely an important reason (together with a general prosperity) why the Scandinavian countries had very high literacy rates already in the 18th century.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:26
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It's cool cool cool how people are trying to cite Slatestarcodex ITT.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:34
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's cool cool cool how people are trying to cite Slatestarcodex ITT. 
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Oct 19, 2019 23:41
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Squalid posted:I don't know anything about medieval diets but I've read enough about modern nutritional issues to know that lots of traditional subsistence diets frequently lead to poor nutrition. Globally some of the most common vitamin deficiencies are B3, B1, A, and D. Iron deficiency is also a serious problem and causes much higher rates of maternal mortality. These hosed a lot of people up even in the United States where to my understand rural communities were always relatively well fed compared to their European and Asian contemporaries. They only stopped to be a common problem following the introduction of vitamin fortification in the early 20th century. In parts of the southern US pellagra was even called "spring sickness" because people were regularly coming down with it every year in the spring after running out of everything besides corn flour in the winter. the "degrowth" people are either profoundly ignorant, betting they can buck the odds, or immoral. the "eat local" people are probably just ignorant. they also think things are "natural" that are actually the result of constant tending, like their teeth. so even if a modern person just hosed off into the woods, they're coasting on a lifetime of modern healthcare, dental care, and nutrition. it's not only that you have your current state of health now, it's that you did not have a lifetime of lovely health behind you. inb4 "but why would traditional diets cause poor nutrition, that isn't their point". period societies don't actually know that much about nutrition, assuming they actually had all the answers but expressed them in code ("eating kosher is actually about not getting parasites! eating this herb is actually about the properties modern science only now discovered!") is false. they might have stopped scurvy with fresh vegetables but they also put donkey poo poo in their eyes and believed sugar was medicine because it was white. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 23:46
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HEY GUNS posted:i mentioned that he sucks It deserved more opprobrium than just one of us.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:48
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I always think about having to explain something like my day today to a peasant type person from a previous era. I went on around a 30 mile bike ride today. For me, this burns around 2,000 calories, which is about the daily recommendation for most people nowadays. I do this sort of because I like the activity and because of the fitness benefits, but mainly, because I want to eat and drink indiscriminately and not get fat. So, I ride to nowhere in particular, usually in a big circle, on a ridiculously expensive and specialized machine that can literally do only one thing which is ride about on improved roads with a minimal payload, for the primary purpose of being able to consume an excessive amount of calories, because if I didn't, I'd eat too many calories, and I'd get fat. I feel like the peasant would punch me or kick me in the nuts or whatever the period appropriate response would be.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:59
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bewbies posted:I always think about having to explain something like my day today to a peasant type person from a previous era. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 20, 2019 |
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Oct 20, 2019 00:03
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I broke a bone (fifth metatarsal) in my foot a few years ago. After two weeks in a protective splint it wasn't setting straight (the broken ends were angled downwards), and so a surgeon aligned the two pieces and put a pin through them, which was removed six weeks later. Instead of having a limp for the rest of my life, I walk normally. I've also had impacted wisdom teeth pulled (one of which needed to be broken up in place to be extracted), which was all done with local anaesthesia and sterile instruments. I'm glad I don't live in a roman bust guy's ideal past.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:29
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When I was born my tear ducts were sealed so they poked them open. Pretty awesome to have that capability so I didn’t go blind immediately.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:42
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Dental stuff is good, the quality of dental care is much much better. I recently had my tooth replaced with a synthetic copy that looks almost exactly like a real tooth and lasts for many years. I spent less than two hours having this done and could eat normally immediately after. Basically, anything about modern plumbing. I start the day by relieving myself and sending it to an automated processing facility miles away. To do that I just pull a lever. We do this right inside our house because it's so clean and not smelly. Then I turn a knob and hot water sprays down so I can wash myself. I don't really worry about how much water I use because it just flows out when I turn the knob. I have such stable electricity availability that I am upset if I don't have it for 4 hours per year. And that electricity can do so many things, it's magic energy and we don't even need oxen. taqueso fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 20, 2019 |
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Oct 20, 2019 00:42
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Yeah dentistry is huge. I had 4 teeth removed under general anaesthesia earlier this year. 3 wisdom teeth and a molar that a wisdom tooth had pushed up against and damaged slightly. I went to sleep and woke up with 4 teeth gone and because of the local, didn't feel my jaw for 2 days. Barely any swelling and I was eating normal food within 4 days. Don't think I even needed antibiotics. Now I have a big gap where that molar was, but the wisdom tooth that was causing the problem will be dragged into place (closing an 18mm gap) and replace the removed molar, using some steel wire and cleverly made brackets. Also my top teeth were photographed and a series of clear plates were 3d printed based on those scans to straighten them over time. You'd never know I had braces if you didn't know and weren't actively looking. Modern dentistry is amazing.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:50
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bewbies posted:I feel like the peasant would punch me or kick me in the nuts or whatever the period appropriate response would be. On the other side, there’s the example of a friend of mine who was SF in Gulf War 1, who was eating three MREs per day, which is about the maximum about of caloric intake that you can expect from people, and still losing weight.
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Oct 20, 2019 01:01
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Phanatic posted:On the other side, there’s the example of a friend of mine who was SF in Gulf War 1, who was eating three MREs per day, which is about the maximum about of caloric intake that you can expect from people, and still losing weight. Your friend was presumably getting exercise. I seem to recall that Michael Phelps hit around 12k calories/day during peak conditioning. Google says an MRE is 1250 calories, so three of those is...considerably less. It's not actually that hard to burn ~1500 extra calories between the actual exercise and an increased baseline metabolic load from being in good shape.
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Oct 20, 2019 01:11
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Early Antarctic explorers literally couldn’t consume enough calories to avoid losing weight, even when they had plenty of dense food. I dunno how many calories your body needs to maintain its temperature in that cold but it’s a lot.
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Oct 20, 2019 01:15
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I’m a big fat gently caress and I have a hard time visualizing eating 12k calories in a day. Particularly since presumably he would have been eating relatively cleanly.
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Oct 20, 2019 01:17
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HEY GUNS posted:Doritos themseves sure, but I eat meat, whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Are there any non-woo sources that say these are less healthy than their "natural" equivalents, whatever those might have been? Late but yes: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/a-decline-in-the-nutritional-value-of-crops.html https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237436311_Declining_Fruit_and_Vegetable_Nutrient_Composition_What_Is_the_Evidence https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157516302113
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Oct 20, 2019 01:26
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You know, when you're citing sources to support [argument], it is usually a bad idea to cite one that states that [argument] is bunk. From your third link: quote:Mineral nutrient composition of vegetables, fruits and grains is not declining.
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Oct 20, 2019 01:29
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Your friend was presumably getting exercise. I seem to recall that Michael Phelps hit around 12k calories/day during peak conditioning. Google says an MRE is 1250 calories, so three of those is...considerably less. It's not actually that hard to burn ~1500 extra calories between the actual exercise and an increased baseline metabolic load from being in good shape. It’s really difficult for a human to ingest that sort of caloric load. Michael Phelps was working hard just to get that much food down his gullet. The military guidelines are 3 MREs/day for combat troops, but it’s hard to get them to actually eat them; the 1250 calories is the whole MRE: the entree, the crackers, the peanut butter (or jalapeño cheese which really kicks the peanut butter’s rear end), the drink packet, etc. A lot of them will not eat the whole thing regularly. Making a field ration palatable enough for troops to eat 3750 calories/day of it is a challenge.
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Oct 20, 2019 01:48
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Never broken a bone, but I’ve had a bout of childhood pneumonia that would have been fatal if I didn’t have a modern hospital to care for me. I sprained my wrist at a roller rink a few years later and suffered absolutely no long term effects. Accidentally stabbed an artery and managed to take care of it in my house with only a small scar to show for it. Science rules.
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Oct 20, 2019 02:03
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Phanatic posted:It’s really difficult for a human to ingest that sort of caloric load. Michael Phelps was working hard just to get that much food down his gullet. The military guidelines are 3 MREs/day for combat troops, but it’s hard to get them to actually eat them; the 1250 calories is the whole MRE: the entree, the crackers, the peanut butter (or jalapeño cheese which really kicks the peanut butter’s rear end), the drink packet, etc. A lot of them will not eat the whole thing regularly. Making a field ration palatable enough for troops to eat 3750 calories/day of it is a challenge. Like you said, this sounds like more of an issue with the MRE than with the troops. I sustained 6k calories/day as a teenager (my parents made me keep a meal diary for a bit because of the amount of food I was going through) and I don't remember thinking it was that hard. IIRC it was something like three bowls of cereal for breakfast, two large sandwiches plus veggies for lunch, whatever the family had for dinner, and snacks sprinkled throughout. I wouldn't be able to handle that now in my mid-30's, but my life's a lot more sedentary now too. If I was getting 2-3 hours of exercise every day my caloric consumption would pretty quickly push past 4k/day.
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Oct 20, 2019 02:05
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I had phimosis develop as a teenager and let me tell you life would have suuuucked for me before they developed anaesthesia, at the very least.
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Oct 20, 2019 02:10
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feedmegin posted:I had phimosis develop as a teenager and let me tell you life would have suuuucked for me before they developed anaesthesia, at the very least. sorry about your dingus. I remember some of my friends drinking slimfasts in class in hs just to keep up with their football weightlifting and practice. active humans burn an insane amount of calories and trying to stay on top of that and grow mass is hard. you can only absorb so much before you poo poo it out.
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Oct 20, 2019 02:34
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TK-42-1 posted:sorry about your dingus. till you hit middle age and I have to eat super small meals to not pack on weight like a prize steer i recall those glorious high school days of eating whatever whenever forever
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Oct 20, 2019 02:36
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