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MrPablo
Mar 21, 2003

peepsalot posted:

I haven't tried comparing against 32-bit OS yet, but I kinda assumed that it would perform poorly for my specific application which is doing a lot of large integer math. I guess I'm still not really clear about if 32-bit OS means that 64-bit instructions are then off-limits? Like can you still compile for 64-bit integer arithmetic operations or does it end up decomposing them into multiple 32-bit instructions?

I just tested on my Raspberry Pi 4, and it looks like it's the latter (decomposes into multiple 32-bit instructions).

code:
> cc --version && cat add.c && cc -std=c11 -W -Wall -pedantic -march=native -pedantic -O3 -c add.c && objdump -d add.o
gcc (Raspbian 8.3.0-6+rpi1) 8.3.0
...
#include <stdint.h>

uint64_t add_ints(const uint64_t a, const uint64_t b) {
  return a + b;
}

uint64_t add_array(const uint64_t * const a) {
  return a[0] + a[1];
}

add.o:     file format elf32-littlearm
Disassembly of section .text:

00000000 <add_ints>:
   0:	e0900002 	adds	r0, r0, r2
   4:	e0a11003 	adc	r1, r1, r3
   8:	e12fff1e 	bx	lr

0000000c <add_array>:
   c:	e5903000 	ldr	r3, [r0]
  10:	e5902008 	ldr	r2, [r0, #8]
  14:	e590c004 	ldr	ip, [r0, #4]
  18:	e590100c 	ldr	r1, [r0, #12]
  1c:	e0930002 	adds	r0, r3, r2
  20:	e0ac1001 	adc	r1, ip, r1
  24:	e12fff1e 	bx	lr

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
They fixed USB-C on the Pi4 yet?

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

peepsalot posted:

I would actually be very interested to see something like a poll of RPi 4 owners: "How many displays do you use with your Pi: [0,1,2]".
I have a feeling 0 would be the majority or at least plurality of responses. While I can't imagine votes for 2 would be more than 5%.
I'd assume there are a bunch of vendors using Pis in digital signage applications, where I could certainly see the desire for having two (or even more) display outputs. I believe the Pi Foundation has also specifically noted thin clients as another one of their target applications.

Beyond that though, I agree that the majority of users are running headless or using it as a set-top box driving a single TV.

I've actually been looking in to using one as a rear seat entertainment system that could drive a monitor on each side either mirrored or independently, but that's currently a back burner project as my only running car doesn't have a back seat anyone would want to be in for long enough to watch something.

quote:

I haven't tried comparing against 32-bit OS yet, but I kinda assumed that it would perform poorly for my specific application which is doing a lot of large integer math. I guess I'm still not really clear about if 32-bit OS means that 64-bit instructions are then off-limits? Like can you still compile for 64-bit integer arithmetic operations or does it end up decomposing them into multiple 32-bit instructions?
While there have been ways in the past to use a limited subset of higher bit mode features in a lower mode OS (Win32s in Windows 3.x, Mac OS X 10.2 or 10.3 on a G5, etc.) in general 64 bit instructions require a 64 bit OS.

I don't know if there might be some ARM equivalent of the x32 ABI from the x86 side of things. That runs the CPU and kernel in x86-64 mode but limits each process to a 32 bit address space, delivering most of the memory/cache advantages of running in 32 bit mode while still allowing access to most of the expanded featureset of the 64 bit mode.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

peepsalot posted:

I haven't tried comparing against 32-bit OS yet, but I kinda assumed that it would perform poorly for my specific application which is doing a lot of large integer math. I guess I'm still not really clear about if 32-bit OS means that 64-bit instructions are then off-limits? Like can you still compile for 64-bit integer arithmetic operations or does it end up decomposing them into multiple 32-bit instructions?

Yep that's exactly what happens, compilers just break down complex math into more smaller operations. And if you're using a language like Python or Javascript they just abstract away the hardware from the math entirely and support arbitrarily long big integers. The 64-bit/32-bit means the size of a pointer to memory, not necessarily the size of math operations. A 32-bit CPU (like an original Pentium MMX) can actually do some native 64-bit math using the MMX vectored math operations and ARM has similar things with NEON. Where 64/32 bit matter are with how much memory you're addressing--32 bit pointers can only ever point to 4gb of memory, vs way more with 64 bit. There's a downside though in that if your base pointer is double the size, that means every single pointer for every program that's running will also be suddenly double the size. So if you jump to 64 bit and have no real need for it you might actually be losing memory and hurting performance as less stuff can be cached, etc. It's precisely why there's so little momentum and movement to actually get a 64 bit OS on the Pi--there's really not much that will benefit and a lot that might notice small slowdowns or issues.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

Combat Pretzel posted:

They fixed USB-C on the Pi4 yet?

For what it's worth I've used maybe a dozen cables and power supplies now and never noticed a problem yet. I'm sure there are some well known cables/chargers that don't work but in my experience it's pretty smooth sailing.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

mod sassinator posted:

For what it's worth I've used maybe a dozen cables and power supplies now and never noticed a problem yet. I'm sure there are some well known cables/chargers that don't work but in my experience it's pretty smooth sailing.
The problem is that the way the Pi foundation implemented the USB-C connector, any electronically marked cable will detect the Pi4 as an audio device and won't power it.
You shouldn't have problems with basic, non-"smart" cables.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass
Right, the point is you probably have far less cables and adapters that care about it than you think.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

mod sassinator posted:

Right, the point is you probably have far less cables and adapters that care about it than you think.

Or you have far too many expensive cables and bricks if you're wasting a full feature C-to-C cable on powering a Pi

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

What's my best option for a small screen to carry alongside a Pi for text editing only? Self/battery powered would be a plus but not required, not having to connect over an external network is a much bigger plus. I'm willing to do some tinkering if necessary.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

ItBreathes posted:

What's my best option for a small screen to carry alongside a Pi for text editing only? Self/battery powered would be a plus but not required, not having to connect over an external network is a much bigger plus. I'm willing to do some tinkering if necessary.

Your phone, setup the pi as a WiFi AP and run something like Jupyter lab to get an awesome little editing environment in a browser.

Otherwise, a $150 chromebook.

Little pi displays are not great--the resolution is tiny, they're expensive and power hungry, and just a general pain of wiring and assembly. Some projects are perfect for them, but for getting poo poo done... your time is better spent being productive.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

ItBreathes posted:

What's my best option for a small screen to carry alongside a Pi for text editing only? Self/battery powered would be a plus but not required, not having to connect over an external network is a much bigger plus. I'm willing to do some tinkering if necessary.

I'm not sure what exact size you're after, but this design of screen should work well - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L6WT77H/

Works off USB power, and has a standard HDMI connection, so if you have a reasonable sized battery pack with dual USB ports that provides high-amp charging you can run a Pi and one of these off it for a few hours. 1024x600 is plenty of resolution if you'll just be doing text editing, and 7 inch display isn't too bulky.

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012

wolrah posted:

I don't know if there might be some ARM equivalent of the x32 ABI from the x86 side of things. That runs the CPU and kernel in x86-64 mode but limits each process to a 32 bit address space, delivering most of the memory/cache advantages of running in 32 bit mode while still allowing access to most of the expanded featureset of the 64 bit mode.

Given that so little stuff used x32 that it ended up being deprecated or removed from most tooling and environments for support, I'm not sure people would put in the effort for ARM.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

ItBreathes posted:

What's my best option for a small screen to carry alongside a Pi for text editing only? Self/battery powered would be a plus but not required, not having to connect over an external network is a much bigger plus. I'm willing to do some tinkering if necessary.

What do you want to do, exactly? How big do you want the display to be?

Motorola made a failed "lapdock" product that was supposed to turn a phone into a laptop-like system - it has an internal battery, display, keyboard, touchpad, and even a bad webcam, and just connects over micro USB and micro HDMI. They're useful for Pi-type projects because you get a full set of laptop inputs and outputs for cheap. Used prices are probably in the $50-75 range, NOS for a bit more.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT

Neat. I now have a solution to a problem I never had, and a new toy on the wish list.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
The pi-top or PINEBOOK might scratch that itch, too

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I'm just looking to do light word-processing, nothing but text. The original idea was to repurpose the screen of a dead phone but Google made it seem like that was a no-go. Someone above mentioned networking a phone to the Pi directly which should satisfy my needs, though I haven't tried it yet.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

I have a 3.5" TFT for the Pi 1 which is kind of neat but way too low res to be useful for much, it's like 320x240 or something. The official raspberry pi display is 7" and 800x480 so it's a little more useful. There are some smaller higher res displays like this available:
https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hyperpixel-4

I use a motorola lapdock for some pi stuff, it's pretty neat but you need some adapters like a F to F micro-hdmi and a female micro-usb to USB to plug into it. It's a neat form factor but they were easier to get a few years ago.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

ItBreathes posted:

I'm just looking to do light word-processing, nothing but text. The original idea was to repurpose the screen of a dead phone but Google made it seem like that was a no-go. Someone above mentioned networking a phone to the Pi directly which should satisfy my needs, though I haven't tried it yet.
I would think you'd be better off just getting a cheap tablet. And like, a bluetooth keyboard or something.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Rexxed posted:

I have a 3.5" TFT for the Pi 1 which is kind of neat but way too low res to be useful for much, it's like 320x240 or something. The official raspberry pi display is 7" and 800x480 so it's a little more useful. There are some smaller higher res displays like this available:
https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hyperpixel-4

I use a motorola lapdock for some pi stuff, it's pretty neat but you need some adapters like a F to F micro-hdmi and a female micro-usb to USB to plug into it. It's a neat form factor but they were easier to get a few years ago.

There is a 3.5" 800x480 screen you can get, but lacks touch.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

peepsalot posted:

I would think you'd be better off just getting a cheap tablet. And like, a bluetooth keyboard or something.

Probably, but I've already got a Pi and a USB keyboard, and a more traditional set up at home for it. It's not like this is a mission critical undertaking.

Edmond Dantes
Sep 12, 2007

Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL
Would a Pi be a good idea for a "living room pc/HTPC" of sorts? Connect it to the TV, use it for emulators, steam link, xbmc, nothing too fancy.

If so, what would I need to get started and how hard would it be to configure stuff once I get it running? Are kits good for this? I like to think I'm savvy enough to put something together on my own, but if I can buy a kit that does it out of the box (or at least comes with everything I need), I'd rather go for that because :effort:

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012

Edmond Dantes posted:

Would a Pi be a good idea for a "living room pc/HTPC" of sorts? Connect it to the TV, use it for emulators, steam link, xbmc, nothing too fancy.

If so, what would I need to get started and how hard would it be to configure stuff once I get it running? Are kits good for this? I like to think I'm savvy enough to put something together on my own, but if I can buy a kit that does it out of the box (or at least comes with everything I need), I'd rather go for that because :effort:

I've been using one solely for video playback from a fileshare on my network (Samba server, AKA Windows Filesharing protocol) and a few streaming sites (mostly YouTube) and LibreElec, a distro focused solely around that kind of thing has been pretty simple to use. The Raspberry Pi 4 CanaKit I got got me started with all the cables I needed, a case, an SD card with a few distros in it, and some basic heatsinks, although I did upgrade to a better cooling solution later. I did need to upgrade LibreElec to make it stable, but I got an early kit and it was just dropping a file in a folder on the Pi.

I don't have any experience with the other stuff you've mentioned, though.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass
If you want something that works more than it's a toy to tinker with, get a shield TV. Or a Fire TV 4k is cheaper and can sideload tons of apps, emulators, etc. and run them with good speed (at least as fast as any Pi).

With a Pi you won't get most streaming services like Netflix without a ton of work and dodgy hackery--there's no DRM support in the Chromium browser they use.

ickna
May 19, 2004

mod sassinator posted:

If you want something that works more than it's a toy to tinker with, get a shield TV. Or a Fire TV 4k is cheaper and can sideload tons of apps, emulators, etc. and run them with good speed (at least as fast as any Pi).

With a Pi you won't get most streaming services like Netflix without a ton of work and dodgy hackery--there's no DRM support in the Chromium browser they use.

Definitely this. A FireTV 4K with Kodi installed will let you play anything off your network storage and still do Netflix, Hulu and Prime with the least amount of friction.

stevewm
May 10, 2005
3rding get a Shield TV..

It will do everything you ask but better and easier than anything you can setup on a Pi.

deong
Jun 13, 2001

I'll see you in heck!

stevewm posted:

3rding get a Shield TV..

It will do everything you ask but better and easier than anything you can setup on a Pi.

I have one of the original ShieldTVs (2015). The remote does not have replaceable batteries, and it no longer charge. Is it worth getting a new remote or just donating the thing to the trashman?

Edmond Dantes
Sep 12, 2007

Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL
Well, poo poo, I didn't know the Fire TV could do Kodi and Steamlink. Only thing I'm concerned about is that I've tried steamlink over wifi and it was kinda lovely, so I'd have to get the ethernet adapter, but it should do the trick.

Thanks!

Shield TV seems to be both way more expensive than a fire stick and out of stock everywhere, so fire tv stick it is.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


I'm looking for a minimalist audio player with an interface would look proper in a retro-futuristic (sort of Fallout aesthetic) Art Deco style radio console with a 5" monochrome CRT as the display and a minimal number of knobs, dials, and buttons for input. Any suggestions?

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.

I'm kinda fed up with getting a Bluetooth speaker to work reliably on this Pi 3. Applications have to be special somehow to work with Bluetooth at all, and when the device drops for some reason, there's no intelligent attempt to reconnect.

Are there any small, ok quality speakers that either run off AA batteries or a Pi USB port, that will connect to the audio jack? I have loaded the device with about 100 hours of ambient sounds that I'd like to use to keep my birds chirpy throughout the day when I'm not there to accompany their noise.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

doctorfrog posted:

Are there any small, ok quality speakers that either run off AA batteries or a Pi USB port, that will connect to the audio jack? I have loaded the device with about 100 hours of ambient sounds that I'd like to use to keep my birds chirpy throughout the day when I'm not there to accompany their noise.
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-S150-Speakers-Digital-Sound/dp/B000ZH98LU/

These ones will do both power and audio over USB, they appear as a USB standard audio device. No promises on sound quality.

There are also a variety of other options linked in the "what other items do customers buy" section that are traditional analog speakers with USB-powered amplifiers.

Or if you're looking for something a bit more DIY flavored the Google AIY Smart Speaker kits are super cheap, often $5 and they'll get you one decent speaker plus a HAT with a DAC and amplifier.

None of these options will be extremely high quality but they're all cheap and should work reliably.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

ickna posted:

Definitely this. A FireTV 4K with Kodi installed will let you play anything off your network storage and still do Netflix, Hulu and Prime with the least amount of friction.
Can it play Youtube videos at alternate (1.5x, 2x etc) speeds? None of the youtube tv based apps I've used seem to allow it.

Also does the alexa remote record you at all times and send your life audio to Senor Bezos? :tinfoil:

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.

Neat, this will do nicely. Thanks!

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

GWBBQ posted:

I'm looking for a minimalist audio player with an interface would look proper in a retro-futuristic (sort of Fallout aesthetic) Art Deco style radio console with a 5" monochrome CRT as the display and a minimal number of knobs, dials, and buttons for input. Any suggestions?

Setup cool retro term: https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term (follow the debian instructions on a Pi 4 with raspbian, it just works--older Pi 3's and such don't have enough memory and the right Qt version to work)

Then use a text mode player like cmus: https://cmus.github.io/

cmus inside a funky cool retro term window would be pretty awesome for a retro future thing. Hell you could just throw a vintage keyboard in front of it as the primary interface (it's a text mode app so it expects it) and skip all the dials and buttons and such. Or you can add those too and look for a little daemon that listens to GPIO buttons, etc. and turns them into button presses (Adafruit has one for their mini pi arcade projects).

mod sassinator fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Oct 23, 2019

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006
I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

peepsalot posted:

Can it play Youtube videos at alternate (1.5x, 2x etc) speeds? None of the youtube tv based apps I've used seem to allow it.

Also does the alexa remote record you at all times and send your life audio to Senor Bezos? :tinfoil:

Fire TVs have the android youtube app now, so if it works on android it should work on Fire TV.

The remote only listens when you hold the listen button luckily, at least for the old/original fire TV 4k. They just announced a bunch of new ones though and it wouldn't surprise me to see some of them always listening (the Fire Cube for sure is always listening). But yeah if the remote has a microphone button it probably isn't listening all the time (probably.. we hope).

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
You can be pretty confident that something running on consumable batteries isn't listening all the time. The hardware keyword detection stuff has gotten good enough for devices on the idle power consumption level of a phone or smart thermostat to use it but something that's expected to last months to years on a set of AAAs is doing as little as it can unless you're asking it to do more.

spiny
May 20, 2004

round and round and round

doctorfrog posted:

I'm kinda fed up with getting a Bluetooth speaker to work reliably on this Pi 3. Applications have to be special somehow to work with Bluetooth at all, and when the device drops for some reason, there's no intelligent attempt to reconnect.

Are there any small, ok quality speakers that either run off AA batteries or a Pi USB port, that will connect to the audio jack? I have loaded the device with about 100 hours of ambient sounds that I'd like to use to keep my birds chirpy throughout the day when I'm not there to accompany their noise.

Every bluetooth speaker I own has a 3.5inch line in, assuming yours also has that, then just connect that to the headphone out on the pi. The power issue would be the same as when you were using it as a bluetooth speaker, so presumably that was working OK already.

stevewm
May 10, 2005

deong posted:

I have one of the original ShieldTVs (2015). The remote does not have replaceable batteries, and it no longer charge. Is it worth getting a new remote or just donating the thing to the trashman?

The Amazon FireStick remote works perfectly with the Shield if you want a decent replacement.

I have one of the original Shields as well, but mine did not come with the remote. So I have always just used FireStick remotes.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Picked up a Pi 4. Heard if I want to do much heavy with it I'll need decent active cooling? What's a good cheap neat tidy little casing for it, anything in particular?

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

MikeJF posted:

Picked up a Pi 4. Heard if I want to do much heavy with it I'll need decent active cooling? What's a good cheap neat tidy little casing for it, anything in particular?
I don't have any specific case recommendation, but just to give an idea of the amount of cooling needed:
I put a basic tiny GPU RAM heatsink on my Pi 4, barely larger than the CPU package, just attached with heatsink tape, passively cooled.
I was running it open air, no case, basically just sitting on a coffee table. I ran a process for days on end on all 4 threads, 100% load and it didn't get above 62C or throttle. I wasn't overclocking though.
I would say it depends what kind of "heavy" work you plan to do with it. Will you really be continuously loading the processor?

But yeah I would just look for something with decent ventilation esp. if you go the passive cooling route. Of course a little fan would help even more but you might not necessarily need it.

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Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

MikeJF posted:

Picked up a Pi 4. Heard if I want to do much heavy with it I'll need decent active cooling? What's a good cheap neat tidy little casing for it, anything in particular?

Christopher Barnatt did his own cooling tests with some different active cooling options. It's in video form but I set the timestamps to the comparison charts he made near the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVfvhEJ9XD0&t=851s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6mWImsF9iI&t=793s

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