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Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Baxta posted:

There was some guy who came into the SC sub ages ago to promote his book (On agile development) and constantly repeated that CIG are doing a great job with their agile project methodology.

I think his points were - They are using Jira. They have milestones and sprints, therefore its Agile.

I'm pretty sure a lot of these people have never worked a day in any sort of management capacity.

Yeah, that's the problem with agile. What is agile? Anything and everything. You've got a wall with post-it notes on it in the office? Hey that's kinda like a Kanban board, we're using Kanban! We're agile!

I think many (if not outright most) places are using some kind of adapted version of Scrum or something, and that's perfectly fine. Whatever works for your team, but hopefully that's a place you've arrived at through trial and error. This also leaves the door open for all kinds of snake oil salesmen who prey on managers who've heard of agile or Scrum and want to pay a bunch of money to get the benefits.

When I was doing the literature review portion for my MSc thesis, I read a whooooole bunch of research on project management and requirements engineering in game development, and a lot of it was absolute and utter poo poo, and it was 100% obvious that they had zero practical experience on the subject and were just arbitrarily applying some theory they'd heard in a classroom (or read in some other paper) without considering the practical application or realities one bit.

E: tax

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Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Jira is not a project management tool.

Edit: also Der Shovel is posting quality. Agile is a squishy form you can apply to lots of things, CiG is using it to produce their ‘roadmaps’. It’s not rigid and it’s often misapplied.

Hav fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Oct 20, 2019

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Nyast posted:

The funny part is that although they've completed 66% of the ships, they've done the easiest / small ones.

The hard ones, the ones that are gigantic and require many times more effort than a single small ship, are the ones that aren't done / started yet.

So although in terms of quantities they can be proud of having completed 66% of the promised ships, in terms of work and effort, completing the remaining 33% is going to be a serious pain and will probably take more time than all the previous ships combined.

Pffff, typical goon-FUD. You just increase the diameter of the pipelines and the big ships come out. It's game-development 101, really.

tuo
Jun 17, 2016


Is that a



purrito?

:downsrim:

Agony Aunt
Apr 17, 2018

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Nyast posted:

The funny part is that although they've completed 66% of the ships, they've done the easiest / small ones.

The hard ones, the ones that are gigantic and require many times more effort than a single small ship, are the ones that aren't done / started yet.

So although in terms of quantities they can be proud of having completed 66% of the promised ships, in terms of work and effort, completing the remaining 33% is going to be a serious pain and will probably take more time than all the previous ships combined.

Its more than just completing the big ships. Its also completing the features those ships should have.

Pioneer - base building
Kraken - multiple ships docking and launching from it

I think those two are the most obvious.

Shaman Tank Spec
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



tuo posted:

Is that a



purrito?

:downsrim:

It is in fact precisely that.

SoftNum
Mar 31, 2011

Der Shovel posted:

It is in fact precisely that.

Which isle were those in I don't think my store carries them. :eng99:

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"
HAND MINING, CASABA SIGHNS FLYING OUT OF THE ROCK IN PLACE OF THE SPARK ANIMATION FROM MINING




LIQUID AND GREEN PULSING ON SCREEN

quote:

The liquid sloshing around the screen and tinted green pulsing seem abnormal. Granted I'm brand new at this game and this was my first time playing a Vanduul Swarm match, but I doubt that these effects are supposed to continue past death and reviving in a new ship.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

[

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016

Mirificus posted:

Not empty quoting!

Isn't that 'doxxing' by the SC faithfuls own standards there?

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004


This person is extremely creepy and more than a little scary.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015






Oh my God they never fixed the fact that it's all underwater as far as the engine is concerned lmfao

marumaru
May 20, 2013




yeah thats not creepy at all

monkeytek
Jun 8, 2010

It wasn't an ELE that wiped out the backer funds. It was Tristan Timothy Taylor.

Nyast posted:

The funny part is that although they've completed 66% of the ships, they've done the easiest / small ones.

The hard ones, the ones that are gigantic and require many times more effort than a single small ship, are the ones that aren't done / started yet.

So although in terms of quantities they can be proud of having completed 66% of the promised ships, in terms of work and effort, completing the remaining 33% is going to be a serious pain and will probably take more time than all the previous ships combined.

Well if you take into account the underlying game loops and functionality associated with said "completed" ships the "complete" part disappears.

The medical ships have no functionality, the smuggling ships have no functionality, multi-crew missing large parts of their functionality. It goes on, just because they poo poo out a bunch of pretty noclip objects does not mean they are complete in any sense that matters.

Dementropy
Aug 23, 2010



G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: Star Citizen Turns 7, Still Doesn’t Exist


YT channel “Inside Gaming”, with 1.47 million subscribers.

Pilz
Jul 25, 2016
Grimey Drawer

IronicDongz posted:

usually this is because they're all being made to work crunch constantly and they basically just do not have time if they ever want to talk to their families

I imagine this is probably true of the recent college grads currently doing most of the work on SC as well

Hearing that the devs of Fortnite were still doing crunch was pretty dang disappointing. At the risk of sounding like a filthy commie, I don't think people should be working 60 or 80 hour weeks making a gat dang video game and Fortnite's already making piles of money so there's no excuse. It seems like crunch has just become so normalized and accepted that everywhere just does it.

Pilz
Jul 25, 2016
Grimey Drawer

Beet Wagon posted:

Oh my God they never fixed the fact that it's all underwater as far as the engine is concerned lmfao

No, see, it's actually quite smart. Sure it causes some weirdness up front but eventually the BDSSE is going to need underwater combat in its combined-arms segment, and when that comes up the experience the team has gained with making things work underwater will make implementing submarine combat a breeze!

Viscous Soda
Apr 24, 2004

Nyast posted:

The funny part is that although they've completed 66% of the ships, they've done the easiest / small ones.

The hard ones, the ones that are gigantic and require many times more effort than a single small ship, are the ones that aren't done / started yet.

So although in terms of quantities they can be proud of having completed 66% of the promised ships, in terms of work and effort, completing the remaining 33% is going to be a serious pain and will probably take more time than all the previous ships combined.

Nah, that's not the funny part. The funny part is that they actually have 0% of their ships done. All those fancy things they've promised for ships in SC (dynamic damage states, internal components, repair, breaching, stuff for the crew to do, ship aging, etc.) is going to require a near complete redesign of every one of the "flight ready" ships.

The more ships that are "flight ready" the farther they are from being done. All the work making ships "flight ready" is just wasted effort to make the game prettier so they can sell more JPGS.

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"

Beet Wagon posted:

Oh my God they never fixed the fact that it's all underwater as far as the engine is concerned lmfao

Nope...

Bed Login working beautifully! Logged out on Hurston surface, woke up the next day under the ocean..

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

"It is known"

Yes indeed. All you must do is repeat the mantras from The Holy Book of the Bear and the knowledge of game development will be bestowed upon you.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

colonelwest posted:

Yeah that’s pretty much the mainstream layman’s opinion on this mess. We all know the rabbit hole goes much deeper, but most average gamers wrote this whole mess off as vaporware years ago.

YOUTUBE: The Eradicator - Star Citizen Roadmap: CIG Drops The Ball Bigtime

The same guy who conducted a SCG reaction video with a guest who hadn’t seen it is furious at CIG’s latest Roadmap, ranting that it gives the naysayers the high ground and destroys CIG’s credibility.

Nice FUD.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Pilz posted:

No, see, it's actually quite smart. Sure it causes some weirdness up front but eventually the BDSSE is going to need underwater combat in its combined-arms segment, and when that comes up the experience the team has gained with making things work underwater will make implementing submarine combat a breeze!


This is also why those dudes on the ship in noted Hollywood blockbuster Wing Commander, the movie! had to be quiet when the space catts were trying to depth charge them :science:

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004


Nothing about this is healthy. People are giving money to an overbloated project that has gotten away from itself and shows no signs of ever actually reaching 1.0.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
https://i.imgur.com/HOsf0q0.gifv

MedicineHut
Feb 25, 2016


Undoubtedly a clear sign the transition from CryEngine to Lumberyard is 100% complete.

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development


:stare:

SPERMCUBE.ORG
Nov 3, 2011

Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Baxta posted:

There was some guy who came into the SC sub ages ago to promote his book (On agile development) and constantly repeated that CIG are doing a great job with their agile project methodology.

I think his points were - They are using Jira. They have milestones and sprints, therefore its Agile.

I'm pretty sure a lot of these people have never worked a day in any sort of management capacity.

The aforementioned guy has gone strangely silent...

I bet he sold a few books though. Respect that hustle.

SPERMCUBE.ORG
Nov 3, 2011

Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Friends, when I backed this game seven years ago I never expected that I'd be here five years later to celebrate Star Citizen's third anniversary. That is not smoke pouring from my ears but faith vapors.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

People are unironically celebrating a game that has been in pre-alpha for 7 years. Nothing about this is normal.

Sabreseven
Feb 27, 2016


Yeah, I think perhaps that "Oldschoolsmart" should probably just not be on the internet, I have a feeling he's probably very young and not all that bright.

Or he's just a raging immature moron. :shrug:

Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard

Sarsapariller posted:

Most of Star Citizen's marketing can be viewed as a team of anthropologists uncovering a long-buried nerd subculture and peeling back their layers of anxieties about past video game traumas, one by one, in order to better sell them garbage.

There's insecurity over being an insufferable jackass that nobody wants to group with. Insecurity over your authority not being sufficiently respected, insecurity over constantly falling behind the "Curve" of power creep, insecurity over inadequacy in twitch based PvP combat, insecurity over being ambushed by other players from prepared positions. At the core is the insecurity over big hordes of players dominating their solo PvE play from the EVE days.

For each of these insecurities, a spaceship. For the insecurity about losing your spaceship, insurance. For the insecurity about not having enough time to play and maintain the insurance, lifetime insurance.

Much like the best right-wing grifts, it is an onion of neurotic fears, each targeted by a particular predatory sales pitch.

Hello from page 133, this was a very good analysis.
I want to add the layer of desperation. The desperation for a “dream game”, the desperation for hundreds and thousands of dollars/euros evolving into the BDSSE, the desperation for Derek and the Goons were wrong, the desperation to be able to play SC and SQ42 in the next 3 years on the 3000 Dollar PC they built at the end of 2016 because Chris Failberts lied again about the project.
It is the desperation to not be the idiot who backed this fiasco without a good ending.


SC is the aggregation of a group that desperately hopes they did not swallow the Blue Pill when all is said and done in the future.

Nalin
Sep 29, 2007

Hair Elf
What I find interesting is that there is now enough content to actually create a compelling experience with a bunch of fun gameplay loops, but everything is so unbalanced, buggy and broken that you can't have fun playing it. If they want to sell a playable experience to people, they really need to spend a whole patch cycle just fixing these years old bugs. Make all these missions actually work, fix up all the ship and weapon bugs, and balance everything so an average player can make progress towards their goals. But they will never do that. They would rather sell a new ship reskin with broken weapons to their loyal suckers.

Wise Learned Man
Apr 22, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

Nalin posted:

What I find interesting is that there is now enough content to actually create a compelling experience with a bunch of fun gameplay loops, but everything is so unbalanced, buggy and broken that you can't have fun playing it. If they want to sell a playable experience to people, they really need to spend a whole patch cycle just fixing these years old bugs. Make all these missions actually work, fix up all the ship and weapon bugs, and balance everything so an average player can make progress towards their goals. But they will never do that. They would rather sell a new ship reskin with broken weapons to their loyal suckers.

I don't think they can fix it. Their spaghettikludge code is likely such a nightmare that I don't even want to imagine it.

Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard
If that was true:
That’s like admitting that you are a dumb, ignorant and full denial fanboy that waited 3 years for this disaster to start without holding Clown Imperium notGames accountable? Excuse me?
That’s great I guess, and not a testament of stupidity lol.
Oh, I meant fidelity, of course :allears:

monkeytek
Jun 8, 2010

It wasn't an ELE that wiped out the backer funds. It was Tristan Timothy Taylor.

Nalin posted:

What I find interesting is that there is now enough content to actually create a compelling experience with a bunch of fun gameplay loops, but everything is so unbalanced, buggy and broken that you can't have fun playing it. If they want to sell a playable experience to people, they really need to spend a whole patch cycle just fixing these years old bugs. Make all these missions actually work, fix up all the ship and weapon bugs, and balance everything so an average player can make progress towards their goals. But they will never do that. They would rather sell a new ship reskin with broken weapons to their loyal suckers.

Even they have admitted the engine is at its limits. There is a reason why servers melt after a few hours of running up to 50 players. They are at the point where adding significant game play will require them to either remove existing crap or figure out a fix to the limits of the engine.

I doubt they have the inhouse skillsets or the motivation to attempt any true fixes to their existing issues, as long as, they have idiots showering them with cash and making excuses for them.

Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard
It’s amazing how reckless the Shitizens won’t miss any opportunity to hate EA, Blizzard or Ubisoft and all the devil publishers for their lies and anti consumer bad business practices.

Like these idiots are part of the biggest crowdfunding fiasco of all time and support a memefestival that built It’s fundament on lies, misinformation and incompetence.
This is Freelancer multiplied by the Roberts Clan who found a legal way of money laundering by fleecing the backers with jpegs and without any liability.

How can you diss EA and be mad at Ubisoft when you support a 300 Million pre Alpha POS techdemo that is like 85 % behind the stretchgoals since half a decade and still defend this?

Oh, we know the answer: Sunk Cost Galaxy-fallacy. Thanks botcha :gary:

Slow_Moe
Feb 18, 2013

Mr.PayDay posted:

It’s amazing how reckless the Shitizens won’t miss any opportunity to hate EA, Blizzard or Ubisoft and all the devil publishers for their lies and anti consumer bad business practices.

Like these idiots are part of the biggest crowdfunding fiasco of all time and support a memefestival that built It’s fundament on lies, misinformation and incompetence.
This is Freelancer multiplied by the Roberts Clan who found a legal way of money laundering by fleecing the backers with jpegs and without any liability.

How can you diss EA and be mad at Ubisoft when you support a 300 Million pre Alpha POS techdemo that is like 85 % behind the stretchgoals since half a decade and still defend this?

Oh, we know the answer: Sunk Cost Galaxy-fallacy. Thanks botcha :gary:

There is probably also a nice helping of Dunning-Kruger as well. The lack of self awareness among citizens is almost everywhere.

Dementropy
Aug 23, 2010







:ironicat:

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Agony Aunt
Apr 17, 2018

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Keep pledging Citizens!

One day release will happen! And it will be glorious!

Well, in some way.....

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