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Mogg is  personified this is genuinely sickening
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Oct 22, 2019 20:23
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Rarity posted:Read through the last 6 pages of the thread in one go and it was a proper buttock clencher i was completely making GBS threads it, when the first vote came through i left to go cook in despair and my friend messaged me with quote:IT WAS A TRICK and i nearly burnt all my food
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Oct 22, 2019 20:23
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lol dan jarvis https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1186724655639486466?s=20
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Oct 22, 2019 20:23
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Bardeh posted:who is this idiot referencing loving Harry Potter HELLOO. I AM FRANCES TWEETMANS. I AM VERY PRECOCIOUS FOR MY AGE, YOU KNOW. I HAVE LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF FRIENDS WHO THINK I AM AWFULLY CLEVER 
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Oct 22, 2019 20:23
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Seems to me that if the 19 Labour rebels had voted with the Labour Party, then the WA Bill would have been voted down.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:29
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Carborundum posted:In this thread's opinion, what Brexit outcome will actually help Labour?
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Oct 22, 2019 20:29
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So who will have the saltiest headline tomorrow, the Daily Telegraph or The Daily Mail? Edit: Oh, gently caress, right, The Express. Rincewinds fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Oct 22, 2019 |
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Oct 22, 2019 20:32
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Rincewinds posted:So who will have the saltiest headline tomorrow, the Telegraph or The Daily Mail? The Express. WHY CANT WW LEEEEEEEEEAVE 
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Oct 22, 2019 20:32
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jBrereton posted:There is no brexit outcome short of revocation that will help Labour. lexit though
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Oct 22, 2019 20:34
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Rincewinds posted:So who will have the saltiest headline tomorrow, the Telegraph or The Daily Mail? The Express
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Oct 22, 2019 20:34
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Pesmerga posted:Seems to me that if the 19 Labour rebels had voted with the Labour Party, then the WA Bill would have been voted down. Yeah? Aren't we now stuck with this lovely deal? How is voting for a delay a big victory?
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Oct 22, 2019 20:35
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The deal does not pass until it passes its third reading, and the primary effort has always been to secure an extension from the EU so that the government can be safely no confidenced without us crashing out in the middle of the election. Which means the critical thing to do is delay long enough for the EU to respond to the extension request. If an election is called that completely resets parliament, any in-progress legislation gets canceled and has to start again from the beginning, and the idea is to get a labour majority or at the very least, to reduce the conservative majority so far that they can't get brexit through. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 22, 2019 |
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Oct 22, 2019 20:37
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alphabettitouretti posted:Yeah? Aren't we now stuck with this lovely deal? How is voting for a delay a big victory?
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Oct 22, 2019 20:37
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Pesmerga posted:Seems to me that if the 19 Labour rebels had voted with the Labour Party, then the WA Bill would have been voted down. And if the fourteen MPs who rebelled on the WA Bill then voted against the timetable had instead rebelled on both, say because they were already being kicked out of the party so who cares what the whip says, then both would have passed.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:40
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And all this is better than getting it off the table completely because? Seriously, by this logic you should have been supporting May’s deal going through.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:40
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Pesmerga posted:And all this is better than getting it off the table completely because? They aren't going to vote it off the table and there is nothing you can do to make them do that.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:41
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OwlFancier posted:They aren't going to vote it off the table and there is nothing you can do to make them do that. If the rebels had voted with labour they would have. And again - everyone should have supported May’s deal and then tried to customs union it, on this reasoning.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:43
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Pesmerga posted:If the rebels had voted with labour they would have. And again - everyone should have supported May’s deal and then tried to customs union it, on this reasoning. They aren't going to vote with labour to vote the deal down unconditionally.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:44
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OwlFancier posted:They aren't going to vote with labour to vote the deal down unconditionally. A substantial number voted down May’s deal repeatedly.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:45
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Pesmerga posted:A substantial number voted down May’s deal repeatedly. Right, but they aren't going to vote this one down, they've made that eminently clear.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:46
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jabby posted:Voting down the Queen's speech doesn't bring down the government any more. It has to be a two-thirds majority or a confidence vote. Yeah, but we're in this for the perfect historic moment where the queens speech gets voted down for the first time in almost a hundred years and then Corbyn gently inserts the cherry by putting a bangin' VONC on it.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:46
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josh04 posted:And if the fourteen MPs who rebelled on the WA Bill then voted against the timetable had instead rebelled on both, say because they were already being kicked out of the party so who cares what the whip says, then both would have passed. oh come on.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:47
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This isn’t some victory, at this rate, it’s just delaying defeat as Labour go from rearguard action to rearguard action, and unless something changes, the deal is going to get through at the third stage. All this talk of the wreckers somehow coming around between now and then is hubristic.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:49
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If it gets to the third stage. There is a very good chance it will not because it may well get pulled, amended, or cancelled due to a vote of no confidence before then.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:51
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The #fbpe is coming from inside the thread
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Oct 22, 2019 20:51
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OwlFancier posted:If it gets to the third stage. There is a very good chance it will not because it may well get pulled, amended, or cancelled due to a vote of no confidence before then. Possibly even all three!
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Oct 22, 2019 20:52
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Saying if all the rebels would have voted against it would be dead is pointless because they're not going to vote against it. The options are what you do about that, and providing every alternative opportunity for the bill to fail is a very sensible approach.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:53
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OwlFancier posted:Saying if all the rebels would have voted against it would be dead is pointless because they're not going to vote against it. The options are what you do about that, and providing every alternative opportunity for the bill to fail is a very sensible approach. No, but if Labour just used their magic powers it would be 2012 again and everything would be great
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Oct 22, 2019 20:54
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:oh come on. If you disagree, feel free to explain why.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:55
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Personally I think Boris missing his dead in a ditch deadline, failing to pass a queen's speech, being no confidenced, and labour blasting into an election campaign with a shitload of good policies while boris can only waffle about his lovely brexit deal is probably the best chance we're going to get.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:56
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:The #fbpe is coming from inside the thread  I see any disagreement is now FBPE.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:57
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Pesmerga posted:
No, specifically your disagreements are FBPE.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:59
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Pesmerga posted:
Well you want Corbyn to magic Brexit away as the opposition, which is peak loving FBPE
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Oct 22, 2019 21:00
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Firos posted:No, specifically your disagreements are FBPE. Why, to say that Labour wreckers are loving this, and if there were a time for Corbyn to start laying down party discipline it would be now? I think that the thread is too optimistic about all this somehow leading to a Labour government, rather than an amendment to have a customs union being voted down because it doesn’t end up with the support of the house, and you have people like Flint, Nandy, Fitzpatrick and Orr potentially voting against it for various reasons.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:03
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So much of the appeal of Brexit at this point is the feeling that you’re moving somewhere and not just stuck in some bureaucratic limbo, right? Can the Lib Dems and other organizations start selling “Remain” now as the best way to get over all this crap and move on? “You got conned. Everyone makes mistakes. There’s no shame in backing out of a bad deal.” I guess you still get stuck in the anti-democratic trap without the second referendum.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:03
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OwlFancier posted:Personally I think Boris missing his dead in a ditch deadline, failing to pass a queen's speech, being no confidenced, and labour blasting into an election campaign with a shitload of good policies while boris can only waffle about his lovely brexit deal is probably the best chance we're going to get. Having the Lib Dems caught waffling between revoke or second ref could also be pretty useful tbh. They still scoop up the hard-remain tories in those marginals but the obviously undemocratic revoke is decent ammo to use against them in Lib/Lab marginals.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:03
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Well you want Corbyn to magic Brexit away as the opposition, which is peak loving FBPE He voted against the second reading, but said he just hoped people like Flint would too. They all voted against May’s version. Which everyone approved of, but now voting for this one is good politics despite Corbyn voting against because it’s a terrible Bill worse than the last one? Again, by the reasoning of ‘but we can amend it at third reading’, then that should have happened with May’s version, which was not as terrible.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:05
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Pesmerga posted:Why, to say that Labour wreckers are loving this, and if there were a time for Corbyn to start laying down party discipline it would be now? I think that the thread is too optimistic about all this somehow leading to a Labour government, rather than an amendment to have a customs union being voted down because it doesn’t end up with the support of the house, and you have people like Flint, Nandy, Fitzpatrick and Orr potentially voting against it for various reasons. You are assuming that corbyn can "lay down party discipline" in such a way as to make people do what he says, which isn't how MPs work. You can't fire an MP. It's like if you boss couldn't actually fire you but came in threatening to stop telling you what to do, how would you react? Pesmerga posted:He voted against the second reading, but said he just hoped people like Flint would too. They all voted against May’s version. Which everyone approved of, but now voting for this one is good politics despite Corbyn voting against because it’s a terrible Bill worse than the last one? Again, by the reasoning of ‘but we can amend it at third reading’, then that should have happened with May’s version, which was not as terrible. They're voting for it for a variety of reasons, some of them have likely been paid off, some of them are quitting anyway, some of them are worried they'll look too remainy to their constituents, some of them are worried that it's this or no deal. None of that is likely to be solved by threats.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:06
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OwlFancier posted:You are assuming that corbyn can "lay down party discipline" in such a way as to make people do what he says, which isn't how MPs work. In which case the whip system is largely pointless, as is the idea of political parties, if anyone just votes whichever way.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:07
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politely, what would turfing them from the party accomplish save forcing a split the Corbyn project has made every effort to avoid? it sure didn’t make boris seem stronger, and he has the press onside, loving imagine the headlines about Stalinism that would generate. deselection must come from the membership to be legitimate at all, it’s why they keep jumping rather than being pushed. this time not that long ago you’d be bemoaning how woodcock, field and hoey should be kicked out.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:07
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