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Didn't we already have a one year delay to work on bugfixes?
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Oct 22, 2019 19:36
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Mike the TV posted:Didn't we already have a one year delay to work on bugfixes? Will you see, the bug fixes were themselves bugs. So now we have six more months of bug fixes.
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Oct 22, 2019 19:38
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I've always called this the speed of bugs theory. You can only approach zero bugs.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:06
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pik_d posted:So all the bugs that Fdev recently introduced have had a side effect of pushing back Fleet Carriers until 2020 Q2. The good news is that the bug fix patches will have a public beta. What a lazy last minute excuse! Ok public betas is a good idea, so why not do a Fleet Carrier beta in December? If they were anywhere close to ready to release the Fleet Carriers update in December (like they promised) there would be enough content for a beta. Then they have the gall to talk about the super dooper secret update coming even later that Carriers. Just wait another year! lol Fronteer if you can't release this carrier update on time I'm not waiting around for your double secret project that will never exist.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:53
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Fleet carriers are cool and all but the players petitioned for bugfixes, so  Personally I'd rather have the fixes, assuming they're going to do a proper job of them. Not much point in giving us carriers if they don't work right and the patch also breaks every other aspect of the game, as is currently the tradition 
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Oct 23, 2019 00:30
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speaking of guardian modules, what's a good way to farm focus crystals? i want my fsd booster because lol if im bothering to install a mining laser to make jumponium
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Oct 23, 2019 00:58
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Larry Parrish posted:speaking of guardian modules, what's a good way to farm focus crystals? i want my fsd booster because lol if im bothering to install a mining laser to make jumponium go to the nearest high grade signal source in whatever system you are currently in, pick up the poo poo there, go to a mfg material trader and trade it for focus crystals
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Oct 23, 2019 01:22
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Pilchenstein posted:Fleet carriers are cool and all but the players petitioned for bugfixes, so But why delay a big content update that is presumably already finished? If they were on schedule the fleet carrier update should be nearly done, December is a month away. They don't have anything else big planned for all of 2020 until the "big project" at the end of the year. Presumably they would have been focusing on bug fixes for that time anyway. This feels more like an excuse to me. They haven't finished the Fleet Carrier content on time and they are panicking. They know it won't be done by December so they are making up this "change in direction" to put a positive spin on the delay.
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Oct 23, 2019 01:32
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i bet its extremely hard to add features to this game in 2019 without breaking poo poo. it has been getting new major features on a regular basis for over 5 years now the public beta is a good move. its probably no longer possible to test updates in Elite without crowdsourcing it
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Oct 23, 2019 01:45
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 I'm just really bummed. I've been waiting and preparing to do a big expedition as soon as the carriers came out, and this announcement just kind of drains my enthusiasm to keep playing towards that goal.
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Oct 23, 2019 01:52
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Rutibex posted:
ED is a game for people who like being disappointed
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Oct 23, 2019 01:55
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hakimashou posted:ED is a game for people who like being disappointed wow a dick joke and a new thread title 
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Oct 23, 2019 02:37
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Rutibex posted:But why delay a big content update that is presumably already finished?
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Oct 23, 2019 03:27
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What are the bugs people are so upset about?
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Oct 23, 2019 03:34
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hakimashou posted:What are the bugs people are so upset about? Thargoids
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Oct 23, 2019 03:43
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Have we played the same game? Because there's tons of them, terrible design choices notwithstanding.
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Oct 23, 2019 04:07
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What are people looking for in carriers anyway, like how is this big dumb loving thing following me through the galaxy or whatever and what am I fueling it with (I instinctively know it's poo poo I'm having to mine)
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Oct 23, 2019 04:21
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Have we played the same game? I played ED a bunch in the past month or so, I think the only bug I noticed was the module priority screen getting hosed up if you switched ships, but didn't relog. And they fixed that a while ago.
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Oct 23, 2019 04:30
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hakimashou posted:What are the bugs people are so upset about? I asked this same question in Discord and the answer I was given was "if you play solo and just mine/trade/shoot NPCs then you probably wouldn't know anything is amiss" but got the distinct feeling that the answer giver had a thousand yard stare while in the fetal position under his desk rock slowly back and forth when it came to Frontier bugs.
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Oct 23, 2019 04:57
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hakimashou posted:go to the nearest high grade signal source in whatever system you are currently in, pick up the poo poo there, go to a mfg material trader and trade it for focus crystals I thought you could only trade stuff for the same type of stuff at a different grade. So can i trade like, chemical processors for focus crystals?
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Oct 23, 2019 05:07
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Larry Parrish posted:I thought you could only trade stuff for the same type of stuff at a different grade. So can i trade like, chemical processors for focus crystals? Yes, because it is the same type of stuff. You can't trade your chemical processors for raw materials like polonium nor for data. But chemical processors and focus crystals both belong to the category of "random machine parts" You'll probably need a lot of chemical processors though, I can't remember off-hand if they're of comparable grades of rareness. It might make more sense to collect some other, easier to get rare materials before starting to trade.
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Oct 23, 2019 06:12
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Ice Fist posted:I asked this same question in Discord and the answer I was given was "if you play solo and just mine/trade/shoot NPCs then you probably wouldn't know anything is amiss" but got the distinct feeling that the answer giver had a thousand yard stare while in the fetal position under his desk rock slowly back and forth when it came to Frontier bugs. I thought of one more bug, it wasnt updating the meter for some engineer unlock task. Like whatever i was doing, it counted, but the meter didnt fill up visibly until i relogged.
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Oct 23, 2019 06:20
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There’s really embarrassing poo poo in this game like multicrew that is literally nonfunctional in ways that are not something you can workaround, QOL and design decisions aside. Two buddies of mine got VR around the same time and I had had it. I spent a bunch of time kitting out a thargoid scout hunter with fighters for them and the whole nine yards. Despite literal hours of loving with multicrew, we never got into more than a single fight. Disconnects were par for the course, and I know all three of us have decent rigs and consistent, high speed internet connections. It wasn’t like it was sporadic or unstable, it refused to work for anything more than literal seconds if it connected at all. I forget what else dropped with the multicrew patch but considering that was toted as a huge feature and is now essentially totally broken - not buggy, but broken - is crazy to me. I’m willing to put up with so much poo poo to get cool VR space ships and I even hate a lot of their designs when they’re working as intended, but god drat fix what’s in there so I can fly space ships with my buddies. All that said: being someone tangential to software dev and release planning, I am wholly on board with this being a panic button w/r/t fleet carriers not being ready and sucking rear end whether gameplay or bug wise.
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Oct 23, 2019 07:22
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I was thinking about working toward a Beluga Liner, loading it with wealthy tourists, and
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Oct 23, 2019 07:32
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One of the ways Frontier has managed to get away with game-breaking bugs that persist for so long is that the game is wide and often played effectively single-player - during which time maybe you'll encounter a UI freeze, or the wrong names being put on discoveries etc. the odd transaction server error - i.e. annoying stuff but not necessarily something that'll stop you making progress. A lot of the worst clangers are found in corners that newer, more casual or solo players will rarely touch. AX combat (multiple bugs, no pun), CZ wings (pretty much anything involving a wing you can roll some dice to see if it'll break or not), Background Simulation mechanics (oh so many issues, oh god), Powerplay (lol), anything involving multicrew, superpower allegiance (stations flipping to Fed/Imp alignment for example and surprise-murdering people according to their Rep), engineer special effects being broke to gently caress, installation emergent encounters, missions you can't complete, reticle bugs with split weaponsets, anything involving capital ships, fighter order spam breaking netcode, non-stationary POIs around planets, damage stacking in populated instances (being calculated multiple times by different players and applied all at once), chat bugs, audio bugs... the list goes on. This shouldn't be interpreted as a criticism of playing the game solo, or of just plugging away at vopal mining by any means... but arguably the long-term health of the game depends in no small part on the end-game mechanics and player group stuff actually functioning. That's where the longevity is found for many people. On paper, I think they're making the right decision delaying carriers and fixing bugs... but that isn't something they've historically been great at. Also a lot of the bugs seem bound up with the netcode, as such I'm not sure how well they'll really be able to fix it without gutting the whole thing. The damage stacking problem, for instance, keeps getting marked as "fixed" despite really, really not being fixed. On top of that, it is plausible they just are really behind with the carriers and the community 'petition' was a convenient way out for them. Oh well, we'll see.
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Oct 23, 2019 09:57
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it still makes me salty that it's just fighters and turrets. why do some ships even have a copilot chair if you cant have a copilot? why does the srv have a turret if your buddy cant control it?
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Oct 23, 2019 09:58
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Larry Parrish posted:it still makes me salty that it's just fighters and turrets. why do some ships even have a copilot chair if you cant have a copilot? why does the srv have a turret if your buddy cant control it? It would distract from mining asteroids for 39 hours or jumping and scooping fuel 1245 times in a row
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Oct 23, 2019 10:00
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Is the dot still there
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Oct 23, 2019 10:08
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Tommy the Newt posted:
Yeah I think it's the right decision to focus on fixing bugs. But then I was never really bothered about carriers, although the switch from squadron to personal carriers piqued my interest. My worry is what's the real dependencies between the current version of the game, which they are about to spend 6 months bug fixing *and* then add Fleet Carriers to, and the 2020 "new era" update which is then supposed to come less than 6 months after that? Not only that, it's supposed to be revealed & demo'd in the summer, after fleet carriers. In which case, surely it can't be being built on the current version? My hope was perhaps 2020 was a much larger rewrite of the code than just adding new features. Does the 2020 code being developed have the same instancing & bug problems as live? I wonder.
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Oct 23, 2019 11:08
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ronmcd posted:Yeah I think it's the right decision to focus on fixing bugs. But then I was never really bothered about carriers, although the switch from squadron to personal carriers piqued my interest. My worry is what's the real dependencies between the current version of the game, which they are about to spend 6 months bug fixing *and* then add Fleet Carriers to, and the 2020 "new era" update which is then supposed to come less than 6 months after that? Not only that, it's supposed to be revealed & demo'd in the summer, after fleet carriers. In which case, surely it can't be being built on the current version? I still kinda suspect them with preparing the Carriers for the (leaked) FPS gameplay. Like, they probably added it already in simple way, it's logical, but now they have excuse to work on it more and polish it, the players basically played into their cards. "The players want us to fix bugs, so let's have people working on that, while FPS team can work on their task and some people can polish carriers a bit more with some extra assets and testing".
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Oct 23, 2019 12:31
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:I still kinda suspect them with preparing the Carriers for the (leaked) FPS gameplay. Like, they probably added it already in simple way, it's logical, but now they have excuse to work on it more and polish it, the players basically played into their cards. "The players want us to fix bugs, so let's have people working on that, while FPS team can work on their task and some people can polish carriers a bit more with some extra assets and testing". I'm curious as to what Fdev have done with previous patches that have led you to suspect their late delivery of this one is down to perfectionism, rather than incompetence. Anything's possible though!
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Oct 23, 2019 12:44
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Tommy the Newt posted:I'm curious as to what Fdev have done with previous patches that have led you to suspect their late delivery of this one is down to perfectionism, rather than incompetence. Anything's possible though! Oh, I am not saying anything about the result, I am pretty sure that there will be lots of bugs and stuff. But I believe even the initial delay was caused more by "we have a new asset that players can walk around while we work on walking around, let's do it together, so we don't have to revisit carriers right after they are implemented". It's not really perfectionism, but development logic. (Also I don't really like to bother much with recent patches evaluation, since I believe they are being worked on by skeleton crew, I estimate some twenty or so people, while the rest works on 2020 content)
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Oct 23, 2019 12:56
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ronmcd posted:My hope was perhaps 2020 was a much larger rewrite of the code than just adding new features. Yeah I've been nursing that hope too. Technical debt is probably off the charts, and the netcode is the elephant in the room of any Elite-as-multiplayer discussion. No matter how cool a feature sounds you know it will be unstable at best with friends. That's why I wasn't surprised when they did the whole "Fleet Carriers are a private thing now", which pissed off all the squad leaders... but if you can't get two players in a single ship without problems, I dunno how they were expecting to do fleet ops with carriers.
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Oct 23, 2019 12:59
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I would much rather my cousin be able to connect to me reliably and fly my ship while I fly the fighter, or even just co-pilot regardless of the ship, than have some giant money sink hangar that probably won't be as useful as it's even intended
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Oct 23, 2019 13:21
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Tommy the Newt posted:I'm curious as to what Fdev have done with previous patches that have led you to suspect their late delivery of this one is down to perfectionism, rather than incompetence. Anything's possible though!
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Oct 23, 2019 13:54
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Dwesa posted:Yeah, pretty much every update I remember was delayed and I play this game on and off since its launch. Elite release: expected March 2014, released December 2014 No estimates were done - AFAIK - about further releases for seasons 1 and 2 (base and Horizons), but I'll try to follow "4 months per release" (so 3 releases a year) schedule. Remember, for these no dates were announced, so technically they were never late (at least I couldn't find any dates, feel free to fill them in if you know about some): 1.1: February 2015, on time 1.2: March 2015, on time 1.3: June 2015, on time 1.4: October 2015, on time 2.0: December 2015, on time 2.1: May 2016, "delayed" a month 2.2: October 2016, "delayed" a month 2.3: April 2017, "delayed" a month 2.4: September 2017, "delayed" a month Beyond had a roadmap:  3.0: Q1 (February), on time, full 3.1: Q2 (June), on time, full 3.2: Q3 (August), on time, full 3.3: Q4 (December), on time, missing ice worlds and carriers Post Beyond, the plans were split between 2020 update and smaller updates. these again had no given date, though we can again use the 4 months periods: 4.0: April 2019, on time 4.1: September 2019, a month late 4.2: December 2019, ??? In conclusion - so far, FDev's time management is really solid to me, they mostly hit their cycle and if it slips, then just barely (two to three weeks tops). Especially if you compare it to stuff like Valve time or Star Citizen's still not completely released 3.0 roadmap. There's an issue with ice planets and carriers, but I'll reserve my judgment on those to when they are released, tbh.
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Oct 23, 2019 14:30
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Y'all are forgetting the huge bug baked into the very fabric of the galaxy, lol: the plus-shaped void of neutron stars in all directions outward from the bubble.
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Oct 23, 2019 15:12
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:In conclusion - so far, FDev's time management is really solid to me, they mostly hit their cycle and if it slips, then just barely (two to three weeks tops). Especially if you compare it to stuff like Valve time or Star Citizen's still not completely released 3.0 roadmap. There's an issue with ice planets and carriers, but I'll reserve my judgment on those to when they are released, tbh. PS: I wouldn't compare FD to Valve or Star Citizen, those are some extreme outliers.
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Oct 23, 2019 15:15
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Dwesa posted:Thanks for correcting me, I guess my memory is getting worse, because I could swear there were more delays and they were longer. I agree about the outliers, but to be honest, I am a bit out of the loop for the "normal" release stuff. I guess they'd be similar to Wargaming, Blizzard, CCP or such - mostly on time, sometimes slip a bit or a feature gets cut before release. That should roughly fit, I guess?
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Oct 23, 2019 15:35
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Sucks that FCs are going to be delayed, but whatever. I hope they just refactor the entire netcode. Whatever garbage they cooked up was doomed from the start. It's exactly like Tommy said: I was playing solo for several weeks with like zero issues whatsoever. I was having a great time actually. Last week I did some multiplayer poo poo and it's still a total poo poo-show. CZs not spawning enemies. Capships unkillable because one of the heat thingies is stuck at -99% health somehow. Multicrew still not working. As soon as I dipped my toes back into multiplayer it went to poo poo.
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Oct 23, 2019 21:19
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