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Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

Covok posted:

Kamala's cycle of running a Star Wars game (but never actually doing it.)
  • watch a star wars movie
  • get HYPED
  • think up a bunch of hypothetical campaign ideas
  • can't decide on an era
  • invent some bullshit AU or pull in crap from the EU
  • look at FFG SW
  • Homebrew a ton of poo poo
  • get bored
  • start over from step 1 once
  • homebrew
  • desperately avoid admitting FFG SW is too rules heavy for my style
  • desperately avoid admitting I wasted money buying all FFG books
  • flirt with the idea of running SAGAs
  • laugh
  • search for good pbta/fate hacks
  • get bored
  • restart in 6 months


Legacy Primer: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dD1eWGyrkzsO74SUF9FgGjq29EZ3nDOd/view?usp=drivesdk

AU: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1skNsl7F9gAvxKUCJFhaeg8zXkrHiK6BfYdXbAotZKx0/edit?usp=drivesdk

*google history of searching for pbta and fate hacks*

Hmm, I think I'm on step 14 right now.

I don't know how you did it but please stop reading my mind kthx

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grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

Serf posted:

i keep seeing people talking about how affinity is supposed to be better than indesign, any thoughts on that one?

Haven't used it since I've been out of the full-time design racket for years, but it looks at least comparable to InDesign and doesn't have a subscription payment plan, so that's already a big mark in the plus column.

I'm definitely going to check out their suite, though, so thanks for mentioning it.

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin
My friend made a little horror/comedy game about working in customer service, here’s the synopsis :


Customer Service is hell. Everyone who has worked in the sector for more than a few shifts knows. Customers can be real monsters, the equipment you use is so temperamental as to be cursed, and sometimes it’s all you can do to just survive the shift. Graveyard Shift is a Comedy Horror RPG that takes these statements in a very literal direction. You and two to four friends will take on the roles of the employees and maybe a few of the nicer regulars at a small 24 hour breakfast restaurant during the 10pm to 6am shift. Over the course of the shift, strange, horrific things start to happen until suddenly all hell breaks loose and a truly supernatural threat rears it’s head. When the waffle iron starts flying around trying to kill people, those stoners turn out to be zombies, and an unspeakable thing from beyond the stars begins crawling out of the toilet, it’s your problem; after all, you might get fired for this!

https://ardentgamer.itch.io/graveyard-shift

It would be cool if some people checked it out!

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

thetoughestbean posted:

My friend made a little horror/comedy game about working in customer service, here’s the synopsis :


Customer Service is hell. Everyone who has worked in the sector for more than a few shifts knows. Customers can be real monsters, the equipment you use is so temperamental as to be cursed, and sometimes it’s all you can do to just survive the shift. Graveyard Shift is a Comedy Horror RPG that takes these statements in a very literal direction. You and two to four friends will take on the roles of the employees and maybe a few of the nicer regulars at a small 24 hour breakfast restaurant during the 10pm to 6am shift. Over the course of the shift, strange, horrific things start to happen until suddenly all hell breaks loose and a truly supernatural threat rears it’s head. When the waffle iron starts flying around trying to kill people, those stoners turn out to be zombies, and an unspeakable thing from beyond the stars begins crawling out of the toilet, it’s your problem; after all, you might get fired for this!

https://ardentgamer.itch.io/graveyard-shift

It would be cool if some people checked it out!

Downloaded, sounds like exactly what I need right now

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.

thetoughestbean posted:

Things don’t have to be mechanically useful to have value to a game!
[AND]
Role playing will happen regardless of if the game has in depth rules for role playing.
If that were the case, people would be role-playing in the game already, right? Or does it take someone saying, "hey, this Pokemon CCG you're playing is an RPG, so, I dunno, start thinking 'in character' when you play your cards."

Wait, are you one of those people who are like, "Well a good GM can make any system good, so system doesn't matter"?

Because system matters. It is how the game incentivizes things that fit the theme and disincentivizes things that don't. It is how you distinguish one kind of gaming experience from another. It's why the following statement...

thetoughestbean posted:

For goodness’s, sake, there are numerous games that are mostly about combat. I wouldn’t tell somebody who wants to make a mecha game to not bother because loving Armored Core exists, and I wouldn’t tell people to not bother playing a dungeon crawler because Roguelikes exist.
...is loving ridiculous, because of course there is design space for other mecha games or dungeon crawlers. But if you ARE going to make a mecha game, you might wanna, I dunno, make it different than Armored Core. Because if it has the same kinds of underlying actions and mechanics as Armored Core and brings nothing new or mechanically interesting to the table, what would cause anyone to want to buy it or play it? An argument can be made for a compelling setting that inspires interesting conflicts, but if the rules don't support interaction with that setting or participating in those conflicts then it's not bringing anything to the table. Like, I could make an Armored Core setting that also has wizards and faeries, but if I don't have any structural way for wizards or faeries to interact with the giant robots, what is that really buying me? At that point is it anything more than a plot maguffin?

thetoughestbean posted:

You keep conflating your personal preferences as the only way to view games and it’s impossible to talk to you
No, I don't but apparently I am having a hard time getting my point across.

So let's take a step back - what is a TTRPG to you? What does a player have to do at the table to be involved in "role-play?" Is having a customizable "character" avatar enough even if those customizations have no effect on the game? What level of interaction with other players' avatars or with the setting is required to meet your definition of role-play? How important is narrative? How important is narrative control? How much interaction between your character's back-story/motivations and the setting is required for it to count as role-playing?

I guess I don't understand why you're so vexed by someone saying, "hey, these are things you should maybe think about when making an RPG."

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin
Look, Ilor, I’m done. It’s not worth it. I should have put my energy into getting people to check out what my friend made, instead

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Hm, I want to hear more about Affinity from people who used it!

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.

thetoughestbean posted:

https://ardentgamer.itch.io/graveyard-shift

It would be cool if some people checked it out!
This is an awesome concept! Checking it out now!

thetoughestbean posted:

Look, Ilor, I’m done. It’s not worth it. I should have put my energy into getting people to check out what my friend made, instead
No worries, friend. And mission accomplished, because your friend's thing is cool.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

thetoughestbean posted:

Things don’t have to be mechanically useful to have value to a game!

When I make a character idea or backstory I don’t make it so I’ll get a bonus here or there, I make it so I have a character that I find compelling! Role playing will happen regardless of if the game has in depth rules for role playing.
The purpose of a roleplaying system is to help adjudicate pretending to be an elf. As a consequence of this, how it adjudicates pretending to be an elf will impact your story of being an elf.

A bandit is getting away, and if he gets away then something that you, the player, do not wish to occur will happen. You can throw a dagger at him, which you know has a roughly 80% chance of hitting him and knocking off his last few HP, or you can appeal to his better nature.
If there's only a 20% chance of appealing to his better nature how would this impact your decision? How would this impact the story?
If there's an 80% chance of appealing to better nature how would this impact your decision? How would this impact the story?
If there's no system in place for this, could be 20, could be 80, could be completely impossible and you won't know until you try, how would this impact your decision? How would this impact the story?

Same questions but now your character is called Barion the Silver Tongued.
Same questions but now your character is called Gornak the Destroyer and you only have a 20% chance to hit with the dagger.

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin

Ilor posted:

This is an awesome concept! Checking it out now!

No worries, friend. And mission accomplished, because your friend's thing is cool.

Thanks for checking it out!

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Holy poo poo, are you guys still talking about Pokemon?

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!
What was that game where they decided to just port over all the videogame mechanics including the 20 step calculations that go into dealing damage? You needed a graphing calculator to play it.

I once played a really lovely Pokemon RPG. I did not engage with the system, but I had a ton of fun being a hippy: "Pokemon are people man, you can't own people." - "Why fight when you can hug?" - "John Albert Smith (my best friend who is a sheep) is the spine of the world!"

I also once ran an Avatar-Fate game. 30 seconds into the game the firebender character burned someone's face off and it smelled like roast pig. Pokemon is cock fighting and when you have genuine control over your character the only ethical course of action is to burn it all down.

Mr. Prokosch fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Oct 23, 2019

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

Year 3 of the Great Pokemon RPG War nears is conclusion and still neither side seems amenable to peace treaty

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
The Arceus-Linoone region belongs to Kalos

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012
I come to offer my assistance against the hated OSRites

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Man, the switch port of Digimon Cyber Sleuth is soooo easy to break. The in-game clock moves forward as long as the program is running on the console. My digimon get all the experience from the digifarm even when the console is technically off. I'm on chapter 3 and have like 10 ultimate level digimon at max level. I'll probably have a couple of optimized Mega level beefy mother fuckers by tomorrow. This poo poo actually rewards me playing in bursts in-between life responsibilities.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Ilor posted:

No disagreement. The issue is how that is supported in the game mechanically. Because what you're talking about could just as easily be accomplished by two people sitting down over a card game and just saying, "This battle represents our fight to impress sempai enough to get him to reveal <Pokémon secret> to us." There's nothing stopping you from adding narrative to your card-game - except nobody actually does it because there is no mechanical framework to hang it on. Someone clever could set up a Pokémon tournament event that had all sorts of fun side-quests and meta-plot going on to tell a fun story - that would be pretty rad, actually - but that would be 100% on the TO to put that together and manage it.

Determining what your game is about helps you determine what things you need mechanics for. Example: can you ever sneak past Pokémon, or must you always fight them? Can you talk to them or befriend them? What does that look like in the game, and how does it work mechanically? What is it that the PCs are actually going to do in the game, and what mechanics will be used to resolve the resulting conflicts? That's what I mean by determining what your game is about.

Here's maybe a more concrete example: you know Warhammer 40K, right? The stuff you do in the various 40K TTRPGs is by its very nature different from playing 40K. Rogue Trader has mechanics for things that 40K has absolutely no concern for and vice versa. You can absolutely "forge a narrative" when playing 40K (and plenty of people do), but nobody confuses the NOVA Narrative (for example) for a TTRPG even though both are designed to tell an ongoing story.

So the original question of "why hasn't anyone come out with a good Pokémon TTPRG?" can probably best be answered by saying, "because they are too busy trying to reinvent Pokémon itself, only without a computer to track all the numbers" rather than going back to the drawing board and designing it from the ground up as an actual TTRPG.

A friend of mine one night got drunk while playing MTG and managed to string a story together out of the adventures of his commander based on what cards he played and actions he took. It was a time.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Covok posted:

Man, the switch port of Digimon Cyber Sleuth is soooo easy to break. The in-game clock moves forward as long as the program is running on the console. My digimon get all the experience from the digifarm even when the console is technically off. I'm on chapter 3 and have like 10 ultimate level digimon at max level. I'll probably have a couple of optimized Mega level beefy mother fuckers by tomorrow. This poo poo actually rewards me playing in bursts in-between life responsibilities.

drat the vita didn't had this poo poo so I had to do normal grinding with 2 platinumsukamons on the team

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin

Covok posted:

Man, the switch port of Digimon Cyber Sleuth is soooo easy to break. The in-game clock moves forward as long as the program is running on the console. My digimon get all the experience from the digifarm even when the console is technically off. I'm on chapter 3 and have like 10 ultimate level digimon at max level. I'll probably have a couple of optimized Mega level beefy mother fuckers by tomorrow. This poo poo actually rewards me playing in bursts in-between life responsibilities.

I also had this happen but I’m a loser who doesn’t like using exploits so I put the three Ultimates I got from leaving it on overnight into the bank until I could get my other guys caught up

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

Covok posted:

Man, the switch port of Digimon Cyber Sleuth is soooo easy to break. The in-game clock moves forward as long as the program is running on the console. My digimon get all the experience from the digifarm even when the console is technically off. I'm on chapter 3 and have like 10 ultimate level digimon at max level. I'll probably have a couple of optimized Mega level beefy mother fuckers by tomorrow. This poo poo actually rewards me playing in bursts in-between life responsibilities.

poo poo, grinding was my biggest beef with cyber sleuth. guess i'll give it another chance months from now when i'm done with dq11

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Sounds like a dodged a bullet waiting for the switch port. Literally, I turned on my switch today and there was like 4 notifications:

"Growlmon is at max level.

Togemon is at max level.

Greymon is at max level.

Garurumon is at max level."

When I went to save the game claimed I've been playing for over 200 hours.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

Covok posted:

Sounds like a dodged a bullet waiting for the switch port. Literally, I turned on my switch today and there was like 4 notifications:

"Growlmon is at max level.

Togemon is at max level.

Greymon is at max level.

Garurumon is at max level."

When I went to save the game claimed I've been playing for over 200 hours.

that last bit makes me concerned this is a bug, not a feature

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Brother Entropy posted:

that last bit makes me concerned this is a bug, not a feature

Well, it was like 105 hours and I've kind of been exploiting this feature when I discovered it. Like, I put all my digimon in the farm, only put those lovely NX Royal Knight Digimon you get with the game because they come automatically with complete edition, and have been turning the switch off and leaving it docked with the game still running sort of. Like, I just hit the off button while the game is running and leave it there for a long time. I intentionally plan it so I'm not in a menu and stuff. It's made growing my digimon easy.

I mean, if I'm going to stop playing for the night, might as well get something from it.

OpenlyEvilJello
Dec 28, 2009

fool_of_sound posted:

I come to offer my assistance against the hated OSRites

Is that how you run Unix?

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

mllaneza posted:

Maps are cool. Dungeon maps are hella cool.

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.
Yeah this argument is nuts. What is the game about? It's about fuckin fighting with pokemon! And about catching pokemon! You go around the land solving problems by fighting with pokemon. That's it! Hey, there's a rampaging pokemon. How can this problem be solved? Hey, team rocket is at it again, how can this problem be solved? These dudes are mistreating pokemon, how can this problem be solved? By fighting them with pokemon! You hear about a rare new pokemon. You hear about a super powerful pokemon. You hear about an invisible pokemon. Go catch them!

No you don't need mechanics for the other poo poo. Oh your character is from Kanto? That's cool, are you friends with Brock? You don't need a +2 to whatever because of your Kanto heritage. You barely need to represent the character at all because you are putting all the focus where it belongs - on the pokemon. That's what being a focused game is all about! Maybe some characters know more about pokemon while others are better at bonding with them and others are better at catching them - that's stuff that is actually relevant. It's like you are insisting that the game has to be about something other than what it's obviously about and everyone is getting very confused.

Why play it instead of the video games or the card game? Because I like roleplaying with my friends. Because I want to make up my own dumb pokemon story and characters, and even my own dumb pokemon. Because I've already played the video games to death. Because neither I nor my friends feel like pouring money into a CCG.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
If I could make video game content as easily and seamlessly as I make TRPG content I probably would.

Vanishingly few games allow you to do this and they're usually either ancient or incredibly janky fan products built on top of proprietary software, or both.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
Computer gaming in general is a massive series of barriers to entry for both play and creation. You have to worry if your computer can run the game, or keep up with console releases. You need a tremendous amount of technical knowledge to make games from scratch, or accept limitations on what you can do that you would not have to accept in a TRPG if you use someone else's game as a content medium.

Also I'm not gonna lie, while I gave up piracy years ago for career-related reasons, I don't care if my players are sharing PDFs, and in fact I actively benefit from it. It makes recruitment easier and there's no way I would ever be able to run as many different systems if I insisted that everyone buy in sight-unseen on everything that strikes my fancy -- even if they wanted to a lot of my peer group just can't afford to.

Meanwhile, video games are both more expensive, harder to pirate, and also harder to share in ways that are legal or in murky grey areas.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Arivia posted:

Mapping makes sense when the entire game is the dungeon and it’s frequently changing around you to create new play opportunities. It doesn’t make any sense for one-use dungeons.

One of the main play modes for early D&D was that the Gm would come up with a big dungeon and the players would make repeated runs into it. "Most of us have leveled up, let's go after the hippogriffs for real" and that sort of thing. Through 1e AD&D you'd have hints at things to do outside of the dungeon, but "dungeon" was right there in the name, so we did a lot of dungeon crawls. Your first foray into a new level was an event.

Flavivirus
Dec 14, 2011

The next stage of evolution.

Rand Brittain posted:

Hm, I want to hear more about Affinity from people who used it!

It’s pretty great! Some missing features from InDesign - no automatic GREP character formatting, pdf bookmark creation from ToC, ePub export, or a few other niggling things - but what is there is often flat better than in InDesign and it’s incredible how fast it is in comparison.

Plus if you pick up Photo and Designer you can shift into full-featured photo/vector editing in the same window with the click of a button, which is surprisingly handy.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
Oh, yeah, I thought of another thing -- the design space of "cooperative but tactical and challenging RPG" in computer games is dominated by MMOs, which by and large are disgusting, predatory timesinks that constantly compromise good gameplay in order to keep players minimally but constantly engaged.

TRPG design has its own problems but nothing remotely as insidious or deliberately hostile to the player.

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

Flavivirus posted:

pdf bookmark creation from ToC

That's a pretty big one, honestly. What about automatic indexing?

Flavivirus
Dec 14, 2011

The next stage of evolution.

grassy gnoll posted:

That's a pretty big one, honestly. What about automatic indexing?

It has that, at least! I really hope they add the PDF bookmark creation soon though - going through output PDFs in Adobe Acrobat and adding all the bookmarks in manually is a real chore.

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

If I could make video game content as easily and seamlessly as I make TRPG content I probably would.

Vanishingly few games allow you to do this and they're usually either ancient or incredibly janky fan products built on top of proprietary software, or both.

It’s moved over more to actual indie game creation. Content modding usually runs into the Space Funeral problem where your content is next to stuff professionals worked on for years and looks shoddy as hell. At least if I run a homebrew adventure compared to Tyranny Of Dragons my descriptions don’t automatically get worse.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I need to decide how sarcastic to be to the people in DTRPG comments telling me my books are too expensive.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Rand Brittain posted:

I need to decide how sarcastic to be to the people in DTRPG comments telling me my books are too expensive.

gently caress 'em

my distrust of commercial pressures on art cuts both ways. if i encourage creators to ignore the demands of mainstream audiences re: design, i can hardly tell them that they have to cater to their whims in terms of price point. be the $120 grog game you were born to be if it suits you.

i also probably won't play it but my entire posting ethos is "your game doesn't have to be for everyone and in fact i would prefer that it weren't"

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Rand Brittain posted:

I need to decide how sarcastic to be to the people in DTRPG comments telling me my books are too expensive.

How much are your books? I'm not familiar with your work. Knowing the internet I assume cheap and they're bitching about dollars?

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Len posted:

How much are your books? I'm not familiar with your work. Knowing the internet I assume cheap and they're bitching about dollars?

I make a point of not undercharging for my work, so I charge $10 for my smaller PDFs (about 10-14 pages) and $12 for the larger ones (15-25 pages).

They're also extremely nice, so there's that. I haven't done original art since the first batch since the money just isn't there for it, but I flatter myself that the layout looks much nicer than what's in the official books.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Positioning can matter. At the grocery store, you probably don't see the high-end superior chocolate bars with 85% cacao made by Lindor or whoever, sold right next to a snickers. I wonder if the RPG market would benefit from a storefront for RPG products that are of a higher quality, and with a higher price tag to go with it. Your curated store where someone is actively choosing which products are good enough to be listed there, rather than just accepting all comers and selling for whatever MSRP the producer wants, however low.

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UnCO3
Feb 11, 2010

Ye gods!

College Slice
My 1-page found-footage weird horror game/world-building tool The Cromlech Archives is on sale until the 4th of November, and I just uplaoded a transcript of a discord game (just the in-game text) here if you want to see what the game can create! It's 50% off, or $1.

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