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Redczar posted:Are we all such cynics that we don’t believe the governments explanation of this? Este igual lo encontré chistoso: 
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Oct 22, 2019 13:38
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Temaukel posted:Este igual lo encontré chistoso: Lol that's obviously fake, everyone knows they've got their own supply
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Oct 22, 2019 13:46
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Pochoclo posted:everyone knows they've got their own supply 
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Oct 22, 2019 14:42
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Is there a good summary on what's happening in Chile?
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Oct 22, 2019 15:16
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https://twitter.com/cattycouth/status/1186488935368790018
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Oct 22, 2019 17:37
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mila kunis posted:Is there a good summary on what's happening in Chile? This article is a pretty good overview in English of the long-term background and more short-term measures taken How Economic Concentration and Crony Capitalism Led to the Chaos in Chile Redczar fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 22, 2019 |
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Oct 22, 2019 20:22
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El Chingon posted:The governor doesn't have control of the guardia nacional or army forces, which you can clearly see on videos taken by people, and the federal government owned up to the operation. Thanks for the heads-up. It's fun to speculate, but in things like this where new details come up, it can be easy to miss stuff. I still don't think it's an AMLO personal gently caress-up, if only because his style so far of governing has been "slow and steady" instead of the old style of "look at this impressive poo poo we did that is just a drop in the bucket!". I do believe that not trying to press further on keeping the Chapo's son was the right call, because it's easy to say that you should risk urban warfare in a city where people can't take cover.
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Oct 22, 2019 22:35
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Situation in Bolivia seems to be escalating https://twitter.com/noticiasmiled/status/1186997650446573570 https://twitter.com/edisonburbanoCM/status/1186997851068469249
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Oct 23, 2019 14:28
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The government was (almost certainly) torturing people in the closed subway station of Baquedano. National Institute of Human Rights Investigates Claims of Torture in Baquedano (Spanish) Coincidentally, after the suspicion became news, the cops went to “clean the rubble to help open the station” https://twitter.com/carabdechile/status/1186894275495321601?s=21
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Oct 23, 2019 16:38
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here's hoping the bolivian right wing coup attempt eats poo poo even harder than the one in venezuela
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Oct 23, 2019 17:51
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18 Muertos Y Las Protestas No Ceden
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Oct 23, 2019 17:56
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The defense minister of Chile apparently smirked when an opposition congresswomen started showing pics of dead protestors 
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Oct 23, 2019 20:42
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Are the measures recently announced out by the government (pensions, etc) having any effect on the protests?
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Oct 23, 2019 20:56
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RottenK posted:here's hoping the bolivian right wing coup attempt eats poo poo even harder than the one in venezuela Oh poo poo, is Maduro gone?!
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Oct 23, 2019 21:37
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man I kinda like Morales but on a cursory look the numbers do seem like they might be hinky is there, like, a recount and auditing protocol or something
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Oct 23, 2019 22:30
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GreyjoyBastard posted:man I kinda like Morales but on a cursory look the numbers do seem like they might be hinky Given the protestors against morales are going around and burning ballot boxes he absolutely legitimately won. It’s like the VZ opposition not wanting election observers; no one does that poo poo if they think they won.
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Oct 24, 2019 00:30
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Freezer posted:Are the measures recently announced out by the government (pensions, etc) having any effect on the protests? Yes: they are getting larger, lol.
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Oct 24, 2019 00:37
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uninterrupted posted:Given the protestors against morales are going around and burning ballot boxes he absolutely legitimately won. the situations are not equivalent but good point it doesn't look great for the Bolivian protesters
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Oct 24, 2019 00:44
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Oct 24, 2019 00:49
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Yeah, burning the ballot boxes is  I don't like the idea of Morales going for a fourth term because someone staying in power for that long is never healthy for a democracy, but the behavior of the opposition is just baffling.
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Oct 24, 2019 01:05
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Azran posted:Yeah, burning the ballot boxes is its not baffling if you remember that they want a right wing coup
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Oct 24, 2019 01:12
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Morales is burning ballot boxes?
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Oct 24, 2019 01:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:Morales is burning ballot boxes? The right wingers are
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Oct 24, 2019 01:38
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The issue in Bolivia isn't whether Morales won, he probably did and did receive more votes than the other guy, who by the way is from a party called something like the "leftist revolutionary front" (though names can remain and issues change, and the party is running as part of an overall "centrist" opposition coalition). The issue is that in addition to the controversy leading up to him seeking a fourth term in general, Bolivia seems to require that in a presidential election like this you go to a second round between the two most popular choices unless one of them won by more than 10%. There were still votes left to be counted and Morales was leading by about 7-8 points, which is good but not enough to not have the second round of voting. Then Morales proclaims victory and says he is sure that the remaining uncounted votes will put him more than 10 points ahead, then instead of slowly trickling in the remaining uncounted votes remained unannonced for a couple of days until they were all added at once and put Morales 10+ points up. And that poo poo is mighty loving suspicious. As for why they are burning the ballot boxes, I couldn't say, but I guess it's just kind of irrational anger targetting electoral centers because that is what people are angry at. e: I don't know where people are getting the right-wing coup narrative from, because the issue seems to be really loving clear in that what you have are demonstrations triggered by what appears to be electoral fraud (or if it wasn't then it was just idiocy and nervousness over the possible results which results in the counts of the last votes being held back, which then results in it all looking suspiciously like some kind of tampering has been done or at the very least considered) to avoid a second round of elections in what was a much closer election than Morales probably would have liked. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 01:51
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Also, please remember that Morales couldn't run for president again according to Bolivia's constitution, so he called a referendum, which he lost, so he sued and Bolivia's supreme Court sentenced that running for president is a basic human right and he cannot be impeded by silly things like the constitution.
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Oct 24, 2019 02:02
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zocio posted:Also, please remember that Morales couldn't run for president again according to Bolivia's constitution, so he called a referendum, which he lost, so he sued and Bolivia's supreme Court sentenced that running for president is a basic human right and he cannot be impeded by silly things like the constitution. Seriously. I dunno how you can look at this and be like "hmm, this Morales guy seems alright."
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Oct 24, 2019 03:31
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Power corrupts after about 10-12 years. Morales might have been good one time, now it's time for him to go. There's no way he hasn't become poo poo by now according to political law.
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Oct 24, 2019 04:04
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The left is often genuinely unfairly maligned and persecuted, but I feel like it leads to outside observers to reflexively defend “leftist” leaders like Maduro and (arguably) Morales despite them being involved in some very corrupt practices. I get it, the fash has smeared leftists before so they’re clearly doing it again, right?
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Oct 24, 2019 04:09
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Seriously. I dunno how you can look at this and be like "hmm, this Morales guy seems alright." Maybe because he's a president who has presided over unprecedented poverty reduction, running against a guy who, as president and vice president, presided over violent repression of protests that led to 60 deaths, and who also in his time ignored referendum results, because the referendum in question called for the nationalization of hydrocarbons?
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Oct 24, 2019 04:13
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joepinetree posted:Maybe because he's a president who has presided over unprecedented poverty reduction, running against a guy who, as president and vice president, presided over violent repression of protests that led to 60 deaths, and who also in his time ignored referendum results, because the referendum in question called for the nationalization of hydrocarbons? Nah man, gotta let the privatizing corporate stooge have a turn even if they lack the votes, or the liberals will be even more horny for a coup than usual. Besides, most bolivians are darker skinned than Chileans so pics of their dead unionists on the streets fade from memory, like, instantly.
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Oct 24, 2019 04:30
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joepinetree posted:Maybe because he's a president who has presided over unprecedented poverty reduction, running against a guy who, as president and vice president, presided over violent repression of protests that led to 60 deaths, and who also in his time ignored referendum results, because the referendum in question called for the nationalization of hydrocarbons? Ah fair enough. He should be dictator for life then
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Oct 24, 2019 04:35
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To be fair to Morales...I mean look at what happened to Correa when he left.
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Oct 24, 2019 04:44
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Ah fair enough. He should be dictator for life then There may be questions over whether he won in the first round or not, but there's no question that the courts had ok'd him running, that he was ahead, and its a question that will never be resolved because the opposition has started burning ballot boxes. The idea that this is "dictator for life" is laughable. I hope that DSA tag is ironic.
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Oct 24, 2019 04:48
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zocio posted:Also, please remember that Morales couldn't run for president again according to Bolivia's constitution, so he called a referendum, which he lost, so he sued and Bolivia's supreme Court sentenced that running for president is a basic human right and he cannot be impeded by silly things like the constitution. this does not sound entirely ideal
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Oct 24, 2019 04:50
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I mean, the whole first round thing is sus as gently caress and it's kinda Maduro-esque. You can acknowledge that without thinking the opposition are the good guys.
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Oct 24, 2019 04:51
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joepinetree posted:There may be questions over whether he won in the first round or not, but there's no question that the courts had ok'd him running, that he was ahead, and its a question that will never be resolved because the opposition has started burning ballot boxes. The idea that this is "dictator for life" is laughable. I hope that DSA tag is ironic. people can disagree with you while still being leftists, bub they can even be sarcastic or ironical about it 
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Oct 24, 2019 04:59
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GreyjoyBastard posted:people can disagree with you while still being leftists, bub They can also be dumb as hell, which certainly qualifies in this case. This is not Morales trying to turn a 31-53 defeat into a win by blaming the evil yankees. Bitching about his candidacy stopped being relevant months ago. It passed, rules were set, game on. But eh, guess we just have to give up and let the neoliberals take over and undo all the work and likely send us to jail or the grave, not because they WON, because they didn't, but because they are _upset_.
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Oct 24, 2019 05:08
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Dias posted:I mean, the whole first round thing is sus as gently caress and it's kinda Maduro-esque. You can acknowledge that without thinking the opposition are the good guys. The very nature of politics is that there are no moral victories and it is by definition a choice between imperfect alternatives. In this particular case, the Bolivian electoral court decided that there was a discrepancy between ballots and the section totals, which was the initial controversial decision to pause the count. Maybe it was Maduro-esque, maybe it wasn't. Diego Pary, the foreign minister, invited the EU, Brazil and Argentina to accompany the recount. Except that can't happen anymore, because in places like Sucre opposition protesters decided to set fire to ballot boxes, and in others, like Cobija, protesters only took over the electoral courts, where ballots were held. So the recount, which, again, the Morales government had invited the EU, Brazil and Argentina to accompany, is impossible now. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 05:20
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Play to win
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Oct 24, 2019 05:22
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I see the d&d regime change propaganda machine is revving up
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Oct 24, 2019 05:26
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