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bobjr posted:the elevator scorpion moment.
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Oct 21, 2019 15:57
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Naked Harry Dresden channeling lightning to blow up a frog demon is cool, but has some problems when you analyze is. There is also the belt In Fool Moon I think, where Harry shows just how much of an idiot he is.
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Oct 21, 2019 16:20
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I think the first three books get a bum rap, I say, even as I constantly whinge about Butcher's flaws. No, really- in terms of 'first novel as a series' and 'first published novel', they're pretty good. I think. I'm not actually sure, because the voice narration might have contributed somewhat to my impression of the texts. But... I dunno. There are books like Anita Blake where there are some neat ideas, but also just complete anti-climaxes. There's the Iron Druid where the conflict felt completely underwhelming and the stakes were a big ?. The first couple books do a great job of establishing what's going on, what's going to happen, and sticking the landing on those rising tensions. For all his flaws, Butcher is exceptional when it comes to writing with emotion and energy in a way that makes you wanna go 'yeah, blow the tires off that loving truck'. And that's the worst part about his cringe stuff- it undermines the tempo of an otherwise thundering beat. As an aside, Mercy Thompson was ( aside from Verus and Rivers ) the first UF book I read of a series in a long time where I was like 'yeah this owns actually' and wanted more. I also liked Magic Bites, but... eh. Eh. I'd like to see more UF written by women, but the coding is such that whenever I see one written by a woman I always wonder if it's going to be a paranormal romance. Chances are good other readers expect the same when they see a female pen-name and a cover with a woman, some spooky critter, and some kind of weapon. Exmond posted:Naked Harry Dresden channeling lightning to blow up a frog demon is cool, but has some problems when you analyze is. I like the part where how Morgan later defeats a bunch of red court nobles and stuff but is defeated by a chair in book 1
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Oct 21, 2019 16:44
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Oh hey I can help here, give you a brief overview of the UF I've read/am reading: Mercy Thompson: is good, is very good. I've read the first two, but have been warned that 3 contains graphic rape. I'm going to read it still but not yet, am reading a buttload of other stuff first. Chicagoland Vampires: This is very pleasant fluff, and probably closer to PNR so far. While it's about a college student who gets attacked and turned into a vampire, and she's coping with her changes, in this universe vampires are hot, powerful, can eat food normally, and are basically superpowered hotties so she's honestly better off than she was. In this universe she's being trained to fight with a sword because proper vampires don't fight with guns, it's not honorable. Oh and when she finally accepts him, she'll become a sworn member of House Cadogan and get telepathy with Ethan, lord of the house and super insane hottie. They're fighting the attraction they have for each other but yeah. This book is stupid and I'm delighted, it's pure popcorn fluff. Chronicles of Elantra/Cast in Shadow: My favorite UF, I've posted about it before but tl;dr it's a fantasy hybrid where our heroine is a cop trying to solve murders in a city ruled by a dragon. I'm into book 4 and there is no romance, only cool/weird fantasy races (to the point that it's more like sci-fi in some regards), and the magic is weird and awesome. Hollows by Kim Harrison: After killer tomatoes decimated the human population in the 60s, supernatural races revealed themselves and now in modern day america a witch named Rachel works for the IS, who are basically magic cops. While arresting a leprechaun for tax evasion, she decides that she hates her job, frees the leprechaun in exchange for a wish, and moves in with her vampire friend Ivy in an abandoned church. One problem: the IS sends super-assassins after anyone who tries to quit, so Rachel is going to die. Or she should, she's probably the biggest moron of a protagonist I have ever met, but she's funny and I'm enjoying watching her get into and out of scrapes. I'm a hundred pages into the first book so if it goes bad I don't know yet. World of the Lupi: This one has strong PNR hints through it (the heroine spotted the hero and instantly got horny) but so far it's sticking to solving the murder of a dude, dealing with werewolf discrimination, and the politics of the werewolves themselves. It's well-written, which is a nice bonus! Dante Valentine: The most 90s novel so far - I'm 200 pages in - a couple hundred years in the future, we have flying cars, hoverboards, licensed necromancers, confirmed that Lucifer is real but God isn't, and our heroine gets a demon pointing a gun at her face. Lucifer, you see, wants her to track down a rogue demon. He's granted her a demon familiar (who is very hot) and well, she can't say no. At all. So now she's hunting a demon, hating her new demon familiar, and calling in all of her contacts to help her find this demon. No romance so far (though he is hot) and it's been focused on Dante being a badass and dealing with problems instead. I cannot describe how 90s punk it is. I love it. Half-Light City: ... yeah sorry this one is PNR. It pretends to have a plot (and for what it's worth, the plot is fun. Vampires versus fae vs humans), but it's all about getting the heroine and hero to bone. Kitty and the Midnight Hour: God I devoured this. A werewolf starts a night talk radio show about supernatural problems and accidentally winds up becoming the voice for the supernatural community as it struggles with itself + coming out to humans. But it's also about the werewolf and her messed up situation - she starts the book as a wimp in an abusive situation. Her pack alpha rapes her on a regular basis, she hates being a werewolf, and when she starts her radio show her pack tries to make her stop...which leads to her starting up self-defense classes and beginning to find a way for her to grow up and get out. I was rooting for her so much and by the end of the book she's in a much better place and I'm so relieved. There was murder to solve along the way, but this book was really about Kitty growing a spine and getting the hell away from her abusers. Good stuff, and yes: no romance! Hints of it at one point but it was way more about her growth and I loved that. Will the rest of the series hold up? Not a clue! Books I have sitting near me, ready to be read when I can get to them: Night Huntress, Jane Yellowrock, Anita Blake, Dresden 2, Imp, October Daye, Blood Destiny, Kitty 2, Mercy 3, Alpha & Omega, Bitten. Plus more of my favorite PNR author Nalini Singh. She writes quality garbage! 
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Oct 21, 2019 17:12
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bobjr posted:I think Fool Moon suffers from hitting a lot of the same plot beats as Storm Front, so when I reread them Fool Moon stood out more with its good parts, even though it still has bad parts. The only really memorable good thing from the first book I have outside of the end is the elevator scorpion moment. I have a general recall of the end of Storm Front but I'm running a blank on the elevator scene. The two bits I remember most clearly are when Harry summons an actual demon from Hell and shocked, shocked that it really is Evil. The other is the Soulgaze with Johnny Marcone. In terms of Urban Fantasy written by women, I'd like to recommend the Linnet Ellery series by Phillipa Bornikova. In this setting vampires, werewolves and even extradimensional elves exist and are publicly "out." Not only are they out, the supernaturals tend to very much be the wealthy, elite power players. Linnet Ellery was "fostered" in a vampire household and the connections she made there helped land her employment in a "white shoe" (extremely high end) vampire law firm. The only vampires are male and it is forbidden on pain of destruction for vampires to attempt to sire a female vampire. While there is romance and sex in this series, it is not a "paranormal romance." The author is actually one a bit like Ben Aaronovitch. "Phillipa Bornikova" is the pseudonym of Melinda Snodgrass, who wrote for multiple TV series and has previously published several novels and short stories. So this is another UF series where "the first book doesn't suck."
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Oct 21, 2019 19:24
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StrixNebulosa posted:After killer tomatoes decimated the human population in the 60s wait what
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Oct 21, 2019 21:35
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StrixNebulosa posted:Oh hey I can help here, give you a brief overview of the UF I've read/am reading: The rape isn't really graphic. But, it's Central to the story, and while the details aren't explicitly written about, I would warn anyone about it because it is a PTSD event for the main character and the next two maybe three books lean on it for that effect fairly frequently.
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Oct 21, 2019 21:37
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Scorchy posted:wait what Genetically modified tomatoes caused a disease that killed a large chunk of humanity.
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Oct 21, 2019 21:45
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torgeaux posted:The rape isn't really graphic. But, it's Central to the story, and while the details aren't explicitly written about, I would warn anyone about it because it is a PTSD event for the main character and the next two maybe three books lean on it for that effect fairly frequently. It isn't graphic in terms of play-by-play, but it doesn't pull any punches. The aftermath is pretty bleak as well, in terms of showing her struggles coming to terms with it. However, even though some morons in this thread keep insisting, there is no "boyfriend cures her by alpha sexing her up". Mercy has total agency in her own recovery and approaches her boyfriend on *her* terms StrixNebulosa posted:Dante Valentine: The most 90s novel so far - I'm 200 pages in - a couple hundred years in the future, we have flying cars, hoverboards, licensed necromancers, confirmed that Lucifer is real but God isn't, and our heroine gets a demon pointing a gun at her face. Lucifer, you see, wants her to track down a rogue demon. He's granted her a demon familiar (who is very hot) and well, she can't say no. At all. So now she's hunting a demon, hating her new demon familiar, and calling in all of her contacts to help her find this demon. No romance so far (though he is hot) and it's been focused on Dante being a badass and dealing with problems instead. I cannot describe how 90s punk it is. I love it. These books are stupid fun.
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Oct 21, 2019 22:25
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StrixNebulosa posted:Oh hey I can help here, give you a brief overview of the UF I've read/am reading: Thank you for your amazing post.
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Oct 22, 2019 00:04
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Proteus Jones posted:It isn't graphic in terms of play-by-play, but it doesn't pull any punches. The aftermath is pretty bleak as well, in terms of showing her struggles coming to terms with it. However, even though some morons in this thread keep insisting, there is no "boyfriend cures her by alpha sexing her up". Mercy has total agency in her own recovery and approaches her boyfriend on *her* terms Yeah, I think the books handle the issue really well, keep the main character as the lead for a reason unrelated to her relationship to the wolf, and handle the PTSD in a way consistent with real world PTSD. But, as you say, no punches pulled, and that's why in spite of the lack of graphic details, it deserves a warning.
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Oct 22, 2019 00:05
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NinjaDebugger posted:Genetically modified tomatoes caused a disease that killed a large chunk of humanity. Aw that's less fun
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Oct 22, 2019 00:18
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Scorchy posted:Aw that's less fun I got you friend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_of_the_Killer_Tomatoes
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Oct 22, 2019 00:44
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StrixNebulosa posted:Chronicles of Elantra/Cast in Shadow: My favorite UF, I've posted about it before but tl;dr it's a fantasy hybrid where our heroine is a cop trying to solve murders in a city ruled by a dragon. I'm into book 4 and there is no romance, only cool/weird fantasy races (to the point that it's more like sci-fi in some regards), and the magic is weird and awesome. It's very good as long as you can handle the magic explanations getting weirder and weirder (and somewhat harder to follow) as the story progresses. Definitely one of my favorite UF series. It's also like, the only long running fictional world UF with a singular female protagonist, so it's got that going for it. Given what you seem to like your to-read list is going to make you pretty happy. I think you'll like Toby Daye a lot.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:51
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StrixNebulosa posted:
I enjoyed this series. It's got sex and romance, but it's still UF in my book. There are a some annoying quirks and some eye-rolling stuff, but overall solid with some good twists over the books as the story progresses. The protagonist starts figuring out she's a moron too. Also, rape ahoy. It's treated as the awful, lovely act of violence that it is. It comes fairly early in the series iirc - maybe book 2.
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Oct 22, 2019 06:17
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Scorchy posted:Aw that's less fun It still seems a really random plot point though. I mean "I need an instigating event that will destroy the masquerade and bring the monsters out of the shadows" *Looks down thoughtfully at her salad* "Eureka!"
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Oct 22, 2019 15:34
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aers posted:It's very good as long as you can handle the magic explanations getting weirder and weirder (and somewhat harder to follow) as the story progresses. Definitely one of my favorite UF series. It's also like, the only long running fictional world UF with a singular female protagonist, so it's got that going for it. I will read literally anything Michelle Sagara/West writes from what I've read of her so far. She's insanely talented. Also I'm excited to start October Daye! I just need to finish one more book so my stack doesn't get TOO high. Chicagoland Vampires: Finished book 1 last night, and lord almighty it decided to double-down on the stupid. The heroine walks in on king vampire having sex, the heroine hassles one of her coworkers about why she's not dating her boss like she should be (WTF), she gets a sentient katana, she turns a tense political moment into another vampire turning a political favor into forcing her to date him, and she tries to get out of it by turning to king vampire for help but he decides it'd be politically useful so she has to do it, and basically the entire book is high-school level drama but with more graphic sex. And katanas. The mage genuinely has a more fulfilling and communicative relationship with his katana than with the girl he's banging. Pure stupid, and my UF-loving friend has assured me that the finale of the series ends in the most stupid way possible so I'm committed to reading the entire thing... but not yet. Book 2 will arrive in the next week or two and I'll get to it when I'm ready for this kind of fluff. In the meantime I'm focusing on Hollows 1 (thanks for the rape warning, Wizchine, I'll be braced when I get to it), Dante 1, Lupi 1, and stuff I should talk about in the fantasy thread instead of this one. I'm reading as fast as I can, all the time.
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Oct 22, 2019 15:53
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There's a really good thread here on these very forums that's Urban Fantasy set in the Shadowrun universe. Blake Island, it's called. Multiple novels worth of plot so far.
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Oct 22, 2019 17:08
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Wizchine posted:I enjoyed this series. It's got sex and romance, but it's still UF in my book. There are a some annoying quirks and some eye-rolling stuff, but overall solid with some good twists over the books as the story progresses. The protagonist starts figuring out she's a moron too. Also, rape ahoy. It's treated as the awful, lovely act of violence that it is. It comes fairly early in the series iirc - maybe book 2. I don't know why 'sex and romance' stops something from being Urban Fantasy, considering I'm pretty sure most UF books I've read have had sex and romance in some flavor. Hell, book... 1? of Dresden Files has a sex scene that's suppose to be romantic.
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Oct 22, 2019 17:50
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VanSandman posted:There's a really good thread here on these very forums that's Urban Fantasy set in the Shadowrun universe. Blake Island, it's called. Multiple novels worth of plot so far. Can you link it? I can't find it. Dante Valentine: my god, her life sucks. Just got the bit where Lucas went "you're after who? oh god, you're dead. goodbye. you don't have to pay me for info."
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Oct 22, 2019 19:11
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Kchama posted:I don't know why 'sex and romance' stops something from being Urban Fantasy, considering I'm pretty sure most UF books I've read have had sex and romance in some flavor. Hell, book... 1? of Dresden Files has a sex scene that's suppose to be romantic. I noted it above, but the Linnet Ellerly series is very much like that. Linnet has sex and there is a guy that she's into/loves, but that isn't the focus of the series. Also, Linnet isn't an especially physical character in terms of fights/etc. She's a lawyer and mostly uses her knowledge (especially of vampire culture), wits and skills of observation to deal with situations. I hope we get more books in that series soon. While it wasn't a "cliffhanger" exactly, book three very much left off on a note of "Oh, hell yes, poo poo's about to get real now!"
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Oct 22, 2019 21:24
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Whoever recommended October Day was spot on. I’m listening to the first book right now and it’s going to be my next binge .
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Oct 23, 2019 05:51
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Kchama posted:I don't know why 'sex and romance' stops something from being Urban Fantasy, considering I'm pretty sure most UF books I've read have had sex and romance in some flavor. Hell, book... 1? of Dresden Files has a sex scene that's suppose to be romantic. For me, it's just a matter of emphasis. It's not that sex and romance prevents a book from becoming UF - especially romance, it's just a matter of emphasis.
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Oct 23, 2019 07:39
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Might be weird but what really put me off of Chicagoland Vampires was that the vamps used katanas. Talk about an overrated sword. So has Elliott James stopped writing? I really liked his Pax Arcana series, not least for having a relationship where the big strong one of the couple was the woman and the snarky male UF protagonist having an unusual degree of self awareness. Also, speaking of smaller male UF authors with less lovely gender politics the sequel to The Girl With Ghost Eyes by MH Boroson (who is actually a white guy) is out and it’s pretty good so far. It follows Xiang Li Lin, a Chinese exorcist-priestess who attempts to protect her turn of the nineteenth century San Francisco community from supernatural forces. Mars4523 fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 08:11
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Aerdan posted:I read the Goodman Grey short story from Parallel Worlds last night. Apparatchik Magnet posted:Marcone wants the bad thing to stop, but wants to blackmail or control the bad people, I guess. Because Marcone is Actually Bad himself. Aerdan posted:I mean, I guess, but Goodman Grey had to explain to Marcone that the child brothels were likely to be a recurring problem if the customers don't disappear. It's especially bizarre given that Marcone's "no kids" rule is supposedly ironclad. It just seems out of character for Marcone to prioritize blackmail over removing people who'd target kids. I think there's a point you all are missing: The customers were Marcone's people. As far as Marcone was concerned, killing/punishing them for breaking The Rule was Marcone's responsibility. Marcone was angry with Grey for overstepping and killing some of Marcone's people without specific permission from Marcone. Even though Marcone would absolutely have killed them himself.
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Oct 23, 2019 08:29
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Mars4523 posted:Also, speaking of smaller male UF authors with less lovely gender politics the sequel to The Girl With Ghost Eyes by MH Boroson (who is actually a white guy) is out and it’s pretty good so far. It follows Xiang Li Lin, a Chinese exorcist-priestess who attempts to protect her turn of the nineteenth century San Francisco community from supernatural forces.
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Oct 23, 2019 22:19
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So I decided to try finishing Grave Peril because the party scene kind of made me mad and stop reading. So I've been reading more. The confrontation with the Black Court vampire's like, probably the best bit I've ever read out of Butcher! And then the we got to the part that made me wonder what all those people who claim that Harry can't help but protect people in danger or the weak were smoking when Justine begs him for help and he tells her to gently caress off repeatedly and then gets mad when she finally lands on the magic words that gets his horrible chauvinism going and makes him agree to help her. EDIT: Oh and also him blaming all the vampire victims as being at fault for what happened to them. EDIT2: Wait, hold on. He says he can't soulgaze Bianca because vampires don't have a soul, but he soulgazed her pretty drat good in book 1. Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 00:58
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Kchama posted:So I decided to try finishing Grave Peril because the party scene kind of made me mad and stop reading. So I've been reading more. The confrontation with the Black Court vampire's like, probably the best bit I've ever read out of Butcher! Did Harry soulgaze Bianca in Book1? I thought he just used The Sight on her and then did something to reveal her true form that also got her to eat her girlfriend for something. It's been a few years since I read Book 3. I figure some of that (blaming the vamp victims) arises out of frustration that he can't save them. With Justine it's more that he knows the more people he tries to save the less likely it is that anybody with him gets out alive (in the non-undead way).
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Oct 24, 2019 01:23
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I think Justine was trying to get him to help Thomas and Dresden's response is basically "Why should I help a vampire?"
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Oct 24, 2019 01:46
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Necrotizer F posted:Did Harry soulgaze Bianca in Book1? I thought he just used The Sight on her and then did something to reveal her true form that also got her to eat her girlfriend for something. He saw into her emotions and saw 'something trying to claw its way out', IIRC, when he looked her in the eyes. That's how Soulgaze has worked for everyone else. With Justine it's not that at all. He straight up immediately refuses to save her initially because he believes she's not human, and then when she reveals she is human, he immediately jumps to her not being worth saving, gently caress off. And it's only when she lays on the charm and talk about how Bianca will make her a whore if he doesn't does he decide to help 'without thinking about it'. And then she has to beg him to save Thomas too, after he straight up says that he was going to let Thomas die 'cuz gently caress Thomas. He finally relents. And then he starts shouting about how much he hates all women. Hub Cat posted:I think Justine was trying to get him to help Thomas and Dresden's response is basically "Why should I help a vampire?" It was both. She initially had to beg to be helped, and then when he finally relented he went "But I'm gonna let Thomas die, gently caress him." and she had to beg him to save Thomas's life too. EDIT: Did Harry just use magic and kill a whole fuckton of humans? Kchama fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 01:50
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Yep
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Oct 24, 2019 05:53
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Kchama posted:He saw into her emotions and saw 'something trying to claw its way out', IIRC, when he looked her in the eyes. That's how Soulgaze has worked for everyone else. Justine is interesting. She's much smarter than she initially comes off. There's a pretty cool story collected in Brief Cases with her and Johnny Marcone. Also, her relationship with Thomas should come off as this emotionally controlling rape thing, but it somehow doesn't. Speaking of Thomas, hopefully when Peace Talks finally comes out we'll finally get a "cards on the table" family meeting between him and Ebenezer McCoy. Kchama posted:EDIT: Did Harry just use magic and kill a whole fuckton of humans? Sort of, but it doesn't count as far as "The Laws of Magic" are concerned. If Harry "Fuegos" a human mugger into Bar-B-Q, that breaks the Law against killing. They're in a house (or vampire mansion) that Harry sets on fire and he dies due to that, it doesn't count because it wasn't a direct magical effect. If Harry calls a wind to blow somebody off a roof, that counts. if he uses his [spoiler]Winter Knight[/i] power to freeze beastie and some nearly water and somebody later slips on that frozen water, falls down some stairs and breaks their neck, it doesn't count. Everyone fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 05:54
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Necrotizer F posted:Justine is interesting. She's much smarter than she initially comes off. There's a pretty cool story collected in Brief Cases with her and Johnny Marcone. Necrotizer F posted:Sort of, but it doesn't count as far as "The Laws of Magic" are concerned. If Harry "Fuegos" a human mugger into Bar-B-Q, that breaks the Law against killing. They're in a house (or vampire mansion) that Harry sets on fire and he dies due to that, it doesn't count because it wasn't a direct magical effect. If Harry calls a wind to blow somebody off a roof, that counts. if he uses his Winter Knight power to freeze beastie and some nearly water and somebody later slips on that frozen water, falls down some stairs and breaks their neck, it doesn't count. I think with Bianca's mansion Dresden literally just handwaves it with like "who could say if they were dead before I burned it down  " and it just never comes up again.(I recognize in reality that the wardens would get choppy on anything that smells like a Law violation and Dresden not getting poo poo is author fiat and I don't want to do the ~soul damage~ stuff again) Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 06:12
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Everything about the White Court is terrible.
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Oct 24, 2019 09:55
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Doesn’t Thomas also use Susan as a brief distraction right before too? Surprised Harry wasn’t more mad about that. Butcher did say once that Harry would break all the laws at least once though, so I’m wondering how some of those would happen.
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Oct 24, 2019 14:00
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Everything about the White Court is terrible. Disagree, The oblivion war is interesting, and L. Wraith is also interesting. The issue as usual is that the Harry Dresden viewport is not so interesting.
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Oct 24, 2019 15:56
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Dresden and Co. just arrived in Mexico in my Changes reread. Almost gotten through all of them so hopefully we’ll hear something about a Cold Days release soon.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:10
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Necrotizer F posted:Also, her relationship with Thomas should come off as this emotionally controlling rape thing, but it somehow doesn't.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:11
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Anias posted:Disagree, The oblivion war is interesting, and L. Wraith is also interesting. The issue as usual is that the Harry Dresden viewport is not so interesting. The Oblivion war was just about the worst thing I think Butcher has written.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:15
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Daric posted:Dresden and Co. just arrived in Mexico in my Changes reread. Almost gotten through all of them so hopefully we’ll hear something about a Cold Days release soon. Cold Days is out, did you mean Peace Talks? In which case, it's apparently finished and now scheduled for the spring.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:35
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