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Pesmerga posted:Quick and dirty. Needs Farage hiding under the table. E: Californium-252 is a synthetic transuranium element first created, believe it or not, in California. Users of californium must take into account radiological concerns and the element's ability to disrupt the formation of red blood cells by bioaccumulating in skeletal tissue. This may be a welcome diversion from the bioaccumulation of hot brexit takes, which also affect blood pressure. RockyB fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 11:17
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Pesmerga posted:Quick and dirty. lol
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Oct 25, 2019 11:17
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Doesn't praxis just mean "custom, the thing that is typically done"? I keep seeing it used here like it means "deeply satisfying" or something
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Oct 25, 2019 11:17
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Praxis is leftist thought put into action. It basically means practice but half the point of leftism is having weird jargon to argue with other leftists about. I do quite like Friere's characterisation of it as the rolling synthesis of reflection/action together, as he argues you can't really do leftism properly without doing both of those constantly and communally. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 11:19
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OwlFancier posted:Praxis is leftist thought put into action. No. It's action towards changing society, not necessarily left wing either. Importantly it's not thought put into action but rather actions which you then think about and put into more actions. But it's the internet so now Goose is Praxis etc.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:25
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EU isn't going to decide on the length of extension until Monday or Tuesday. Essentially, everyone is playing chicken.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:28
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Aramoro posted:No. It's action towards changing society, not necessarily left wing either. Importantly it's not thought put into action but rather actions which you then think about and put into more actions. https://twitter.com/house_house_/status/1176724707019591680
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Oct 25, 2019 11:28
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Aramoro posted:No. It's action towards changing society, not necessarily left wing either. Importantly it's not thought put into action but rather actions which you then think about and put into more actions. As I added yes that's how I think Friere characterises it and I do prefer that meaning but generally in use it's just "doing leftism at the world"
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Oct 25, 2019 11:28
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https://twitter.com/DanielBoffey/status/1187674086337593344 There's no way they announce it until the general election vote has happened. Without the extension, the general election vote is guaranteed not to pass.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:28
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If they're not having a summit and they agree that it's going to happen I don't really see how it can be other than the january timescale.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:30
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drat, this is Labour's fault for stalling. They need to get their poo poo sorted for an election now.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:38
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OwlFancier posted:Praxis is leftist thought put into action. The empire of the UKMT had lasted 10 millennia. 10,000 years of terror, violence and oppressive brutal order, legitimised by the Praxis...
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Oct 25, 2019 11:41
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I know peckerhead got himself banned, but for anyone reading his 'unelectable' posts it's worth clarifying how the Labour party actually works for casual onlookers. A lot of this thread's regulars sometimes assume everyone has a degree-level amount of political knowledge and it can be daunting as a newcomer to read something like this. DISCLAIMER: I am still learning, and this seems complicated to me, and if I get some of it wrong please correct me. Labour really has two elements - it's members (and the structures who support them) and its MPs. At the moment, Labour has 485,000 members and an estimated 40% of the vote share. To put this in perspective, the Conservatives have 191k and the Lib Dems have 125k. That is a huge, huge disparity in support. Labour's membership has been as high as 515k, but notably before Corbyn, it was at around 190,000 - about the same as the current Conservatives. That huge surge in support was down to Corbyn and Momentum, but was only possible because of the structures within the party which listen to the members and what they want. I would appreciate if someone else could longpost about the NEC and how they work, but essentially the internal structure of the party is incredibly democratic and really tries to listen to its members. It almost wasn't though, and that's where the other side of the coin comes in. The PLP, or the MPs who are elected by the public. A lot of the time they are the ones elected by the public who have to appease their BXP leaning constituencies, or lean into authoritarianism to try to win over Tory marginals, or Blair stuck them in a safe seat because of their loyalty. Or like Kate Hoey, the safe seat they landed in is actually their phylactery. Whatever the reason, a lot of the PLP are against Corbyn not because they think he is unelectable, they oppose him because they worry he will impact on their electability. A lot of them would prefer to remain in opposition because they just want to continue to cash their £80k plus expenses and occasionally get on the telly or in the papers because they voted for something. All of this boils down to the fact that the internal structure of the Labour Party is more complex than other parties. And a lot of the 'infighting' that's being reported is down to the loving press not understanding how it works and saying things like 'Corbyn shut down the coup on Watson' when it was the NEC polling its members who did that. But with the chinese whispers doing the rounds on twitter the message gradually mutates from "Labour members voted to do this" to "Labour did this" to "Corbyn did this in a nandos." Then when a member of the PLP comes out and says what they think (to save their job in their constituency), the papers leap on it because they understand MPs better. Then in a few days Corbyn will clarify the official party line, and the papers double down on the confusion angle because they still don't understand party mechanisms (or don't want to admit that they don't). E: Also obviously that Corbyn's socialist leaning policies frighten the centrists who want the problems to be fixed without anything really changing, and also for the wealth gap to be fixed without having to take a pay cut. Ultimately the whole mess comes down to the press just reporting on whatever twitter says rather than doing their loving jobs and researching how things actually work, and it's down to PLP members trying to save their arses. Meanwhile, Corbyn is taking his cues from the membership, which is more than twice the size of any other party. He is doing this because he knows that is where his support lies, that is where his electability lies. Not in PLP members trying to triangulate themselves another few years of MPs salary. Not surveys commissioned to tell MPs what they want to hear, or so that they can go on the news and say "actually, this is what you want." Not what the papers say. What the members say. What the engaged, voting public say. The head of the largest political party in the UK is listening to his membership, which is more than twice that of any other party. This is why he was elected leader of the Labour party. Saying that people think Corbyn is unelectable is one thing, and reflects a lot of the problems above. But saying that he is unelectable is absolute guff. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 11:46
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I'm inclined to suggest it's the EU's fault for stalling tbh, the entire opposition has been entirely reasonable in saying no GE before the extension is secured, it's not a secret what we want the extension for, if the EU don't want to cooperate to try and prop up the johnson government, that's their fault.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:46
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Saying that people think Corbyn is unelectable is one thing, and reflects a lot of the problems above. But saying that he is unelectable is absolute guff. When people say Corbyn is unelectable they are specifically referring to his ability to win a general election. Now a large part of that is down to parts of the Labour party being in open revolt against him making it very hard for him to actually present a cohesive party* to vote for. That's just how we frame things though, the election will be Boris vs Corbyn, not really Tories vs Labour. It certainly didn't sound very cohesive when Diane Abbot was saying she couldn't speak for the Whips Office this morning when they seemed to be briefing contrary to what she was saying.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:51
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I assume the EU are looking at it and thinking the 31st January is too tight a deadline for an extension when there is an election/Xmas between now and then. But they don't want to come out and offer and even longer one because of the optics of it.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:52
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Meanwhile, Corbyn is taking his cues from the membership, which is more than twice the size of any other party. He is doing this because he knows that is where his support lies, that is where his electability lies. Not in PLP members trying to triangulate themselves another few years of MPs salary. Not surveys commissioned to tell MPs what they want to hear, or so that they can go on the news and say "actually, this is what you want." Not what the papers say. What the members say. What the engaged, voting public say. This is a great post, but I'm a little unsure about this point - there have been two areas where Corbyn appears to be hesitant in following the membership's views. The first, as we know, is on Brexit, and the second was the way in which the leadership handled the vote at conference on free movement, which they appear to have ignored, by and large.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:52
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Aramoro posted:When people say Corbyn is unelectable they are specifically referring to his ability to win a general election. Now a large part of that is down to parts of the Labour party being in open revolt against him making it very hard for him to actually present a cohesive party* to vote for. That's just how we frame things though, the election will be Boris vs Corbyn, not really Tories vs Labour. Which worked spectacularly for the Tories when they thought that Theresa May's image was more popular than Loser Corbyn.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:54
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OwlFancier posted:I'm inclined to suggest it's the EU's fault for stalling tbh, the entire opposition has been entirely reasonable in saying no GE before the extension is secured, it's not a secret what we want the extension for, if the EU don't want to cooperate to try and prop up the johnson government, that's their fault. The EU doesn't owe any part of the UK political establishment anything, they want a resolution that's not chaotic for the EU and it's Labour loving this up by not making the path the UK will take clear.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:56
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The EU has a very easy way to resolve it, put the extension forward as soon as possible. Then you'll get your election. It is not the job of parliament to endanger the country to make life easier for some french rear end in a top hat with a god complex.
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Oct 25, 2019 11:58
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It’s a three way game of chicken, but it does increasingly make Labour’s strategic ambiguity look like it was a chronic inability to make a decision.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:03
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If they call an election before the extension is agreed to then the entire process hinges on the EU being nice and offering an appropriate extension duration, and if they don't, parliament is dissolved and nothing can be done about it. It is absolutely correct to retain parliament's ability to intercede until the extension is set in stone.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:05
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Pesmerga posted:This is a great post, but I'm a little unsure about this point - there have been two areas where Corbyn appears to be hesitant in following the membership's views. The first, as we know, is on Brexit, and the second was the way in which the leadership handled the vote at conference on free movement, which they appear to have ignored, by and large. It does seem like there's some resistance to the actual democratic part of the Corbyn project even amongst the leadership, Corbyn included, and it'll be interesting to watch it play out. I hope the party will actually be able to become a mass movement from below, rather than this current strained contradictory sort of thing
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Oct 25, 2019 12:06
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Pesmerga posted:The first, as we know, is on Brexit, and the second was the way in which the leadership handled the vote at conference on free movement, which they appear to have ignored, by and large. E: Not particularly bothered by how areas tend to vote because tgat's more of a PLP issue, I mean how the membership have tended to vote when straight up asked leave/remain. I get the impression that if they polled the membership and it was any closer than 60/40, they'd say that's not close enough to support either position. Again though, the upshot of that would be them taking a nuanced approach, which is hard for the papers to understand. They don't seem to understand the idea of a leader representing their members, rather than someone like Boris or Swinson saying "We're doing this, gently caress you." Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 12:07
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My guess (hope?) is actually that the EU plan to offer a different extension than the 31st January and are trying to run down the clock such that it can't be rejected by parliament. I can't imagine they want an election where Boris would get a majority and do a damaging no-deal Brexit.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:11
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If the EU said "we've made our preparations for the no deal scenario, we prefer it doesn't happen, but take as long as you like' and set some fully flexible and re-negotiable 10 year deadline, that would completely deflate Johnson wouldn't it? Happy to have thought-errors corrected!
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Oct 25, 2019 12:15
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Maintaining no deal readiness for 10 years would be extremely unhelpful for them.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:16
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Okay so there is now a promise of extension but the length of it will be decided after the UK parliament vote, Labour have to make their position clear before the vote.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:16
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I'd be interested to know how the membership have tended to vote because I suspect that, as some of the more seasoned posters in here have noted, a significant proportion of Labour's membership seem to be pro leave. https://ukandeu.ac.uk/labour-members-love-corbyn-but-hate-brexit/ According to academic research, 83% of the membership are in favour of remain.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:24
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namesake posted:Okay so there is now a promise of extension but the length of it will be decided after the UK parliament vote, Labour have to make their position clear before the vote.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:25
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https://twitter.com/cynical_bathtub/status/1187646076523831297
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Oct 25, 2019 12:26
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Bobby Deluxe posted:"Make sure no deal is impossible, then election, then second referendum" seems pretty clear to me. How is the first part supposed to be achieved?
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Oct 25, 2019 12:28
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^^^ Wait until the EU give us an extension. The absolute worst thing for Labour would be to call a VONC, enter an election, and then the EU refuse to extend, meaning we crash out and the Conservatives and Libs get to run an election campaign about how it's all Labour's fault. Brief reminder that if Swinson had backed Corbyn's unity government, this could have been over a month or two ago, so stop pretending that it's Labour playing silly buggers. Pesmerga posted:https://ukandeu.ac.uk/labour-members-love-corbyn-but-hate-brexit/ Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 12:28
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VideoGames posted:No I said you are making the same posts, not that you are him. UK politics have been paralysed by Brexit and infighting in both the government and opposition for years, so the political issues causing that and resulting from it are going to be a constantly recurring theme in any political discussion. Its far more important than who tweeted what this morning. Objecting to people mentioning things we all know are true and are having a massive current derogatory effect on the whole of the UK again isn't a very convincing argument. Maybe this is why labour are struggling to get people from outside their insular factions on board, I'm certainly more anti-labour than I was before being called all the cunts under the sun for floating in here looking for a political glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. It makes a change from getting called a traitor and quisling by all the gammons though.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:34
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Jesus christ stop talking down to an admin.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:36
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Jesus christ stop talking down to an admin. Or at least take it to a DM
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Oct 25, 2019 12:36
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People were mean to me on the internet, so it is with a heavy heart that I vote for more austerity death.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:37
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you could always go join the politically homeless party.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:37
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Morningwoodpecker posted:
great, can we accelerate this process until you're no longer interested in posting here, please?
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Oct 25, 2019 12:40
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incidentally, i don't think a comparison to pissflaps is valid, pissflaps earned his ousting but at very least he was funny.
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Oct 25, 2019 12:44
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