UKMT Red October 2019: Lies, dem libs, and polling companies.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Red October 2019: Lies, dem libs, and polling companies.

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Scikar: Nov 20, 2005; 5? Seriously?

radmonger posted:

gently caress, Labour really is hosed isn�t it?

Is there really no one left who has any ambition other than losing by a lesser margin than 2015? No one who is remotely aware that most of the seats that need winning to do better than 2017 have several non-Tory, non-fascist candidates standing? Voters need to be persuaded, not intimidated.

Hahaha, you really have no understanding, do you? People support Corbyn because they have ambition. What 2017 showed, and you are seemingly incapable of learning, was that gaining votes is as much about persuading your natural supporters to actually go out and vote for you as it is to try to swing "floating voters". What 2010 and 2015 showed, which you completely missed, was that chasing the latter at the expense of the former ends up with you having the same policies as your opponents and losing anyway. The third way has been losing ground continually since a 1997 high and it hasn't won an election since 2005, and yet here you are letting it dictate your political strategy fifteen years later. You're loving irrelevant, and instead of accepting that, you think you can somehow blame your refusal to support what are actually moderate centre-left policies in any sane country on some people being mean to you on the internet. gently caress off already.

e:

Scikar fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 25, 2019

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:47

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# ? May 23, 2024 20:27

RockyB: Mar 8, 2007; Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good

So, Bercow is still out on the 31st I think. Does he get to sit and vote as an actual independent until the election?

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:48

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Ms Adequate posted:

It's true, I'm a huge slutty sub.

I think they don't make sandwiches like that anymore.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:50

Gorn Myson: Aug 8, 2007

Tony Blair would win an election with the Labour Party again. Hes won three before and politics is exactly the same as it was in 1997 which means he would definitely win a huge majority against Johnson. The problem is that the left won't stop banging on about how he helped kill hundreds of thousands of people. It was 2003 guys, get over it.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:50

Diet Crack: Jan 15, 2001

Josef bugman posted:

I think they don't make sandwiches like that anymore.

Just stuff it full of meat

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:54

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

The lib dem article is basically "I stopped actually being invested in political outcomes and the rest of the country is stupid for not following me into apathy"

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:54

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

i want garlic bread

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:55

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

https://twitter.com/thecourieruk/status/1187740379136675840

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:56

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Ratjaculation posted:

i want garlic bread

finally, some good loving policies

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:57

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Scikar posted:

e:

Yes, superb battle-scarred handsome catte. Superb fully intact beautiful catte.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:57

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

dispatch_async posted:

https://twitter.com/thecourieruk/status/1187740379136675840

Headlines don't get much better than that.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:58

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

Doccykins posted:

Reminder the only reason macron is president is because the alternative was marine le pen who is arguing she only lost because of this Charlie Hebdo front page

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/11/french-court-to-decide-on-marine-le-pen-steaming-excrement-case

hopefully Macron is the kick up the arse the French left needed to get its poo poo together

this isn't even the first time in recent memory the runoff ended up being between a neolib and a fash because the centre-left didn't bother turning out to vote in the first round

# ? Oct 25, 2019 19:59

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Been watching a lot of Deadwood recently, can't help but think that it makes things much simpler (though not better) if you can go up to the cause of your problems and just punch him till he swallows his own teeth.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:05

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

Josef bugman posted:

Been watching a lot of Deadwood recently, can't help but think that it makes things much simpler (though not better) if you can go up to the cause of your problems and just punch him till he swallows his own teeth.

wouldn't mind introducing Cameron to Mr Wu's pigs

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:08

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Julio Cruz posted:

wouldn't mind introducing Cameron to Mr Wu's pigs

Wouldn't mind just giving a long-rear end rant to any Tory about how they look like a oval office

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:27

StarkingBarfish: Jun 25, 2006; Novus Ordo Seclorum

Josef bugman posted:

Been watching a lot of Deadwood recently, can't help but think that it makes things much simpler (though not better) if you can go up to the cause of your problems and just punch him till he swallows his own teeth.

Now this is a direct democracy I can get behind.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:31

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Julio Cruz posted:

hopefully Macron is the kick up the arse the French left needed to get its poo poo together

this isn't even the first time in recent memory the runoff ended up being between a neolib and a fash because the centre-left didn't bother turning out to vote in the first round

They did though, they just had a spoiler candidate who split the vote enough to put Macron up against Le Pen rather than M�lenchon.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:31

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Ms Adequate posted:

Wouldn't mind just giving a long-rear end rant to any Tory about how they look like a oval office

That's probably my favourite scene in the series

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:35

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

That's probably my favourite scene in the series

I really like the entire Dan vs the Captain fight.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:39

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

They did though, they just had a spoiler candidate who split the vote enough to put Macron up against Le Pen rather than M�lenchon.

Hamon was a candidate of the left with some good ideas, and it's a shame that he only got about 6% of the vote largely due to neoliberals like Macron's influence on the prior government. Calling him a spoiler candidate is a bit dubious, he was more of a French Corbyn but in a situation where there was an additional French Corbyn who led a different party which had the good fortune not to've had to run into reality yet.

That the candidates happened to be Macron and Le Pen rather than Fillon and M�lenchon was also kind of a fluke. The first round was extremely close between the top 4 due to every major candidate being unlikable trash in their own way.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:47

Random Integer: Oct 7, 2010

Man you think the story about the people who died in the lorry cant get more heinous and then you get to the text messages they sent as they were dying

the guardian posted:

In messages from an account titled �daughter�, Pham wrote: �I�m sorry Mum. My journey abroad hasn�t succeeded. Mum, I love you so much! I�m dying because I can�t breathe ... I�m from Nghen, Can Loc, Ha Tinh, Vietnam ... I am sorry, Mum.�

I am not in favour of capital punishment but poo poo like this certainly tests my principles.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:48

Debbie Does Dagon: Jul 8, 2005

Sanitary Naptime posted:

I can see why they�re not saying yet, but it�s getting too close for them to remain comfortable with holding it off, and if the government is going to do a vote every day like their threatening then labour just has to run down the clock.

Does that not count towards Bercow's "no identical votes"?

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:49

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

OwlFancier posted:

The lib dem article is basically "I stopped actually being invested in political outcomes and the rest of the country is stupid for not following me into apathy"

I mean accepting that good things aren't possible is liberalism.txt so makes sense

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:50

radmonger: Jun 6, 2011

Gorn Myson posted:

Tony Blair would win an election with the Labour Party again. Hes won three before and politics is exactly the same as it was in 1997 which means he would definitely win a huge majority against Johnson. The problem is that the left won't stop banging on about how he helped kill hundreds of thousands of people. It was 2003 guys, get over it.

When you see someone making a massive, obvious mistake that it is hard to believe they are being so stupid, you generally find they are attempting to repeat some earlier situation where everyone told them they were wrong, but they ignored the criticism and turned out to be right.

This was particularly obvious in the late and post-Blair era, where it was pretty obvious to everyone that triangulation had run it�s course, but for those in charge it was eternally 1997 and success could only be sought by ritually dressing up as King Tony and finding some leftists to punch.

It�s sad to see the next generation of Labour doing the same thing, but with 2017 replacing 1997.

If there is an election in 2019, it needs to be fought in the here and now, based on current demographics, issues and opinions. And not by doing a ritual reenactment of something that once worked .

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:55

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

Ms Fuchi posted:

Does that not count towards Bercow's "no identical votes"?

I think that the FTPA invocation isn�t quite the same thing, because that would mean there was only one opportunity per parliament to do it.

That would be dumb as gently caress as per the Nick Clegg Parliament Act, but as anyone who listened to the last episode of the podcast knows I�m probably talking bullshit about parliamentary procedure :v:

# ? Oct 25, 2019 20:59

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Scikar posted:

Hahaha, you really have no understanding, do you? People support Corbyn because they have ambition. What 2017 showed, and you are seemingly incapable of learning, was that gaining votes is as much about persuading your natural supporters to actually go out and vote for you as it is to try to swing "floating voters". What 2010 and 2015 showed, which you completely missed, was that chasing the latter at the expense of the former ends up with you having the same policies as your opponents and losing anyway. The third way has been losing ground continually since a 1997 high and it hasn't won an election since 2005, and yet here you are letting it dictate your political strategy fifteen years later. You're loving irrelevant, and instead of accepting that, you think you can somehow blame your refusal to support what are actually moderate centre-left policies in any sane country on some people being mean to you on the internet. gently caress off already.

e:

The reason Gordon Brown lost power in 2010 is because the Lib Dems refused to work with him, out of vanity. They wanted to feel like they had scalped the man who defined an era. It wasn't due to "chasing the centre ground". It was a hung parliament where the LDs were kingmakers, but unfortunately they were tories.

Also, Labour had kind of lost the mandate of heaven by 2010 and were palling about with the Fonz at number 10 and talking about jade goody in parliament and poo poo; these things run out of steam.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:06

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

Brown lost power in 2010 because he was too Old Labour for Murdoch and pals' liking and so he had to go, thus he went.

Labour didn't have the grass roots then as it does now, though.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:09

Scikar: Nov 20, 2005; 5? Seriously?

radmonger posted:

When you see someone making a massive, obvious mistake that it is hard to believe they are being so stupid, you generally find they are attempting to repeat some earlier situation where everyone told them they were wrong, but they ignored the criticism and turned out to be right.

This was particularly obvious in the late and post-Blair era, where it was pretty obvious to everyone that triangulation had run it�s course, but for those in charge it was eternally 1997 and success could only be sought by ritually dressing up as King Tony and finding some leftists to punch.

It�s sad to see the next generation of Labour doing the same thing, but with 2017 replacing 1997.

If there is an election in 2019, it needs to be fought in the here and now, based on current demographics, issues and opinions. And not by doing a ritual reenactment of something that once worked .

We don't mention 2017 out of an attempt to copy it. We mention 2017 because you were wrong then and you still can't explain why. So until you can show that you have learned anything in the last 3 years, your predictions of 2019 are worthless.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:12

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

Scikar posted:

We don't mention 2017 out of an attempt to copy it. We mention 2017 because you were wrong then and you still can't explain why. So until you can show that you have learned anything in the last 3 years, your predictions of 2019 are worthless.

No they're right, the campaign machine on the ground worked once, no reason to make use of it again.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:15

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Bundy posted:

Brown lost power in 2010 because he was too Old Labour for Murdoch and pals' liking and so he had to go, thus he went.

Labour didn't have the grass roots then as it does now, though.

Also we had hit an end to the period of prosperity he had personally been associated with, he didn't call an election when he might have won it soon after he took over Labour, and he was scared of his own voters, cf. that old racist woman who he went back and apologised to.

But, crucially, the Lib Dems didn't back him when they could've chosen to, which is important to remember.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:15

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Yeah I think you need to explain why now is different to pre-2017 which had Labour 30 points down and all sorts of far more negative predictions than we have now.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:16

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Yeah I think you need to explain why now is different to pre-2017 which had Labour 30 points down and all sorts of far more negative predictions than we have now.

Are you looking for something more nuanced than "poo poo's got worse"?

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:20

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

radmonger posted:

When you see someone making a massive, obvious mistake that it is hard to believe they are being so stupid, you generally find they are attempting to repeat some earlier situation where everyone told them they were wrong, but they ignored the criticism and turned out to be right.

This was particularly obvious in the late and post-Blair era, where it was pretty obvious to everyone that triangulation had run it�s course, but for those in charge it was eternally 1997 and success could only be sought by ritually dressing up as King Tony and finding some leftists to punch.

It�s sad to see the next generation of Labour doing the same thing, but with 2017 replacing 1997.

If there is an election in 2019, it needs to be fought in the here and now, based on current demographics, issues and opinions. And not by doing a ritual reenactment of something that once worked .

Trying to fight 2015 based on 1997 is a bit different to trying to fight 2019 based on 2017 especially if you're doing so based on current demographics, issues and opinions.

Bundy posted:

Brown lost power in 2010 because he was too Old Labour for Murdoch and pals' liking and so he had to go, thus he went.

Labour didn't have the grass roots then as it does now, though.

And Labour pissed off a ton of the yoof and arty vote through washup shenanigans in 2010 and the liberal press were more than keen to shine light on that because it helped their man :clegg:

And then it turned out Liberals prefer soft Tories over any form of socialism, even SuccDems.

And then it turned out that soft Tories love minority rights as long as they're not the right to eat or have a house or any nonsense like that, and the Lib Dems went right along.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:22

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

Guavanaut posted:

lmao Sanitary Naptime Trust Fund.

loving right? i'm still giggling at this

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:34

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

CoolCab posted:

loving right? i'm still giggling at this

UKMT:

Guavanaut posted:

Sanitary Naptime Trust Fund.

This needs more love:

Guavanaut posted:

Chuka Unable

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:36

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

The Sanitary Naptime Trust Fund can be found here

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:55

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Saros posted:

loving lol Rory Stewart. Turns out those guys in Shoreditch he called 'minor gangsters' are Irish musicians.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/25/irish-musicians-hare-squead-anger-minor-gangsters-rory-stewart

BRICK LANE IS NOT IN SHOREDITCH AND YES I AM PREPARED TO KILL FOR THIS.

(Also he wasn't even on Brick Lane, he was on Osborn Street, almost in sight of (the site of) St. Mary Matefon, the white chapel from which Whitechapel - where Brick Lane is - gets it's name)

# ? Oct 25, 2019 21:57

Alan G: Dec 27, 2003

forkboy84 posted:

Headlines don't get much better than that.

As shite as DC Thomson are they are great at headlines, the evening paper once had �Petrified Parrot Plucked From Peril�

# ? Oct 25, 2019 22:03

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

goddamnedtwisto posted:

the white chapel from which Whitechapel - where Brick Lane is - gets it's name

I'm glad the East Midlands has creative place names like Breedon on the Hill.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 22:06

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# ? May 23, 2024 20:27

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Alan G posted:

As shite as DC Thomson are they are great at headlines, the evening paper once had �Petrified Parrot Plucked From Peril�

Inverness Caledonian Thistle once beat Celtic in a cup game, and...

The entire newspaper industry should have just shut up shop after this headline.

# ? Oct 25, 2019 22:07

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