USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

Flesh Forge: Jan 31, 2011; LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

VH4Ever posted:

One thing I've noticed about this issue: we all need to pump the brakes on acting like we're armchair doctors or shrinks and throwing around half-remembered anecdotes as supposedly 1) factual evidence and 2) proof of some sort of broader trend wrt kids' and patients' rights and when certain things happen and etc. I heard the same misunderstood poo poo about what "transition" means in this case from my sister the other day before I knew about this story, but knew enough to tell her "no, I know as a fact any reputable doctor doesn't just perform surgery willy-nilly on some little kid just because the mom pressures him into it." Let's be careful, OK? The right wants facts to be cloudy around this. Don't help them by spreading misinformation. General agreed upon SOP among doctors is a lot of care in caution in approaching ANY permanent life-changing procedure, trans related or not, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find doctors enthusiastically chopping parts off kids, and the reason you might remember this one unusual case was probably because it was loving unusual or unethical.

Let's all make sure we research our answers a bit is all I mean. The RIght wants to muddy facts. Don't help.

Yeah I'm not a doctor myself but nothing I posted is inaccurate. Doctors have traditionally intervened surgically with intersexed children, and there has not been a rigorous ethical standard applied on a wide scale, and that's not some kind of controversial statement or anecdote.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/should-we-fix-intersex-children/373536/

quote:

Dr. Arlene Baratz, a medical adviser and board member of the Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome-Disorders of Sex Development (AIS-DSD) Support Group, one of the country�s largest organizations for families of intersex children, said she was concerned that the medical recommendations parents received seemed inconsistent.

�Each doctor is saying something different in cases that we would view as pretty similar,� she said. �At some hospitals there�s a lot of pressure. Others are more flexible and encourage parents to take more time making decisions on irreversible procedures.�

e: me posting

e: I will hedge a bit, I probably misremembered the specific case of the child I described, I can't find any information on a lawsuit related to a situation like that and I can't imagine the parents would not have sued :shrug:

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Oct 26, 2019

# ? Oct 26, 2019 06:57

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 04:07

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

Charlz Guybon posted:

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1187965606508683264

Uh, is he still running? I can't keep track

# ? Oct 26, 2019 07:22

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Munkeymon posted:

Uh, is he still running? I can't keep track

He's not. You can tell how impactful his campaign was that no one noticed when he announced it ended.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 07:23

Wilbur Swain: Sep 13, 2007; These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

Well at least we know the president's hypothetical actions have consequences. That's a relief.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 07:28

Haschel Cedricson: Jan 4, 2006; Brinkmanship

haveblue posted:

He's not. You can tell how impactful his campaign was that no one noticed when he announced it ended.

You'd better believe I noticed. My dad was so convinced that he'd be the Democratic nominee back in 2017 that he bet me $100. Fastest I've ever agreed to a bet.

Later in the year he told me he was worried but the reason for his loss in faith in Bloomberg was he was convinced that the Clintons would rig the primary to let Hilary run again. Alas, I couldn't talk him into double or nothing.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 07:29

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

Acebuckeye13 posted:

an obvious sign that we haven't cut taxes enough.

They predicated the tax cuts on the Laffer Curve theory, which states that tax revenue will increase with tax cuts since total taxable economic activity will increase enough to offset the lower per-dollar income. It is a curve though, and at some point it doesn�t work like that and you will do better by raising taxes. They obviously are lying that they even care about the theory, but also the obvious lower boundary condition is that at zero taxes you get zero income and so if tax revenue decreases when you cut taxes you are very likely on the wrong end of the curve already. It�s incredibly obnoxious to me that they even pretended that was a reason instead of the much more obvious �the rich should get richer.�

# ? Oct 26, 2019 07:48

Ershalim: Sep 22, 2008; Clever Betty

Wilbur Swain posted:

Well at least we know the president's hypothetical actions have consequences. That's a relief.

It's good we can count on the country to hold the president to higher standards than the vice president. I mean, we know the VP can shoot someone in the face as a gimme, so personally, I feel much more secure in knowing that a trigger-happy president is right out.

haveblue posted:

He's not. You can tell how impactful his campaign was that no one noticed when he announced it ended.

I think it's because the media keeps writing threatening articles about him (and Hildawg) as third parties to make it "more interesting" instead of being the leftist power hour and also Biden, who people only like when he tells weird racist stories about Totally Real People like Corn Pop.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 08:12

Bucky Fullminster: Apr 13, 2007

Velocity Raptor posted:

USPOL Fall: The House passed a resolution declaring Lindsey Graham " a stupid butthead".

Not sure if this was said already but Australia pretty much literally did this:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-parliament-officially-labels-eddie-mcguire-a-boofhead-over-adam-goodes-remarks-20150603-ghfnal.html

# ? Oct 26, 2019 08:35

Revelation 2-13: May 13, 2010; Pillbug

Stereotype posted:

They predicated the tax cuts on the Laffer Curve theory, which states that tax revenue will increase with tax cuts since total taxable economic activity will increase enough to offset the lower per-dollar income. It is a curve though, and at some point it doesn�t work like that and you will do better by raising taxes. They obviously are lying that they even care about the theory, but also the obvious lower boundary condition is that at zero taxes you get zero income and so if tax revenue decreases when you cut taxes you are very likely on the wrong end of the curve already. It�s incredibly obnoxious to me that they even pretended that was a reason instead of the much more obvious �the rich should get richer.�

The laffer curve has also been demonstrated to be laughably wrong more times than pretty much any other modern economic term or theory. The tortured, comical, �logic� which is the foundation for the laffer curve was invented entirely for political reasons, with the express purpose of finding an argument for lowering taxes to convince dumbshit morons.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 08:48

Ershalim: Sep 22, 2008; Clever Betty

Revelation 2-13 posted:

The laffer curve has also been demonstrated to be laughably wrong more times than pretty much any other modern economic term or theory. The tortured, comical, �logic� which is the foundation for the laffer curve was invented entirely for political reasons, with the express purpose of finding an argument for lowering taxes to convince dumbshit morons.

Damning with faint praise, ofc, but at least the Laffer Curve pretended to be something. Grover Norquist got congress to shut down the very concept of new taxes by passing around a pledge to never do it ever that he wrote 40 years ago, and got the entirety of the right to agree to it via peer pressure. It's a foundation of modern GOP orthodoxy and it's completely arbitrary with a paper trail proving that it's based on nothing. But I guess strict adherence to hollow artifice is on brand, so bully for them.

edited to add: this was created by someone who lives by the motto that nobody learns anything about politics after the age of 21, and so deliberately knows virtually nothing about his own loving job.

Ershalim fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Oct 26, 2019

# ? Oct 26, 2019 08:55

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Wilbur Swain posted:

Well at least we know the president's hypothetical actions have consequences. That's a relief.

Hypothetical consequences, of course.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 08:58

smoobles: Sep 4, 2014

The only thing left for Trump to do is literally shoot a man, preferably on 5th Avenue, so we can test our Constitution and judicial system once and for all.

It doesn't have to be on 5th Avenue.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 09:33

Caros: May 14, 2008

smoobles posted:

The only thing left for Trump to do is literally shoot a man, preferably on 5th Avenue, so we can test our Constitution and judicial system once and for all.

It doesn't have to be on 5th Avenue.

I think you will find there is no quid pro quo in this shooting.

Yes, the president's political opponent died, but as they recieved nothing in return this is obviously a democratic witch hunt.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 10:33

Gen. Ripper: Jan 12, 2013

Ershalim posted:

I think it's because the media keeps writing threatening articles about him (and Hildawg) as third parties to make it "more interesting" instead of being the leftist power hour and also Biden, who people only like when he tells weird racist stories about Totally Real People like Corn Pop.

Haschel Cedricson posted:

You'd better believe I noticed. My dad was so convinced that he'd be the Democratic nominee back in 2017 that he bet me $100. Fastest I've ever agreed to a bet.

Later in the year he told me he was worried but the reason for his loss in faith in Bloomberg was he was convinced that the Clintons would rig the primary to let Hilary run again. Alas, I couldn't talk him into double or nothing.

You know Bill de Blasio has really been a wet fart when people confuse him with Bloomberg. :v:

# ? Oct 26, 2019 10:42

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Caros posted:

I think you will find there is no quid pro quo in this shooting.

Yes, the president's political opponent died, but as they recieved nothing in return this is obviously a democratic witch hunt.

And Trump would bill both the family and the coroner $100k for the cost of the bullet

# ? Oct 26, 2019 10:46

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

WTF?

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1187915543795372032

# ? Oct 26, 2019 11:33

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

smoobles posted:

The only thing left for Trump to do is literally shoot a man, preferably on 5th Avenue, so we can test our Constitution and judicial system once and for all.

It doesn't have to be on 5th Avenue.

I have the utmost faith that the gentleman�s handshakes and napkin IOUs that constitute the US government apparatus are fully prepared to deal with the prospect of the President blatantly murdering someone in cold blood and then going �Yeah, so what?�

Surely :decorum:

will save the day once again.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 11:35

Cable Guy: Jul 18, 2005; I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...; Slippery Tilde

Charlz Guybon posted:

WTF?

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1187915543795372032

Article is behind a login wall, but managed to cut/paste it out before I was nixxed...

quote:

WASHINGTON � A key witness in the impeachment investigation filed a lawsuit Friday asking a federal judge to rule on whether he can testify, a move that raises new doubts about whether President Trump�s closest aides, like the former national security adviser, John R. Bolton, will be able to cooperate with the inquiry.

House Democrats had subpoenaed the witness, Charles M. Kupperman, who served as Mr. Trump�s deputy national security adviser, to testify on Monday. But in an effort to stop Mr. Kupperman from doing so, the White House said on Friday that the president had invoked �constitutional immunity,� leaving Mr. Kupperman uncertain about what to do.

�Plaintiff obviously cannot satisfy the competing demands of both the legislative and executive branches, and he is aware of no controlling judicial authority definitively establishing which branch�s command should prevail,� the suit said.

The implications of the suit, filed in federal court in Washington, extend beyond Mr. Kupperman. His lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, also represents Mr. Bolton and is likely to address congressional requests for his testimony in a similar fashion. House Democrats have had discussions with Mr. Cooper in recent days about Mr. Bolton testifying but have not subpoenaed him.

Democrats believe that Mr. Kupperman and Mr. Bolton could be significant witnesses for their investigation. Unlike several of the administration officials who have already testified, they were both close advisers of Mr. Trump, dealt directly with him on Ukraine policy and could testify about what Mr. Trump said behind closed doors.

Mr. Trump and the White House have attacked many of the career State Department officials who have appeared before investigators on Capitol Hill, calling them �unelected bureaucrats.� But Mr. Kupperman and Mr. Bolton, longtime Republicans, worked directly for Mr. Trump. Mr. Bolton, in particular, is seen as potentially having greater sway with Republicans and independents because of his hawkish views, which he conveyed regularly on Fox News before joining the administration.

House Democrats are investigating whether Mr. Trump withheld aid from Ukraine to pressure the country�s president to conduct investigations that could help him politically. After Mr. Bolton resigned on Sept. 10, Mr. Kupperman took over as the acting national security adviser. The next day, Mr. Trump released the $391 million in aid that he had withheld.

�Constitutional immunity� is essentially executive privilege on steroids. Mr. Kupperman said in the lawsuit that Mr. Trump�s White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, had ordered him not to comply with the subpoena. The president�s legal team apparently issued the same advice it had given other former top White House aides, like Mr. Cipollone�s predecessor, Donald F. McGahn II, who had been asked to testify before lawmakers in the spring: They are absolutely immune from being forced to testify to Congress about their official duties, meaning they do not even have to show up.

�The president, however, acting through the White House counsel, has asserted that plaintiff, as a close personal adviser to the president, is immune from congressional process, and has instructed plaintiff not to appear and testify in response to the House�s subpoena,� the lawsuit said.

Administrations of both parties have taken that position. Steven A. Engel, the Trump-appointed head of the Justice Department�s Office of Legal Counsel, asserted in a 15-page legal opinion last summer that �Congress may not constitutionally compel the president�s senior advisers to testify about their official duties.�

Democrats have portrayed that legal theory as extreme and an act of obstruction by the Trump White House. They note that in 2008, a Federal District Court judge, John D. Bates, ruled that President George W. Bush�s former White House counsel, Harriet Miers, had no right to skip a hearing for which she had been subpoenaed. Judge Bates, a Bush appointee, said she had to show up � although she might still refuse to answer specific questions based on a claim of executive privilege.

The executive branch did not appeal the Miers ruling, and because no appeals court weighed in, Judge Bates�s opinion does not count as a controlling precedent for other disputes raising the same issue. That left the Obama administration, in a 2014 memo, free to take the position that Judge Bates had been wrong, and Mr. Engel echoed that logic in his memo as well.

Mr. McGahn defied the subpoena, citing the White House�s instructions, and in August, the House Judiciary Committee filed a lawsuit seeking a judicial ruling that the Justice Department is wrong, and an order requiring Mr. McGahn to testify. That litigation is not yet resolved.

Mr. Kupperman appears to be trying another route. Instead of defying his own subpoena and waiting to be sued, as Mr. McGahn did, he is going to court himself � suing both Congress and Mr. Trump for putting him in what he portrayed as an impossible position, and asking a judge to resolve the legal issue and tell him what to do.

Mr. Kupperman �is faced with irreconcilable commands by the legislative and executive branches of the government and, accordingly, seeks a declaratory judgment from this court as to whether he is lawfully obliged to comply with a subpoena issued by the House defendants demanding his testimony �pursuant to the House of Representatives� impeachment inquiry,� or he is lawfully obliged to abide by the assertion of immunity from congressional process made by the president in connection with the testimony sought from plaintiff,� it said.

Charlie Savage contributed reporting.

This looks to me like he wants a judge to formally overrule the whitehouse's bullshit.. maybe.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 11:49

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1188054937839775744

# ? Oct 26, 2019 12:32

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Party Plane Jones posted:

https://twitter.com/HillTVLive/status/1187787598246404096

Poor Onion writers.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 12:52

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Oh so Fox and Friends must have been talking about that of all things this morning.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 12:53

SalTheBard: Jan 26, 2005; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!; Fallen Rib

Oh now he cares about the environment?

# ? Oct 26, 2019 12:59

There Bias Two: Jan 13, 2009; I'm not a good person

Cable Guy posted:

Article is behind a login wall, but managed to cut/paste it out before I was nixxed...
This looks to me like he wants a judge to formally overrule the whitehouse's bullshit.. maybe.

What the gently caress is constitutional immunity? Is that completely fabricated?

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:00

Inferior Third Season: Jan 15, 2005

Doctor Spaceman posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1188054937839775744

Reading this, it makes me feel like Democrats squandered an opportunity early on to convince Trump that the job of President is similar to the Supreme Court, but for things like getting potholes filled and sewers unclogged instead of resolving legal disputes. A person goes to their city council, but gets rejected, so they go to their state representative, etc., all the way to the President.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:02

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/adamserwer/status/1187773046658076672?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1188053446215323650?s=21

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:11

Unkempt: May 24, 2003; ...perfect spiral, scientists are still figuring it out...

Otteration posted:

Not entirely needed to be efforted to be concerned about bird faxes:
https://i.imgur.com/BgFJZ6m.mp4

So that's what a 'budgie snuggler' looks like.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:13

Taerkar: Dec 7, 2002; kind of into it, really

Party Plane Jones posted:

https://twitter.com/adamserwer/status/1187773046658076672?s=21

Hoo boy, look at all that projection right there.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:20

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Party Plane Jones posted:

https://twitter.com/adamserwer/status/1187773046658076672?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1188053446215323650?s=21

Manafort and Flynn are American citizens

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:21

zenguitarman: Apr 6, 2009; Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather

Homelessness is much worse for the environment than coal see, because

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:21

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1188067369501052929?s=20

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:26

refleks: Nov 21, 2006

Where the gently caress does the billions of dollars come from? Has he just heard of all the superfund sites around SF?

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:26

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Party Plane Jones posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1188067369501052929?s=20

A Major Award! He�s like the Dad from A Christmas Story.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:37

Ehud: Sep 19, 2003; football.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

A Major Award! He�s like the Dad from A Christmas Story.

I�m imagining the leg lamp in a window at the white house.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:49

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

That cat fails at catting.

Not his fault, budgies will snuggle up to anything warm

# ? Oct 26, 2019 13:56

SalTheBard: Jan 26, 2005; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!; Fallen Rib

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

A Major Award! He’s like the Dad from A Christmas Story.

What award did Trump won?

# ? Oct 26, 2019 14:01

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

marshmonkey posted:

https://twitter.com/jrbiersmith/status/1187958921564061696

"Well it's ok when we do it"
"b b b b but Obama!"

# ? Oct 26, 2019 14:02

tek79: Jun 16, 2008

Madkal posted:

Can someone tell me what makes a phone call "perfect"?

My own pet theory on this is that Trump was initially angling for something like "The phone call was perfectly acceptable!", but because his brain is just a mass of failing biologic sludge at this point, the thought/sentence kind of got hung up half way and came out as "The phone call was perfect...! [buzz and/or fart noise in his brain]". And then because Trump is a narcissist who thinks anything he says should be gospel and because he's incapable of producing any kind of coherent clarification, he just ran with it. So now we're all expected to go about as though it somehow means anything at all, other than the product of a lovely persons diseased brain and his refusal to admit it doesn't actually make any sense.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 14:02

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Charlz Guybon posted:

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1187965606508683264

*racks off list of Trump crimes over his lifetime*

Clearly some people are above the law

# ? Oct 26, 2019 14:03

Slowpoke!: Feb 12, 2008; ANIME IS FOR ADULTS

Trump called the phone call perfect because he is a narcissist who can only describe things he does with the best words.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 14:04

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 04:07

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Party Plane Jones posted:

https://twitter.com/adamserwer/status/1187773046658076672?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1188053446215323650?s=21

I just love how attempting to hold the president responsible for his actions, finally, is being blasted as unconstitutional, illegal, and a coup while doing unconstitutional and illegal acts for years is legit.

# ? Oct 26, 2019 14:11

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