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I am honestly most curious how you people react to discovery after finishing up all the classic stuff.
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Oct 25, 2019 21:49
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piratepilates posted:I am honestly most curious how you people react to discovery after finishing up all the classic stuff. it sucks Grand Fromage posted:Go on to DS9. You can watch movies whenever. TOS is... not great, but if you become enough of a moron like the rest of us you will have to watch everything. Nick Meyer (or Harve Bennett, I forget which, my memory's shot from this loving tumor) said that TOS is about one-third great, one-third mediocre and one-third bad, which is not a terribly inaccurate description.
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Oct 25, 2019 21:58
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Dietrich posted:Let's be honest, they all look like pajamas. Gene's Vision for future clothing and fabric is very important. It would not be true Star Trek with buttons or zips or pockets. Grand Fromage posted:TOS is... not great Incorrect.
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Oct 25, 2019 21:58
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Timby posted:it sucks yes but I want to hear other people say it
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Oct 25, 2019 21:59
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marktheando posted:Incorrect. TNG and DS9 are the only consistently (mostly) good Trek. TOS, VOY, and ENT are all Treks of occasional good episodes sprinkled over a lot of boring crap. TAS transcends your lowly concepts of "good" and "bad" and simply is.
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Oct 25, 2019 22:02
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piratepilates posted:I am honestly most curious how you people react to discovery after finishing up all the classic stuff. I'm going to be the odd person out in this thread. Been on my rewatch(my son's initial watch) of Star Trek stuff for quite some time now, doing things chronologically. We just finished up TNG recently, and started season 4 of DS9 this week. DS9 is still my favorite trek. It is so good. But I still love Discovery and the short treks we've been getting. The whole family loves them too.
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Oct 25, 2019 22:14
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Time for more "casual watches DS9" impressions. Babel: I get that they wanted to show that the Bajorans are not a pure perfect people, but they should have put some gaps between their "Bajoran terror plot" episodes. This is the third one in a row. There's also a lot of "O'Brien is overworked and getting tired of everyone" shtick in here. Bro, a month ago your only responsibility was the teleporter room. And that's not too important a job if they put teleporters on shuttlecraft. All the serious engineering stuff was being done by a robot and a blind man from Reading Rainbow. You knew being the engineering chief of a whole station was going to be a big job when you accepted. If the virus is airborne, shouldn't the nurse in the sickbay at least wear a mask? Captive Pursuit: The first guy (known?) to come through the wormhole from the gamma quadrant side isn't here for first contact ceremonies or treaties or trade, it is just a guy trying to hide from the people hunting him. That actually makes sense. O'Brien was significant focus of Babel (even if he was the first one to speak nonsense and stop being a part of the episode) and he gets a lot of attention here as well. This one is better, showing him misplace his regulations book and try to do the right thing with the situation he's been given. The idea that righteousness is not something written down in a book but is instead a flexible idea seems to be a strong theme this season, we heard some of it in the past with Odo's speech about Cardassian law and we'll see more of it as we keep going. Q-Less: More or less a TNG continuity filler. I watched enough TNG that I had a TNG themed birthday party, but it was more that I just wanted to watch TV with my Dad, so I don't remember Vash. (Or much beyond "Tasha Yar died to a blob and became a ghost and then Picard went borg, and also Data trying to define the terms of his own existence.") I do remember Q, but mostly that my Dad hated him because Q is less sci-fi and more fantasy wizardry bullshit. There's some barbs from Q and some good scenes for Quark fans, but this is mostly a throwaway episode. In a reversal of their usual roles(?), Q acts heartless while Vash is foolish and likely to get everybody killed. Dax: I remember Dax being in this show when I was ten years old, but other than her unusual name there's not a lot of details in my head. It's a character I'm much more interested in now; probably because since 2013 I've been a fan of the assorted symbiote characters in Marvel Comics (Venom and company), and I'm curious if Dax is the Star Trek equivalent of Eddie Brock. The connection between woman and alien slug is discussed here, but this episode is really just DS9 going all Ace Attorney and doing a particularly  job of it. It's said over and over that this isn't a trial but a hearing, partially because the role of prosecutor is really just a cop who shouldn't be assigned to this case with the huge conflicts he has. An ethical question is raised regarding the burden of past hosts lives and whether that responsibility carries to the new host, but it won't go answered because Sisko has already made up his mind and won't accept anything else. Sisko's defense of Dax is ultimately unnecessary thanks to plot contrivance, but it should have one lasting effect in that it hinges on establishing Jadzia as a person of no similarity to Curzon. That should be the point of acknowledging to himself that he can not keep seeing her as a continuation of his old friendship. But in future episodes he will continue calling her "old man", which along with the early string of terror plots makes me wonder if they aired episodes out of order? At no point in the hearing was it ever discussed what the legal precedent is on Trill homeworld, because again this episode really wasn't interested in the answer to it's ethical question but in putting the spotlight on characters. Still it seems really weird to bring in a guy to play "Trill expert" and not even ask that question if just to cut away. The Passenger: I didn't watch this episode because I heard it was really bad. I've watched some filler episodes this season like the last two, but I gotta draw the line somewhere. It's worth mentioning that this episode and the next are apparently haunted by the brief apparition of a by-the-books Starfleet security officer, who rubs Sisko and then Odo the wrong way with his strict adherence to regulation, continuing the theme of righteousness that I touched upon earlier. Move Along Home: Look, I knew what I was getting into here in regards to this episode's reputation. I may have even watched this episode originally for the well known pre-airing hype. Anyhow, the station welcomes Epic Gamer People, who immediately make their way to Quark's to break his metagame and thus his bank account. Not one to simply throw out the card counters, Quark tries to cheat but gets caught. His punishment is to play some dumbass game that consequently teleports a number of the crew (but conveniently not the guy who can ooze through door seals) into a cheap soundstage of doors opening and closing to reveal bullshit puzzles. There is hopscotch. There is a room full of Gamer Aliens vaping phat clowdzz from the oversized vape rigs around the room and the crew nearly dies, until Bashir gulps some vape juice before dying and realizes it now lets him breathe in this room of dank cloud chasers. Quark isn't even fully aware of the stakes until the game is half over. The huge stakes are actually not huge. Overall this episode kind of reminds me of when you get a Doctor Who episode written by someone who clearly doesn't care about the show's time-travel motif and just wants to have a base under attack. The dumb poo poo that Sisko and company are doing would be running around the halls of the TARDIS in a badly made Who episode. It wasn't great but being able to bust a gut over the obvious vape jokes in that one sequence made it bearable. The Nagus: So I'm inclined to like Quark-related plotlines because the Ferengi are a lot like the goblins from Warcraft, and I freakin' love those guys. (Actually, the goblins were given Ferengi-like traits when their initial portrayal as brainless suicide bombers became a faux pas in the 00s.) Quark made Babel and Q-less watchable, so a whole episode around him ought to be great, right? Not really. He really needs to bounce his shtick off Odo to really land it right. But anyway Quark is blessed with a visit from the nagus, who is basically the trade prince goblin and played by the Toy Story dinosaur. He makes Quark into the new trade prince, and the consequences to being number one among a society of self-interested greedy assholes are obvious. Quark nearly dies in what is ultimately a meaningless stunt by the Nagus? I believe there's better Ferengi episodes to come, this one's best part was the sideplot regarding Jake and Nog, and whether their friendship is acceptable to their respective families. For some reason it never occurred to me that the Ferengi would be insular; it would seem like getting out there and making connections with other races is key to their goals of exploiting them. The rest is self-resolving rear end-pull nonsense that stretches past it's acceptable runtime, continuing this show's love of plot convenience. I've seen most of what I want to see from this season, and will skip along to the last two episodes next time.
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Oct 25, 2019 22:21
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I like the bit of Move Along Home where the gamer aliens are just "uh of course they weren't in danger, it's a game, you morons".
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Oct 25, 2019 22:24
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King Burgundy posted:I'm going to be the odd person out in this thread. I'm interested in hearing about what you and your family like about them, I'm not solely interested in hearing people trash it. What draws you to STD and how do you think it compares to the classic serieses?
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Oct 25, 2019 22:31
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Grand Fromage posted:I like the bit of Move Along Home where the gamer aliens are just "uh of course they weren't in danger, it's a game, you morons". I liked that Sisko was not willing to just accept that without argument.
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Oct 25, 2019 22:44
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I do enjoy that the Culture novels explore the idea of the Dyson-sphere-like Orbitals things a lot better than Star Trek ever did. Granted, the Orbitals are more like Halo's ring worlds than actual Niven's Ringworlds, but whatev. The very fact that the Dyson sphere as depicted in Trek as an actual sphere instead of a bunch of smaller objects aligned in a sphere pattern... man that fukken thing would have millions upon millions of square land mileage more than the surface area of like all of the federation planets combined. That's insane. But yeah, let's forget about it forever guysz. edit - at least Trek brought the Dyson sphere concept to popular culture. I got to hand it to them for that. I wonder how many young nerds first learned of that idea through that episode.
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Oct 25, 2019 23:07
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piratepilates posted:I'm interested in hearing about what you and your family like about them, I'm not solely interested in hearing people trash it. What draws you to STD and how do you think it compares to the classic serieses? Hmmm. I just took a poll of the family to give you the full picture. The 10 year old likes TOS/TNG the best so far of the original stuff(His rating is based on watching only the best TOS episodes and all movies, but we watched all but the most sexist Troi episodes of TNG and are watching every episode of DS9). DS9 hasn't yet eclipsed them for him. And even though we are only watching the best Voyager episodes while going through the chronology, as of season 2 where we are at, it isn't even on the map. He likes Discovery the best of them all because of how good it looks, if we are being honest, but he also thought it had the most depth. The wife is a life long fan whose favorite of the old stuff is TNG. She also now places Discovery as her new favorite. For her, one of the biggest factors is the Sci Fi concepts they've explored are new and interesting for her. She loves the stuff they did with the mycelial network, the tardigrade, etc and how it raised new questions to think about and discuss in an existing property she was previously familiar with. She loves the Kelpiens and think they are one of the most interesting races that Trek has introduced. She thinks the concept of introducing a Trek that isn't following the Captain as the main character, at least so far, was an interesting and necessary change. Lastly, she just loves all the actors. She initially jumped on board for Jason Isaacs, Doug Jones and Michelle Yeoh, but she's fallen in love with all the mains at this point. --- DS9 is still my favorite. It has been interesting rewatching it because I really didn't expect it to hold up, but it totally does. I've even been loving a lot of the episodes that people hate, because they are still just so fun in their own way(even Move Along Home). I just love watching those actors playing those characters so much. I love watching these characters grow. Even back in the pilot, it was just so well crafted to tell you everything you need to know about what the show will be. TNG is probably still my second favorite trek. Discovery is in third. The places where Discovery is excelling, it is really excelling in. I do really like the stories they are doing, for the most part. I do love the actors and characters that they are willing to show us. It was really fun to revisit things like the Enterprise and Pike in the original series era. But I recognize many of the weaknesses that others point out. For me the biggest flaw is just not letting the characters just live/interact more outside of latest season wide crisis. In order for Discovery to move up the rankings for me, that is one of the biggest changes that is going to need to happen in future seasons. I have hopes for that in the new season. It certainly seems like they are giving themselves the space for that now that we are far in the future in a universe we no longer recognize. Ideally we'd now get at least a little more episodic stuff to go with our ongoing season/show arcs. Like obviously arc heavy is where my preferences lean given my love of DS9, but it needs space to breathe.
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Oct 25, 2019 23:32
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King Burgundy posted:we watched all but the most sexist Troi episodes of TNG So none but the one where she gets to be a badass Romulan infiltrator? The way Troi/Crusher get sidelined is the part of TNG that comes across the worst watching it now. I'm sure it did at the time but I was a child and therefore dumb. DS9 isn't perfect but so much better, it's amazing that it was happening at the same time. E: What's the most sexist Trek episode? Has to be Turnabout Intruder, right? Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 23:53
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Grand Fromage posted:So none but the one where she gets to be a badass Romulan infiltrator? Hah. Yeah, we leaned towards watching over not watching. So we even watched the Crusher bones a ghost episode and the Troi is spontaneously pregnant from a light ball episode(and used it as a lesson to talk about the lack of agency the men on the show were treating her character with). I think we skipped like 3 Troi specific episodes, though I don't recall what they were specifically at this point. It is possible they were also Lwaxana episodes. I'd glance at the netflix episode description or read an online synopsis and just nope past it. It is really sad that they weren't given more to work with. That badass Romulan infiltrator episode was great, for example.
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Oct 26, 2019 00:12
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King Burgundy posted:
Of all the things I don't like in Discovery, this is the one that I just don't understand their reasoning for*. Going to the future is a decision that makes enough sense that I wouldn't hold it against them if they just had a scene with a character saying directly to the camera "yeah we're just going to try again with something that makes sense". They clearly have a lot of ideas, and most of those ideas just clash with the setting being a time period that not only are we intimately familiar with, but also wrapped up in the production of a campy TV show made 50 years ago. I do hope that the future lets them at least have the space to carve out their own identity and find a path that works for them. * because Bryan Fuller wanted to do an anthology through different eras, but left before filming started but after it was too late to do a course correct, I think?
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Oct 26, 2019 00:12
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jeeves posted:edit - at least Trek brought the Dyson sphere concept to popular culture. I got to hand it to them for that. I wonder how many young nerds first learned of that idea through that episode. I'll admit that I'm a dumb dumb and whenever I thought about Dyson spheres I would think "But wouldn't everyone on the inside burn up from being so close to the sun?" and watching through TNG made me realize that Dyson Spheres don't have that problem because they are biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig.
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Oct 26, 2019 00:29
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Cat Army
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marktheando posted:Incorrect. If, when reading this post, you didn't hear the TOS computer shouting at Harry Mudd, then I pity you
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Oct 26, 2019 02:40
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Also the waiter is probably fully empowered to tell a guest who's being an rear end in a top hat to them to get the gently caress out. What's the worst that can happen? It's not like our hellworld where they might not be able to make rent if they get fired or decide to quit. This, and not having to work for a boss who's an rear end in a top hat, are the two biggest factors in how I could totally see it being a thing people would do for fun.
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Oct 26, 2019 04:42
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Dessel posted:Talking of episodic nature of the show I have to comment on S06E4 "Relics", where I feel it's kind of preposterous that they find a Dyson sphere, which is even commented by Scotty to be marvelous work of engineering, and it's never explored again in the franchise again even though you could (maybe wrongly) argue that civilization is/was more advanced than anything within the Federation. There was a novel where they (starfleet) went back to the Dyson Sphere! They actually had a ship manned entirely by Horta starfleet officers to explore it, since they were naturally evolved to explore from the inside-out or something like that, and got trapped inside, but were totally chill about it because they live for, like, a thousand years, so exploring the sphere for a few years was like winning the lottery. I read it a loooooong time ago, so I don't remember all the details, but those stand out for me.
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Oct 26, 2019 04:47
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The Troi/Ryker romance never really felt that deep to me. It starts out with the weirdest drat thing with Troi having a telepathic connection to Ryker in the first episode, and I don't think that ever is important or relevant, and then it only ever comes up as Ryker being weird about every romance Troi gets involved in, while Troi doesn't care at all about Ryker sleeping around the galaxy. All the main cast of TNG are weird about sex and romance and can't manage to hold relationships together for longer than a week, which is kind of the natural state of episodic status quo shows where the main cast is sexually active but single. Dessel posted:they find a Dyson sphere, which is even commented by Scotty to be marvelous work of engineering, and it's never explored again in the franchise again even though you could (maybe wrongly) argue that civilization is/was more advanced than anything within the Federation. Reminds me of how in Mass Effect, there was a whole civilization that uploaded itself into a big computer and was discovered when they hijacked somebody's body. They were never relevant at all, just a weird story off in the corner of the codex (or Cerberus News?) and was never referenced anywhere else. It's frustrating for when you want a coherent universe, but I feel like a few impossibly amazing stories just kinda lurking off in a corner gives some nice texture to a place full of possibility. Although it would be nice for more loose ends to get picked up. Every Trek crew should have a swarm of grumpy academics following the havoc they left in their path, like that one woman for whom the one-off alien threat crystal entity was her white whale that consumed her entire life.
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Oct 26, 2019 04:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:It starts out with the weirdest drat thing with Troi having a telepathic connection to Ryker in the first episode, and I don't think that ever is important or relevant, and then it only ever comes up as Ryker being weird about every romance Troi gets involved in, while Troi doesn't care at all about Ryker sleeping around the galaxy. I thought they made it pretty clear that they were exes.
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Oct 26, 2019 04:58
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I swear I read somewhere that Frakes and Sirtis basically approached most episodes with the mentality that their characters were still together.
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Oct 26, 2019 05:01
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I watched the episode recently where Troi loses her empathic powers and she becomes a raging bitch to everyone Like the character really doesn't come off well from that since as soon as she can't feel others' feelings she just gives up and refuses to take the advice of others that she can still do her job without those powers. When you watch episodes like that it really underscores the comments from Berman/Braga/etc that they did not know what to do with her as a character.
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Oct 26, 2019 05:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:I watched the episode recently where Troi loses her empathic powers and she becomes a raging bitch to everyone It's even worse because she revealed in an earlier episode that she went to school to be a therapist. gently caress all that training, it's unusable now that she can't figure out a person's emotional state without her space magic.
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Oct 26, 2019 06:12
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SMH if you don't know about Sex Trek: The Next Penetration http://www.iafd.com/title.rme/title=sex+trek+1/year=1990/sex-trek-1.htm
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Oct 26, 2019 08:28
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Powered Descent posted:At some point, we lost the tradition of clever names for porn parodies, and they all just became [NAME OF THING]: the XXX parody. I guess it's more google-able or something that way, but it's still kind of sad. This is where I mention that the highest grossing porn parody of all time is Bitanic.
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Oct 26, 2019 08:46
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The Hunt for Pink October and Edward Penishands.
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Craptacular! posted:I've seen most of what I want to see from this season, and will skip along to the last two episodes next time. When you binge any of the Trek shows I feel the "focus" is on the same character a few times in a row. I don't remember noticing when they were originally on, I guess having a week between each episode helps you to forget.
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Oct 26, 2019 10:05
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Taear posted:When you binge any of the Trek shows I feel the "focus" is on the same character a few times in a row. I don't remember noticing when they were originally on, I guess having a week between each episode helps you to forget.
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Oct 26, 2019 10:51
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jeeves posted:edit - at least Trek brought the Dyson sphere concept to popular culture. I got to hand it to them for that. I wonder how many young nerds first learned of that idea through that episode. Allen Steele had an interesting take on the concept with Hex.
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Oct 26, 2019 10:55
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Nessus posted:I also don't think they usually played them in order, other than the occasional two-parters (and you'll notice these are pretty rare). Part of the idea was that they'd be going to syndicated stations who could just plug in a Star Trek whenever. Nowadays this seems nuts because we're so used to streaming and such. It doesn't work like that in the UK and we did have them on in mostly order. No "syndication" or etc here.
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Oct 26, 2019 11:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:I watched the episode recently where Troi loses her empathic powers and she becomes a raging bitch to everyone To be fair, to her species it wouldn't be "magic powers" so much as like, losing a limb. She shouldn't be expected to function perfectly fine without them. Of course, better writing would've leaned into that, as most of the time she was just a human who pressed a magic button once in a while.
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Oct 26, 2019 13:16
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Sir Lemming posted:To be fair, to her species it wouldn't be "magic powers" so much as like, losing a limb. She shouldn't be expected to function perfectly fine without them. Of course, better writing would've leaned into that, as most of the time she was just a human who pressed a magic button once in a while. But they make a point of saying she's fully educated and qualified for her job. There's lots of therapists in the real world who aren't half-Betazoid yet do their jobs quite well. Basically, the crutch she's been using to do her job on easy mode is gone. (Also, probably a welcome absence during treatments with Barclay.) Also her "magic button" is usually on the level of a "no duh" button when she reveals such arcane, eldritch mysteries like "the Romulan is planning a betrayal" or "the shifty-looking guy is hiding something." 90% of her role on the bridge could have been handled by Data if he uploaded software packages for voice stress analysis and body language analysis (Alpha and Beta quadrant races). Or the writers could have just assumed that th audience pays a modicum of attention, but this is a show starting in the late 80s so I can't fault them for that.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:24
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Admiralty Flag posted:90% of her role on the bridge could have been handled by Data Tbf this is true of every character with the possible exception of Picard
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Oct 26, 2019 17:36
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Craptacular! posted:Time for more "casual watches DS9" impressions. If you've read this thread I assume you know it but do not skip S1E19 Duet, definitely the best S1 DS9 episode and probably one of the top ten Star Trek episodes period.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:41
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I'd also make a case for "In the Hands of the Prophets". Great episode, and first appearance of Winn.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:44
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Why do people always recommend skipping anything, let alone whole seasons? They're not making more Star Trek. Enjoy what you got and complain about the bad in here.
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Oct 26, 2019 18:48
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Bad Trek always contains Good Trek, and vice versa.
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Oct 26, 2019 18:55
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Even outright bad episodes will often contain awesome scenes, like that one where Data briefly grows a beard and Troi (professional therapist) just nopes out of the room because it's too funny e: What I like to do is recommend a handful of episodes that I feel are a decent representation of the quality and type of stories the show has, and then if the person likes those I tell them to go and start at the beginning.
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Oct 26, 2019 18:59
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Admiralty Flag posted:But they make a point of saying she's fully educated and qualified for her job. There's lots of therapists in the real world who aren't half-Betazoid yet do their jobs quite well. Basically, the crutch she's been using to do her job on easy mode is gone. (Also, probably a welcome absence during treatments with Barclay.) In one episode Geordi could use his visor to tell when people are lying.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:16
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Trek rankings: Great Trek (Inner Light, City on the Edge of Forever, In the Pale Moonlight etc.) Bad Trek (Threshold, Outrageous Okona, The Last Outpost, Spock's Brain, etc.) Good Trek Boring Trek
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Oct 26, 2019 19:18
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