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Exioce posted:The ROI on housing is about 5%. A 100k house will average about 5k for the landlord after costs are taken into account. Now you cap rents, and it only brings in 2.5% of market value after costs. A fair amount of landlords will simply take the property off the rental market and sell up for a more lucrative asset class. 2.5% ROI can be had in other ways. Some will keep renting but won't have the cash for capital improvement. You've reduced the rental supply and the quality of the housing stock remains the same and eventually drops. Surely this is not a good situation? Inflating the housing market is morally wrong when it leaves an entire generation unable to buy because the prices are so high. People investing in housing and making money from renting out second homes purely for profit know, on some level, that they're reinforcing a situation that steals capital from renters. It's morally wrong and it needs to stop. You say all those landlords should be compensated, I say that a person working full time minimum wage should be able to afford at the very least a flat that they will eventually own. The only way that's going to happen is if house prices fall and a labour government takes action against people owning second houses, especially where they are renting them out for hundreds, sometimes thousands of pounds profit per month. Ultimately we both have an expectation of fairness, it's just that bizarrely yours leans heavily in favour of the landlords. Why do you have so much sympathy for them? Also for clarity, exactly what do you mean by you pay the bank? Do the bank own the house? Do they transfer it to a private landlord? Or are you talking about a mortgage? E: oh! Dog: 
Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 02:36
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Exioce posted:Perhaps I have simply lived long enough to see what happens to idealists and their unshakable convictions, and what becomes of the leaders of these movements. We used to scoff at the oldies. We had more information than they ever did. The fire in our bellies burned hotter. We and those who led us would remain ideologically pure and were going to build Utopia. Didn't quite work out that way. You may yet be the ones who will never 'sell out' and thereby go on to achieve your dreams for society. But this pattern has played out before, countless times. The end is a virtual given. I'm just being an Old Guy advising others to moderate their expectations, I guess, and I don't expect anyone to actually pay any heed. Why would you, when we didn't? So what age are you? You sound like the most Gen X guy imaginable. When was anyone who could remotely be called an idealist even close to power? Please tell me you are not talking about Nick Clegg.
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Oct 28, 2019 02:39
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Odds of a December 12th election are 95% now.
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Oct 28, 2019 02:42
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Chuka Umana posted:Odds of a December 12th election are 95% now. Yeah if they've got Macron to stop being a prick and offer us three months it's, well, I would say "all but certain" but in this timeline 95% is as high as I'm willing to go on something as reliable as the sun rising in the east so, you know, it's fairly probable.
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Oct 28, 2019 03:06
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Ms Adequate posted:Yeah if they've got Macron to stop being a prick and offer us three months it's, well, I would say "all but certain" but in this timeline 95% is as high as I'm willing to go on something as reliable as the sun rising in the east so, you know, it's fairly probable. The Guardian is saying they've already granted the three month extension with earlier withdrawal on the first day of the month after they pass the bill (December 1st, January 1st). https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/27/brexit-eu-prepares-grant-uk-three-month-extension quote:The EU is preparing to sign off on a Brexit extension to 31 January 2020 with an option for the UK to leave earlier if a deal is ratified, according to a leaked draft of the agreement seen by the Guardian.
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Oct 28, 2019 03:10
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Exioce posted:The ROI on housing is about 5%. A 100k house will average about 5k for the landlord after costs are taken into account. Now you cap rents, and it only brings in 2.5% of market value after costs. A fair amount of landlords will simply take the property off the rental market and sell up for a more lucrative asset class. 2.5% ROI can be had in other ways. Some will keep renting but won't have the cash for capital improvement. You've reduced the rental supply and the quality of the housing stock remains the same and eventually drops. Surely this is not a good situation? Who does the house get sold to? Honestly, it's a very simple question but you're missing something about it. The "rental supply" goes down? Does somebody who was previously renting now have enough money to buy a house? Does the house get bought by another landlord? By the council for use as social housing? Does the house simply cease to exist? All that happens when a landlord sells a house is that landlord ceases to make money they haven't earned through ownership of capital. The house still exists for somebody to live in. Either somebody who was previously renting can buy it (because hey, guess what happens to house prices when all the landlords start selling up), another landlord buys it (so the "rental supply" hasn't decreased) or maybe the government could buy it and use it as social housing, which is good. Renters are always paying more than the mortgage cost for a house, otherwise the landlord wouldn't bother with it. Why not cut out the landlord, have the renter pay the mortgage directly, saving them money, and own the house. "Rental supply" isn't a thing. Housing supply is a thing. That doesn't change unless houses sit empty. Landlords force people to rent who could otherwise own directly. The house still exists and is available for people to live in if a landlord sells it. Making money from restricting the supply of something people need to live should not be a thing. Speculation on foodstuffs to make profit, driving up the price for people who actually have to eat food to live should not be a thing. Ever-increasing property/land prices should not be a thing. Profiting from water should not be a thing. A small handful of people getting rich in ways which lead directly to other people suffering in poverty (whether landlords or business-owners who pay their workers poorly) should not be a thing. Landlords can get to gently caress. There would not be a single bad thing about all the landlords suddenly getting their property seized, unless you're a landlord, in which case you can get to gently caress. Landlords and others who profit from ownership of capital always talk about the "risk" involved in having investments, but if there's ever any talk of their investment properties going down in value they get all lovely about it and start threatening to "sell up and then people won't have anywhere to live". Most convince themselves that they're benevolently providing a service for people and that without them in the middle nobody would have anywhere to live. They can all gently caress off. And so can you. I'll repeat again, housing does not cease to exist when landlords cease to own it. Unless they loving dynamite it. As a related personal anecdote, I recently sold a house in the UK and moved to Canada. I was paying a little over £500/month on my mortgage for the place. It was a 2-bed coach-house in Milton Keynes which I payed £164k for in 2012 - actually still somewhat affordable for a single person who's on a somewhat above-average wage, but still well outside of the top tax bracket (I was earning £34k when I bought it). I sold it in 2019 for £230k. That's ridiculous for one thing. Who bought it? A landlord. I wanted to sell to somebody who would live in it but the girl who was going to buy it pulled out (because she found somewhere with a garden) so I had to sell to a landlord. I don't feel good about making a profit on it, frankly, but I'm still just a worker who has never earnt enough to be in the upper tax bracket, and I'm 34 years old without a pension or investments, so I have to look after myself to some extent. Besides, if I had sold it for cheaper it's not as if a landlord would charge any less to rent it. What did the landlord do once he'd bought it? Put it on the market literally the next day, unfurnished, unimproved, literally untouched apart from maybe to go in for 10 minutes, check the condition of the place and that the appliances/utilities were working, for £900 a month not including any bills. So before you come in with any "Ah yes but landlords improve properties" you can gently caress off with that poo poo, too. They often don't. In fact very often they're not actually fit for human habitation but they get let out anyway. WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 04:06
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Chuka Umana posted:The Guardian is saying they've already granted the three month extension with earlier withdrawal on the first day of the month after they pass the bill (December 1st, January 1st). That they will grant - if they grant it on Tuesday it is still after the vote. Any excuse would do at this point And lo: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/27/labour-agree-election-boris-johnson-never-pursue-no-deal-brexit-jeremy-corbyn quote:Labour will only agree to support a general election if Boris Johnson promises he will never pursue a no-deal Brexit, the party has said, insisting even a delay until 31 January would not be seen as sufficient reassurance. ronya fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 05:37
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That's stupid and Jeremy is being stupid. The entire country is waiting for this election, just get over with it already.
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Oct 28, 2019 05:57
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Did you fuckers Brexit yet?
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Oct 28, 2019 06:12
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quote:John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, also rejected the plan in a tweet, saying: “Stunt by the Lib Dems & SNP this morning looks like it’s come a cropper with Johnson stealing idea for own purposes. Specifically that tweet https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1188490511419691008
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Oct 28, 2019 06:27
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Nothingtoseehere posted:That's stupid and Jeremy is being stupid. The entire country is waiting for this election, just get over with it already. Yeah idk what he wants here, there's no way he'll ever get such an assurance from Boris and even if he did, why would anyone trust it? The best we can do in the current situation is extension to Jan 31st -> Election. Either Boris gets a Parliament that will let him Brexit however he wants, or he doesn't. That said it's not like Corbyn hasn't previously done something I can't understand only for a week later it to be revealed as a blinder that cuts the Tory's legs out from under them.
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Oct 28, 2019 06:27
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Eschenique posted:Did you fuckers Brexit yet? If Brexit actually happens, unless the government has found the clarity to agree a customs union and free movement, I'm claiming my Irish passport and will immediately begin working out how to disown my British one.
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Oct 28, 2019 06:31
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What's stopping you from claiming your Irish one now
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Oct 28, 2019 06:34
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I suspect the desire is to make johnson miss the deadline before the campaign starts but I don't really know that it matters given that him missing it a couple of days into it doesn't seem that different.
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Oct 28, 2019 06:35
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WhatEvil posted:
Lol, the landlord who bought my old flat did EXACTLY the same thing. He even reused the photos from when I was selling the place, the lazy cheapskate. As for that big post by Exioce, is there a word for the sort of outlook they display throughout it? I mean the total lack of curiosity about why things are the way they are, coupled with a firm belief that any attempt to change it would be wrong, dangerous and impractical. I see it all the time when people write articles saying: "Hey, 'x' situation could be improved, why don't we make it better?" and the comments below the line talk exactly like Exioce does.
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Oct 28, 2019 06:37
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Pistol_Pete posted:As for that big post by Exioce, is there a word for the sort of outlook they display throughout it? I mean the total lack of curiosity about why things are the way they are, coupled with a firm belief that any attempt to change it would be wrong, dangerous and impractical. I see it all the time when people write articles saying: "Hey, 'x' situation could be improved, why don't we make it better?" and the comments below the line talk exactly like Exioce does. 
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Oct 28, 2019 06:40
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ronya posted:What's stopping you from claiming your Irish one now I could. It just costs money and inconveniences some poor admin worker in dublin.
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Oct 28, 2019 06:42
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"liberalism"
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Oct 28, 2019 06:43
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Endjinneer posted:Good post Azza Bamboo posted:I could. It just costs money and inconveniences some poor admin worker in dublin. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 07:16
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Exioce posted:Perhaps I have simply lived long enough to see what happens to idealists and their unshakable convictions, and what becomes of the leaders of these movements. We used to scoff at the oldies. We had more information than they ever did. The fire in our bellies burned hotter. We and those who led us would remain ideologically pure and were going to build Utopia. Didn't quite work out that way. You may yet be the ones who will never 'sell out' and thereby go on to achieve your dreams for society. But this pattern has played out before, countless times. The end is a virtual given. I'm just being an Old Guy advising others to moderate their expectations, I guess, and I don't expect anyone to actually pay any heed. Why would you, when we didn't? i will take ur house and sex it
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Oct 28, 2019 07:27
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Exioce posted:The ROI on housing is about 5%. A 100k house will average about 5k for the landlord after costs are taken into account. Now you cap rents, and it only brings in 2.5% of market value after costs. A fair amount of landlords will simply take the property off the rental market and sell up for a more lucrative asset class. 2.5% ROI can be had in other ways. Some will keep renting but won't have the cash for capital improvement. You've reduced the rental supply and the quality of the housing stock remains the same and eventually drops. Surely this is not a good situation? Who exactly are the landlords going to sell this now less profitable asset class to? In the scenario where the government is imposing strict controls like this, the only real possibilities are other landlords (in which case supply remains the same) or the people trying to live in those houses (in which case demand falls in proportion to the fall in supply). Moreover a mass sell off would hugely decrease the price of housing, which you may note is a good thing.
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Oct 28, 2019 07:30
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Exioce posted:For the vast majority of human history we've been hunter gatherers, killing each other over land when deemed necessary by one party or the other. The concept of possession is innate to us, as it is to pretty much every complex organism. yes like when the first vertebrates looked into each others' eyes and said "i need access to ur vagina for below-market prices"
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Oct 28, 2019 07:34
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Pistol_Pete posted:Lol, the landlord who bought my old flat did EXACTLY the same thing. He even reused the photos from when I was selling the place, the lazy cheapskate. so what you're saying here is you were too lazy to become a landlord
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Oct 28, 2019 07:37
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God I can't wait for the effects of this property hoarding old fart class to reach critical mass such that everyone under forty kills and eats them.
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Oct 28, 2019 07:42
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God, gently caress daylight savings. Already seeing the difference of winter time, it's almost dusk out before I've even left for work, instead of being full night until after I'm at work Course, that'll only help for a few weeks until it's just dark all the time, but honestly having more of that in September and October would help my mood.
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Oct 28, 2019 07:43
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mehall posted:God, gently caress daylight savings. have you considered moving south of your current location
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Oct 28, 2019 07:44
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GreyjoyBastard posted:so what you're saying here is you were too lazy to become a landlord I lacked the landlord's moral courage to selflessly provide housing to others 
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Oct 28, 2019 07:44
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Sigh some idiot (ok probably mentally ill but there are better ways to cry for help) has scaled the local 100m high Victorian chimney, 2 helicopters are circling, over my house, have been since 5am. Grand.
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Oct 28, 2019 07:53
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One can admire Corbyn in many ways, as I do, without regarding him as an arch realist. If he isn’t a stubborn fantasist, he is an idealist. He has convictions for which he has fought, until recently from the wilderness, since not long after LBJ rammed the Civil Rights Act through congress. You needn’t be a close student of the law of unintended consequences to sense that what seriously threatens those beliefs is him remaining to fight for them. The familiar objection to replacing a leader this close to an election is the absence of a natural successor. In this case, John McDonnell is oven ready. I appreciate McDonnell’s insistence that the next Labour leader must be female, but this is an epic national emergency. We are weeks from an election highly likely to saddle us with five years of a possibly sociopathic rogue, his cabinet confederacy of dunces, and a more brutal Brexit than this country can bear.
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Oct 28, 2019 07:54
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Oct 28, 2019 07:57
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Seems fitting for the bridge to westminster.
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Oct 28, 2019 08:08
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looks like a pretty good sex life
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Oct 28, 2019 08:28
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Source ur quotes Seriously, I wanna know which disingenuous Graun gently caress is claiming they'd play nice with John loving McDonnel at the helm
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Oct 28, 2019 08:34
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1188387687486631938?s=20 Oh so suddenly it's easy to find a seat on the train when you want a nap, eh Jeremy? Or alternatively: Sleeping at the wheel, just like he will if he becomes Prime Minister. Which of these should I tweet to impress my FriendBPEs?
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Oct 28, 2019 08:35
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Not really being discussed,but Bercow is retiring at the worst possible time, because who knows what the gently caress is going to happen on November 1st. Edit: I mean, just imagine it’s Edward Gammon Leigh! Pesmerga fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 08:48
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Housing isn't a homogeneous cake-mix and the substitution between rental housing and non-rental housing is by unit size and market type - younger people rent smaller units near work, older households look for rooms near schools, that sort of thing. This drives where capital flows to replace or upgrade the housing stock The problem with homeowners is credit availability and property chain, which is why mainstream housing crunch measures focus on help to buy, specifically in the form of cheaper credit for first time owners. It is probably healthier, anyway, in political-economy terms, to encourage a rise of in leveraged ownership. It's the same as forced saving. It is also good to discourage net savers from sinking everything in undiversified local real estate... these kinds of things rest on keeping in mind one's Modigliani-Miller and recalling that tax changes can have a massive impact on capital structure. In 1999 Blair abolished mortgage interest tax deductibility (Thatcher's MIRAS), it was part of New Labour's wider charge to raise revenue by abolishing the sprawling web of deductibles largely available to the upper middle class, of which MIRAS was one - but MIRAS only covered owner occupiers. Mortgage landlords ('buy-to-let') remained free of tax on interest, since it is a capital expense for an investment. The wider impact on a decline in home ownership rates was not foreseen... Either way there are still people who are both too poor (on a lifetime income basis) to rent nor mortgage-purchase, nor so dysfunctional that they are the long-term homeless; that group is not really on any party's priority list nor the main subjects of this kind of housing policy tweak
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Oct 28, 2019 08:52
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Pistol_Pete posted:As for that big post by Exioce, is there a word for the sort of outlook they display throughout it? I mean the total lack of curiosity about why things are the way they are, coupled with a firm belief that any attempt to change it would be wrong, dangerous and impractical. I see it all the time when people write articles saying: "Hey, 'x' situation could be improved, why don't we make it better?" and the comments below the line talk exactly like Exioce does. Capitalist realism maybe? TINA? The end of history? While it's easy in 2019 to dunk on neoliberalism and see it as a failing ideology, the political and media classes did a very effective job selling it to the public over the past 40 years. It takes time to come out of an ideological coma. That's why I asked them what age they were. As much as I hate the idea of generational cohorts, people who came of age in the 80s and 90s often see politics as a mere personality contest between people with basically equivalent views. And that's a somewhat reasonable position to have if you are a middle class white person in the 90s and 00s. See any episode of South Park ever for examples of this. There's also people's incredibly short memory for politics and economics. Things that would be cross party consensus in the 70s were unthinkable in 2000 and are just about on the threshold today. And the idea that socialism means taking people's stuff is still shockingly widespread. As if the Boksheviks were seizing the means of production in order to make themselves unemployed. Again speaks to the fantastic job that was done by neoliberalism's marketing departement. And they're partly right too. If you own your home, have a steady income and are part of the majority ethnic and identity groups, politics has served your interest for the last 40 years. If we start helping the poor, well that means you might become just another interest group, one which is expected to bear more of a burden and you might lose the (smaller than you think) leverage you have over the government and the country. Lots of boring words to say, it's ideology and class interest.
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Oct 28, 2019 08:54
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there are strains of anti-intellectualism in every part of the political spectrum, you can see it very commonly in certain strains of anarchism and greenism ("they always think they can make something better"...). james c scott is a contemporary champion of this kind of philosophy in its liberal form it adopts the banner of romanticism, and in its conservative form there have been high tories long before there were thatcherites
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Oct 28, 2019 09:04
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Borrovan posted:Source ur quotes depends whether it's John "We’re not going to take money out of people’s pockets. Simple as that." McDonnell or another of his myriad personalities, perhaps "Comrade McDonnell" has put in a lot of effort as of late to make himself palatable to the City types ronya fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 09:07
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Borrovan posted:Source ur quotes  this guy
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Oct 28, 2019 09:10
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