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The Glumslinger posted:Its not even that loving hot, it was 75 in Marin today, it could easily be 30 degrees warmer Don't worry it will get there.
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Oct 28, 2019 01:42
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I mean sure, gently caress PG&E, and their ownership structure should probably be different. Public trust, local municipal power, whatever. But the primary problem here is that we live in a climate that evolved to burn, and its only getting hotter and drier. Insane, sprawling development has created lots wildlife urban interfaces that are going to burn when this stuff happens. I’m not at all opposed to doing things like publicly owning PG&E in one way or another. But equally important is stuff like SB50 so that future development is more sustainable and less exposed to this kind of stuff.
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Oct 28, 2019 02:02
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Kill Bristol posted:I mean sure, gently caress PG&E, and their ownership structure should probably be different. Public trust, local municipal power, whatever. No the primary problem is that PG&E has failed to maintain their equipment and perform vegetation management as they should have and instead spent that money on executive payouts and stockholder returns. Blaming this mostly on the climate is giving PG&E a huge pass. PG&E would still be murdering people even if we were not experiencing climate change.
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Oct 28, 2019 02:08
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Trabisnikof posted:No the primary problem is that PG&E has failed to maintain their equipment and perform vegetation management as they should have and instead spent that money on executive payouts and stockholder returns. Yeah was the San Bruno pipelane explosion caused by climate change? The root cause is PGE corrupt "shareholder" value focused leadership culture and they have also been actively lobbying to prevent any regulations that would affect their bottom line. Lock them up!
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Oct 28, 2019 02:18
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I am sure the 99 year old transmission line that caused the camp fire had nothing to do with climate change
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Oct 28, 2019 02:19
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the climate changed them so much that they fell right over
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Oct 28, 2019 02:34
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a privately-owned shareholder-serving utility deciding to cheap out on maintenance in order to maximize profits, and then the public bearing all of the cost of those decisions, isnt a failure of the system. its the system working as designed
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Oct 28, 2019 02:38
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The substantial amount of Sonoma County evacuating southbound would not be as much of a problem, except for the fact that even when they travel far away enough to lose site of the fire, most of the places they find are in PG&E's extensive blackout area. Locals and visitors alike scrambling to find food and shelter. SF CBS hinted that lack of lights and an unprepared generator put the kibosh on at least one Marin County shelter today.
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Oct 28, 2019 03:17
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Celexi posted:I am sure the 99 year old transmission line that caused the camp fire had nothing to do with climate change but the shareholders
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Oct 28, 2019 03:24
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Celexi posted:I am sure the 99 year old transmission line that caused the camp fire had nothing to do with climate change 99 years of being exposed to the climate changed it
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Oct 28, 2019 03:30
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they evacuated a million people for a mountain fire that's the equivalent of that flaccid penis icon. Where's the fire you ask?
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Oct 28, 2019 04:20
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winds were insane in the north valley thru sac today and there were a billion loving fires everywhere; i'd be evacuating everyone the hell out of my town if i was a fire chief, too
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Oct 28, 2019 04:30
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The thing is PG&E cut power off to that whole area this morning. If things had gone badly today, it would be really, really hard to tell them that they needed to get out.
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Oct 28, 2019 04:30
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im so fuckin thirsty for pg&e exec blood
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Oct 28, 2019 04:37
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Leperflesh posted:Generous "net metering" in which people with panels get paid per kw they feed back to the grid at the same rate they'd pay for drawing power, doesn't scale up because it ignores the cost of the infrastructure. So, after offering net metering to intice homeowners to install solar for a few years, you then use that argument to yank it back and only pay a small amount for that power. Is the small amount paid for excess house (and probably business roof) solar equivalent to what power generation companies get paid? I know I've at least heard that in California, while the amount paid is low it's supposed to be somehow related to spot market price., but I'm not too familiar with the specifics.
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Oct 28, 2019 05:47
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This is all gray davis' fault.
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Oct 28, 2019 07:15
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:This is all gray davis' fault. gray davis is very much a microcosm of democrats deciding they need to be moderate compromisers between business and the public and then immediately eating poo poo because of it
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Oct 28, 2019 09:46
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Sitting around with no power, waiting to hear if you're in an evac zone sucks. I'm glad the winds have calmed down.
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Oct 28, 2019 14:04
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Shear Modulus posted:gray davis is very much a microcosm of democrats deciding they need to be moderate compromisers between business and the public and then immediately eating poo poo because of it Yeah, I remember my friend’s dad ranting and raving at Davis for being a filthy communist and my Republican teacher going off on Davis slashing the education budget/allocating more money to prisons, both of which a Republican governor would certainly never do. Dems can be DINO as gently caress and your average Republican voter simply will never bite. Everybody loses.
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Oct 28, 2019 15:10
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Ah yes, the colorful Grey Davis as my dad liked to call him
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Oct 28, 2019 15:32
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Gray should have sent the state police to force the plants online. Woild have paved the way for nationalized energy in CA. So gray IS actually at fault for the fires
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Oct 28, 2019 15:41
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Gray should have sent the state police to force the plants online. Woild have paved the way for nationalized energy in CA. So gray IS actually at fault for the fires He apparently also at least contemplated declaring a state of emergency and sending the National Guard in to force the plants online as well. Either would have worked. Instead he sat around watching a company hijack his state for profits because he was afraid of the political blowback that could potentially come from actually doing his job. It's why Newsom saying yet another for-profit group should come in to manage the electric grid is so infuriating because it's just the exact same poo poo over again. The political environment will never be better than it is now for a state takeover, but Gavin's more afraid of the cost and the potential political ramifications down the line of having to own PG&E's mess than he is of actually improving the lives of the people who live in his state.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:46
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Sydin posted:He apparently also at least contemplated declaring a state of emergency and sending the National Guard in to force the plants online as well. Either would have worked. Instead he sat around watching a company hijack his state for profits because he was afraid of the political blowback that could potentially come from actually doing his job. It's why Newsom saying yet another for-profit group should come in to manage the electric grid is so infuriating because it's just the exact same poo poo over again. The political environment will never be better than it is now for a state takeover, but Gavin's more afraid of the cost and the potential political ramifications down the line of having to own PG&E's mess than he is of actually improving the lives of the people who live in his state. This why its so infuriating. Literally the loving fires STRAIT UP WOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED because wed have a 15 year head start on modernizing our wooden pole and metal wire electric infrastructure. Idk why Gavins so afraid i mean what are people gonna do,call him a COMMUNIST if he taked over pge? We life in commifornia. Its par for the course.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:51
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:We life in commifornia. Its par for the course. Uhh, most of the "Democrats" in California are actually republicans that look down on republicans as they control states with "lesser people".
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Oct 28, 2019 17:52
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Gavin's running for president in 4 to 8 years, unless he decides to be a senator first (depends on when feinstein finally dies), and so he wants his platform to be all good stuff like "fought for gay rights" and not muddy difficult could backfire stuff like "tried to take PG&E over, but failed" or "took PG&E over, and it backfired badly." You can expect him to take only the most calculated of risks over anything. BeAuMaN posted:Is the small amount paid for excess house (and probably business roof) solar equivalent to what power generation companies get paid? I know I've at least heard that in California, while the amount paid is low it's supposed to be somehow related to spot market price., but I'm not too familiar with the specifics. I believe so but I'm not 100% sure. Could be some complication there. But if you think about it the efficiency per kilowatt hour of generation by a large power plant is far higher than rooftop solar, so effectively a rooftop solar install being paid the same rate is much less profitable for the homeowner than the owner of a power plant. Basically, though: rooftop solar is a big win where there's lots of sun and lots of electricity usage, even if you get nothing for feeding back to the grid: but the expansion of rooftop solar complicates grid operation enormously (unexpected added power onto a grid makes it harder to manage the grid) and aggressive sales tactics by rooftop solar companies has led a lot of people to do fairly marginal installs where the years until the cost pays for itself is super dependent on net metering rates and can go from 10 years to 25 years with a single change by the state... and those changes are inevitable in any state where rooftop solar is expanding significantly. Unless you think the state or a utility is going to treat net metering as a lossmaking subsidy for rooftop solar indefinitely even as profits for the utility dwindle. Which might even be good policy in some states, I dunno. But we've yet to see it and I'm skeptical we ever will. Utilities are going to go to their regulators and show the fairly straighforward math of how the upward trend of rooftop solar forces a downward trend in revenue but also an upward trend in grid management costs, and the inevitable point where the lines all cross and the utility is bankrupt, and regulators are unlikely to make the choice of "welp OK the state will start subsidizing the utility at an ever-increasing payout at that point."
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Oct 28, 2019 18:01
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e. ^^^ Also this really can't be overstated enough. Gavin didn't run for Governor because he has a grand vision to make California a better place. He did it because he has his eyes set on the WH and wants to use a successful run as Governor as a springboard to that goal. He'll pick up a liberal notch here or there to boost his resume, but he's not going to take any huge risks or rock the boat too much in ways that it could either backfire, or freak out the DNC by making him look too far to the left. He's afraid that he's going to get California tied up in a lengthy battle to blow the state budget surplus on buying out PG&E, then have the state be left holding the metaphorical bag of crumbling infrastructure that's going to take a huge a mount of time and money to fix, all while mandatory blackouts are still probably going to be needed and fires are still going to be sparked by failing infrastructure for the foreseeable future, except now the finger can be pointed at Newsom instead of PG&E. Everybody is onboard now sure, but in two years when the totality of California's power grid hasn't been completely and miraculously fixed and a tower fails and ignites a wildfire, Republicans will be lining up to yell at anybody who'll listen about how Gavin wasted our surplus on a boondoggle, and this is just proof that the free market needs to be left alone from BIG GOVERNMENT OVERREACH, etc etc. Now, are any of these legitimate reasons for Gavin to not do the right thing and utilize every available resource he has to bring PG&E under the control of those who are at least in theory answerable to the people and start the process of maintenance and repair that no for-profit firm would reasonably take up but is necessary and so must ultimately be done by the state at some point? No, but that's his reasoning. Sydin fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 18:03
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Also any Newsom run for federal office is going to be bankrolled by wealthy investors and he doesn't want to piss off the money class by nationalizing one of their cash pinatas. To make them happy he needs to get the money flowing again for a few financial quarters, not actually fix the infrastructure.
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Oct 28, 2019 20:17
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have gavin newsom and tom steyer ever been seen in the same room at the same time
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Oct 28, 2019 20:20
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in other political news, i ran into a cool Nancy Tung supporter in my neighborhood yesterday while dropping off pamphlets for Chesa Boudin. these are both people running for DA of SF, and without going into the full breakdown, Chesa is the public defender who ended cash bail, whereas Nancy is famous for defending the murderers of Mario Woods. my neighbor told me, among other pleasant things, that his AR-15 was his plan for criminal justice. so, don't let people tell you san francisco is a liberal bubble, stay safe out there, and if you live in SF vote early and often for the one not-hosed-up DA candidate. or at least don't put Suzy Loftus in your rankings, she's the shitter who has a chance to win.
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Oct 28, 2019 20:53
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If I still lived in California I'd entertain the idea of running for office on the sole platform of "gently caress PG&E in the rear end" and see how many votes I'd get.
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Oct 28, 2019 22:15
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I just called my State Senator, my Assemblywoman, and the Governor to express my support for public ownership of the power grid, and so can you!
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Oct 28, 2019 23:26
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VikingofRock posted:I just called my State Senator, my Assemblywoman, and the Governor to express my support for public ownership of the power grid, and so can you! Yep! Don't know who your California State Senator or Assembly Member is? Here's a handy link! - http://www.legislature.ca.gov/legislators_and_districts/legislators/your_legislator.html
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Oct 28, 2019 23:34
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Unfortunately, both of mine are useless. Steven Choi & John Moorlach. Steven Choi especially so. Can't wait to vote against them.
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Oct 29, 2019 01:15
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Shear Modulus posted:have gavin newsom and tom steyer ever been seen in the same room at the same time
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Oct 29, 2019 01:50
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Bizarro Watt posted:If I still lived in California I'd entertain the idea of running for office on the sole platform of "gently caress PG&E in the rear end" and see how many votes I'd get. all of them. you would get all of the votes
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Oct 29, 2019 02:07
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Looking forward to Gavbot running as the succ favorite in 2028 and getting annihilated in the primaries by Vice President Turner.
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Oct 29, 2019 02:10
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Bizarro Watt posted:If I still lived in California I'd entertain the idea of running for office on the sole platform of "gently caress PG&E in the rear end" and see how many votes I'd get. I believe Benicia elected a mayor solely on the platform of "I'm going to sue the gently caress out of Chevron."
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Oct 29, 2019 02:27
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Leperflesh posted:I believe so but I'm not 100% sure. Could be some complication there. But if you think about it the efficiency per kilowatt hour of generation by a large power plant is far higher than rooftop solar, so effectively a rooftop solar install being paid the same rate is much less profitable for the homeowner than the owner of a power plant. Have you read anything on how much more expensive it is to manage the grid from a bunch of rooftop solar (from combined residential and commercial) compared to a dedicated power plants? Since I mean California really has peak sun in a lot of areas in the state (even if rooftop panels on residential aren't installed at the most efficient angles for maximum solar capture), and there's a lot of that peak sun during the hot months while there's also peak electricity demand (from everyone running ACs) which we use booster plants to meet that demand afaik. Seems like at least during those months it would be a win-win; especially utilizing marginal space to boot. I ask since you seem to be well read on the topic. Though yeah from my pv install and pv design classes (part of the electrical program here, though we didn't cover anything about the utility end stuff) if someone was dumping money to buy a residential system the math didn't pan out from a purely financial point (compared to... I think it was investing in CD accounts or bonds or whatever) unless they had a lot of household energy consumption, though obviously people aren't just motivated by financial concerns. At least the panels these days seem better and the installation practices and options also seem better (Lots of panels wired in series when I did that class which was terrible for partial shade, and a lot more plug and play now), though I never looked back on if that turned into a better deal for consumers or not. And yeah screw the aggressive panel pushers.
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Oct 29, 2019 03:08
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BeAuMaN posted:Thanks for that. Can't say I've read a ton, but just consider this: transmission happens at high and then medium voltages, with stepdown transformers wherever the utility needs to go from the higher to the lower voltage. In a world where everyone is either a power company or a power consumer, you can consider the flow of electricity to always be one-way through all those transformers. As soon as anything on a grid is feeding power back into the line, either it's consumed by a neighbor on the same line, or possibly the entire local circuit is now backwards and trying to feed power back into a stepdown transformer. Can the transformer and its attached electronics handle this? Also, think about what happens when there's work to be done on a line. The worker climbs the pole and shuts off a circuit feeding a few houses. OK, now it's safe to work downstream of the shutoff. Right? OOOPS NOPE because someone's got solar (or is running a generator and installed it wrong, that's a real danger too). So your procedures for doing scheduled work on any line now have to include additional safety measures to ensure nobody gets unexpectedly zapped, and that means more costs. quote:
Panels are getting more efficient, too, and some people are installing batteries to store their excess consumption. On the other hand there are so many pushy solar companies and the normal model of financing an install for 20 years or more is loving people over in several ways. One is that the contract often leaves them responsible for all the costs when they need to do a roof repair or replacement. Another is that the property may be encumbered by a lien which makes selling the house more difficult (buyer has to take over or pay off the solar loan). As a homeowner I used to get calls weekly from different solar companies trying to push me into buying - my wife I don't have kids, and we have a gas water heater, gas dryer, and gas stove, so we don't use much power unless the A/C is running (which needs to be replaced soon, a new one will be much more efficient) and our roof will need to be replaced in the next 5-8 years so I already know it's a bad idea for us - but the sheer proliferation and aggressive sales tactics say everything about how many marginal installs are happening. If it was a huge money-saver, they wouldn't need to market like that, the customers would be seeking them out.
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Oct 29, 2019 05:02
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Leperflesh posted:Can't say I've read a ton, but just consider this: transmission happens at high and then medium voltages, with stepdown transformers wherever the utility needs to go from the higher to the lower voltage. In a world where everyone is either a power company or a power consumer, you can consider the flow of electricity to always be one-way through all those transformers. Solar doesn't really contribute to that as a problem. In the US, if the grid isn't within a certain voltage and frequency range, solar can't produce unless you have a transfer switch that can disconnect from the grid and island and all solar inverters sold in the US have to be compliant with that. If the grid goes down, it's out of range and solar will turn off. California goes further than the general US standards with their smart inverter rules which add a bunch of additional requirements like that solar inverters have to be able to provide reactive power to aid the utility with lowering grid voltage if it's getting too high, that they take longer to power up after the grid was down, a whole bunch of other things. California also requires that if you want to install solar and it goes over the local transformer's ability to handle all solar connected to it feeding back at once if the smart inverter functions fail, that either you or your contractor are on the hook to pay for upgrading that transformer.
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Oct 29, 2019 06:08
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