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An interesting passage from the supplemental materials, The case for reparations in the tulsa massacre " And so this evil exists on anactive and unbroken continuum of history, its degrading effects felt at all points at once. By rehearing this case, we create for ourselves an opportunity to begin asking if adjudicating matters such as these asks us to reconsider linear constructs of time (an obsolete notion that informs almost all of our laws) and adopt a quantum perpsective on justice. Beholding the destruction of Greenwood with such gaze, we glimpse a different truth. This is not a crime that ended in June of 1921, for as long as the victims of that horrific event and their direct decendents still suffer from the immense loss of property and life, the crime is still ongoing and must therefore be subject to the most strictest adherance of the law" insert quote of Dr Manhattan talking about how he sees all events simultaneously. The supplemental piece about American Hero Story is also fun if you consider it from a meta point of view "if Season 2 is anything like the inaugural season, we can expect a sensationalistic hyper-pop narrative that plays recklessly with history, proceeds from an overtly left-wing point of view, and risks alienating the fringe constituencies who regard “costumed adventurers” with problematic reverence. While there’s reason to believe the new set of episodes won’t be as provocative to vigilante profiles as Season 1, we should be wary of its cultural influence all the same. " The memo mentions a rock band doing a rerelase of of a Roscharch ispired album which contains an essay by the New Frontiersman intern who found the journal. The release date is Nov 4 which I assume means it will be in the next batch of documents on the real Nov 4. massive spider fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 16:59
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I wish I could enjoy this show like you guys but I can’t. There are some bizarre performances so far, shiny mask guy for example. This is so far removed from the watchmen comic that I have no idea what the gently caress this show even really is. It’s all over the place. I’ll keep watching but yeah idk it’s a struggle watch. At least the music is consistently great.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:06
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I wish I could enjoy this show like you guys but I can’t. There are some bizarre performances so far, shiny mask guy for example. This is so far removed from the watchmen comic that I have no idea what the gently caress this show even really is. It’s all over the place. I’ll keep watching but yeah idk it’s a struggle watch. At least the music is consistently great. To the rest of thread: sorry for posting stuff from upcoming episodes, even with spoiler text. I’ll take my leave of this thread with this, to Goobusters and the rest of the skeptics: trust Lindelof and stay with the show. This is really going to be a show that is talked about differently when you see the whole picture versus the individual parts. Lindelof knows that he can only stray so far from what people really want to see.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:11
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I wish I could enjoy this show like you guys but I can’t. There are some bizarre performances so far, shiny mask guy for example. This is so far removed from the watchmen comic that I have no idea what the gently caress this show even really is. It’s all over the place. I’ll keep watching but yeah idk it’s a struggle watch. At least the music is consistently great. Looking Glass is almost a direct analog to Rorschach. He's the most directly influenced detective by the comic books and I almost find his characterization to be a little too close to the comics/on the nose.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:17
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I wish I could enjoy this show like you guys but I can’t. There are some bizarre performances so far, shiny mask guy for example. This is so far removed from the watchmen comic that I have no idea what the gently caress this show even really is. It’s all over the place. I’ll keep watching but yeah idk it’s a struggle watch. At least the music is consistently great. I think the show is staying in alignment with the comic book. Any of the vigilantes can be as wierd or flambyoant as they want. I don't think you can put bumpers on how far they can go in their mask. e: or brooding KoRMaK fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 17:20
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ElNarez posted:you should realize that it's WW1 on account of it happens before 1921 People are dumb and forget WW1 even thought its literally called World War 2. Or they're dumb and think Nazis ran Germany then too.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:23
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Yeah Looking Glass, at least the actor who plays him is kinda giving a weird performance that I’m not sure if it works (so far). The delivery of his line “crying under this mask” or whatever was groan worthy. I’m hoping the show picks up steam. So far it’s just another lindelof mystery box show.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:26
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Raxivace posted:Lmao has anyone seen the IMDb user reviews for this show? Tons of idiots are coming out to complain that HBO has ruined Watchmen by making it "too political". No other comic inspires as much arrogant, fart wallowing gatekeeper bullshit than Watchmen does. Every one of these loving nerds with a basic understanding of literary analysis thinks theyre the arbiter of deeper meaning tasked with defending this book and Alan Moore from the pions who dont understand it and those who would seek to adapt it, an act of apparent heresey. I mean look at that goon earlier in this thread who claimed this show "doesnt really get what the books about" and gleefully declared his departure with a righteous candor, as if he was participating in some noble act of defiance by not watching this show. I went to art school in NYC at schools with prestigious illustration/comic programs and have never ever witnessed anything that inspires such obnoxious fanaticism as Watchmen does. I also started the year Snyders film came out so it was absolutely at its peak. I mentioned it earlier but I got accused of being a "scab" for supporting this show because apparently Im "forgiving a corporation for abusing Alan Moore". Anyways, I love this drat show its quite good.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:27
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Yeah Looking Glass, at least the actor who plays him is kinda giving a weird performance that I’m not sure if it works (so far). The delivery of his line “crying under this mask” or whatever was groan worthy. I’m hoping the show picks up steam. So far it’s just another lindelof mystery box show. I thought it was pretty good. He's a hard rear end. Yea he sucks at delivering any sort of emotional information, I like it - tough guy showing he felt about his boss who he probably looked upto like a dad. Which... do you think glass knows the Sherrif being a 7th calv member?
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Oct 28, 2019 17:29
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He's giving a Rorschach performance down to the disaffected tone, the uncaring dialogue (poking at Angela about her kids), suggestions of a black and white world view. That combined with him living in his mask and never taking it off is a very deliberate choice.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:33
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I always chuckle a bit when people decry fans not "getting" what a work is about, as if art is some objective written exam. To me, two episodes in, this show gets what I felt Watchmen was about even better than the slavish movie recreation.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:34
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ElNarez posted:I feel like there's a slight difference between "sympathized with the Germans" and "openly expressing approval for the activities of Hitler's Third Reich", which is the verbatim description from Watchmen #2  wtf are you talking about  Le Saboteur posted:He's giving a Rorschach performance down to the disaffected tone, the uncaring dialogue (poking at Angela about her kids), suggestions of a black and white world view. That combined with him living in his mask and never taking it off is a very deliberate choice. He's taken his mask off several times already, notably with the Chief... ...and of course the senator knows she's still a cop, that wasn't ominous at all. 
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Oct 28, 2019 17:51
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:
He specifically never fully takes it off, with the Chief he pulled it up to reveal his face but never removed it from his head I believe. There was an interview with some outlet where a production person talking about the mask commented that it was a deliberate character thing that he never fully removed the mask. Ah here it is: https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/10/28/20928667/watchmen-hbo-costume-looking-glass-mask
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Oct 28, 2019 17:53
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Le Saboteur posted:He's giving a Rorschach performance down to the disaffected tone, the uncaring dialogue (poking at Angela about her kids), suggestions of a black and white world view. That combined with him living in his mask and never taking it off is a very deliberate choice. Although looking glass really leans on Rorschach’s aesthetics, I actually kind of think they’re positioning Sister Night as more of a Rorschach figure. Between the way her investigation of Judd mirrors Rorschach and the Comedian, the urine and blood seeping from under the bathroom door in ep 1 and her self proclaimed black and white worldview in this episode I feel like there’s a pretty strong signal from the writers
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Oct 28, 2019 17:53
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:
that second quote is the verbatim from Watchmen #2, specifically from the "Under The Hood" part at the end, yeah it's the one account saying Hooded Justice was a nazi sympathizer but it's also set up in the text as a fairly authoritative account, so, I don't really know what to make of the theory that Willy was the actual Hooded Justice also, on who's the Rorschach analogue in the show: this is the second episode in a row where Angela is doing something that the actual Rorschach did in the comic (make a guy bleed in a men's bathroom in episode 1, finding a costume in a secret compartment in a closet in episode 2)
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Oct 28, 2019 18:00
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broken sm57 posted:Although looking glass really leans on Rorschach’s aesthetics, I actually kind of think they’re positioning Sister Night as more of a Rorschach figure. Between the way her investigation of Judd mirrors Rorschach and the Comedian, the urine and blood seeping from under the bathroom door in ep 1 and her self proclaimed black and white worldview in this episode I feel like there’s a pretty strong signal from the writers Yeah her story seems to be what if Rorschach reformed his views, as the White Night clearly caused her to dip into that sort of mindset. But with being introduced to Louis Gossett Jrs character she's finding the world not to be so black and white. Specifically when she was telling her kid the world was black and white she already sounded like she was trying to convince herself and not her child.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:00
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Oh I just remembered what this reminded me of. Season 2 of the wire. Season 2 has a local cop investigation, an a big FBI/CIA or federal level cop investigation. I think that, and with the previews I saw about the senator, laurie blake, the old man picking up the owlship, all feel like it's going to hit that kind of similiar story. Local vs federal investigations loving each other, while we and angela have no idea of what the whole picture is.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:01
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What’s the significance of Keene being at the chief’s house? Besides revealing that some levels of government know who is a cop. Why would a conservative senator be in on a thing like White Night? Since we’re guessing the White Night was an inside job. The name of episode 2 is the name of the painting we get a lingering zoom in on, right? Is there a hidden 7 in the picture where the camera zooms in?
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Oct 28, 2019 18:03
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Angela is parts of Rorshach for sure, violent, black and white world view, but she is less rorsash in the sense that she has personal relationships, a social life, etc. Glass was eating home alone out a tv dinner, and doesn't really seem to have relationships and of course is gruff and never takes off the mask. I'm not saying one has to be one or the other, but I just got hints of both troughout the characters
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Oct 28, 2019 18:04
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ElNarez posted:that second quote is the verbatim from Watchmen #2, specifically from the "Under The Hood" part at the end, yeah it's the one account saying Hooded Justice was a nazi sympathizer but it's also set up in the text as a fairly authoritative account, so, I don't really know what to make of the theory that Willy was the actual Hooded Justice There has to be a grain of historical context taken with the third riech statement. As nazi as the nazis were prior to december 1941, the genocides proper didn't start until after that. So being a nazi supporter prior to 1940 wasn't exactly uncommon in the US.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:10
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Aphrodite posted:Whatever it is, it's not a comic thing. Nobody in the comic has any superpowers except for Dr. Manhattan, and the existence of psychics. I always felt like Ozymandias had some sort of low grade powers. Being able to dodge and then deflect a bullet with post and then catching a bullet in his hand after taking on both Rorschach and Nite Owl with little effort on his part.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:16
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I just want Angela to HURM at some point in the series.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:19
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Always found it was weird that no psychics were masks.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:19
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Was that Robert Redford giving the warning at the start of American Hero Story? It sounded like him but I haven’t seen anything about it. It’d be cool if he cameoed as himself.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:23
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massive spider posted:The memo mentions a rock band doing a rerelase of of a Roscharch ispired album which contains an essay by the New Frontiersman intern who found the journal. The release date is Nov 4 which I assume means it will be in the next batch of documents on the real Nov 4. I chuckled at him referring to the album as “squidsploitation.”
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Oct 28, 2019 18:23
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Was that Robert Redford giving the warning at the start of American Hero Story? It sounded like him but I haven’t seen anything about it. It’d be cool if he cameoed as himself. I don't know if that was him but he is in the season as himself.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:28
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Surprised to learn from the Peteypedia info that the White Night was just under 3 years before the series. Also loved the critique of American Hero Story.tadashi posted:That was Hulk from The Wire who made an appearance last nigh? Or did he show up on a show after Watchmen and they're just all running together? This would be his 6th or 7th HBO job. That has to be some kind of record. You're not crazy, Herc popped up for one scene at the start of Mrs. Fletcher (which was enjoyable simply for putting Kathryn Hahn front and center, she's great)
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Oct 28, 2019 18:29
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10 Beers posted:I always felt like Ozymandias had some sort of low grade powers. Being able to dodge and then deflect a bullet with post and then catching a bullet in his hand after taking on both Rorschach and Nite Owl with little effort on his part. I've never bought this. It's just that he encapsulates the comic-book Batman concept of a human being at their absolute peak physical and cognitive abilities.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:31
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AccountSupervisor posted:No other comic inspires as much arrogant, fart wallowing gatekeeper bullshit than Watchmen does. I enjoyed the Watchmen graphic novel a lot, but even though we're only two episodes in, I feel like Watchmen the TV show is much more important and has much more gravitas to it than any single page of the original work.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:35
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Are we just saying mystery box as a critique of any show that doesn’t vomit out all their plot points immediately and linearly? I feel like there’s a different between mystery box and just introducing things that will be revealed later but we learn more about each episode. Right now I don’t feel like anything was shown that won’t or can’t be explained ( don’t quote this later when I’m wrong).
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Oct 28, 2019 18:38
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Nail Rat posted:Always found it was weird that no psychics were masks. Were there ever any other psychics besides the one that Veidt used for the squid? I don’t think there were - even Moloch the Mystic was just a stage magician sort of guy.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:44
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The crux of Veidt's plan was that the cloned brain of the psychic would reach out to other "sensitives" and place visions into their minds. So yeah, there's a lot of people with some degree of psychic ability in this world. To what degree they're telepathic or telekinetic, we don't know. It's the weakest point of the comic, IMO, that this came out of nowhere and went so untouched-upon. I'm guessing at some point we'll find out that a character we know is a sensitive. My money's on Angela's son. Him playing with the floating castle felt like foreshadowing of something.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:50
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Ubiquitous_ posted:I enjoyed the Watchmen graphic novel a lot, but even though we're only two episodes in, I feel like Watchmen the TV show is much more important and has much more gravitas to it than any single page of the original work. I feel like it's just a matter of scope. Watchmen the comic is really focused on superhero comics, so its history starts in 1938 at the release of Action Comics #1. Meanwhile Watchmen the show is interested in the history of masked vigilantism in America, so its history starts at Bass Reeves.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:57
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massive spider posted:"if Season 2 is anything like the inaugural season, we can expect a sensationalistic hyper-pop narrative that plays recklessly with history, proceeds from an overtly left-wing point of view, and risks alienating the fringe constituencies who regard “costumed adventurers” with problematic reverence. While there’s reason to believe the new set of episodes won’t be as provocative to vigilante profiles as Season 1, we should be wary of its cultural influence all the same. " Came to the thread to post this, definitely got a chuckle out of me while I was reading it
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Oct 28, 2019 18:59
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After hesitating earlier, why did Angela decide to arrest the old guy after she learned he was her grandfather and that he was (likely) right about her boss being scum? Shock? (Also did she leave a hundred year old man chained to a chair, without food and possibly water, for the better part of 24 hours?)
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Oct 28, 2019 19:02
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Angela... bad?? 
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Oct 28, 2019 19:12
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IMDB says jermy irons is viedt. and while I'm on board with that as a speculation, has it actually been confirmed in or stated in the show? Did one of the clones call him adrian and i missed it? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7049682/
KoRMaK fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 19:14
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Rinkles posted:After hesitating earlier, why did Angela decide to arrest the old guy after she learned he was her grandfather and that he was (likely) right about her boss being scum? Shock? I would say she was finally pissed off enough that this guy may be lieing, or not, and she wants to find out the truth. Rinkles posted:(Also did she leave a hundred year old man chained to a chair, without food and possibly water, for the better part of 24 hours?)
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Oct 28, 2019 19:15
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Ehh I'm enjoying the show but the comic is so incredibly intricate in it's form and writing, nearly every page having some kind of hidden visual pun, reoccurring motif, or subtle foreshadowing, that I don't see the show coming close to equaling it. Obviously it's too early to really tell.
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Oct 28, 2019 19:15
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KoRMaK posted:IMDB says jermy irons is viedt. and while I'm on board with that as a speculation, has it actually been confirmed in or stated in the show? Did one of the clones call him adrian and i missed it? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7049682/ No, none of the servants have called him that.
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Oct 28, 2019 19:16
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