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pkay posted:It's almost as if people, by and large, don't give a gently caress about a candidates policies... Yes they do.
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Oct 28, 2019 23:54
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theflyingorc posted:*shaking in my boots at the idea of the White House making an argument* Lol at the people who care at this point what the WH says to the true believers
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Oct 28, 2019 23:54
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VH4Ever posted:I don't have a secret agenda here I just thought that was a thing that happened. I still don't get it but it did, right? Yes, iirc about 10%. To the extent that was him attracting conservative voters, that might be explained by appeal to Pew's "market skeptic conservative" political typology.
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Oct 28, 2019 23:58
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empty whippet box posted:I guarantee you that there is not one single person who voted for Trump that can accurately describe even one single policy position of Bernie Sanders. The whole concept of "Bernie to Trump voters" is laughable from the ground up There are enough of them that they are kingmakers in a presidential election, but pundits can't wrap their heads around just how disconnected they are from policy or party politics, so they are ignored in favor of the mythical economically anxious white working class voter. The bright side is that Trump's schtick has gotten stale, and the most interesting thing that can happen in 2020 is to see what happens when he loses.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:02
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I'm glad all of you were such pure hearted leftists from right out of the womb, because I started off as a dipshit young Republican who got pushed to the left by college and life experience, friends, and my Swedish socialist grandmother So yeah, redemption is a thing with some people who can be convinced TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:08
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Millions of Bernie supporters are, to this day, stuck in a state of quantum superposition between "turning out to vote for Clinton in record numbers" and "would have totally won it in a landslide for anyone more compelling than Hillary." We can only hope that they have not run out of food or oxygen before Trump's departure returns them to our dimension. Obama-Trump voters were a thing, but the studies into it showed they were mostly lifelong Republicans who were temporarily embarrassed by Bush and voted for a really charming guy with a really centrist campaign. Some of them might do that again but there's no reason to bank on them.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:08
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TulliusCicero posted:I'm glad all of you were such pure hearted leftists from right out of the womb, because I started off as a dipshit young Republican who got pushed to the left by college and life experience, friends, and my Swedish socialist grandmother Was your candidate of choice running literal concentration camps? Killer robot posted:Millions of Bernie supporters are, to this day, stuck in a state of quantum superposition between "turning out to vote for Clinton in record numbers" and "would have totally won it in a landslide for anyone more compelling than Hillary." We can only hope that they have not run out of food or oxygen before Trump's departure returns them to our dimension. 
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Oct 29, 2019 00:10
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https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1188935290481717248?s=20 i wonder if that subpoena is already written and ready to go.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:11
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Was your candidate of choice running literal concentration camps? I was a shithead who liked GW in HS my dude, and thought climate change was fake. I was an awful person politically. I was never big on the racism part though, so that might be a component the true poo poo heads have that separates those that can be salvaged People can change TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:13
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Was your candidate of choice running literal concentration camps? one of the major takes in the RWM septic tank is that It's Not That Bad and I'm pretty sure I got a dude to not vote in 2016 (unless Tulsi runs third party please god no) by sharing a bunch of the stuff that enrages this thread specifically the child separation related stuff iirc
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Oct 29, 2019 00:13
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On the subject of economic anxiety vs "economic anxiety", the Pew report does show that it's a Venn diagram with plenty of overlap: (e: c'mon Pew, it's not like Black People would have messed with the formatting) eviltastic fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:14
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TulliusCicero posted:I was a shithead who like GW in HS my dude, and thought climate change was fake. I was an awful person politically. I voted for W as my very first vote in 2004, and I was smug as heck about how sad people were on my liberal college campus the next day because I was an idiot who knew nothing about anything. People can indeed change a lot. that's a super good post vvvv How are u fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:15
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Re: the Alt Right, I think people are arguing past each other. The thing you have to understand about internet nazis is most of them don't actually care about [insert horrible bigoted thing they're spouting] because it's just in-group signaling. Saying you hate jews or trans folks or muslims or whatever is how you reinforce you belong to the group. It's not "load-bearing" ideology, because they don't actually give a poo poo. Which means a few things! 1. There is no point in ever arguing with a random internet nazi. You can't win because they don't actually care. You aren't arguing with an ideology. You, a random stranger, are saying their friends suck. You will never win this argument. EVER. Don't waste your time. 2. There IS a point in arguing with your personal friend, relative, or coworker IF that person cares enough about you that you might be more important than their internet nazi friends. That's it. It's that simple. A trusted friend saying their nazi friends suck can potentially drive a wedge between them and the nazis, especially if its caught early. 3. Recognize that a lot of these people were specifically targeted and isolated from non-nazis in order to create stochastic terrorists. Getting people out of the nazi-bubble is important if we want less mass shootings and less "lone wolf" terrorism. So it is worth trying if you happen to be in the #2 position BUT 4. No person who is being targeted by these fuckers should feel any sort of need or be pressured to talk to internet nazis, even if they are in the #2 position. This is not your job. They are actively making the world more dangerous for you and it's a joke to them. It's extremely hosed up. 5. And finally, saying "its better to put effort into energizing non-nazis" is fine, but I'm not canvassing for Bernie while I'm eating lunch with my brother. I'm not wasting time I could have spent doing "more efficient" things, people who are defending the #2 position of trying to help their chuddy relations are not spending time at a family function talking to racist uncle mike instead of registering minorities to vote, they are spending time talking to racist uncle mike instead of eating more cole slaw while watching the big game. It's really silly to conflate these two activities as if taking opportunities to confront chud-behavior in your loved ones means you can't do the ground-game stuff. It REALLY doesn't.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:16
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TulliusCicero posted:I'm glad all of you were such pure hearted leftists from right out of the womb, because I started off as a dipshit young Republican who got pushed to the left by college and life experience, friends, and my Swedish socialist grandmother there are a TON of people on this forum like me who were shithead libertarians when we were older-teen almost-humans in my particular case it was majoring in economics thst swung me left lol, immersion in good studies about how helping the poor etc is great for everybody
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Oct 29, 2019 00:16
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GreyjoyBastard posted:there are a TON of people on this forum like me who were shithead libertarians when we were older-teen almost-humans Being a History major and an English minor and being exposed to the absolute hosed up things the US did to other countries, and our own people through primary sources changed my mind hard, and my friends and grandmother pushed me further
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Oct 29, 2019 00:20
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Tons of people start as libertarians (this forum is the prime example) because it's easily accessible and you don't need to know a lot of theory. You're also generally getting in to it at that point in your life where you REALLY get in to anything. Then as you get more exposure to things you either dig in on libertarianism despite the paucity of literature and the overwhelming evidence against it as a viable social construct. Or, you start reading stuff, realize libertarianism just appealed to you because it was simple, and turn into a burnt out 35 year old socialist database manager.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:20
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I'd argue that GWB support in 2004 was lovely, but 9/11 had just broken the country's brain 3 years prior and W could mostly string sentences together.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:22
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1188958893923278849?s=19
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Oct 29, 2019 00:23
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Hey, more evidence for my pet theory of "Trump didn't get the same initial briefing all Presidents do!"
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Oct 29, 2019 00:24
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FizFashizzle posted:Tons of people start as libertarians (this forum is the prime example) because it's easily accessible and you don't need to know a lot of theory. You're also generally getting in to it at that point in your life where you REALLY get in to anything. it's a perfect ideology for teens who've read a couple books and feel alienated from their school peers i was something of an primitive anarchist myself 
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Oct 29, 2019 00:24
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I'd argue that GWB support in 2004 was lovely, but 9/11 had just broken the country's brain 3 years prior and W could mostly string sentences together. The dude actively committed war crimes, and I was all aboard the "STOP THE TERRORISTS" train I think my first real awakening moment was HS Government when we were debating the Patriot Act and I realized I was on the political left side of the room on the issue, after hearing how draconian it was. I voted for Obama as a moderate as my first vote ever, but for one year and a half I was real dangerously close to slipping into conservative because I listened to the radio on my way to community college in an hour commute, and I would flip on talk stations, they would play Limbaugh. At first I laughed, then I started agreeing. It's insidious how as a sheltered white kid he can get into your brain. Thank god Hannity was on after him and I found him completely loving insufferable because of his shrill whining about anything Obama did, and Glen Beck's crazy times broke me when he started crying and I was just laughing at the clown. Then I found NPR  But I'll be honest, even as a neocon/ neoliberalism Liberterianism sounded like utter loving laughable nonsense to me TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:27
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luxury handset posted:it's a perfect ideology for teens who've read a couple books and feel alienated from their school peers please do not further platform kerning chameleon ty
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Oct 29, 2019 00:30
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You can't reason with someone who thinks an entire group(s) of people don't have a right to exist or have human rights. I'm fine working poo poo out with random bigots and ignorant people but asking minorities to try and "reason" with supremacists is asking them to put themselves in front of violence. If yts wanna try and save each other whatever but asking or shaming minorities who refuse to do so is not only ignorant but loving dangerous.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:30
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Koalas March posted:You can't reason with someone who thinks an entire group(s) of people don't have a right to exist or have human rights. Correct. There is no acceptable middle ground. I think that's the barometer for the "saveability" of Trump voters. At this point there's no supporting "only parts" of his agenda. People by now have to realize this is what it is, and if they still support him then they support the camps.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:34
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sexpig by night posted:Having the vote isn't some horrible blunder that will cost everything but it's really loving dumb to validate right wing whining when you had no reason to, and continue the noble tradition of Dems agreeing to whatever under the banner of 'decorum' and 'norms' while the the Republicans wipe their rear end with that stuff because why would they not I don't get why people continue to frame this was bending to right-wing whining and not calling their bluff. They very clearly want to be able to call the impeachment proceedings some closeted conspiratorial backroom thing; democrats will now have both a judicial and popular mandate to bring it to the public and say 'here look at all the crimes'. The only thing that really matters in this process is public opinion and how that opinion puts pressure on congresspeople. This seems like a good move to up the pressure further. I don't know how you look at this and imagine people *losing* their faith in this process, unless they wheel out witness after witness that says how perfect trump's phone call was or whatever. Hearings from here on out will be both public tempered with already-given damning testimony by several key witnesses. Refuting it will be Very Dumb. Subpoenas will carry both judicial and popular weight to actually hold people in contempt if they are violated. More of the public will be brought into the storyline of impeachment. It's a good thing. skylined! fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:34
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MikayesFiona/status/1188953920019849217
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Oct 29, 2019 00:35
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skylined! posted:I don't why people continue to frame this was bending to right-wing whining and not calling their bluff. apparently the current way that the HFC is placating the big orange baby is claiming they're totally wrecking the witnesses on cross examination but they're just not allowed to release the transcripts to prove it and are just too drat honorable to leak it of course the democrats promptly leaked what it was they've been doing and it's basically (a) repeating the name of the person that republicans suspect was the whistleblower as much as possible to try to screw with releasing the transcript and/or make it so dems leak the whistleblower's name and (b) repeatedly demanding people denounce themselves or others for a lack of loyalty to trump and (c) "eh gently caress it we're going drinking let us know when you're done"
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Oct 29, 2019 00:39
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Koalas March posted:asking or shaming minorities who refuse to do so is not only ignorant but loving dangerous. Is anybody doing this?
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Oct 29, 2019 00:40
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Killer robot posted:Millions of Bernie supporters are, to this day, stuck in a state of quantum superposition between "turning out to vote for Clinton in record numbers" and "would have totally won it in a landslide for anyone more compelling than Hillary." We can only hope that they have not run out of food or oxygen before Trump's departure returns them to our dimension.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:41
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https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1188962363522859008quote:Sen. Deb Fischer (R-Neb.) disagreed, arguing that Republicans got what they wanted and should declare victory. oh my god lol, they've really and truly lost their majority for Lindsey's resolution
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Oct 29, 2019 00:42
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"AS A PERSON WITH THIS RANK OF SUPREME GENERAL OF BULLSHIT ON THE INTERNET, I CONCUR" 
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Oct 29, 2019 00:43
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1188962363522859008  And people were worried about Trump declaring yet another Pyhrric Victory lmao This is why the Dems did it. There is no defense for Trump now and they all loving know it TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 00:46
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1188962363522859008 this is genuinely devastating, by procedural nonsense standards, if it holds
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Oct 29, 2019 00:49
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https://mobile.twitter.com/yashar/status/1188896469438226432 https://mobile.twitter.com/yashar/status/1188898546084245504
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Oct 29, 2019 00:49
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Thank you for your service in The Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:49
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1188962363522859008 Pelosi... good?
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Oct 29, 2019 00:50
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TulliusCicero posted:This is why the Dems did it. There is no defense now of Trump and they loving know it it was pretty reasonable in the first place because with one resolution you can - set procedures for how it'll work going forward and lay out rules about permissible information sharing (boring stuff you have to do regardless) - get another news cycle in your favor while dispensing with several of the main republican talking points - moot legal arguments that side-investigations, like into the Mueller grand jury materials, are not also part of the impeachment inquiry but if it also kills graham's majority (which was only at 50 before this), it's more clever than i thought
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Oct 29, 2019 00:51
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TulliusCicero posted:
She called their bluff and they don't have any loving idea what to do about it.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:51
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1188962363522859008 I believe this will begin another.... compaction cycle, where chuds continue to believe this is a massive victory and sane not-totally-deadeyed Rs continue to peel off.
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Oct 29, 2019 00:52
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I highly doubt this. Trump got a lot of votes from people that thought of him as a wild card or even a secret moderate, and no one is gonna think that now. I don't know how representative it is, but I've seen a lot of Trump supporters that are pro-Bernie Sanders of all people. And while it's far, FAR less then it should be, Trump has definitely alienated some of the Republican base with his rhetoric. It's gonna be an up hill battle. Depends on the voter. But a lot of the alt right Chan ones like yang and or Gabbard for various reasons. Some still like trump but many dropped because it became even to obvious for them that he is a moron but a lot dropped him because he likes Israel or some poo poo and he didn’t kill enough browns. Many of them have either gotten bored with it all together and a few others have gone full siege pill. The ones you’re talking about probably still supporting trump some what if only to not look “weak” but many are probably just sick of him on various levels. I guess my view is trump probably has more support than I’d like to think but half of them probably think he is hosed in 2020 and etc.
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