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i clapped when i saw the droid gunship
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Oct 29, 2019 03:54
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El Burbo posted:i clapped when i saw the droid gunship Atsts atsts!
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Oct 29, 2019 04:49
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I agree it would have been nice if the prequels depicted the amorality of the Republic's leadership--Anakin is kind of a dupe and Amidala is weak but she still helps start the Rebellion. There's no equivalent in the prequels to the Imperial officers in the OT, who really get the point across with their bland banality of evil act.
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Oct 29, 2019 04:59
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https://twitter.com/JamesHibberd/status/1189032346298847232
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Oct 29, 2019 05:15
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Jewmanji posted:I’m curious if Rogue One is more well liked amongst sequel fans or prequel fans. The Jyn Erso character has such a flat affect, it’s much more consistent with the prequel sensibility, and yet unlike the prequel characters she’s utterly charmless. Speaking only for myself, I really appreciate how Rogue One brings the aesthetic of 90s Star Wars videogames to the screen. It feels like what the Star Wars universe felt like before the prequels were released.
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Oct 29, 2019 05:17
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*3 dozen whoopie cushion noises*
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Oct 29, 2019 05:26
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I figured it would take at least a week after that Q&A for them to get the Trank/Trevorrow treatment. Disney are on the ball.
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Oct 29, 2019 05:27
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euphronius posted:Correcting for genre differences, I don’t know in what way the sequels are better than the prequels. there's not a single way they're better
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Oct 29, 2019 05:41
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LinkesAuge posted:Just take Anakin in TPM for example, the whole dilemma isn't even framed as part of the bigger political questions. It doesn't matter which faction is even in power, his fate (or that of his mother) is totally unaffected by it. It really is kind of egregious that Lucas raises these questions about democracy, corruption etc. but then completely ignores them in regards to his main protagonist. That whether or not the good guys or the bad guys were In Power had no bearing on whether the slaves had lovely lives was the point. He doesn't ignore it - the statement made by there being no discernible difference between the heroes and the villains should be self-apparent. LinkesAuge posted:It could have been a great motivation for Anakin to harbor resentment towards the Republic because they never did anything for slaves like him and Palpatine could have easily exploited that. This happens. LinkesAuge posted:Why did Shmi have to die through some random Tusken's which aren't connected to the overall story? There is a big war going on, why not make her a victim of this conflict and tie it back to the overall conflict? Anakin spends a decade of his life in the service, or rather, servitude, of the good guys, and his efforts do nothing to improve the lives of anyone from his home, least of all his mother. He leaves to become a hero, and returns to discover that what little good his mother wrought from life had nothing to do with him - his faith in the bastion of Jedidom is shaken by the sudden reality that they do little, if anything, about the barbarousness of the world, and he expresses this frustration on those very people in the manner that he has been trained to do. LinkesAuge posted:The other problem is there really is no "downfall" of the Republic SHOWN in the prequels. We get a chancellor that is democratically changed and another one gets appointed. At face value Palpatine is even a sensible choice, we don't see him paying people off, there is no radicalisation, no rights are stripped, no mass change of laws or any political movement, Palpatine is actually never even shown to have ANY political agenda. For all we know his Empire could have great healthcare and welfare. Palpatine's goal isn't political, politics are just a tool for him to accumulate power and destroy the Jedi. That the bureaucracy of the Republic enables Palpatine to seamlessly reconfigure the Republic into the Empire is, again, the main thesis of the prequels. There is no "downfall" of the Republic because, in no uncertain terms, the Republic simply was the Empire - or, rather, an embryonic stage of it. LinkesAuge posted:Also think about how Palpatine wins the power in the end. It's kinda a "cheat" regarding the whole downfall of the Republic because it doesn't go down due to a political movement/shift, it goes down because suddenly the bad guy (which could perfectly hide it all that time) can use a switch to make the complete military follow his orders unquestionably. Order 66 is a metaphor. The ability to make soldiers perform war crimes at the push of a button is a metaphor for the dangers of a fascist government with a powerful military. Consider; what's the difference between clones that have a Do Kill switch in their brain, and normal soldiers who are utterly convinced that it is in their best interest to never question orders, especially from people who identify who is a target? I posit that, functionally, there is none. LinkesAuge posted:Imagine that Truman at the end of WW2 suddenly turned out to be an evil wizard who could controll all US forces via telepathy, is responsible for getting the right wing movement in Germany started and on top made sure that FDR conveniently died at the right time. Would that be a failure of the democratic system? It's important to note that stories often use metaphors. "It doesn't count if they used magic to do it" is a very arbitrary way of criticizing a story - especially in the context of a story in a series about space wizards. I mean, is the climax of A New Hope any less meaningful or exciting because Luke guides his missiles with the Force? LinkesAuge posted:The Republic fails because it has to for pure plot purposes, there is nothing organic about it, there is no real or proper critique, no struggle, it just casually happens. It's more interesting to consider the prequels with this point of view in mind: by the time of TPM, the Republic has already failed. LinkesAuge posted:It's a surface level take on politics, democracy good, dictator bad, don't have dictators with total power, duh. The fascist dictator in Star Wars is democratically elected. You are intentionally ignoring much of the plot so as to argue that it is thin. LinkesAuge posted:Even then you could imagine a version where we never see Coruscant, the Senate or any of those elements and only hear about what happens in the background and nothing essential would be lost. The character's and their motivations, their choices, their actions wouldn't change at all, you could replace the Republic with a traditional kingdom and it'd be exactly the same for the story. "In the background" is vague, here - for example, I would say anything that the audience is made aware of is, distinctly, not in 'the background'. If your argument here is "if you took out the plot, the movie would still have a plot", well... that's just not how it works. LinkesAuge posted:Anakin didn't march into the Senate to kill political opponents Consider: Palpatine had no political opponents, save (arguably) Padme. Again, he was democratically elected. LinkesAuge posted:Yoda and Palpatine even fight in an EMPTY Senate and the cycnical part of me notices that the senate is only used as prop for that fight. I believe that showing Palpatine literally using the Senate as a weapon after spending three films doing so metaphorically is inspired imagery.
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Oct 29, 2019 05:47
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thank you god holy poo poo, happiest I've ever been seeing Star Wars-related news and the Only time I've been happy seeing news related to these two pricks
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Oct 29, 2019 05:47
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Gonz posted:*3 dozen whoopie cushion noises* *to the melody of the GoT theme*
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Oct 29, 2019 05:51
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Palpatine's biggest political rival in the films was Bail, who is a major player for someone without much of an on-screen role. He's mentioned in The Phantom Menace (still using his birth name rather than his married name) as one of the other nominees for Supreme Chancellor. He's Padme's mentor and an important member of the anti-war faction, saves Yoda's life, founds the Rebel Alliance, retains the service of R2-D2, sends Leia to recruit Obi-Wan, and dies on Alderaan.
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Oct 29, 2019 06:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There’s honestly not too much left to add, now that everyone agrees that the prequels are good and the sequels are bad. One can simply cut the legs out from under any point you make by examining your starting principles and realizing the flaws in them. It is always the axioms that destroy a purely rhetorical exercise.
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Oct 29, 2019 09:29
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It's a shame Wheat Loaf self-banned before they could take a victory lap
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Oct 29, 2019 10:13
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Judakel posted:One can simply cut the legs out from under any point you make by examining your starting principles and realizing the flaws in them. It is always the axioms that destroy a purely rhetorical exercise. Going to do it then? 
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Oct 29, 2019 13:32
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KaptainKrunk posted:there's not a single way they're better I guess music is equal but it’s the same guy. Eh What do you think the sequels do better (correcting for the different genres)?
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Oct 29, 2019 13:34
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The production design of TLJ is at the top of the franchise, imo. TFA looks pretty good too, about on par with TPM's overall look. ROTS and AOTC are by far the worst looking Star Wars movies for me. General aesthetic/art direction largely influences by personal enjoyment of a movie, so naturally I think TLJ is the best Star War. TPM's art direction owns, but the weak narrative and character work sullies it. Shame. But yeah, I feel the ST can say its visuals are better than the overtly garish two-thirds of the PT.
teagone fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 13:51
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teagone posted:The production design of TLJ is at the top of the franchise, imo. TFA looks pretty good too, about on par with TPM's overall look. ROTS and ATOC are by far the worst looking Star Wars movies for me. General aesthetic/art direction largely influences by personal enjoyment of a movie, so naturally I think TLJ is the best Star War. TPM's art direction owns, but the weak narrative and character work sullies it. Shame. The production design on TLJ is just repurposed assets from the OT though? AT-ATs, but different! Hoth, but different! The cave, but different! The executor, but different! Tie-fighters, but different! Bacta tanks, but different! X-wings, the same!
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Oct 29, 2019 13:54
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I was taking them as a whole but yeah if you break it down by movie there are some uneven aspect to the prequels quality. Tpm tho is hard for me to criticize too much as GL was still vastly limited by tech that didn’t really sort itself out until aotc and the superior rots
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Oct 29, 2019 13:56
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Jewmanji posted:The production design on TLJ is just repurposed assets from the OT though? AT-ATs, but different! Hoth, but different! The cave, but different! The executor, but different! Tie-fighters, but different! Bacta tanks, but different! X-wings, the same! Han Solo, but black!
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Oct 29, 2019 14:05
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Jewmanji posted:The production design on TLJ is just repurposed assets from the OT though? AT-ATs, but different! Hoth, but different! The cave, but different! The executor, but different! Tie-fighters, but different! Bacta tanks, but different! X-wings, the same! It makes sense the ST would repurpose assets from the OT, because it harbors sequels to the OT. The application of said production assets is really good. TLJ is like a dope rear end remix of ESB and ROTJ.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:07
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teagone posted:It makes sense the ST would repurpose assets from the OT, because it harbors sequels to the OT. The application of said production assets is really good. TLJ is like a dope rear end remix of ESB and ROTJ. Ok so you’re just saying that the production design of the OT was extremely good, and the production design of the sequels is good entirely because of how derivative and safe it is. Like, what is the essential quality of those new AT-ATs that makes them “good” rather than extremely boring and derivative? Or Snoke’s ship? Or the cave? Or Snoke’s bodyguards? Like... the whole thing is just a cover song that reminds you how good the original recording was. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 14:09
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I had a dream last night, bordering on a nightmare, that I was watching/in RoS. Everything was very dark, near black. Some kind of irresistibly powerful being was hunting everyone including me. It was catwoman.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:10
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The creativity of design in TPM is the biggest leap between movies since uh...the leap from nothing to the first one. Everything feels exotic but naturally occurring in the star war just decades before in a larger, more vibrant society. It's a well-tread argument now but the alien design is just way bolder and more memorable than the ST. And not every good guy is wearing a vest.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:20
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Jewmanji posted:Ok so you’re just saying that the production design of the OT was extremely good, and the production design of the sequels is good entirely because of how derivative and safe it is. I am not, please don't twist my words. The ST harkens back to imagery from the OT, sure, yeah, I don't mind that personally because they're sequels, but there's a clear separation in its production design that makes it a cut above the rest when you apply cinematography and art direction. Re-used/remixed assets aside, the distinction between the visual aesthetic of the ST from the other movies is pretty evident, and I think they're better.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:23
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teagone posted:I am not, please don't twist my words. The ST harkens back to imagery from the OT, sure, yeah, I don't mind that personally because they're sequels, but there's a clear separation in its production design that makes it a cut above the rest when you apply cinematography and art direction. Re-used/remixed assets aside, the distinction between the visual aesthetic of the ST from the other movies is pretty evident, and I think they're better. See I would say cinematography and art in the pt is way ahead of the ST
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Oct 29, 2019 14:26
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Ingmar terdman posted:The creativity of design in TPM is the biggest leap between movies since uh...the leap from nothing to the first one. Everything feels exotic but naturally occurring in the star war just decades before in a larger, more vibrant society. It's a well-tread argument now but the alien design is just way bolder and more memorable than the ST. Lucas put a huge emphasis on setting, and creating believable worlds. Each planet in the OT and TPM feels iconic (less so with AOTC and ROTS). One of the STs great failings is utterly foregoing any memorable and differentiated planets or locations. TLJ does a decent job at points (the caretakers were an inspired choice). But otherwise it all smears together. The superficial influence of Dune is obviously apparent on Tatooine, but also the care with which Lucas went to instill a sense of geography, culture, of competing cultures, etc. There’s nothing like the Tusken Raiders, Jawas, or Gungans in the ST (save for the aforementioned caretakers) teagone posted:I am not, please don't twist my words. The ST harkens back to imagery from the OT, sure, yeah, I don't mind that personally because they're sequels, but there's a clear separation in its production design that makes it a cut above the rest when you apply cinematography and art direction. Re-used/remixed assets aside, the distinction between the visual aesthetic of the ST from the other movies is pretty evident, and I think they're better. Can you give me an example of some novel production design in the ST that you feel really stands out? I’m curious what you’re thinking of. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 14:27
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euphronius posted:See I would say cinematography and art in the pt is way ahead of the ST TPM looks great, and it's production design is S+ tier. AOTC and ROTS are just way too garish looking for me to care about any cool ship/creature/set design, with lots of flat/static looking shots. Only their big CG set pieces having anything interesting to look at, but even then, they're just CG set pieces.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:28
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teagone posted:TPM looks great, and it's production design is S+ tier. AOTC and ROTS are just way too garish looking for me to care about any cool ship/creature/set design, with lots of flat/static looking shots and only the CG set pieces having anything interesting to look at. Garish ? Can you give me another movie you think is garish so I can understand what your saying . You say garish but also flat and static which seems inopposite
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Oct 29, 2019 14:29
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Jewmanji posted:Can you give me an example of some novel production design in the ST that you feel really stands out? I’m curious what you’re thinking of. Sure, I singled out TLJ as being the best, so here are a few bits I think are great: Snoke's throne room. Snoke's Praetorian Guard costuming and weaponry. Some choice bits on Ahch-To, notably the scene at night when its raining where Rey and Kylo have a thing that leads into the fight with Luke. The execution of the kamikaze ship destruction. The red salt on Crait. Pretty much all of Canto Bight—though I'm not super fond of the Canto Bight narrative beat in the story, but I think its set design, creature design, and costuming look great. That's what I got off the top of my head. teagone fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 14:35
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euphronius posted:Garish ? Shot composition is flat/static. The general look/color palette of ROTS and AOTC is lurid as hell, like I guess the Wachowskis' Speed Racer? But obviously not as intense.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:37
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teagone posted:Shot composition is flat/static. The general look/color palette of ROTS and AOTC is lurid as hell, like I guess the Wachowskis' Speed Racer? But obviously not as intense. Got you. That makes sense
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Oct 29, 2019 14:37
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teagone posted:Snoke's Praetorian Guard costuming and weaponry. You can't be serious. They're visually indistinct and boring (red and red with no textures will do that) and whatever material the costumes are made out of looks way too cheap for such a big-budget film. They're like the set-filling action figures where they're the same body with a slightly different head and different weapon.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:44
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There's a huge disparity in the visual aesthetic between TPM and AOTC/ROTS if you watch them back to back. I suppose that's largely due in part to TPM being shot on film, and AOTC/ROTS having made the transition to digital. The design language between all three films is the same, but AOTC/ROTS clearly has a much more "sterile" feel to them, resulting in what I think is too brightly colored imagery that makes a lot of things stand out in a bad way. This is made worse with boring shot composition. Just my opinion though!Horizon Burning posted:You can't be serious. They're visually indistinct and boring (red and red with no textures will do that) and whatever material the costumes are made out of looks way too cheap for such a big-budget film. They're like the set-filling action figures where they're the same body with a slightly different head and different weapon. I like what I like, and I think they looked great  They were a cool take on faceless mooks.
teagone fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 14:45
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Yeah TPM is it’s own little movie not all that related to AOTc and ROTs It’s the most spielbergian of all of them too
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Oct 29, 2019 14:47
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teagone posted:I like what I like, and I think they looked great Well, at least we've drilled down to your actual thought: TLJ has 'great' 'production design' because it has... a cool take on faceless mooks.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:56
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Horizon Burning posted:Well, at least we've drilled down to your actual thought: TLJ has 'great' 'production design' because it has... a cool take on faceless mooks. Yes, that's exactly the reason why I think TLJ is the best looking Star Wars movie. You got me!
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Oct 29, 2019 14:59
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Horizon Burning posted:whatever material the costumes are made out of looks way too cheap for such a big-budget film can you explain what an expensive material looks like
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Oct 29, 2019 15:02
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 I mean, they look dope to me. Not sure what else to say. I just love their look. The praetorian guard armor/weapons and the throne room give off huge "Tarsem" vibes for me, which is 100% why I like those visual bits so much. Like, yeah, if I had to compare, I'd say TLJ is what a Tarsem Singh Star Wars movie would maybe look like, or at least some parts of TLJ (like the guards and snoke's throne room).
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Oct 29, 2019 15:06
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Horizon Burning posted:They're like the set-filling action figures where they're the same body with a slightly different head and different weapon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clone_trooper
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Oct 29, 2019 15:14
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