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"fiber under his fingernails. He was alive the whole time. Was you with him last night" Im on my rewatch and it's still good. Angela revealing that yea he drank a little... And uh huh he did some blow.... they trust each other on a specific way and that convo revelaed how much they do. Easy to tell if you've had conversations like that before. Even red scare - he asks whose on charge - but not tonsieze power but just more so looking for a loving leader
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Oct 29, 2019 04:12
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"You're kids?" Good poke. Lines up with his process as demonstrated in the pod. I'm sure it pained him to have to ask a close ally something like that who he already wants to trust....but he needs to be sure
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Oct 29, 2019 04:14
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Yea the perfection of glasses mask can only be achieved through cg, but I too didn't realize how specifically until I read the article about the different types of masks they used. Some to let the actor emote, others to perfectly project the reflection onto the mask and then to the cam. I barely could tell. "Im not a Nazi, I'm a communist" a sentiment I unfortunately only would have understood thanks to recent real world movements Angelae hugs the sheriff as she lets him down. She's taking the opportunity to hug one more time... But on the down low
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Oct 29, 2019 04:20
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Don't miss the news clipping on Peteypedia, it explains that Judd Crawford served in Vietnam under Robert Mueller - yes, that one.
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Oct 29, 2019 04:36
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this show is doing the something tho... bringing to pop culture this like incredibly well hidden terriblly horrific domestic casualty and aerial bombing using WWI tactics. the only reason i know of black wallstreet is because of a goon, making a loving cities skylines vid on it. im nearly ashamed that i havent heard of it before, but then i realize that if i havent, then a lot of others probably havnet, and that means its not specifally my fault but something more systemic. But i also wonder.... was loving donoteat on the writing staff?? His vid came out in such a close promiximity to this show. Not too close, but not too far away. Or, are they just both tapping into a shared realization? Like, I'm sure that scene in Tulsa in the opener had some dramaticism.... I could easily see, after looking at pics of the destruction of greenwood in 1921 that someone dropped dynamite out of a plane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfVzbM3l7RQ topher is building same catsle type as dr manhattan and viedt. that castle shape keeps recurring
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Oct 29, 2019 04:37
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Started watching the show last week because the premise of returning to the world of watchmen after the comics has really gripped me and the first episode didn't quite totally grab me, but I was curious enough to keep going. This week was pretty drat good though and I think I'm onboard to see where it goes. I at first figured Veidt's servants might have been gifts from Manhattan, but it definitely doesn't seem that way now. I guess Veidt really has become unhinged after not getting a satisfactory answer from Manhattan way back in the 80s, did he? Kinda seems like he's got a few screws loose.
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Oct 29, 2019 04:41
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Servaetes posted:Started watching the show last week because the premise of returning to the world of watchmen after the comics has really gripped me and the first episode didn't quite totally grab me, but I was curious enough to keep going. He kept reflecting on the last thing the guy told him. And used that echo of advice to probably justify incinerating a human. What I'm saying is that yea I agree with you. American hero is good, but dont forget - Angela uses the same stabby technique on someone. So... the show itself isn't like talking poo poo about the synder depiction. It used it in it's own depiction.
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Oct 29, 2019 04:45
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Just watched episode 2, and I think this is a super interesting show that's nailing the tone of the book and using its characters and setting to explore new themes that are still adjacent to those of the original work. It's good, and I'm kinda bewildered that some people don't think it "feels like Watchmen" itt. That idiots online are complaining about how political it is while claiming to be fans of the comic is just par for the course from reactionary nerds; the book is obviously political as gently caress, and this is precisely the right moment in American culture for complicated, messy stories about deranged, racist reactionaries clashing with classist, authoritarian liberals. I hope they stick the landing. Does anyone know if this is intended to be a limited series, or they're hoping for renewal?
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Oct 29, 2019 06:21
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I hope they stick the landing. Does anyone know if this is intended to be a limited series, or they're hoping for renewal? Lindelof stated while its possible to make a second season if people wanted it, this season and story was written as a closed arc and never intended to be multi season.
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Oct 29, 2019 06:32
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I can assume that in the 30 years since the Squid attack, relations between the USSR and USA have warmed up and immigration is possible between the two. That's why Red Scare is a cop in Tulsa. No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Just watched episode 2, and I think this is a super interesting show that's nailing the tone of the book and using its characters and setting to explore new themes that are still adjacent to those of the original work. It's good, and I'm kinda bewildered that some people don't think it "feels like Watchmen" itt. When someone says "Why did they havehave to make it political????" when talking about a work that was explicitly politicial origonally,. it means "Why did they have to put People of colour/women/lgqbt+/anyone who isn't a straight white male in it". It's always a bad faith argument. Look at them saying that about Star Trek Discovery. It has a bunch of women in lead parts, so that means its political, when Star Trek has always been preachy, if in a hamfisted way through the eyes of a sex pervert.
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Oct 29, 2019 06:53
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Rocksicles posted:There has to be a grain of historical context taken with the third riech statement. As nazi as the nazis were prior to december 1941, the genocides proper didn't start until after that. So being a nazi supporter prior to 1940 wasn't exactly uncommon in the US. The genocides started in 1933. Being a nazi supporter prior to 1940 wasn't uncommon in the US.
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Oct 29, 2019 10:08
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Orange Devil posted:The genocides started in 1933. The genocide wasn't public knowledge until after the camps were found by allied troops.
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Oct 29, 2019 10:27
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Preston Waters posted:The genocide wasn't public knowledge until after the camps were found by allied troops. everyone knew something bad was happening. you dont support the nazis at any point without being an insane racist.
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Oct 29, 2019 10:56
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Preston Waters posted:The genocide wasn't public knowledge until after the camps were found by allied troops. All the communists, trade unionists and many social democrats disappeared while newspapers reported on enemies of the state being brought to concentration camps. But sure, nobody knew.
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Oct 29, 2019 11:16
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Orange Devil posted:The genocides started in 1933. They merked people left and right, but the on paper "this is a good idea" didn't happen until the very end of 1941 when they started building death camps. Rocksicles fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 11:28
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This episode made me wonder what it's like to watch this show without having any prior knowledge of Watchmen. Like I'm just imagining my dad noticing the show on the HBO app and getting to the Ozy/Manhattan play scene and trying to parse what the gently caress any of this poo poo is about.
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Oct 29, 2019 11:31
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Rocksicles posted:They merked people left and right, but the on paper "this is a good idea" didn't happen until the very end of 1941 when they started building death camps. Genocide doesn't require death camps.
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Oct 29, 2019 11:44
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Orange Devil posted:Genocide doesn't require death camps. But the point was it wasn't so much common knowledge to the public. The Allies were only aware of the extent of it in 1942. The Romani and the Jews were officially genocides from 1941, of course they killed people by the truckload prior to that, and they went after the disabled and other undesirables, sterilized people and killed hundreds of thousands of anyone the didn't like from late 1939 with the T4 program, but they were building up to the state sponsored genocides. They didn't hit the ground running, they went after german citizens before they invaded Poland in September 1939 and further a field they started rounding people up outside of Germany. I'm not sure of the genocides you are talking about before that, i think i covered most of it.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:01
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Heard someone mention a theory I quite liked, that Veidt may be suffering from dementia. It would line up with his characterization seeming a bit off and his behavior seeming rather erratic, even for a guy with a god-complex who has been living with a massive amount of crushing guilt. What happens when the smartest man on Earth is no longer in control of his mental faculties? If he is trying to recreate the Osterman accident, then maybe it's not just to have his powers but to reverse his own mental condition? A bit farfetched, but I'd be really interested to see where it goes.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:13
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Orange Devil posted:All the communists, trade unionists and many social democrats disappeared while newspapers reported on enemies of the state being brought to concentration camps. But sure, nobody knew. In the US, the public was ignorant of the genocide until the camps were found as Germany fell. Reminder that like 80% of the country favored isolationism and that we were literally dragged into the war by the Roosevelt administration making gradual decisions to get us there. It's not like the New York Times had pictures of bullet-ridden corpses in the ghettos.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:25
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Preston Waters posted:In the US, the public was ignorant of the genocide until the camps were found as Germany fell. Reminder that like 80% of the country favored isolationism and that we were literally dragged into the war by the Roosevelt administration making gradual decisions to get us there. It's not like the New York Times had pictures of bullet-ridden corpses in the ghettos. The Nazis did lots and lots of publicly documented poo poo before the genocide. Favouring isolationism doesn't mean that they were ignorant of it. This is like saying that nobody can tell that right now that the Trump admin doesn't like Latinos.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:36
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Farm Frenzy posted:The Nazis did lots and lots of publicly documented poo poo before the genocide. Favouring isolationism doesn't mean that they were ignorant of it. This is like saying that nobody can tell that right now that the Trump admin doesn't like Latinos. Publicly documented when though. Until 1938 they were basically just locking people up in work camps and murdering people on the QT
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Oct 29, 2019 13:39
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Rocksicles posted:Publicly documented when though. Until 1938 they were basically just locking people up in work camps and murdering people on the QT The Nuremberg laws were in 1935. There's absolutely no chance that someone could be pro-Nazi in the 30s without being an insane racist at the very least.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:43
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Farm Frenzy posted:The Nuremberg laws were in 1935. There's absolutely no chance that someone could be pro-Nazi in the 30s without being an insane racist at the very least. Yeah of course that, that was front and center of the whole nazi thing. I was speaking about the actual stuff that happened because of that. But insane racists were par for the course in the 1930's, almost everywhere.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:00
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There were a series of pogroms leading up to Kristallnacht in 1938...anyone who says they ~didn't know~ is lying. The US was turning away dozens of refugee ships and there was an active Nazi Party here which advocated strongly for eugenics... Everybody knew what was going on...liberating the camps just made them confront the reality.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:08
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:There were a series of pogroms leading up to Kristallnacht in 1938...anyone who says they ~didn't know~ is lying. The US was turning away dozens of refugee ships and there was an active Nazi Party here which advocated strongly for eugenics... 100% there were. But that was and still is written as random street violence against Jews and the other peoples they didn't like. Not unlike the shows intro. But the difference between people suspecting it and the papers and radio officially reporting it was almost 3 years.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:20
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KoRMaK posted:Angelae hugs the sheriff as she lets him down. She's taking the opportunity to hug one more time... But on the down low This is mirrored at the end when she's putting Will in her car.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:24
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I’m fairly sure that Looking Glass getting in Sister Night’s car and immediately asking if she has anything to eat is a reference to Rorschach breaking into Nite Owl’s flat and feasting on beans.
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Oct 29, 2019 15:07
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I liked the justaposition of Angela using the X-ray goggles to miss the photograph. She looked right through it several times.
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Oct 29, 2019 15:22
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KoRMaK posted:"Im not a Nazi, I'm a communist" a sentiment I unfortunately only would have understood thanks to recent real world movements ...are you serious?
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Oct 29, 2019 15:31
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I'm enjoying the show quite a lot so far! I like how the detectives seem to have picked up traits from past vigilantes, intentionally or not. Got some vibes from Red Scare during the trailer-raid that reminded me of the comedian gleefully smashing the heads of protesters, and Looking Glass's mask has a bit of a Rorschach look in some scenes when the light hits it right. The show also seems to be taking care to deferentiate between political affiliation and authoritarianism, and how any society can slide in that direction despite intentions (exacerbated by anonymous combatants and escalating violence). Looking forward to the next ep! Bit of a random aside but did anyone else get Night-Owl vibes from those xray goggles Angela used? Speaking of, what are the odds on the magne-copter being designed/piloted by Owl? And people who complain when something is "too political" usually just disagree with the politics presented or dislike being prompted to challenge their established values. And they're usually right wing man-babies too. That's my hot take anyway.
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Oct 29, 2019 15:36
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Peteypedia observations: The FBI memos have this weird mix of colloquial language, over-exposition, the repeated requests for follow-up or advisement, and that they're coming from a sub-basement, which makes me think that the Anti-Vigilante task unit is primarily this one enthusiastic agent in a mothballed department. Agent Laurie Blake next week will probably strengthen or dispel this assumption. Ben (not Bob, who was killed by the comedian iirc) Woodward describes Judd's grandfather as having a "storied career" as a Tulsa sheriff, which sounds like polite obituary-speech for "Klansmen/Involved in the massacre". Interestingly, the RL Woodward has two daughters and no sons. Also interestingly, he was famously played by Robert Redford in All The President's Men I didn't find Looking Glass's delivery too weird or corny but then again I've seen O Brother Where Art Thou about 200 times Also, Laurie changed her last name from Jupiter to Juspeczyk as a sort of political statement; I'm wondering if she did the same thing for Blake
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Oct 29, 2019 16:01
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Hooded Justice supposedly was pro third reich according to Hollis Mason, but he was also supposedly a communist strongman.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:11
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Internet conspiracy theory; It's a pretty well known fact that Moore never liked how many people LOVED Rorschach. He's meant to be this flawed character who shows how hosed up black and white thinking is, but people are just unironically 100% supporters of him anyway. Now in this show we have 2 characters that are Rorschach. Looking Glass is basically all the cool surface level poo poo. Neat mask, weird habits, but we don't really know what makes him tick. Sister Night on the other hand is basically Rorschach's philosophy without the same window dressing, right now she's torn and nuanced but I'm wondering if she has a 'dogs get put down' moment in the show and ends up being just the same twisted rorschach from the comics. It'd be an interesting study into what exactly resonated with people about Rorschach in the first place, if it was just the surface level 'rule of cool' poo poo or if the actual morality system was what drew people in. This is all apropos of nothing and meaningless internet spitballing but what else is TVIV for. It'd be an interesting consideration if the characters were written with that in mind.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:12
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Agent355 posted:
Not to poop in the Cheerios here but if this was intentional, it was a poor tactical decision to have one of the characters be a black woman because the overlap between people who love Rorschach and crypto racists / misogynists is probably really high.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:17
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Midgetskydiver posted:Not to poop in the Cheerios here but if this was intentional, it was a poor tactical decision to have one of the characters be a black woman because the overlap between people who love Rorschach and crypto racists / misogynists is probably really high. But pretty fun to have the character that most reflects their thinking to be a black woman, leaving them extremely conflicted. no they won’t, racism / misogyny wins out every time
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Oct 29, 2019 16:44
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Midgetskydiver posted:Not to poop in the Cheerios here but if this was intentional, it was a poor tactical decision to have one of the characters be a black woman because the overlap between people who love Rorschach and crypto racists / misogynists is probably really high. Given that the show has embraced the belief that Rorschach appeals to that type, I think (or hope) that they know better to turn a black woman into a carbon-copy of Rorschach. They've already shown plenty of ways in which she is not like Rorschach - her working as part of a larger team and having a relatively healthy family life are a far cry from Rorschach's near-total withdrawal from society. It would take quite an unfortunate turn for her to wind up in the same place as Rorschach at the end of this.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:44
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Midgetskydiver posted:Not to poop in the Cheerios here but if this was intentional, it was a poor tactical decision to have one of the characters be a black woman because the overlap between people who love Rorschach and crypto racists / misogynists is probably really high. In my mind that would be absolutely intentional if this was a thing you wanted to spotlight though? Blotto_Otter posted:Given that the show has embraced the belief that Rorschach appeals to that type, I think (or hope) that they know better to turn a black woman into a carbon-copy of Rorschach. They've already shown plenty of ways in which she is not like Rorschach - her working as part of a larger team and having a relatively healthy family life are a far cry from Rorschach's near-total withdrawal from society. It would take quite an unfortunate turn for her to wind up in the same place as Rorschach at the end of this. In the comic books Rorschach is already Rorschach but we get scenes before he broke and he was a much more toned down team player. It's possible we get a Sisten Night who is just pre-break and something happens later in the season. I'm not gonna comment on whether that would be a good or bad direction to take the show, because I really don't know, but at least some of the dominoes are in place.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:59
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Did anyone already mention this w/r/t Hooded Justice? Angela repeatedly asks Will, “Who are you? Who are you?” And in American Hero Story, HJ repeatedly says something like “So who am I? Who am I?”
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Oct 29, 2019 17:28
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Yeah I mean I think it's telegraphed pretty loving hard in the same manner of dissolves from scene to scene and Black Freighter to main comic in the graphic novel. I think anybody thinking that's not what's going on is delusional. And you know, honestly I'm fine with it. Under the Hood seemed to be ambiguous both on whether Hooded Justice was the strongman as well as whether the body found in the water was the strongman. I'm sure Moore probably never intended to explore it further (though he did say for a while originally that he wanted to make a Watchmen sequel) but it's not some unforgivable retcon. Also, I was surprised to find out that pamphlet was loving real. Like, to the word. This overarching plot sounds ridiculous, but the most ridiculous parts are true. http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6655/ Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 17:59
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