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CoolCab posted:they were always a terrible liberal paper, it's just that blair was that bad. here's a blast from the past: support for eugenics was a socialist touchstone from the era of Sidney and Beatrice Webb, fwiw. Webb's argument for the minimum wage was e.g. premised on eugenic grounds AP Wadsworth was a Fabian in good standing throughout, but he missed the memo on utopian socialism being entirely irrelevant in a post-October-Revolution world, never mind a post-WW2 post-Beveridge social-democratic-consensus world
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Oct 30, 2019 19:16
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ronya posted:https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/1189544676883349505 It isn't though, afaik. The lefty people who are in English Labour here, are in the SNP there, so most Scottish Labour members tend Blairite.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:17
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Milk Pervert's been hitting that blue milk hard. https://twitter.com/danmcdaid/status/1189605542735548417 --- Also sorry for posting the unfunny inbetweener guy: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1189605927856607236 https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1189610806931054593 Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 30, 2019 |
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Oct 30, 2019 19:19
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Alan G posted:You’ve just quoted the scotlab equivalent of tweetman though. While Scotlab continue to take directions from those Blairite shits they will continue to lose in Scotland. And by lose I mean be in 3/4 place not just second it is a shame, they're actually close to the SNP in my constituency and could probably hurt the SNP in a lot of places by hammering them on housing and fracking. Homelessness has exploded since I moved here and every new build is just ugly luxury flats dominating every inch of available space, SNP response on this seems to be to regulate AirBnB.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:28
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Guavanaut posted:Throw the quiche out and let's get burgers. New thread title, please.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:30
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If you have to choose between giving money to Momentum or giving it to Labour, pick Labour. Momentum exists as a support service for Labour, so as with most kinds of donation, it's generally best to cut out the middle-man. As I mentioned before, a lot of CLPs are really strapped for cash, too, and they'll be the footsoldiers of a general election.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:33
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the "cracking open a cold one with the boys" meme was v underrated and died out way too quickly, gonna be honest
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Oct 30, 2019 19:33
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 I hope this doesn't involve too much human interaction
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Oct 30, 2019 19:35
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Not keen on the prospect of BXP going pure wrecker on the labour party tbh.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:35
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Somebody stole my "Corbyn will get 42,069 votes" joke in the sweepstake. I've added it back in, but now I kinda look like I'm copying "clear eyes full farts", and I want it known I checked how many votes he got before spotting that that was an actual reasonable number as well as being a meme.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:39
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Qwertycoatl posted:
You have to go for a pint with Dennis Skinner once a fortnight.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:41
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OwlFancier posted:Not keen on the prospect of BXP going pure wrecker on the labour party tbh. Yeah if Joris wins then I honestly expect poor people corpses to start piling up a lot faster, even completely ignoring Brexit.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:41
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Darth Walrus posted:If you have to choose between giving money to Momentum or giving it to Labour, pick Labour. Momentum exists as a support service for Labour, so as with most kinds of donation, it's generally best to cut out the middle-man. As I mentioned before, a lot of CLPs are really strapped for cash, too, and they'll be the footsoldiers of a general election. Does Momentum spending count towards the limit?
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Oct 30, 2019 19:41
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Overheard a guy in my office today say “wouldn’t it be funny if the SNP won and Nicola Sturgeon became our PM?” That’s...not how any of this works. Christ, people are so unbelievably misinformed about politics.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:43
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OwlFancier posted:Not keen on the prospect of BXP going pure wrecker on the labour party tbh. Yeah, extremely same.
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Oct 30, 2019 19:45
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I guess it's possible that BXP not running would be a boon to UKIP 
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Oct 30, 2019 19:48
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Pantsmaster Bill posted:Overheard a guy in my office today say “wouldn’t it be funny if the SNP won and Nicola Sturgeon became our PM?” When May resigned the questions I got asked were; 1) "Oh, so is it Corbyn's turn to be PM now?" (I loving wish) And then after explaining, no, it's a internal Tory thing because the Tories were the one currently in government. 2) Oh...so when do we vote for the PM them? Do we get a vote for that? (Not unless you're a Tory - which, thankfully, they aren't) Just a complete disengagement with politics outside of quote-unquote "Big events", like an election, or the referendum. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Oct 30, 2019 |
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Oct 30, 2019 19:53
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I really wish I could do that, just not know things about some stuff.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:03
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feedmegin posted:It isn't though, afaik. The lefty people who are in English Labour here, are in the SNP there, so most Scottish Labour members tend Blairite. * fill ScotLab party apparatus and leadership But yes, I am saying that it is acceptable to the English members for McDonnell and Abbott to indulge in tight budgets or police talk - there might be grumbling, but no real punishment to the party for it - or for the party to whip hard on that thing, you know, Brexit, in direct correlation to the apparent threat posed by the Lib Dems or Conservatives in England. But it is not acceptable for the Scottish section to triangulate for viability against a center-left rival party in Scotland, even on local policy topics which English members have no real stake beyond singing songs in Scots Gaelic in an English pub This is not some great deliberate evil, it's a reflection of the fact that the SNP and the Lib Dems are not identically threatening to each part of the party. If the SNP were much further to the left then ScotLab would also want to move much further to the left, or much further to the right; this is also how we see party branches evolve elsewhere (Quebec, Catalonia...). That's how triangulation works, one wants to be equidistant from the center as viable opponents to balance external electoral success with internal stakeholder demands, and intraparty politics revolves around that narrow window - it doesn't mean moving to the center always works; if the costs of managing internal stakeholder dissatisfaction are too high and viable opponents are sufficiently far from the center (cough, cough) then fireworks would result - it means maintaining the triangle. Unfortunately for ScotLab, the Scottish Tories under Ruth Davidson were quicker on the uptake finding the center-right niche, and indeed ScotLab finds that it cannot even be allowed to occupy the center-left niche. It's not left enough for the environment in England, where the government is much further right. The pattern of Scottish Labour party apparatchiks using it as a power base for a career in Westminster later means that the faction in charge in London would have to keep a close eye on the power strata - only party federalization that effectively isolates the sub-party staff and leaders would remove that threat, and at that point it might as well sail off into the sunset as the Scottish Devo-max Labour Party. Much better to just hope for the Scottish Tories to fall victim to the same pressure ... whoops, there goes Davidson. In the meanwhile, there's always the proportional Scottish Parliament, after all. Who needs MPs in Westminster?
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Oct 30, 2019 20:03
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I’ve succeeded in convincing two people to switch from Lib to Lab by sharing Swinson’s baleful voting record on Welfare & Benefits. These are people who like the Lib Dem stance on Brexit, but who still don’t want to vote for a monster. The more Labour can succeed at positioning the Lib Dems as austerity enablers, the better. Labour is better off if they can fight their opponents on fewer fronts.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:03
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Pesky Splinter posted:When May resigned the questions I got asked were; It does feel like the system is set up to encourage this, though. Everything's built on about six million layers of precedent and most of the MPs don't even understand it.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:06
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I would like to think that "you vote for a member of parliament and then all the members put a government together, usually along party lines" wouldn't be beyond people.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:08
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Qwertycoatl posted:
You'll be happy to know that merely being a member does not oblige you to even glimpse another human being I spent two years not being involved and just paying my membership fee in silence
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Oct 30, 2019 20:11
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The Grenfell news is making me have such a loving meltdown it's unreal. Apparently people want the head of the LFB to resign and they want to change the stay put policy?
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Oct 30, 2019 20:14
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:You'll be happy to know that merely being a member does not oblige you to even glimpse another human being Also you can Do An Activism online in Momentum - https://momentum.nationbuilder.com/volunteer I'm part of the online team vetting Tory/Lib Dem PPC''s social media feeds, for example, no interaction with actual scary in person meatpuppets required.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:16
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feedmegin posted:It isn't though, afaik. The lefty people who are in English Labour here, are in the SNP there, so most Scottish Labour members tend Blairite. gently caress sake, first I’ve got a trust fund and now I’m a blairite??
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Oct 30, 2019 20:18
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Sanitary Naptime posted:gently caress sake, first I’ve got a trust fund and now I’m a blairite?? I did say 'most' comrade  my own CLP in a safe Tory seat is the same way, sadly.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:24
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Gort posted:It does feel like the system is set up to encourage this, though. Everything's built on about six million layers of precedent and most of the MPs don't even understand it. Oh yeah, it pretty much feels that way. And the media is complicit in that, especailly for the people I work with, who tend to skew older and take they poo poo they read from the daily rags, or talking heads at face value. Or the complete opposite (just as damaging) and refuse to engage with it on any level - "Oh they're all liers, and all the same I'm not really interested" - and then bitch about waiting 6 hours to see a doctor, or potholes, etc, etc. OwlFancier posted:I would like to think that "you vote for a member of parliament and then all the members put a government together, usually along party lines" wouldn't be beyond people. Again, some people have zero loving political awareness (also not trying to make myself out to be some political cumming's-brain - I barely know what the gently caress, and this thread and you peeps help me understand better).
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Oct 30, 2019 20:25
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Borrovan posted:Does Momentum spending count towards the limit? Depends on if it promotes Labour or its representatives. For example if they did a pure attack video called 'Boris is a bampot" that did not promote Labour in any way it probably wouldn't, stick 'vote Labour" at the end and it would. Promoting ideas or philosophies like socialism would probably be fine too. It can also depend on their legal status, what are they officially legally? I don't even know. If they're part of the Labour party it counts. Different entities can be declared parts of different campaigns but not usually at a GE. There are a lot of grey areas, loopholes and conventions in election spending. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Oct 30, 2019 |
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Oct 30, 2019 20:25
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OwlFancier posted:I would like to think that "you vote for a member of parliament and then all the members put a government together, usually along party lines" wouldn't be beyond people.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:25
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Zalakwe posted:Depends on if it promotes Labour or its representatives. For example if they did a pure attack video called 'Boris is a bampot" that did not promote Labour in any way it probably wouldn't, stick 'vote Labour" at the end and it would. Promoting ideas or philosophies like socialism would probably be fine too. They are 'Jeremy for Labour Ltd'. All members are (now) required to be Party members but they are not part of the Party per se.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:37
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Nicky Morgan not standing for re-election; https://twitter.com/NickyMorgan01/status/1189625485124354048 5000 votes between her and Labour.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:42
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I think Momentum is a registered non-party campaigner so that's like a 300k spending limit nationwide (and 9750 or whatever in a constituency) though there are special rules that restrict that if you are running joint campaigns with another party (which makes me think they aren't)
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Oct 30, 2019 20:45
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Real buncha assholes all shuffling out. Wonder if they don't fancy their chances?
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Oct 30, 2019 20:45
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Donated to Labour this morning. Did it while I was meant to be working to stick it to the man.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:53
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Dropped £25 each on Labour and Momentum, doing a little bit to help them out. Also, loving lol at the ever growing list of MPs tapping out before they get crushed in the election.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:55
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A not-very-political friend posted on her timeline that she 'knows what has to be done' and shared a tactical vote thing recommending vote LibDem in her constituency (where that is a reasonable option). Various of her equally not-very-political friends including her partner have posted that they thought that in 2010 and voted LibDem and the LibDems 'stole their votes and gave them to Cameron'. I hope to see more of that. Sadly also seen the Corbyn is a terrorist-loving, economy-wrecking, national security risk crap.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:56
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DroneRiff posted:Dropped £25 each on Labour and Momentum, doing a little bit to help them out. Which makes me wonder how long it takes to get a tory prospective candidate selected? Obviously nothing like the long-winded Labour approach (and even more long and drawn out Welsh labour approach).
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Oct 30, 2019 20:57
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:A not-very-political friend posted on her timeline that she 'knows what has to be done' and shared a tactical vote thing recommending vote LibDem in her constituency (where that is a reasonable option). Various of her equally not-very-political friends including her partner have posted that they thought that in 2010 and voted LibDem and the LibDems 'stole their votes and gave them to Cameron'. I hope to see more of that. Just about all the tactical voting sites are Lib Dem propaganda telling you to vote for them no matter what the actual record is (based on EU election results, etc).
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Oct 30, 2019 21:02
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I'm not sure Farage going full wrecker is necessarily a good idea for him. Going to be a lot of pissed off people not turning out to vote everywhere he doesn't stand candidates
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Oct 30, 2019 21:03
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