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Welcome aboard!  If you do your e-learning now/soon, you should probably re-visit it before you go to your first pool session (whenever that may be). Your instructor will likely send you whatever links you need for your online training, although I don't think they'd turn you down on trying to get it done early  Where are you doing your class? I'm just curious what your intro to diving is going to be (ocean/lake/quarry/spring, etc). I did my open water class in Lake Jocassee, SC where I could barely see 5ft away...but getting certified in tougher conditions isn't a bad thing at all. I feel like I appreciate good conditions more since I started diving in a quarry, helped teach in a quarry, and then was working in NC where names like "Cape Fear" and "Graveyard of the Atlantic" and "Ocean of Terror" are common (i made up that last one, but that's probably how old sailors viewed my old coastline). Makes it slightly awkward when I hear people bitching that vis was "only" 40ft off of Key Largo, but whatever
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Oct 27, 2019 00:17
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I figure I'll just try and memorize and get as familiar with the bookwork as I can! Can never be too prepared, I imagine. I didnt ask if we would be in a lake or what, but I am I Maine so I know it'll be cold!
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Oct 27, 2019 00:44
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I just did my Advanced Open Water training last weekend, and I've booked a Bahamas cruise in about three weeks. I've been thinking about maybe possibly getting myself a dive computer before then (the dive shop where I did my training has a deal with a different shop where I can get stuff for 10% below minimum advertised price). So far, the features I'm looking for are as follows: 1. Rechargeable or user-replaceable battery 2. Air integration (preferably with transmitters where the battery is user-replaceable) - I wouldn't use it immediately, but I most likely will at some point 3. Digital compass that works well, preferably with the ability to see the heading without dedicating the whole entire screen to compass mode (even if it's just a barebones number) 4. Ability to program settings via app over Bluetooth I was kind of tempted by the computers offering GPS, but I don't think I'd get enough use out of it to justify making it a priority. The shop that does the discount was showing off the Aqualung I770r, which looks like pretty much what I'm looking for. Does it perform as advertised? Are there any others I ought to look at? Money-wise, I didn't have a specific budget in mind - I'm not afraid to spend more than the bare minimum, I just don't want some crazy tech diving gadget. Edit: I'm also thinking about getting a basic underwater camera (not professional-grade, just on par with a quality phone camera)?. What are some good options there? A mask mount might be nice to have , though not a major priority (I currently use an Atomic Aquatics Subframe, so it would have to work well with that). Cockmaster fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 01:12
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Honestly aside from gas switching, most of the features you've listed are already suggesting computers in the flashy tech range. I'd suggest looking at Shearwater, maybe the Petrel. Most of the lines that do tech stuff also have recreational versions. If you're investing in all the fancy recreational features it's probably worth one of the higher end brands than a super expensive Suunto.
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Nov 1, 2019 18:56
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My advice is to start with a $300 wrist computer.
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Nov 1, 2019 19:08
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I mean, yeah I'd advise a Geo 2 or a Suunto zoop as a first computer but if things like a digital compass is a deal breaker and future AI then you might as well plump for a really good recreational computer. Probably worth questioning why all those bells and whistles are needed though. Having a separate wrist compass like a Suunto SK7 is going to be cheaper and isn't really much hassle. That's probably the biggest cost jump as they're not really standard as a feature. If you can live without that there are plenty of good options.
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Nov 1, 2019 19:23
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MrNemo posted:Honestly aside from gas switching, most of the features you've listed are already suggesting computers in the flashy tech range. I'd suggest looking at Shearwater, maybe the Petrel. Most of the lines that do tech stuff also have recreational versions. If you're investing in all the fancy recreational features it's probably worth one of the higher end brands than a super expensive Suunto. Shearwater is definitely the way to go here, if these features are what you are looking for. The Petrel does not do air integration, but the Perdix does and has a lower profile. It's on my wish list for my next computer whenever I get back in the water (small kids incompatible with scuba!).
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Nov 1, 2019 19:36
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Cockmaster posted:I just did my Advanced Open Water training last weekend, and I've booked a Bahamas cruise in about three weeks. I've been thinking about maybe possibly getting myself a dive computer before then (the dive shop where I did my training has a deal with a different shop where I can get stuff for 10% below minimum advertised price). So far, the features I'm looking for are as follows: I had a long post and my phone ate it. Short version: most of what you're specifying is (IMHO) an unnecessary bell and whistle. I'd recommend a real compass, a real SPG, and also looking at Nitrox support in your computer. Maybe that's ubiquitous now, I'm old. I used to recommend the Nitek Duo as a starter computer. It's discontinued now, but that's roughly the level of specs I think you need. Bluetooth downloading of logs is nice too if you're feeling fancy. I'd also really advise against a brand new diver getting a camera, and suggest getting your bouyancy and comfort situated before adding a huge distraction. That being said, the TG series is solid entry level, and you can probably get a 4 or 5 cheap from someone upgrading to a tg6. All this is my own crotchety opinion, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt. Edit: a brand new diver does not need an $800-$1000 Shearwater computer that lets them spec Trimix and tweak their deco algorithm. $300 wrist computer is on the money. They even said they don't want a tech diving gadget. Get off my lawn :-) DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 21:18
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Hah, no I'm 100% in agreement that what's being specced isn't necessary for a new diver. If those listed features are 100% necessary then I think he's better getting a Shearwater and ignoring the features that are actually why it's super expensive rather than getting some of the new top of the line faux-tec computers. Apart from Bluetooth though I don't think any of those are important for a new diver. That said Bluetooth only seems to available for computers in that high price range. I love it because I use a log book app and do with diving that the convenience makes sense. For a new diver, you're much better off looking at a user changeable battery and a computer with gauge mode. That way if you love diving and stick with it and someday need trimix or desperately want Bluetooth, you've got a back up depth gauge/timer. You'll also be buying your fancy dive computer in a few years with whatever new widgets technology advances have brought us.
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Nov 2, 2019 00:00
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Geo 2 is great because you can set it to DSAT algorithm. An Aqualung i200c has p much the same internals but only allows PZ+ (or whatever it's called), which is more conservative. I think the older Aqualung i200 model allows algorithm switching. Otherwise all three models allow gas switching and user replaceable batts. As for camera, I see a lot of Olympus point and click with housings. I'll look it up later, but I know that the ones we use for work actually have a compass built into the camera as well.
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Nov 2, 2019 01:16
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MrNemo posted:Probably worth questioning why all those bells and whistles are needed though. My main interests with the color-screen computers are as follows: a. Having all of my information in one place (in the case of air integration, I would imagine that not having a traditional console would also make you a bit more streamlined) b. Being able to easily change settings and verify that said settings are actually what I intended to set (which is much easier when the computer can display actual words instead of making you translate some crazy code off of a 7-segment display) c. Being able to easily get dive data out of the computer with no confusion as to what's what (I used a barebones single-button computer during my open water dives, and I had no idea whether I was looking at my last dive or my second-to-last dive) MrNemo posted:You'll also be buying your fancy dive computer in a few years with whatever new widgets technology advances have brought us. Is there anything particularly noteworthy that's likely to come out within the next few years? The only thing I can think of would be various efforts at some form of GPS-ish underwater navigation, and I haven't seen any indication as to when you might realistically expect to see that in your local dive shop. I was also kind of tempted by the SCUBAPRO Galileo HUD DeadlyMuffin posted:I'd also really advise against a brand new diver getting a camera, and suggest getting your bouyancy and comfort situated before adding a huge distraction. That being said, the TG series is solid entry level, and you can probably get a 4 or 5 cheap from someone upgrading to a tg6. The main downside to the TG series is that it's only depth rated to 50 feet. Has anyone used a GoPro with its underwater case? That looks like pretty much what I'd want at a tolerable price (small enough that it shouldn't affect buoyancy control or streamlining, yet able to go as deep as I can).
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Nov 2, 2019 02:07
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We use Geo2's as our primary at work (National Park Service), set to PZ+. They handle everything we need, up to and including short deco dives and gas switching. If you're really wanting to get into something more, they've got the OCi which can do all of the same things a Geo2 does, plus a digital compass and a connection wire to your computer...for about $400-500 more  A Geo 2 (or whatever equivalent the other companies make) should be plenty, until you get into tec stuff...then a Shearwater of some type is probably a decent bet. I wish I would've held off on buying my OCi in general, and after having had 4 different things go wrong with mine (depth sensor fail, planning mode lock for 6 hours, randomly deciding that my dive was now a deco dive at only 30ft down, and a backlight failure), I'm slightly fed up with it. I sent it back to the shop I got it from after the first 3 issues, and the replacement that Oceanic sent had a backlight failure on a night dive at the Hilma Hooker in Bonaire, while the woman I loaned it to was having a panic attack underwater. I'm over my OCi, and debating on getting it fixed (again) or just selling it off entirely and putting the money towards a Shearwater (in a year or two, maybe).
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Nov 2, 2019 02:09
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You're paying $1000 dollars for not having to glance at an air gauge and this is assuming AI is available and works. It may have improved but it's a very common complaint that it's flakey and requires a backup air gauge that is frequently used anyway. I also don't know of a single computer that is 7 segments. The $300 range dive watches suggested display all the information required on one screen.
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Nov 2, 2019 02:19
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Addressing the 3 points: Air integration does not mean not having a mechanical gauge. Tech is nowhere near the point where you shouldn't make sure you have a hp house with a gauge attached. There are some computers on a console so if reducing the number of things to look at is the main concern those could be options, personally I'd prefer a wrist computer and a mechanical gauge. Settings codes, I can understand having had a single use finding it intimidating but you're talking about spending $1000 Vs $300 for the sake of not referencing a manual a few times until you familiarise with some abbreviations. Really, really have a think if it's worth that much to avoid a little bit of learning to use something. A Geo 2 or a Suunto will be fairly in terms of looking at your dives. If all of them are pretty similar profiles,l it can be a bit trickier but when uploading them, you'll get the times as well which makes things super clear. Also when you say Bluetooth, computers like the oceanic typically have USB cable data transfer. If you've got a laptop or PC, that works fine for data transfer. Personally I love Bluetooth because I use a cloud based dive log and the app on my phone can sync with my ostc but that's definitely not enough of a reason I would have bought it by itself. (I also bought it second hand, new would still be too much) Really have a think, the Geo 2 is a solid computer, not as conservative as a Suunto (in my club they're nicked named danger-max because they have some impressively long no Deco times on a first dive) and they do gauge mode and gas switching so you're going to be good for even basic 'Tec' diving.
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Nov 2, 2019 03:31
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Cockmaster posted:My main interests with the color-screen computers are as follows: Diving an air integrated computer without a real pressure gauge is risky. I've seen reliability issues with them. A SPG clipped to your hip is plenty streamlined. Cockmaster posted:The main downside to the TG series is that it's only depth rated to 50 feet. Has anyone used a GoPro with its underwater case? That looks like pretty much what I'd want at a tolerable price (small enough that it shouldn't affect buoyancy control or streamlining, yet able to go as deep as I can). There are housings for the TG cameras, the 50' rating is for the camera itself. A quick Google search shows tg5 housings are good to 45 meters. Gopros take pretty lousy stills.
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Nov 2, 2019 03:33
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MrNemo posted:Air integration does not mean not having a mechanical gauge. Tech is nowhere near the point where you shouldn't make sure you have a hp house with a gauge attached. DeadlyMuffin posted:Diving an air integrated computer without a real pressure gauge is risky. I've seen reliability issues with them. A SPG clipped to your hip is plenty streamlined. Hmmm... Everyone else I've talked to (including one of the instructors from my open water class) claims that the technology has gotten reliable enough that a backup SPG isn't really necessary.
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Nov 2, 2019 04:22
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I'd never go without an analog SPG backup. There are tons of reasons your air-integrated computer could fail/give bad data, but your spg isn't going to lie to you. It doesn't require a battery, doesn't have any moving parts, never requires a software update, most failure modes are astoundingly obvious, and you can even use the thing to check if your tank valve is open all the way if you're suspicious (watch for the needle to look like it's having a seizure to tell). None of those apply to a computer/transmitter-only system. Suunto had a recall 2 years ago for transmitter failures while tanks were pressurized, 2 of them exploded when subjected to pre-dive testing. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/suunto-recalls-wireless-tank-transmitter-and-tank-pod Cockmaster posted:Hmmm... Everyone else I've talked to (including one of the instructors from my open water class) claims that the technology has gotten reliable enough that a backup SPG isn't really necessary. That's dangerous, bordering on outright negligent in my mind.
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Nov 2, 2019 04:48
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Icon Of Sin posted:I'd never go without an analog SPG backup. There are tons of reasons your air-integrated computer could fail/give bad data, but your spg isn't going to lie to you. It doesn't require a battery, doesn't have any moving parts, never requires a software update, most failure modes are astoundingly obvious, and you can even use the thing to check if your tank valve is open all the way if you're suspicious (watch for the needle to look like it's having a seizure to tell). None of those apply to a computer/transmitter-only system. Suunto had a recall 2 years ago for transmitter failures while tanks were pressurized, 2 of them exploded when subjected to pre-dive testing. Totally agree with this. AI is a fun feature, but nothing to bet your life on. A basic SPG is totally streamlined is dead simple to operate. If you have instructors telling you that you don't need an SPG anymore, you should find better instructors.
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Nov 2, 2019 05:03
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Cockmaster posted:Hmmm... Everyone else I've talked to (including one of the instructors from my open water class) claims that the technology has gotten reliable enough that a backup SPG isn't really necessary. That's negligent from an instructor, and I would be stunned if a certification agency had that stance. Edit: maybe if you meant an air integrated computer on a console and not a wireless one? I still wouldn't feel comfortable but that's more reasonable than the wireless I was assuming... DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 06:26
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I would never dive without a SPG no matter who told me it was okay. We bought Zoop computers and despite me wanting, and being able to afford, a baller Perdix 2 I have not been able to convince myself to spend the cash on one. If you have the disposable income get one but its also pointless purchase if you are rec diving.
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Nov 2, 2019 15:13
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DeadlyMuffin posted:There are housings for the TG cameras, the 50' rating is for the camera itself. A quick Google search shows tg5 housings are good to 45 meters. I've noticed that the only readily available housings for the older TGs are from China, mostly from a company called Seafrogs. Does anyone know if they're trustworthy? (we are talking about something protecting a pre-owned camera, not life support equipment, but still...)
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Nov 2, 2019 15:46
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Anyone have experience with the Mares Puck Pro? The reviews seem positive, and my wife needs a beginners computer. Nothing fancy needed.
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Nov 2, 2019 17:16
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Cockmaster posted:I've noticed that the only readily available housings for the older TGs are from China, mostly from a company called Seafrogs. Does anyone know if they're trustworthy? (we are talking about something protecting a pre-owned camera, not life support equipment, but still...) Not saying buy from them, but these are less sketchy options: https://www.backscatter.com/group/Olympus-TG4-Waterproof-Camera For the 5 and 6 I'd recommend the Olympus housings. They're not too expensive either https://www.amazon.com/Olympus-Underwater-Housing-PT-058-Digital/dp/B071DVBMB8 If you are going to dive with a camera, practice on land first (dive your living room) to get familiar with the camera+ housing. And in the water watch your bouyancy. I've seen a lot of divers go all over the reef when they have a camera in their hands.
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Nov 2, 2019 17:53
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sharkytm posted:Anyone have experience with the Mares Puck Pro? The reviews seem positive, and my wife needs a beginners computer. Nothing fancy needed. I've seen poor reviews on usability and some reports of weird Deco results. That's anecdotal but the single button design would put me off anyway. I think a zoop is similar budget and has much better feedback. My first computer was an Aladin, which was solid and a Geo 2 was the replacement after I lost the Aladin. I'd recommend either as alternatives.
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Nov 2, 2019 19:01
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MrNemo posted:I've seen poor reviews on usability and some reports of weird Deco results. That's anecdotal but the single button design would put me off anyway. I think a zoop is similar budget and has much better feedback. My first computer was an Aladin, which was solid and a Geo 2 was the replacement after I lost the Aladin. I'd recommend either as alternatives. I actually don't mind the 1-button design. Deco isn't anything she'll be doing. The Zoop is quite a bit more expensive ($240 vs $175), but I'll see if she's got a preference. She dives for work, but very shallow, and the computer probably won't even register she's diving. This is for recreational, where air is more the limit than NDLs. Thanks for the info though. I may be in the market for a computer as well, we'll see.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:21
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What’s her job, out of curiosity? I’ve done pool dives searching every square inch under the waterline for leaks with an ink syringe, I’m hoping she’s not doing anything so boring underwater 
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Nov 2, 2019 20:25
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Icon Of Sin posted:What’s her job, out of curiosity? I’ve done pool dives searching every square inch under the waterline for leaks with an ink syringe, I’m hoping she’s not doing anything so boring underwater She's an AAUS-certified scientific diver, and a marine biogeochemist. Her diving mostly consists of 4 activities: 1. Collecting sediment cores. Weight 10# heavy, lie on your belly the bottom and push in a 4" ID polycarbonate tube, then dig under and cap the bottom. 2. Deploying/recovering porewater peepers. Same as above, just with a 1x12", 18" tall block of plastic with a membrane over it. You have to assemble it under water, so installing 50+ 6-32 screws while sitting on the bottom. 3. Collecting eelgrass plants for tissue analysis/photographing/science poo poo. Carefully extract the plant and rhizome from the sediment, avoiding blue/green crabs, jellyfish, and mantis shrimp. All by feel, of course, because you've stirred up the bottom. 4. Counting eelgrass blade density. Literally counting blades of grass. Toss a .25m² quadrat off the boat, then find it and count. All in a harbor that is 12' at its deepest point in the channel. Most of her work is in ~2-5' of water. The seafloor is mostly sandy mud, with some sandy spots where they don't need to collect samples. Diving for work sounds fun... At least in the pool, the viz isn't poo poo, and there might be spare change on the bottom.
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Nov 2, 2019 21:09
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I have a friend with the Aladdin Sport who likes it. I believe it has Bluetooth too.
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Nov 2, 2019 21:36
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sharkytm posted:She's an AAUS-certified scientific diver, and a marine biogeochemist. Her diving mostly consists of 4 activities: The joys of research diving! I did my master's in the Keys, so everyone thinks reefs and clear water. I dove out at the reef maybe five times in three summers. The vast majority of my work was up in Florida Bay, so I was standing on my head in six feet of murky water looking under things. That being said, I love doing the work dives, because not only am I allowed to touch the wildlife, it's actually literally why I'm there. Science is fun.
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Nov 2, 2019 22:16
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I have a friend with the Aladdin Sport who likes it. I believe it has Bluetooth too. For $435, it better. Well out of our price range.
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Nov 2, 2019 22:30
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sharkytm posted:She's an AAUS-certified scientific diver, and a marine biogeochemist. Her diving mostly consists of 4 activities: She has my deepest sympathies  Timmy Age 6 posted:The joys of research diving! I did my master's in the Keys, so everyone thinks reefs and clear water. I dove out at the reef maybe five times in three summers. The vast majority of my work was up in Florida Bay, so I was standing on my head in six feet of murky water looking under things. That being said, I love doing the work dives, because not only am I allowed to touch the wildlife, it's actually literally why I'm there. Science is fun. Yea I dive Biscayne, and everyone also thinks pretty reefs, lots of fish, good biodiversity, etc in this area since we're just north of Pennekamp/Key Largo. On the other hand...there are an estimated ~200,000 lionfish in park waters, a lot of the reefs are still broken up from Irma, some of our fish survey sites are actually void of fish now (possibly due to lionfish, but also maybe from those reefs getting shattered during Irma), and stony coral tissue loss disease (SCLTD) has utterly ravaged some of the park reefs. We also hauled up (on average) 1 anchor per day in the last year (366 anchors in the last 365 days), and we routinely pull hundreds of lbs of marine debris off the reefs per day during our dedicated marine debris dives. Sure, some of that is from Irma...but the fishing poles, nets, weights, broken traps (sometimes sitting directly on top of/between coral heads), and miles of trap line we've pulled out haven't been down there too long when we find most of it.
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Nov 3, 2019 01:30
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sharkytm posted:For $435, it better. Well out of our price range. If you're on a budget, look for a used Nitek Duo or IQ-700 DC Hunter. They're the same computer, and super solid. I'm bummed they're no longer made, but I see them around on the second hand market. Retail was around $350 new, so used ought to be much cheaper
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Nov 3, 2019 06:55
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Also used generally. A lot of people give up diving and most companies will cover dive computers with most major failure issues. All of my dive computers so far have been bought second hand, either off ebay or facebook group/diving forums. Savings aren't as huge as other gear but half the price of a new one for the same functionality and if she needs it for work she probably won't mind.
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Nov 3, 2019 09:49
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Cool, I've kind of stayed away from a used computer, but it's worth a look. I see plenty of very dated computers with regs/consoles on eBay, but I don't want to buy something that's 10+ years old, and unsupported by the MFR. She loves her job. She's only diving ~15 days/summer, and spends the rest of her time running her 15' skiff or in the lab doing chemistry, so it's a nice mix. Sure, the diving isn't anything to write home about, but it's a means to an end.
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Nov 3, 2019 20:03
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sharkytm posted:Cool, I've kind of stayed away from a used computer, but it's worth a look. I see plenty of very dated computers with regs/consoles on eBay, but I don't want to buy something that's 10+ years old, and unsupported by the MFR. I got a secondhand (not working) Suunto Vyper which was no longer factory supported, and they offered me a trade-in on a new Vyper Novo for like $250 off what the new computer would have been.
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Nov 3, 2019 20:11
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When buying a used dive computer, would it be necessary to have a dive shop examine it, or would it be enough to bring it in the bathtub and verify that it turns on? And I keep hearing all this talk of which computers use which decompression algorithms. Would a beginner diver need to give one quintillionth of a gently caress about that? I've also noticed that the Aqualung i300C offers Bluetooth (both for setup and log retreival) for not much more than an average entry-level computer ($300 on Amazon). Does anyone have any experience with that one?
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Nov 3, 2019 20:11
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Cockmaster posted:When buying a used dive computer, would it be necessary to have a dive shop examine it, or would it be enough to bring it in the bathtub and verify that it turns on? I don't have experience with the Bluetooth version, but I have a standard Aqualung i300 and it's fantastic.
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Nov 3, 2019 20:20
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Cockmaster posted:When buying a used dive computer, would it be necessary to have a dive shop examine it, or would it be enough to bring it in the bathtub and verify that it turns on? Personally that would be enough for me but I'd make sure I had some back up timer and depth gauge, even a buddy with a definitely working computer. Regarding algorithms, as a novice they aren't very important and you'll almost certainly not see a difference. As your diving progress and you're going deeper and getting better with air consumption you'll start being limited by Deco limits. DSAT, like the Geo 2 uses has quite aggressive limits for the first dive and then becomes very conservative. Suunto's are just very conservative. Not sure about others.
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Nov 3, 2019 22:11
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MrNemo posted:Suunto's are just very conservative. Not sure about others. Can confirm this. The only thing in my Vyper Novo I wish I could configure that I can’t is the safety stop depth. Suunto sets it at 10ft, which is a lovely place to hang out for three minutes. I end up ignoring it routinely and doing my stop at 20 or 15ft like a normal person on someone else’s timer.
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Nov 3, 2019 23:08
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The various algorithms differ in their conservative factors (and other assumptions) and some companies’ computers will just be more conservative (shorter NDLs for the exact same dive profile, when compared against other companies’ computers). If you’re doing multiple dives in a day, it can be the difference between your later dives being cut short or not (based on your calculated/adjusted NDLs).
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Nov 3, 2019 23:32
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