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Mandrel posted:i mean yeah i also would prefer uncompromisingly good interesting movies that meet my ideals and hopes but you and i don’t get a say in that. i’m just going off what the likely possible scenarios are given Disney’s wheelhouse of talent and decision making and I’d prefer the one that gives me more entertaining movies These are all reasonable expectations that I can acknowledge, but I don't agree with at all. More than half of the MCU is absolutely worse than anything Disney's Lucasfilm division has put out imo. I say this as someone who slept through Solo twice and hates Rogue One. And of course we don't actually have a say in how these movies are made, but that doesn't mean I can't have my criticisms about how The Mouse™ is handling one of my favorite franchises. And look, I'm not stupid. I know Feige is a really loving good businessman/producer, and he's an expert at crafting super successful commercial products that are critical darlings. But Feige also represents the kind of corporate oversight in moviemaking that I don't want to see happen to everything Disney touches. There should always be room for something different. My biggest concern behind the MCU-ification of Star Wars at the hands of Feige is that the franchise will almost surely lose its personality and identity—which some would argue it already has (I don't), but just imagine it even further removed from what it already has become at that point then. I feel like Filoni represents the antithesis of what Feige is; the dude is an absolute artist at heart, not a businessman. That's why I'd rather have him provide the oversight. [edit] I also don't think Kennedy would get the boot. The original arrangement actually had Lucas being the "keeper of the flame" as Kennedy said, where he would provide creative insight and ideas for future SW projects. But Kennedy and co. ended up not liking George's ideas and told him to gently caress off lol. Basically slot Filoni into the role George would have been in is what I'm saying. teagone fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 00:02
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Ingmar terdman posted:In my opinion episode VIII uses more roman numeral characters than any other episode What about Star Wars Episode VI, featuring the Death Star II? Spreading the same number of numerals across two names is more impressive imo
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Nov 2, 2019 02:23
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CharlestonJew posted:are you saying that teagone's statements are an objective fact? objectivity is when someone is really swole and you agree with what they say while thinking "woah they swole" right?
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Nov 2, 2019 03:49
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If I'm Disney the first thing I do after TROS comes out is dump Kathleen Kennedy and give someone else who is competent actual creative control
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Nov 2, 2019 03:56
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George Lucas is to blame for all this. That greedy pig wasn’t rich enough I guess.
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Nov 2, 2019 04:58
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It's not hard to realize that everything people post in this thread and other threads about movies are of course posting nothing more than their opinion. "This movie sucks" isn't meant to be an objective statement of fact and that the poster doesn't qualify their statement doesn't mean they are claiming an objective truth, of course it's just their opinion man. Jesus. What matters in all this is can they give some reasoning so you can understand how and why they came to their opinion, even if you still don't share it. You don't need to cite sources or anything, just lay it all out.CityMidnightJunky posted:You must realise that this isn't true, and that your views on the MCU are just personal preference, right? You claim it isn't true, so you must have access to some objective truth about the MCU to lay on us, so please go ahead. (Your post is also just your opinion, see how that works?) If you disagree with teagone's assessment of the MCU and thus his fears of what could become of Star Wars, you need to show WHY his opinion might be wrong, you know by talking about how the MCU isn't just the same movie made over and over again. But this might be difficult because teagone is clearly objectively correct.   TLDR: Just assume everyone's post starts with "in my opinion..." and go from there. Pointing out what they posted is just their opinion is stating the bleeding obvious, argue against their opinion with your own, anything else is just "nuh uh" and worthless in a loving discussion forum.
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Nov 2, 2019 07:15
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for real we’re all just arguing about the space kids movies on the Internet while we kill time at work or whatever. if anyone here legitimately cares that much about this poo poo take a minute and evaluate what you’re doing here
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Nov 2, 2019 17:38
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Hodgepodge posted:objectivity is when someone is really swole and you agree with what they say while thinking "woah they swole" right?
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Nov 2, 2019 21:12
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Mameluke posted:What about Star Wars Episode VI, featuring the Death Star II? Spreading the same number of numerals across two names is more impressive imo You forget Episode VII featuring the Death Star III.
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Nov 2, 2019 21:24
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The phantoM MenaCe attaCk of the CLones reVenge of the sIth a new hope the eMpIre strIkes baCk return of the jeDI the forCe awakens the Last jeDI the rIse of skywaLker
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Nov 2, 2019 21:32
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FlamingLiberal posted:If I'm Disney the first thing I do after TROS comes out is dump Kathleen Kennedy and give someone else who is competent actual creative control I wouldn't mind them pulling a Terminator Dark Fate
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Nov 3, 2019 05:49
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Bob Iger Reiterates His Sentiment That 'Less' Star Wars Is Betterquote:“I have said publicly that I think we made and released too many Star Wars films over a short period of time,” he said. “I have not said that they were disappointing in any way. I’ve not said that I’m disappointed in their performance. I just think that there’s something so special about a Star Wars film, and less is more.”  That's a lot of corporate speak.
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Nov 4, 2019 09:11
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I really feel like they should wait, like, 5 years before they even decide to make another trilogy, which may or may not be a KOTOR trilogy.
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Nov 4, 2019 09:20
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Gonz posted:I really feel like they should wait, like, 5 years before they even decide to make another trilogy, which may or may not be a KOTOR trilogy. I honestly think the franchise may be dead then
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Nov 4, 2019 11:08
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Barudak posted:I honestly think the franchise may be dead then lmao. Yes, Star Wars is dead because the ST wasn't better than the OT yet much better than the prequels. Man, I don't care if JJ digs up the Emperor and Vader and makes the entire third act a musical number -- Star Wars isn't getting killed that easily. Not by a long shot. The perception that "Last Jedi" was a failure is a youtube-driven hot-take myth. It is an opinion with no basis in reality, and from what I can tell it isn't even a majority one: 91% on Rotten Tomatoes and 85 on Metacritic. It made a shitload of money, so it was a monetary success -- especially considering that sequels rarely make more than their predecessors -- having the seventh biggest opening of all time to date and making back its budget several times over. It made creative decisions to push characters to new places, and despite some legitimate flaws, it proved that you can make a Star Wars movie with some original ideas to expand on moving forward. "Solo" was a goddamn production nightmare, went way over budget, and ended up being nothing special, but those were only the superficial reasons it failed. What's the number one question you ask yourself before writing a story? "Does this story need to be told?" i.e. is this going to be worthwhile to experience (whatever the medium may be) and what can be taken away from it: is it worth it? Han Solo is a character that didn't need a background story. In fact I'd argue that you're only going to gently caress it up regardless of what happens. There's no way to "win" at writing a script like that. It was literally doomed to fail from the beginning when someone wrote it down on a whiteboard. So here we are. All of us posting in a thread dedicated to the next Star Wars movie. Which we're all going to see no matter what. Yet the franchise is dead? Gonna hard disagree with the next trilogy being KOTOR though. If there's going to be a trilogy of Episodes X-XII then it should probably be a continuation of whatever set of circumstances we're left with at the end of "Skywalker." Even if you solely have cameos of the current characters it should be connected in some way. Otherwise it just seems pointless. Wouldn't mind a KOTOR trilogy being made though eventually -- just don't make it some numbered successor.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:09
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Preston Waters posted:It made creative decisions to push characters to new places, and despite some legitimate flaws, it proved that you can make a Star Wars movie with some original ideas to expand on moving forward. What new places and original ideas where those, specifically?
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Nov 4, 2019 15:03
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Preston Waters posted:It made creative decisions to push characters to new places, and despite some legitimate flaws, it proved that you can make a Star Wars movie with some original ideas to expand on moving forward. Ah yes, the original idea of *checks notes* having a your mom joke.
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Nov 4, 2019 16:00
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I can't think of a single original concept in TLJ besides Canto Blight, a segment everybody hates. By the end the story has regressed so much that we're back to rebels vs. empire all over again. Force projection is cool I guess.
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Nov 4, 2019 16:48
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there is not an original idea in TLJ that said gently caress off Bob Iger, Star Wars isn’t special and sacred. there are 800 new Marvel movies every year and they all do gangbusters because they’re fun and people like them. they make people feel good and entertained. when one is bad people go oh well, I didn’t like that one but that other one is gonna be sick, I’m excited for that one. don’t take your ball and go home because people didn’t like your bad movie. just make better loving movies you idiot.
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Nov 4, 2019 16:54
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Preston Waters posted:lmao. Yes, Star Wars is dead because the ST wasn't better than the OT yet much better than the prequels. The movie had a $700 million drop from TFA (which is quite significant), and the marvel movies - despite being the generic trash they are - are making more money with each subsequent release. And lol at citing RT critics for determining what is good.
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Nov 4, 2019 17:01
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Schwarzwald posted:What new places and original ideas where those, specifically? Just look at what we know about TROS to see how the status quo has been completely shattered: a bunch of underdog rebels (including a hotshot pilot, a wookiee, comedic droids and a jedi with a blue lightsaber) versus an evil empire led by a man in black with a red lightsaber (but Emperor Palpatine is the true villain) and access to planet destroying superweapon(s).
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Nov 4, 2019 17:44
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tbf even if TLJ was a better movie than TFA it's highly likely it would have made less money still just on the sheer virtue of being the first Star Wars movie in over a decade
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Nov 4, 2019 17:57
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exquisite tea posted:I can't think of a single original concept in TLJ besides Canto Blight, a segment everybody hates. By the end the story has regressed so much that we're back to rebels vs. empire all over again. Force projection is cool I guess. Canto Bight isn't new; pointing out that all these ships and guns are necessarily produced in factories somewhere was half of Episode 2. Canto Bight actually does it worse - telling you these people are arms dealers, instead of showing it. Asserting that Star Wars takes place in a matrix-like virtual reality is weird and dumb, but not too shocking. People just take it as more mystical hoo-ha to tune out. The actual new idea in TLJ is to put the rebels in the spotlight when, previously, they were mainly background characters in Luke's story. (Not even Rogue One did this.) That's why it's a relatively shocking twist that the rebels suck rear end. Like, they're just awful.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:19
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It's no secret that the ST movies are super derivative. Everyone knows that at this point. Everyone keeps on saying it. It's a valid criticism no doubt. For TFA and TLJ being as derivate as they are, it falls upon to viewer to accept whether or not the works these movies were derived from executed their takes in entertaining fashion. For me they did, as such I enjoy the ST movies. But I also get why people hate on the ST movies. Some do so for almost the same reasons they hate on James Cameron's Avatar, another hugely popular blockbuster film that is largely derivative of many other works prior. Just lmao if you think SW will die off, but I do agree that Disney went in too hard too fast with the IP. Shoulda stuck to George's model of one film per 3 years imo. Or follow the LOTR model and film all 3 back-to-back with tight-rear end writing.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:06
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exquisite tea posted:I can't think of a single original concept in TLJ besides Canto Blight, a segment everybody hates. tlj tries to introduce some new ideas to the star wars canon. It fails at following through on the ideas... and in some cases directly contradicts itself... but still. • "big grandiose combat missions where a bunch of people die, but an enemy ship gets blown up, are often dumb as hell" • "keeping friends alive is more important than killing enemies"' These two points are central to the movie, and put it completely at odds with other Star Wars movies like A New Hope and, especially, Rogue One, which basically makes the exact opposite point Other new ideas that are somewhat cool: • Force users can fly through space like superman! They'll die of exposure in 1 minute, but it's something they can do • Some force users can use the force to communicate face-to-face (this has been done before, but not in the style of the Rey / Kylo exposition scenes, which are really well done) • the idea that there are probably shitloads of little kids and common folk out there with force powers, and they have basically unlimited potential to change the world (the final shot of the film was probably the best part about tlj... too bad the idea will be completely dropped for the next movie) Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 19:31
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Preston Waters posted:lmao. Yes, Star Wars is dead because the ST wasn't better than the OT yet much better than the prequels. Good points. And I actually like solo. Honestly, doing a trilogy of movies in the far past and one in a 100 + years after rise of skywalker would be cool. Still Jedi versus darkness, but where you go with it could be super fun. Have droids rebel. Make a new kind of threat that’s not empire based. Have the Jedi decide they need to take over the galaxy, and have the two Sith be the savors. Whatever. Make it weird and cool.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:14
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Preston Waters posted:Gonna hard disagree with the next trilogy being KOTOR though. If there's going to be a trilogy of Episodes X-XII then it should probably be a continuation of whatever set of circumstances we're left with at the end of "Skywalker." Even if you solely have cameos of the current characters it should be connected in some way. Otherwise it just seems pointless. Wouldn't mind a KOTOR trilogy being made though eventually -- just don't make it some numbered successor. They can just do what comics and video games do and call the KOTOR movie Episode 0.  Agreed though I don't think they should do prequel stories in the main trilogy again since we have new characters and TLJ did make an attempt to move stuff forward I'd rather see that. Obviously I'd fuckin' love a KOTOR movie(s) in general though.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:38
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Polo-Rican posted:• the idea that there are probably shitloads of little kids and common folk out there with force powers, and they have basically unlimited potential to change the world (the final shot of the film was probably the best part about tlj... too bad the idea will be completely dropped for the next movie) Imagine how different Episode I would’ve been if Qui Gon and Obi Wan went to Tatooine, but saved the horse that farted in Jar Jar’s face instead of Anakin.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:48
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Can't wait for them to recanonize the KOTOR era so everyone's using TIE Fighters and Alphabet Ships though Let's see what the T-1 X-Wing looks like
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Nov 4, 2019 22:54
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Polo-Rican posted:tlj tries to introduce some new ideas to the star wars canon. It fails at following through on the ideas... and in some cases directly contradicts itself... but still. characters in the movie appear to be trying to make this point but it’s nonsensical in the context of the movie and actively disproven by the events that happen around and subsequently to them. kind of a nonsensical point in general in the Star Wars. what’s this meant to be a counterpoint to in canon or otherwise? should Luke and Wedge called the trench run off when Porkins got vaporized or what? is the message that victory isn’t worth it if it comes with sacrifice? quote:• "keeping friends alive is more important than killing enemies"' this is the central dramatic conflict for the third act of ESB. Luke defies the wisdom of Yoda and Obi Wan’s focus on the mission to save his friends from danger. in ROTJ it’s also the dramatic resolution of Anakin and Luke’s whole story, when Luke refuses to fight or even save the Rebellion if it means killing his father. it’s Obi-Wan’s whole sacrifice in ANH TLJ is the only one to have a character just state the narrative subtext out loud in front of a massive explosion though so you know, you have to give it that quote:These two points are central to the movie, and put it completely at odds with other Star Wars movies like A New Hope and, especially, Rogue One, which basically makes the exact opposite point incorrect quote:• Force users can fly through space like superman! They'll die of exposure in 1 minute, but it's something they can do done in the EU quote:• Some force users can use the force to communicate face-to-face (this has been done before, but not in the style of the Rey / Kylo exposition scenes, which are really well done) done in the EU, described by various authors in the exact same way quote:• the idea that there are probably shitloads of little kids and common folk out there with force powers, and they have basically unlimited potential to change the world (the final shot of the film was probably the best part about tlj... too bad the idea will be completely dropped for the next movie) uhh kind of central to the whole premise of Star Wars universe since its inception. being a Jedi wasn’t a family profession (before the Skywalkers anyway). TLJ is the only one to convey it via a little Coca Cola commercial epilogue though so that’s cool
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Nov 4, 2019 23:24
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Mandrel posted:for real we’re all just arguing about the space kids movies on the Internet while we kill time at work or whatever. if anyone here legitimately cares that much about this poo poo take a minute and evaluate what you’re doing here Speak for yourself I quit my job to post in here
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Nov 5, 2019 03:22
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Hodgepodge posted:objectivity is when someone is really swole and you agree with what they say while thinking "woah they swole" right? Lol, how did I miss this?
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Nov 5, 2019 03:51
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I'm less interested in everyone getting on the same page re: TLJ than figuring out how the movie that was released was released. There's no way that film wasn't focus group'd to poo poo beforehand and they didn't have some inkling that it would be polarizing. TFA was clearly made very *safely* and they knew they wouldn't rock a lot of boats releasing it. How did TLJ get through?
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Nov 5, 2019 07:16
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By the sounds of it, Rian Johnson had a very good relationship with Kennedy which seemed to get him a bit more leeway. Another issue is that, apparently, Trevorrow wanted Luke to survive Episode 8 and that may have played a part in him being removed from the project. My guess is that Disney thought the film would be more controversial than polarizing, and underestimated how much people cared about the legacy of the original characters (or that rumor about Lucas have residual on them all is true and so they mandate was just to wipe them out ASAP.)
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Nov 5, 2019 07:51
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Mike N Eich posted:I'm less interested in everyone getting on the same page re: TLJ than figuring out how the movie that was released was released. There's no way that film wasn't focus group'd to poo poo beforehand and they didn't have some inkling that it would be polarizing. TFA was clearly made very *safely* and they knew they wouldn't rock a lot of boats releasing it. How did TLJ get through? DisneyLucasfilm’s M.O. - on every Star Wars film - has been to give the directors relative free reign, and then edit the poo poo out of whatever they turn in. These edits are done fast and cheap - ADR, rewriting the opening crawl, etc. Reshoots are done ”if necessary”, but they’re doing as little of that as they can get away with. Lots of actors talking in front of blank backdrops. This is why there’s a random shot of Rey being horribly stabbed in the spine during the red room fight. The scene was obviously totally reconfigured late in production. (Maybe it was deemed too violent? Who knows?) But instead of shooting new footage of Rey not being stabbed, they just digitally erased the knife sticking out of her back. That’s cheaper and easier. Despite what you’ve likely heard, TLJ and TFA were both both about equally tinkered with. It’s just that TFA’s changes were like “make FN the comic relief instead of the protagonist, and include dozens of references to Luke to hype up the next film”, while TLJ’s changes were like “eliminate all criticism of the rebellion. The rebels can’t fail; they can only be failed. Also remove most of the comedy.”
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Nov 5, 2019 07:58
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Horizon Burning posted:By the sounds of it, Rian Johnson had a very good relationship with Kennedy which seemed to get him a bit more leeway. Another issue is that, apparently, Trevorrow wanted Luke to survive Episode 8 and that may have played a part in him being removed from the project. Trevorrow got sacked from Episode 9 because Kathleen Kennedy was absolutely horrified at how terrible The Book of Henry was (and a source who was almost certainly Frank Marshall ratted out that he was an absolute pill to deal with on Jurassic World, to the point that even Spielberg didn't want to deal with him), and the first few script drafts he turned in were just godawful and no one, from Kennedy on up to Iger, saw a way to recover from it. Timby fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 08:34
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The ending of TFA was definitely tinkered with late in production. I think it ranges from 'changing Luke from lifting boulders to standing there' to 'Rian changed one of the droids' to 'the whole final bit of Rey going off to find Luke.'SuperMechagodzilla posted:DisneyLucasfilm’s M.O. - on every Star Wars film - has been to give the directors relative free reign, and then edit the poo poo out of whatever they turn in. The posts you did about the tinkering TFA had done to it was interesting, would you go into more detail? Timby posted:Trevorrow got sacked from Episode 9 because Kathleen Kennedy was absolutely horrified at how terrible The Book of Henry was, and the first few script drafts he turned in were just godawful and no one, from Kennedy on up to Iger, saw a way to recover from it. On the other hand, it probably didn't open with a Yo Mamma joke, so, I'm not sure the quality of the script is to blame. Like with Solo, Disney isn't above putting out misinformation to cover up the real issue.
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Nov 5, 2019 08:34
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Horizon Burning posted:The posts you did about the tinkering TFA had done to it was interesting, would you go into more detail? SMG is not a stranger to fabricating stories about TFA having extensive re-shoots. Just so you know. Edit: TFA was being frantically re-edited by Abrams up until the last minute, to the point that he did a top-to-bottom re-edit like three or four weeks before its official premiere, in large part because Bob Iger was steadfast that the movie had to be released in December 2015, despite Kennedy and Abrams begging to push it to May 2016. But it did not have large amounts of re-shoots, neither did TLJ. (The latter, in particular, was basically done the minute Johnson called cut on the last shot, I think they did maybe a week of re-shoots, adding the broom kid and softening Holdo's characterization, at I think Kennedy's request because she felt that Holdo was too unsympathetic.) quote:On the other hand, it probably didn't open with a Yo Mamma joke, so, I'm not sure the quality of the script is to blame. Like with Solo, Disney isn't above putting out misinformation to cover up the real issue. Trevorrow and his co-writer bobo Connolly are pretty objectively terrible writers. Timby fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 08:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd60i3ZnLOE
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Nov 5, 2019 09:29
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Poor Rose.
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Nov 5, 2019 10:42
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