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Also, the notion that there are phone booths where people can basically beam prayers to Dr Manhattan on Mars is kind of unsettling and interesting all at once.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:24
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Its important to keep in mind when adressing this shows intentions on race and politics that Lindelof and his diverse writing and producing team are very aware of the delicate nature of this subject. Its been addressed in a lot of articles already but heres a good one https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2019-10-20/hbo-watchmen-damon-lindelof-regina-king-nicole-kassell "Damon Lindelof" posted:"The key to being responsible is to have collaborators who don’t look like you,” Lindelof said. “The responsibility is all about process. We’re constantly asking ourselves, ‘Should we be doing this? Are we doing this in a responsible way?’ Am I concerned? Of course I am. I worry about this all the time. What we came up with is certainly imperfect, but it’s entering a real interesting space.” And from Regina King from this article https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...c-a9173061.html "Regina King" posted:King continued: "Sure, I asked questions about it with Damon after reading the first episode, but I never had any doubt that I was going to do it, because I knew Damon was not going to tell the story irresponsibly. He's a collaborator – he told me very early on what the writing team was [and] the writers he was surrounding himself with, who were challenging him and would not allow him to irresponsibly tell a story like this."
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Nov 4, 2019 18:27
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poo poo, wrong thread.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:34
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I like how Veidt is limited by the contents of his castle, which seems to be stuck in like a late 19th/early 20th century technology wise, forcing him to improvise. Which means he was probably using his own poop to create the tanning agent for the leather.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:34
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ElNarez posted:"what if the Veidt scenes aren't concurrent with the Tulsa story" is the question I've been asking myself Yeah, someone already mentioned that we've seen an anniversary cake every episode. The clones are funky, but are they "bake the same cake for the same anniversary every day" funky?
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Nov 4, 2019 18:35
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It’s a different anniversary each time, increasing by 1 each segment. But we don’t know if it’s days, months, years, or what. It probably took some time to work out the leather spacesuit.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:38
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AwkwardKnob posted:Also, the notion that there are phone booths where people can basically beam prayers to Dr Manhattan on Mars is kind of unsettling and interesting all at once. Yeah, I had a lot of questions about what the Manhattan booths in the trailers were for. Now I know, and I have so much more to ask. This is a commercial service? I assume Veidt built the originals, but is it really successful enough for Trieu to continue operating it? Probably not, based on the interior of the booth Laurie was using. So I'm guessing that they hold some other value to her now...
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Nov 4, 2019 18:41
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The Senator is basically Mayor Pete.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:49
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Stylistically, sure. Keene's likely orchestration of the Y'al Qaeda conspiracy is kind of a big difference though.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:56
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Is it, though? 
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Nov 4, 2019 18:57
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AccountSupervisor posted:Its important to keep in mind when adressing this shows intentions on race and politics that Lindelof and his diverse writing and producing team are very aware of the delicate nature of this subject. This doesn’t actually address anything?
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Nov 4, 2019 18:59
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We know that there are human psychics in this world because Veidt used the brain of one to make the squid, and the Game Warden is pretty clearly connected to the black freighter, which Veidt has dreams about in the book despite almost certainly never having read the comic. I think the prison Veidt is in is the creation of someone other than Dr. Manhattan.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:03
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The REAL Goobusters posted:This doesn’t actually address anything? Neither have you, so whats your point? You have yet to actually provide any well thought or fleshed out arguments in this thread as to your issues with this shows politics. Im all ears. Ok maybe this is one The REAL Goobusters posted:This show’s entire thesis is basically centrism is the only good ideology. It will never show any actual real leftist ideas in good faith Its literally shown and exposited the economic relief reparations would provide. How is that not in good faith? Because its also said that racists wouldnt like it and lash out against it? So if the show isnt going out of its way to design a world in which its portraying True Leftism in good faith, its somehow politically moot and automatically centrist? How is it attacking your version of leftist politics exactly? What would you even need this show to do to get it right in your book? AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 19:04
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:poo poo, wrong thread. Really at this point it could only improve it
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Nov 4, 2019 19:22
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Rocksicles posted:y'all queda not sure if this was deliberate or the result of auto-correct but either way it's good as hell
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Nov 4, 2019 19:26
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AwkwardKnob posted:After seeing last night's episode, I'm pretty convinced that Adrian Veidt is being held against his will and gradually going stir-crazy, eventually making the decision that he needs to escape. Each interlude we see with him is misleading because I think we're getting glimpses of sequential years of his confinement (hence the birthday cakes, or whatever) I think it's on Mars just based on that Manhattan thing in the first episode, plus the first time they transitioned to one of the Adrian scenes there was a giant pan up to the stars. It's definitely supposed to mirror Adrian's dome in Antarctica though. To answer why Doc would even care enough to do this, I think perhaps Adrian overstepped his bounds in the years since the squid and has been invoking Manhattan as a way to keep everyone in line or further his own goals. I think the phone booths are related to this. I also noticed that Angela's adopted kid was building the same castle out of those weird floating legos in the second episode so maybe there's something more going on with it...
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Nov 4, 2019 20:03
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Does anyone have an alternative link to the Peteypedia files? The regular hbo link doesn't work here in scandinavia.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:03
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:We know that there are human psychics in this world because Veidt used the brain of one to make the squid, and the Game Warden is pretty clearly connected to the black freighter, which Veidt has dreams about in the book despite almost certainly never having read the comic. I think the prison Veidt is in is the creation of someone other than Dr. Manhattan. What if a Veidt clone is the warden because a clone would think like him and know what tricks he might use? I am sure this is not the first time anyone proposed this. Oasx posted:Does anyone have an alternative link to the Peteypedia files? The regular hbo link doesn't work here in scandinavia. I just accidentally googled Peteyfiles
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Nov 4, 2019 20:15
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tadashi posted:What if a Veidt clone is the warden because a clone would think like him and know what tricks he might use? I am sure this is not the first time anyone proposed this. Going into self-imposed exile until he can defeat himself in a battle of wits seems like an incredibly Adrian Veidt thing to do.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:22
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Empress Brosephine posted:I for one , go to the show involving a fantasy world where a giant squid kills millions of people for my political commentary This is an incredible take on watchmen in general, a real hall of famer
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Nov 4, 2019 20:30
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AwkwardKnob posted:Also, the notion that there are phone booths where people can basically beam prayers to Dr Manhattan on Mars is kind of unsettling and interesting all at once. Very The Leftovers vibes there. It's hard to say we haven't seen the positive results of reparations when elements of it has been shown in each episode. There's the overall racial parity of Tulsa with the Oklahoma play scenes and the diversity of the audience, the museum in episode 2, and as Immanentized said, the FBI supe specifically calling it out in this episode. On another note, everyone was losing it that the police were depicted as the good guys in episode one. Now we have them black-bagging people and threatening them with dogs in scenes reminiscent of Guantanamo or Chicago's Homan Square. I liked how Laurie comes through and pretty much shows them all up to be small town petty tyrants, but the FBI isn't much better itself. The idea here is that though America has been under a liberal regime instead of Reagan-centric conservatism, many of the same ills still exist. The police are bad, but they don't target a disenfranchised minority because that minority actually holds positions of power and influence in society. They go after the lower class who purposefully set themselves outside the polite and social realm by maintaining (at least explicitly) racist views. Honestly, if you wanted to go for it, you could say this is the show's explicit leftist vision- even though the people who are in power and make-up the govt and bourgeois are different, the disease itself hasn't changed- capitalism, the rule of the bourgeois, etc. etc. so we inevitably end up where we are today, just with different targets for persecution. A running tally of PSA's at the beginning of a TV show does not a shining utopia make. Canadian Surf Club fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 20:44
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:We know that there are human psychics in this world because Veidt used the brain of one to make the squid, and the Game Warden is pretty clearly connected to the black freighter, which Veidt has dreams about in the book despite almost certainly never having read the comic. I think the prison Veidt is in is the creation of someone other than Dr. Manhattan. It shouldn’t be a mind prison because (if I’m remembering right) we start some scenes with Mr. Philips or Ms. Cruikshanks prior to Veidt entering the scene. Not strictly evidence, but it would be a cheap move to not have every scene start with him if he’s being mindfucked by a psychic or some matrix dealie.
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Nov 4, 2019 21:18
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Adrian Veidt is trapped in some kind of Dark City.
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Nov 4, 2019 21:28
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When Viedt dresses up as Ozy, he reminds me of one of the old guys from Venture BrosAwkwardKnob posted:Also, the notion that there are phone booths where people can basically beam prayers to Dr Manhattan on Mars is kind of unsettling and interesting all at once.
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Nov 4, 2019 21:31
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Still not convinced it's Dr. Manhattan who put Veidt in space jail. Didn't his company get taken over by someone else? Might be something to that. It's very funny that he has been reduced to a Republic serial villain, despite his protests that he is not. He's a wacky old rear end in a top hat in a castle limited to a 1930's era level of technology, trying to build a loving catapult to launch himself out of the bounds of his little prison while some dude in a mask constantly thwarts his plans.
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Nov 4, 2019 21:41
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I was worried Jean Smart was going to be a one-off because of the episode title
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Nov 4, 2019 21:42
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https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/11/4/20947960/watchmen-album-soundtrack-vinyl-liner-notesquote:As you might be able to guess, the focus of the liner notes are mostly on music, and the way the Interspatial Toxic Event (ITE) — Veidt’s fake squid attack — changed the scene. The album itself is presented as a reissue of a controversial in-universe album called The Book of Rorschach by a band called Sons of Pale Horse, named after the band Pale Horse from the original comic. The liner notes are an essay on the history of the album on its 15th anniversary.
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Nov 4, 2019 21:51
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Are You There God? It's Me, Laurie Blake.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:03
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I kinda feel like all the display stuff and progress bars in the Manhattan boxes is doing jack poo poo. Those messages aren't going anywhere.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:07
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AwkwardKnob posted:Also, the notion that there are phone booths where people can basically beam prayers to Dr Manhattan on Mars is kind of unsettling and interesting all at once. Who says they even go to Mars? Here is a thought Veidt takes a knee but has a successor in the person who "bought" his company to carry out his next plan. Trieu is the one looking out for Will the wheelchair guy who is following some game plan, I doubt he cares much for society so he is probably down for some bloodshed if it leads to retribution. The SUV that got dropped on Laurie is the one that belonged to Angela that got lifted away by a ship. So the Doctor Manhattan confession booths are just a way to pick up information from people. Probably the type of people that are burdened with looking after the world and the occasional sad sack. In the process of hearing Laurie's whale song of loneliness they decided to drop the car right in front of her to knock her off her game. Rather than thinking about the conspiracy she is thinking about a giant blue dick on Mars.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:20
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I feel like it might? Could it have been Doc who sent the car back after he heard Laurie's joke? Whatever airship picked it up to begin with didn't seem to be around, just the sky with a noticeably visible Mars. It seemed like some sort of response.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:22
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Listening to the podcast, Lindelof maentions that he was really impacted reading Ta-Nehishi Coates book, and then also his "case for reparations", and it's one of the themes that he wanted to address in his show. So it's a bit odd to think that the show wouldn't talk about the positive aspect of reparations, since Lindelof himself thought Coates made a compelling case.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:26
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I'm not reading/listening to any supplemental stuff, so are all African Americans eligible for reparations, and do they all have to go to Tulsa to seek them? Or does each city have its own Henry B Gates center addressing regional racial atrocities?
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Nov 4, 2019 22:30
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zoux posted:I'm not reading/listening to any supplemental stuff, so are all African Americans eligible for reparations, and do they all have to go to Tulsa to seek them? Or does each city have its own Henry B Gates center addressing regional racial atrocities? This is explained just by watching the show, or at least indicated. Tusla is an experiment, the first of its kind. And in reality, it makes a pretty good starting point if you wanted to run a study on how reparations would work. There's a city recently, Stockton, California, that's been running a study onuniversal basic income and just started releasing some data. Tulsa in Watchmen reminds me of that.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:45
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KoRMaK posted:This is explained just by watching the show, or at least indicated. This show says that if we give reparations then white people will create a domestic terrorism group and then the cops will start oppressing white people because they seem like they might be adjacent too the 7th kavalry and they have torture chambers where they beat the poo poo out of them. If it’s explained then it’s only looking through it through the most bad faith take ever on reparations.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:51
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I think one of the Peteypedia files says that Redfordations is limited to some 30-odd officially recognized events of mass racial violence, the survivors of those events and their descendants.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:52
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The REAL Goobusters posted:This show says that if we give reparations then white people will create a domestic terrorism group and then the cops will start oppressing white people because they seem like they might be adjacent too the 7th kavalry and they have torture chambers where they beat the poo poo out of them. I think your whole arguments are in bad faith. You're not really trying to have a discussion but instead poo poo on everything in a really aggressive way. Why even bother watching the show? You can just listen to the OST once the show is done and be happy. Go, be free. I liked the episode overall. I thought Jean Smart mostly carried it. I thought the dialogue was the weakest of the three episodes, a little too quippy maybe and just sort of dumbed down in some areas. I loved the way the music inter-played with parts of the dialogue. The Veidt scenes are quickly becoming my favourite thing of the episodes. They're absurd and wonderful.
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Nov 4, 2019 23:03
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Sesq posted:I feel like it might? Could it have been Doc who sent the car back after he heard Laurie's joke? Whatever airship picked it up to begin with didn't seem to be around, just the sky with a noticeably visible Mars. It seemed like some sort of response. It also happened just over 40 seconds after the phone voice said the message would reach Mars in approximately 40 seconds. Edit: But what the other person was saying was that the Trieu people were listening in and were the ones dropping the car, so nevermind! Don't post while really tired, folks. Lemur Crisis fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 23:05
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DuhSal posted:I think your whole arguments are in bad faith. You're not really trying to have a discussion but instead poo poo on everything in a really aggressive way. Why even bother watching the show? You can just listen to the OST once the show is done and be happy. Go, be free. I'm very much enjoying the Jean Smartissaince.
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Nov 4, 2019 23:21
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DuhSal posted:I think your whole arguments are in bad faith. You're not really trying to have a discussion but instead poo poo on everything in a really aggressive way. Why even bother watching the show? You can just listen to the OST once the show is done and be happy. Go, be free. The show is already presenting it in bad faith. And you want me to just accept it and give it the benefit of the doubt? Despite everything lindelof has said (and keeps saying) in interviews and podcasts? Like ok man you do you. But that is what the text of the show is. E: Im going to continue watching and posting in this thread anyway. See you next week!
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Nov 4, 2019 23:28
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