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Maybe I'm being too generous, but I assumed that kayakyakr's team made the decision and they just went with it. If you toss out "but obviously I'd go with whatever testing scheme the team agrees on, as long as there are tests" and they still reject you over team/company policy you don't have individual control over, then welp that's just you getting the poo poo end of the lottery aspect of the whole stupid mess.
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Oct 23, 2019 14:46
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Keetron posted:I would reject you too if this would be how you'd approach testing while working on my team. I just told him how my team at that time tests. Integration tests are incredibly useful for startups because they get you the most for the least in a field where our delivery is measured in weeks rather than months (and the consequences for a bug, edge case, or difficulty beyond "the whole thing doesn't work" are not dire). I talked about when we generally added unit tests (when a bug or edge case was surfaced), plus talked about how this testing strategy applied specifically to our use case and indicated that I have no problem following any other testing strategy that the team does. It is what it is, and I'm quite happy with the team that I found. Just thought it was interesting that that was the thing that sunk me. e: the irony was that in my interview with the new company, they also asked me about testing. I gave them a similar answer, but along with a whiteboard where I went into details about mocking, doubles, and a few other extended testing concepts, it wound up being a strength. kayakyakr fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 15:20
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Sorry, I was overly harsh but there are so many bad decisions out there wrt tests...
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Oct 23, 2019 16:01
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OTOH go completely bonkers with unit tests that mock away 99% of dependencies you control
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Oct 23, 2019 17:14
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Don't need tests if you write code correctly.
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Oct 23, 2019 17:16
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Iverron posted:OTOH go completely bonkers with unit tests that mock away 99% of dependencies you control Should be 100%, that’s the point of a unit test. If there’s nothing interesting left to test then don’t test it.
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Oct 23, 2019 17:49
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At the end of August I was contacted by a recruiter for a company about some sort of Programmer/Analyst position, I forget the exact title. We scheduled an interview for the first week of September, but then my current job hit the fan and I had to put the interview off to the first week of October. So the position has been open for some time. I thought the interview went quite well, although it wasn't very technical despite being a mid/senior-ish position. Anyways, a few days later I got an email saying they were going forward with a different candidate. That was at the beginning of the month. Well, today I just got a call from the recruiter explaining that they closed the position (which is why I got the automated email telling me they're not interested) and posted a new one with lower requirements, that "I was the top candidate" but essentially said I wanted too much and asked if I had any flexibly with the salary. I asked for 80-85 (for reference, according to this article median software dev income is $71k for my city) I said the bottom of that range was as low as I'd need to simply consider a role; recruiter said he'd talk to the team lead. If they offer my minimum request it would still be 20% more than what I currently make, which I guess is still pretty good but I felt like my request was teetering on undervaluing myself. I can't tell if they're simply trying to get me for less, or what? I mean I suppose that's the whole goal of paying people to do work for you. But I don't know how to handle the situation.
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Oct 23, 2019 18:22
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Sab669 posted:At the end of August I was contacted by a recruiter for a company about some sort of Programmer/Analyst position, I forget the exact title. Buffalo? 80k is p drat low nationally. What sort of languages/frameworks/specialties are you in?
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Oct 23, 2019 18:39
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Yea Buffalo. As the article notes, it's a very poor city where you can get a nice house for like $150K. Comparing wages here to Boston, NYC, or anywhere in California is not especially "meaningful", I don't think. I'm not particulary open to relocating out of the north east, but NY + New England is on the table. All 7 years of my professional experience has been C#, about 3 years worth of winforms and 4 years of ASP/MVC and jQuery. I haven't really touched SQL since college. I mean occasionally I'll write some insert statements or basic select statements for a procedure, it's by far my weakest skill set. Which I feel like it "disqualifies" me from any sort of "full stack" roles, which is what so many job postings are.
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Oct 23, 2019 18:51
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Don't disqualify yourself just because you haven't used some particular technology recently. Most roles probably aren't looking for expert leadership in every skill.
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Oct 23, 2019 18:57
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raminasi posted:Should be 100%, that’s the point of a unit test. If there’s nothing interesting left to test then don’t test it. heavy mocking of dependencies you control is a path to a lot of really crufty unit testing of the construction of the mocks and ossification of design
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Oct 23, 2019 18:57
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Iverron posted:heavy mocking of dependencies you control is a path to a lot of really crufty unit testing of the construction of the mocks and ossification of design If your code is hard to test, your desigb should be reconsidered. If your test is hard to maintain, your code is hard to maintain. The tests are not a goal but are a drat good canary.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:06
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Keetron posted:If your code is hard to test, your desigb should be reconsidered. If your test is hard to maintain, your code is hard to maintain. The ossification that results from heavy mocking isn’t really opinionated one way or another about the initial design of the code it’s testing. Unit test your code at the point where it is truly isolate.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:35
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Iverron posted:heavy mocking of dependencies you control is a path to a lot of really crufty unit testing of the construction of the mocks and ossification of design Yeah and my position is “ok, so don’t write those unit tests.” IMO, most unit tests are either bad for the reason you describe, testing poorly-factored code, or not actually unit tests.
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Oct 23, 2019 20:17
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Sab669 posted:Yea Buffalo. As the article notes, it's a very poor city where you can get a nice house for like $150K. Comparing wages here to Boston, NYC, or anywhere in California is not especially "meaningful", I don't think. I'm not particulary open to relocating out of the north east, but NY + New England is on the table. If you know how to write an insert without using an ORM you're already at least average. I didn't take databases in college (which I regret) and learned everything I know about SQL on the job and I call myself a full stack developer. Comedy option: get a job in Toronto that pays Toronto money and commute 
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Oct 24, 2019 15:25
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I'd kill myself before commuting 2+ hours each way. Realistically I can't do more than like a 30 minute commute because I've got a dog at home.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:34
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Just asked for a 30% raise, yolo
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Nov 3, 2019 01:28
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3 years ago I wrote an open-source forum with some basic features (including authn). I am applying for senior, maybe lead, backend jobs (I'm looking for at least $140,000), and am wondering whether to link the demo in my resume. Perhaps it could hurt me, due to the webclient looking slightly worse than a Bootstrap app, and that it's at most a toy. I'm not going to fix those issues as I'm no longer interested in the technologies used, and I think my time's better spent practicing whiteboard questions. (When I last job hunted, few companies had someone mention or ask about the project, but obviously most companies had whiteboard questions.) If I were considering a candidate from the other side who had a similar app, I definitely wouldn't count it against them, but I don't think it would help them much either. How do other devs who hire at $140k+ salary levels feel about simple open-source apps in the resume for a senior dev? I lean to mentioning the app, including a line about when it was developed and a link to the source, but no demo link.
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Nov 4, 2019 04:13
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I think I'd mention that I did it, but I wouldn't link it or provide source unless requested, at which point I could give appropriate context (e.g. "I knocked this out as part of a dev jam" or "I was intentionally not making use of $existing_tool").
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Nov 4, 2019 04:21
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dividertabs posted:3 years ago I wrote an open-source forum with some basic features (including authn). I am applying for senior, maybe lead, backend jobs (I'm looking for at least $140,000), and am wondering whether to link the demo in my resume. As the hiring manager for multiple open backend devs, I'd look at it's github or equivalent page as part of the resume review step. Has there been commits lately? Are there open issues? How were the issues closed? If it's just mentioned in the resume I'd probably google it or your name + it. If you are saying you released it and abandoned it, that would probably be a strike against more than a pro. Obviously all of this is just my opinion and others can have different ones including calling me a moron, but doing the first pass resume review is the first hour of my day most days.
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Nov 4, 2019 04:28
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I think I'd mention that I did it, but I wouldn't link it or provide source unless requested, at which point I could give appropriate context (e.g. "I knocked this out as part of a dev jam" or "I was intentionally not making use of $existing_tool").
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Nov 4, 2019 04:29
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My post was a bit winding since I was trying to include all the relevant details, so I'm not certain whether you got these 2 details: * I last worked on it 3 years ago, and would clearly identify this in the resume. * It is a toy and has never had real users. So no known bugs or open issues! Hughlander posted:If you are saying you released it and abandoned it, that would probably be a strike against more than a pro. As the hiring manager for multiple open backend devs, your opinion is exactly the kind I'm seeking. But I'm really curious about this, and hope I'm not coming across as arguing. Don't you think it's kind of unfair that releasing something under an open-source license would oblige the author to support it for free? (in a hypothetical case where people were trying to use it) dividertabs fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 04:39
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Hughlander posted:If you are saying you released it and abandoned it, that would probably be a strike against more than a pro. That's a pretty weird take. Why would you hold it against someone if they decided to move on to their next hobby project and not support their previous stuff?
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Nov 4, 2019 04:40
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dividertabs posted:If you have screened resumes, how would you personally feel about seeing a similar demo? Do you imagine you'd be any more or less likely to do a phone screen? Sorry, I haven't screened resumes, this is more my opinion from having reviewed resumes prior to interviewing someone (which interview was assigned to me by HR). Like, "worked on stuff in my spare time" is a fine thing to put on a resume IMO, but unless your web content does a good job of contextualizing itself, I don't think it's realistic to expect people to get a good idea of how much effort you put into something without you being able to explain it. If I go to your GitHub page and see a shoddy mess, is that because you're a bad programmer or because you wrote the thing in a 48 hour jam, without stopping to sleep?
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Nov 4, 2019 04:48
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Thanks. This is mostly affirming my intention to include source links but not a demo link. (the source is fine and well tested, just doesn't do anything amazing. And I doubt anyone would bother to find out, whether by running it or reading it.)quote:I don't think it's realistic to expect people to get a good idea of how much effort you put into something without you being able to explain it dividertabs fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 05:40
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Xik posted:That's a pretty weird take. Why would you hold it against someone if they decided to move on to their next hobby project and not support their previous stuff? Probably missed it was a hobby toy project as opposed to "I wrote open source code that was used by X users and then abandoned it closing 42 open issues." Toy vs something planned on being used and then abandoned are two different bars in my mind. If it was a pure toy thing I wouldn't care one way or the other. I'd just expect some mention of it someplace around "Wanted to learn X tech so I made toy project Y." But I wouldn't go through code or anything for that purpose. I'd expect it to be bad.
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Nov 4, 2019 05:55
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dividertabs posted:I don't think it is either. So if I were to give the demo link in the resume, I would hope people with questions ask them in the phone screen before holding it against me. But I especially fear HR people seeing the spartan UI and fearing that if they hire me as a backend dev their websites will look like that. In my experience, the HR screen is never more than "your resume passed this specific key-word filter". I've never had an HR person even look at my personal website, much less any of the projects listed on my resume.
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Nov 4, 2019 06:50
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A side project is usually seen positively as in "this person is taking their own time to improve themselves professionally" and while not doing that shouldn't necessarily be counted negatively, doing it is hard not to project in a positive way. Go in the old 3 year old repo, edit the README to state it was an experiment, archive the thing (so it's read-only), and if anyone asks a question, specify that it was a learning thing and name a couple lessons you could have learned from it back then and you'll be good to go.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:47
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I mean, your github will be perused. Don't worry about it.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:46
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kayakyakr posted:I mean, your github will be perused. Don't worry about it. That's a definite maybe
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Nov 6, 2019 16:59
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kayakyakr posted:I mean, your github will be perused. Don't worry about it. Yeah I’ve been told this is not certain at all, but I’m not an “oldie” so
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Nov 6, 2019 17:11
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If a candidate has their GitHub on their resume, I will take a look but unless the resume also tells me what I should look at, I will only skim it. Waaay too many people fork projects before using them and I do not want to go through your 200 projects to find out which ones you actually worked on.
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Nov 7, 2019 13:27
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There’s a button to filter out forks... But yes, seconding the suggestion to point to particular projects.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:09
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Is there? I can only get it to return "just" forks. Also after playing around with the repositories tab on my own profile, I would recommend using the "pinned repos" feature, or pointing to specific repos even even more strongly. I couldn't get it to show repositories that I'd present on my own, because the good ones are under a github org and not under my own profile.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:03
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Xarn posted:Is there? I can only get it to return "just" forks. Pinned repos is a really good idea. If you keep an "example project" or other hobby OS project up to date, you can keep your github on your profile and may avoid entirely or at least prompt a more interesting coding challenge.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:45
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Sab669 posted:At the end of August I was contacted by a recruiter for a company about some sort of Programmer/Analyst position, I forget the exact title. Got an offer for $75 today, which is only about 15% more than I currently make. Not thrilled. Health insurance would go up from $10/mo --> $100/mo, too. 5 weeks PTO (vaca & sick); I'm currently 14 vacation + 8 sick days + 2 personal days. I'm not in a hurry to leave my current job, really my only complaints are the salary and it goes from "painfully slow" to "QUICK EVERYTHING MUST BE DONE" (nature of the industry, not bad project management. but also sometimes bad project management) so maybe I should just stay here and keep looking  I hate making decisions 
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Nov 8, 2019 00:03
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Just got into the negotiation phase. Manager wants to start me as an Engineer 1 cause of my eight month work gap and six months later move me to Engineer 2. Supposedly as a way of wanting me to shake the rust off and not hit the ground running too hard since apparently Engineer 1 includes less responsibilities. What is this, a trap? I'd be making somewhere between 90k-95k as Engineer 1 and at least 100k to whatever on Engineer 2. What do I do? This just feels like a way to pay me less. It's at a decently successful startup that looks very interesting to work at but I don't want pay resentment creeping in.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:18
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40% trap 50% good intentions, but will forget or politics will prevent it from happening 10% events will happen as promised
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Nov 8, 2019 00:20
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The Fool posted:40% trap Exactly this breakdown.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:24
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Social Animal posted:This just feels like a way to pay me less. Probably this. Which is the nonsense I'm dealing with right now
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Nov 8, 2019 00:29
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