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uninterrupted posted:Africa is suffering from the insidious chinese plot of “building ports and roads for developing countries”, it’s truely a tragedy. They are importing labor and exporting resources which they got access to by paying generous bungs to politicians without asking any awkward questions about where it ended up. Very colonial of them.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:25
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uninterrupted posted:Africa is suffering from the insidious chinese plot of “building ports and roads for developing countries”, it’s truely a tragedy. If you think that is for any selfless reason, or even remotely market reasons, I don't know what to say.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:30
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qnqnx posted:If you think that is for any selfless reason, or even remotely market reasons, I don't know what to say. That's moving the goalposts. How many Patrice Lumumbas has the Chinese government assassinated? There's a reason why China is the second biggest trading partner with Latin American nations and it's because people are getting sick of Monroe Doctrine shenanigans.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:33
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:China wouldn't, because unlike Americans who treat world politics like a game of Victoria II they have had a pretty consistent foreign policy of not involving themselves in internal affairs of other countries. At least physically
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Oct 31, 2019 00:34
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:That's moving the goalposts. How many Patrice Lumumbas has the Chinese government assassinated? There's a reason why China is the second biggest trading partner with Latin American nations and it's because people are getting sick of Monroe Doctrine shenanigans. No they are not, and development of infrastructure in Africa to not just make themselves look better, but also get "trade partners" that not only are reliant on China, but also have to agree with China on international issues is very much world politics. And also not really relevant to the Latin America thread.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:42
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qnqnx posted:And also not really relevant to the Latin America thread. qnqnx posted:I don't think Africa agrees with your view of things.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:54
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such a simplistic view, must be a CSPAM poster
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Oct 31, 2019 01:37
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i say swears online posted:such a simplistic view, must be a CSPAM poster I don't think he would be welcome even in that trash dump.
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Oct 31, 2019 01:44
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https://twitter.com/AP_Noticias/status/1189665963161112576
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Oct 31, 2019 03:26
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lol translating, the gist is that the opposition guy rejected the OAS' election observer plan; this is excellent for morales' credibility
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Oct 31, 2019 03:50
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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1189633973015797761 Dictator Sanders calls for mass arrests.
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Oct 31, 2019 03:59
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qnqnx posted:We can agree then that Maduro is not the less bad side. And that things are not as simple as "this side good, this side bad". a pinochet defender explaining the barest basics of politics, good joke
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Oct 31, 2019 10:24
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So yeah, just admit you don't. No shame in that.
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Oct 31, 2019 13:24
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qnqnx posted:We can agree then that Maduro is not the less bad side. And that things are not as simple as "this side good, this side bad". I agree, but you should follow your own advice. People may think Guaido is not a good choice, and that a USA-backed coup (or whatever you want to call it) is bad and at the same time dont think Maduro is good and should stay in power forever Thats what killed the Venezuela thread: nobody could say "hey maybe a USA backed regime change inst the best way out of this mess" without being accused of being a Maduro-lover-tankie-gringo
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Oct 31, 2019 13:38
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I like how the Pinochet guy here tells other people in the thread to gently caress off.
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Oct 31, 2019 13:40
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qnqnx posted:Do you even know what "right wing" means? it means the political right, such as the right wing "protesters" who were led by american puppet Juan Guaido in his failed attempt at a coup
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Oct 31, 2019 13:44
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i say swears online posted:lol wait, the the same OAS that publishes poo poo like this, which was quoted last page but I'll repost as a reminder: quote:The recent currents of destabilization of the political systems of the hemisphere have their origins in the strategy of the Bolivarian and Cuban dictatorships, which seek to reposition themselves once again, not through a process of re-institutionalization and re-democratization, but through their old methodology of exporting polarization and bad practices, to essentially finance, support and promote political and social conflict. offered to "observe" elections and these idiots refused? they're either enormously dumb, to the point of not understanding that OAS wants to help them rig it, or are so right wing that even OAS is too liberal to trust haha
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Oct 31, 2019 13:54
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RottenK posted:wait, the the same OAS that publishes poo poo like this, which was quoted last page but I'll repost as a reminder: There’s also the chance they lost so badly OAS will have no choice to certify the elections. In Venezuela the opposition had a string of such clear, crushing losses that they finally told international observers to stop observing the elections so the opposition parties had more wiggle room to say the elections were stolen.
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Oct 31, 2019 14:10
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Elias_Maluco posted:I agree, but you should follow your own advice. People may think Guaido is not a good choice, and that a USA-backed coup (or whatever you want to call it) is bad and at the same time dont think Maduro is good and should stay in power forever The tries at a regime change where there before the USA muddied up things, even before the Trump administration, even. But for real, there was a shitton of misinformation going around that would have been easily cleared if some posters actually bothered how things got to this point. RottenK posted:it means the political right, such as the right wing "protesters" who were led by american puppet Juan Guaido in his failed attempt at a coup uninterrupted posted:There’s also the chance they lost so badly OAS will have no choice to certify the elections.
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Oct 31, 2019 14:21
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uninterrupted posted:There’s also the chance they lost so badly OAS will have no choice to certify the elections. that is an option, but it's hard to believe because there's nothing stopping OAS from just lying about the results if the actual numbers are too bad for the opposition, it's not like the western press won't gleefully help spread lies to legitimize a coup against a left wing government
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Oct 31, 2019 14:41
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qnqnx posted:Did you miss the memo about the political incarcerations of any opposition candidate with a real shot at winning, or does that not fit your narrative? That has literally nothing to do with whether election observers should be present. Hell, the election observers could even note that some opposition candidates were under house arrest (for kidnapping and attempted murder) when reporting on the fairness of the elections. The only reason to turn away election observers is because you know you lost. Same with the Bolivian opposition running out to burn ballot boxes; there’s no point unless they are certain they’re filled with Morales voters. RottenK posted:that is an option, but it's hard to believe because there's nothing stopping OAS from just lying about the results if the actual numbers are too bad for the opposition, it's not like the western press won't gleefully help spread lies to legitimize a coup against a left wing government Oh definitely, but the opposition might not trust OAS to do so. Mesa is a far right bloodthirsty murderer known for brutally repressing protests and flat out ignoring referendums to nationalize the energy industry during his last presidency; dollars to donuts he thinks OAS is too far left.
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Oct 31, 2019 14:53
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uninterrupted posted:That has literally nothing to do with whether election observers should be present. Hell, the election observers could even note that some opposition candidates were under house arrest (for kidnapping and attempted murder) when reporting on the fairness of the elections. Gotta agree that it was a weird move, but I can see where the reasoning came from, to not give the elections any veneer of credibility.
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Oct 31, 2019 15:18
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qnqnx posted:Did you miss the memo about the political incarcerations of any opposition candidate with a real shot at winning, or does that not fit your narrative?
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Oct 31, 2019 15:20
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uninterrupted posted:
yeah as i said, my second option was that they're such chuds that they don't trust the OAS for being too left wing for their tastes, which is a huge lol
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Oct 31, 2019 15:21
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So Lula is basically a political prisoner correct? Where the gently caress's the international outcry over that?
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Nov 2, 2019 04:47
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mila kunis posted:So Lula is basically a political prisoner correct? Where the gently caress's the international outcry over that? when was the last time the international community didn't approve of political suppression of leftists
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Nov 2, 2019 08:31
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In the end I'm glad that Kissinger is still alive today, so that he gets to see everything he worked for in Chile fall apart and the people united and undefeated
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Nov 3, 2019 16:14
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Could not find another source and I dont know this one, but I saw it elsewhere (in portuguese) https://twitter.com/estrelladigital/status/1191439894633205760 Opposition leader calls for the military to aid in deposing Evo Seems bad
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Nov 4, 2019 20:49
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Elias_Maluco posted:Could not find another source and I dont know this one, but I saw it elsewhere (in portuguese) Does Morales have solid support in the military?
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Nov 4, 2019 21:13
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Elias_Maluco posted:Could not find another source and I dont know this one, but I saw it elsewhere (in portuguese) Yeah because that's democratic. I'd love for the military to stick with Morales and just say "We are". I don't know if this the place for it, but I've been reading William Ospina's trilogy of novels on the conquest and post-conquest era of South America and they're super good. They're Ursúa, El País de la Canela, and La serpiente sin ojos. I loved the first and I'm really enjoying the second. Not sure where I'll find a copy of the third in France, but I'll cross that bridge when I do. I've long known that the Spanish conquest of Latin America, was a tragedy on many levels, but the research he did and the way he describes the pre-colonial era is done so well it really makes me ache for those societies that were annihilated in the worst way, all in pursuit of gold. I just finished the description of Atahualpa's ransom, and the way it's described is very well done and depressing. Anyway, I highly recommend it.
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Nov 4, 2019 21:30
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Elias_Maluco posted:Could not find another source and I dont know this one, but I saw it elsewhere (in portuguese) lol this really is the venezuela coup attempt all over again
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Nov 5, 2019 16:16
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50299562 Just horrifying, a whole family burnt to death and some children kidnapped.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:40
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Horrifying indeed, but the article says nothing about children being kidnapped though? 
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Nov 5, 2019 21:40
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reportedly 16 leaked audio recordings implicating the US government in instigating a coup against evo morales
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Nov 6, 2019 03:33
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RottenK posted:lol this really is the venezuela coup attempt all over again
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Nov 6, 2019 03:47
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50299562 What's even the best-case scenario for dealing with Mexico's issues at this point? If we had a benevolent but not all-powerful dictator who we could trust to only ever do the right things (which is of course an unrealistic supposition, but work with me here), is there a way out for Mexico/Guatemala/Honduras at this point?
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Nov 6, 2019 05:24
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:reportedly 16 leaked audio recordings implicating the US government in instigating a coup against evo morales i can't properly evaluate the embassy allegations / PostCuba as a platform (seems to be this Marco Velazquez Cristo guy's blog?), but afaict based on PostCuba's own summaries the only mention in the audio of USgov conspiracy is Rubio-Cruz-Menendez being vaguely pro-Bolivian-opposition which, well, obviously
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Nov 6, 2019 05:36
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PT6A posted:What's even the best-case scenario for dealing with Mexico's issues at this point? If we had a benevolent but not all-powerful dictator who we could trust to only ever do the right things (which is of course an unrealistic supposition, but work with me here), is there a way out for Mexico/Guatemala/Honduras at this point? La Virgen makes a miracle happen and americans suddenly stop feeling the urge to shove drugs up their snouts and veins.
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Nov 6, 2019 06:55
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PT6A posted:What's even the best-case scenario for dealing with Mexico's issues at this point? If we had a benevolent but not all-powerful dictator who we could trust to only ever do the right things (which is of course an unrealistic supposition, but work with me here), is there a way out for Mexico/Guatemala/Honduras at this point? Worldwide full legalization of all illegal drugs That would beat those cartels for good, with the added effect of dramatically lowering crime, police brutality and the oppression of poor people all over the world Yeah, its not goling to happen. Still, thats more realistic and would be a lot more effective than all americans (and europeans, and latins, and everyone else) giving up cocaine Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Nov 6, 2019 |
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Nov 6, 2019 11:53
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/opinion/mexico-mormons.html Legalization is not going to happen, and if it happened today it would take a generation to produce results, and they probably wouldn't be good results anyway The criminals who have guns, power and money will not disappear just because America stops sniffing cocaine, they've already expanded into extortion, robbery, kidnapping, etc etc There's no solution besides enforcing the rule of law and improving economic conditions. People joining drug gangs are sometimes enticed by money, but young men are being kidnapped and forced to work against their will. It's all fubar
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Nov 7, 2019 22:39
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