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!Klams posted:YYYESSSS, This is an EXCELLENT Idea, my cat isn't really fussed about wearing costumes... Worker placement with a twist and a bunch of tracks is pretty generic KS board game fare these days. To anyone new, I'm sure they're mostly fine and can be substitutes for each other most of the time. But, I'm with the curmudgeons most of the time now. There can still be great new midweight euros: Hansa Teutonica, The Great Zimbabwe, and Food Chain Magnate weren't released that long ago. There are primarily two factors here: one, with the vast width of midweight euros (which will always be the largest set since people's middles will overlap) it'll compete with more games naturally, and two: I've noticed a sort of KS fatigue and new games will always have to compete with a larger group of older classics. Some of this is of course our own individual preferences, as I personally have been exploring the better uses of variance in designs refined from older designs (wargames primarily). But new games will still be appreciated. Blue Lagoon, Azul, even Y&Y from non-T&E diehards. There's a reaction to the increasingly complex euros being released. I've noticed my own tastes have developed into simple wargames (yes, OCS is really simple when you break it down, the 50 page rulebook is maybe 7-10 pages of actual rules without examples) and simple euros, mostly splotters. Lacerda will always have a place, but I've noticed people have started criticizing his designs more too; the initial love of the EGG deluxe editions probably made it take a while. Of course, contrast this with the growing popularity of 18xx KS that used to be very limited quantities  But those are mostly games that people already knew were good. They're just being released in a larger volume to a larger audience that now acknowledges their quality.
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Nov 6, 2019 15:49
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Has anybody played Asgard's Chosen and can chime in on it?
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Nov 6, 2019 16:22
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Kickstarted Midweight Euro's also suffer from what I would call Kickstarteristis. Now I actually like Trickerion, Clans of Caledonia and Dinosaur Island but they all have this same issue of loads of moving parts which make them hard to pick up and play straight away easily. This legacies one looks the same, loads of cards, tokens and tracks to be on. With the brucey bonus that he's inspired by Stomermier so presumably a deck of cards you draw from to decide if you win or lose.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:28
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!Klams posted:YYYESSSS, This is an EXCELLENT Idea, my cat isn't really fussed about wearing costumes... Okay, let's just consider the boxart: Moustache Man may actually be a worse portrait than the melted wax monstrosities from the Trickerion Kickstarter sleeve.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:36
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Speaking of middle-weight KS fatigue, has anyone played Emperor's Choice? It looks interesting but again, Tasty Minstrel seems to have cornered the market on lovely produced games that are solidly middle of the road.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:42
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Mojo Jojo posted:Okay, let's just consider the boxart: Moustache Man may actually be a worse portrait than the melted wax monstrosities from the Trickerion Kickstarter sleeve. I had to look this up because I've only ever seen/played the released version which is a nice looking game and holy poo poo how did that get funded?
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Nov 6, 2019 16:48
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I don't have an opinion on this specific KS game, but last weekend I was idly browsing my FLGS and was astounded by the number of midweight Euros on the shelves that I'd never even heard of. This thread definitely has a narrow focus, with maybe a dozen new games per year that get any amount of discussion. That filter is not really a bad thing, though--those Euros all looked blandly similar. The other thing I noticed was a spate of roll-and-writes based on popular Euros. There must be easy money in slapping existing assets onto Yahtzee.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:51
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Joining the "a friend launched a kickstarter" party but with a twist... HONEY BUZZ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brentdickman/honey-buzz-the-worker-bee-placement-game?ref=user_menu Look how loving gorgeous this game is, and it comes with squishy honey bits!!! I'm in love. I was a fan of the game as a prototype, but they've out did themselves on the final design and components.\ (the twist is that it's a good kickstarter)
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Nov 6, 2019 16:55
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FulsomFrank posted:Speaking of middle-weight KS fatigue, has anyone played Emperor's Choice? It looks interesting but again, Tasty Minstrel seems to have cornered the market on lovely produced games that are solidly middle of the road. Isn't that from the guy who make Yokohama? I recently got to try Yokohama out, and it was much faster and more interesting than I expected.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:57
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CaptainRightful posted:I don't have an opinion on this specific KS game, but last weekend I was idly browsing my FLGS and was astounded by the number of midweight Euros on the shelves that I'd never even heard of. My friends run a board game shop which has pluses and minuses, we play a lot of games but rarely get a huge number of plays of each game. There are loads and load of games out there now, between the big players like AEG and Fantasy Flight cranking games out to the Kickstarted ones and the quality is variable but way better than it used to be. No more War on Terror's but there's not a huge difference between Azul and Stained Glass Azul and Sagrada for example. I like a roll and write like Welcome To... or HexRoller but again there's some bad ones out there like the Dinosaur one.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:57
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golden bubble posted:Isn't that from the guy who make Yokohama? I recently got to try Yokohama out, and it was much faster and more interesting than I expected. Also designed Trains.
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Nov 6, 2019 16:59
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Frozen Peach posted:Joining the "a friend launched a kickstarter" party but with a twist... HONEY BUZZ This is interesting because I'm a beekeeper and had plans in my head for a bee based tile exploration game but there's a few of them out there now. Though mine was based on getting enough food to survive winter.
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Nov 6, 2019 17:03
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If Tigris & Euphrates came out today I would instantly write it off as a bland tile laying Euro. That just shows you how large the market has gotten and a lot of stuff is starting to blend together.
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Nov 6, 2019 17:04
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!Klams posted:YYYESSSS, This is an EXCELLENT Idea, my cat isn't really fussed about wearing costumes... These games all came out long before the current trends in gaming when every game looked like that, and the reason they're talked about now is because they had gameplay that made them rise to the top and stand out and become classics. Today, you have to be visually appealing to make a splash first and foremost, then hopefully have good gameplay behind it. Looking generic and like a game from 10+ years ago is a death sentence if you're not a known designer. al-azad posted:If Tigris & Euphrates came out today I would instantly write it off as a bland tile laying Euro. That just shows you how large the market has gotten and a lot of stuff is starting to blend together. not as long as it said Reiner Knizia on the box! 😼
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Nov 6, 2019 17:12
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E: just got my Bus anniversary edition shipping notification from capstone! Aramoro posted:This is interesting because I'm a beekeeper and had plans in my head for a bee based tile exploration game but there's a few of them out there now. Though mine was based on getting enough food to survive winter. Have you heard of this: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/251632/bee-lives-we-will-only-know-summer Designed by goon nesbit37, who is also a beekeeper Fellis fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 6, 2019 |
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Nov 6, 2019 17:17
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Bottom Liner posted:Looking generic and like a game from 10+ years ago is a death sentence if you're not a known designer. Unless you are Food Chain Magnate, which looks like a 3rd grade arts and crafts project
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Nov 6, 2019 17:46
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al-azad posted:If Tigris & Euphrates came out today I would instantly write it off as a bland tile laying Euro. That just shows you how large the market has gotten and a lot of stuff is starting to blend together. Except that pretty much nobody's putting out any games as simply designed as T&E (Y&Y notwithstanding). The glut is nearly identical KS minis/area control or nearly identical Euros on the Feld-Rosenberg-Lacerda spectrum.
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Nov 6, 2019 17:47
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al-azad posted:If Tigris & Euphrates came out today I would instantly write it off as a bland tile laying Euro. Tigris and Euphrates is a bland tile laying Euro, though?
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Nov 6, 2019 17:59
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Y&Y is a pretty good example of how we're moving away from simple designs.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:09
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al-azad posted:If Tigris & Euphrates came out today I would instantly write it off as a bland tile laying Euro. That just shows you how large the market has gotten and a lot of stuff is starting to blend together. Of course, because you'd have a copy of Stephenson's Rocket or Samurai or TTD already anyway. Which is fine, I just happen to have all of them besides Samurai because I like Knizia's designs but any one of them would be an evergreen. I also want to add that part of them being evergreen status is that they came out early but also that their rules are simple. Part of the complaint is the glut of games with ever increasing mechanics to make them seem unique. Recorded in blogs like this: https://dvatvani.github.io/BGG-Analysis-Part-2.html Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Nov 6, 2019 |
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Nov 6, 2019 18:18
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What is a roll and write? Is this a new genre that sprouted at some point or just putting a name on something that already existed? And if it's new, what's the best example of one?
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Nov 6, 2019 18:19
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Rutibex posted:Unless you are Food Chain Magnate, which looks like a 3rd grade arts and crafts project
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Nov 6, 2019 18:20
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Roll and write is when you have a bunch of players sitting around, watching some dice. One person rolls them, then everybody writes the results down according to whatever rules for placement and scoring, which vary from game to game. And no it's not new, there's just been a lot of them published lately. e: some R&W use a deck of cards for the random element. I guess Draw and Write seemed confusing so they keep the genre. Mr. Squishy fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 6, 2019 |
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Nov 6, 2019 18:26
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The Patchwork R&W, Patchwork Doodle, is great and comes with lil' colored pencils so you can make your quilt all pretty.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:28
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There's a lot less rolling, but my favorite of the &write part is easily roads and boats.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:30
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Mr. Squishy posted:Y&Y is a pretty good example of how we're moving away from simple designs. Nah, Y&Y streamlines a lot of T&E's rough edges without much extra overhead. Also hexes >>>>>>>>>> square grid. GrandpaPants posted:What is a roll and write? Is this a new genre that sprouted at some point or just putting a name on something that already existed? And if it's new, what's the best example of one? Basically any game like Yahtzee where you roll dice then write something down. Twice As Clever is the best IMO.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:30
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CaptainRightful posted:Except that pretty much nobody's putting out any games as simply designed as T&E (Y&Y notwithstanding). The glut is nearly identical KS minis/area control or nearly identical Euros on the Feld-Rosenberg-Lacerda spectrum. Yeah definitely this. Although it can be difficult to weed out the Knziaesque Euros (or even just innovative Euros in general) worth giving a shot from the Euro tracks tracks tracks chaff. I subscribe to a bunch of guilds/geekbuddies (and read this thread/discord) to help find them. Speaking of which: Bridges of Shangri-La thread, Bridges of Shangri-La.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:35
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T-Bone posted:Yeah definitely this. Although it can be difficult to weed out the Knziaesque Euros (or even just innovative Euros in general) worth giving a shot from the Euro tracks tracks tracks chaff. I subscribe to a bunch of guilds/geekbuddies (and read this thread/discord) to help find them. I told you guys about it a while ago, though maybe it's been a year-1.5 years. I think a good person to add to geekbuddies if you want interesting Euros is definitely Clearclaw. His taste for train games are hit or miss, but when it comes to Euros, he knows how to pick the good interactive ones. Completely 180 to anything Rahdo would enjoy.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:41
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Chill la Chill posted:I told you guys about it a while ago, though maybe it's been a year-1.5 years. I think a good person to add to geekbuddies if you want interesting Euros is definitely Clearclaw. His taste for train games are hit or miss, but when it comes to Euros, he knows how to pick the good interactive ones. Completely 180 to anything Rahdo would enjoy. Yeah for sure, although he doesn't rate games anymore (and plays pretty much exclusively 18xx nowadays) so for new stuff you have to poke around a bit.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:44
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golden bubble posted:Isn't that from the guy who make Yokohama? I recently got to try Yokohama out, and it was much faster and more interesting than I expected. Yes, but from what I’ve played so far it seems a fluke design. Trains is god awful and Minerva did nothing with an interesting tile placement idea.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:45
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al-azad posted:Twice As Clever is the best IMO. I love both Twice as Clever and That's So Clever but any time I play with a new person I end up passing off the rules-explaining duties to someone else. They are not difficult games to learn quickly but there's a lot of weird little moving parts/different ways to score and I'm sick to death of starting the game and by round two needing to re-explain at least one color field to every single person at the table. Here's a question: what's the worst R&W? I've got to be honest, despite the production values being really high and the core game mechanics being good I think I have the least fun with Railroad Ink. I still haven't tried any of the "expansions" that are built into the box, though - that might change it up a bit.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:57
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Kiranamos posted:Yes, but from what I’ve played so far it seems a fluke design. Trains is god awful and Minerva did nothing with an interesting tile placement idea. Across the United States looks solid. From everything I've heard it's highly competent, but it doesn't look groundbreaking or anything.
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Nov 6, 2019 18:59
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I got in a few more plays of John Company, and the rules are starting to become clearer. I'm now quite impressed with the design, and it definitely generates a fun and memorable experience filled with delightful petty cruelty between players. I still think that there is perhaps too much randomness in the game, and that the mechanisms for mitigating the randomness are quite opaque - obviously spending more money on actions gives you a better chance of beating the odds on the dice, but manipulating the elephant to protect key regions is not intuitive and seems to require an inordinate amount of planning and money. Many reviews and comments on Board Game Geek complained about the randomness of scoring opportunities, which I found to be the least offensively random part of the game. Currently the game assigns one in three odds to any test: opening trade, conquest, investing in an economy, and sailing. The unified dice test mechanic is nice in that you don't have to remember a bunch of extra modifiers (and in a game with this many rules any economy of this kind is welcome), but perhaps adjusting the target numbers based on task difficulty would smooth things out.
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Nov 6, 2019 19:13
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food court bailiff posted:I love both Twice as Clever and That's So Clever but any time I play with a new person I end up passing off the rules-explaining duties to someone else. They are not difficult games to learn quickly but there's a lot of weird little moving parts/different ways to score and I'm sick to death of starting the game and by round two needing to re-explain at least one color field to every single person at the table. The worst one I've played it is Kokoro, one where you draw individual cards to make a path (or multiple paths) over a board, and you get bonus points for hitting certain sections or something. There are multiple scoring points over the course of the game, and so ostensibly you want to try to maximize your points while still working towards a fully-covered board. Except that if you don't end with a single path that covered the entire board by the end of the game, you're almost certainly going to lose against someone who did, since the score you get from that is way more than anything else. So even if you sacrifice some points throughout the game, it doesn't matter as long as you cover the whole board. Also, drawing only one card each turn really reduces the strategic choices you make, as opposed to something like Welcome To. It was just really, really dull the entire time we played and I'd rather play any other game in the genre. Edit: Also something to do with covering the most of a given symbol that's scattered over the board...or something. I don't remember much about it, except that I didn't like playing it. Mixing it up a lot with the Patchwork roll-and-write, which I also didn't really enjoy, except at least in that you could draw fun patterns in all your patches.
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Nov 6, 2019 19:19
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Fellis posted:E: just got my Bus anniversary edition shipping notification from capstone! Where does Bus fall in the Splotter catalogue as far as complexity and mechanics? Is it a Must Have for fans of their games? I see that it's a 3p minimum, which is different from their other ones that I can see.
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Nov 6, 2019 19:28
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food court bailiff posted:
If we're allowing old rear end games and not just games part of the roll and write revival, Catan Dice Game is a turd
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Nov 6, 2019 19:29
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al-azad posted:Nah, Y&Y streamlines a lot of T&E's rough edges without much extra overhead. Also hexes >>>>>>>>>> square grid. Twice as Clever is great. Me and my wife play it all the time as a game before bed after we put my daughter to bed game.
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Nov 6, 2019 19:39
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Gilgameshback posted:I got in a few more plays of John Company, and the rules are starting to become clearer. I'm now quite impressed with the design, and it definitely generates a fun and memorable experience filled with delightful petty cruelty between players.
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Nov 6, 2019 19:47
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I've played Trismegistus: the Ultimate FormulaThe second is that the game has a fairly flat arc. a couple times now, and despite having one of the worst covers to a board game I've ever seen, I think it's a great game. The game is built around two mechanics. The first is a dice draft, where you pick up a die from pools of six unique custom faces. If you pick from a pool with more dice, you can use that die to take more actions with it. The second is a cool resource management scheme where you can transmute material resources from one kind to another. The goal of the game, from what I've seen, is to gather the right resources to prepare experiment recipes that get you points and prizes, which you can then put to work fulfilling more recipes. There are tracks in this game, but they function kind of like the tracks in Hansa Teutonica where filling those tracks is incidental to playing the rest of the game and that doing certain actions (in this case, filling more advanced experiment recipes) are gated by advancing a sufficient amount on a track. It's an efficiency puzzle, but one that I found very compelling. There are two main issues with the game, but I don't think they're serious problems. The first is that I don't think there's much reason to not pick up the strongest die available in the draft, which makes that part of the game kind of rote. The very premise of the game - that you can transmute one resource into another - means that any limitations your dice choice presents on what materials you pick up are easily overcome by choosing stronger dice that give you more opportunities to transmute. That you're rewarded for transmuting more often by the elemental mastery tracks just makes this problem more pronounced. The color die that you choose restricts what materials you can transmute, which is a strong limitation, but if one symbol has a strong pool it's more likely that the pool has the color at you need. And if you really need another kind of die for whatever reason, you can use a reaction to "follow" another player's action, and if you're playing with 3 other people there's basically no way you won't have the die you need available to you. This all just means that the dice draft is less about picking the right die and more about finding creative ways to work around the limitations the strong dice present you with. The second, broader issue is that the game has a fairly flat arc. As I mentioned, the game is about completing recipes and using the products of that recipe to fulfill the next recipe. The experiment recipes that are available to you grow more complex as the game goes on and the rewards grow as well, but neither grow that much. You're not getting rewards and powers that will dramatically transform the way you play the game or even strengthen your actions to a significant degree. The game is more structured around building a consistent flow of rewards and actions. There's no sense that you've built something or that your "character" has improved, but more that you've accomplished a set of goals that you've set for yourself. I actually like this structure of game, personally. It reminds me of The Gallerist, where a big part of the game is choosing when to activate the bonuses available on the main board and on your player board and picking out which endgame scoring conditions you'll hunt down.
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Nov 6, 2019 20:13
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Patchwork Doodle (roll & write) is garbage with no tension or anything that made the original great aside from the cute art. I've played 4 times now and never seen anyone struggle to fill their quilt or anything. The scoring is both boring and cumbersome, and even doubling the penalties for empty squares did little to make the game even slightly challenging. It's just awful. We even tried drafting cards each round instead of rolling hte die and making every person draw the same thing and it barely made the game any more interesting. Last time I played I followed it with a game of the original with a player new to both and he was astounded by how much better Patchwork was. The tension of tile laying, time management, and button economy is a brilliant set of mechanics that all influence every choice and make everything matter a lot, and none of that is present in Doodle.
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Nov 6, 2019 20:23
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