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People mention Foundation influences. B5 is mostly LoTR and LoTR is awesome. But Asimov is interwoven in the show's DNA and blowing up Earth as a sign of galactic transcendence is very Asimov.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:39
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TraderStav posted:Just finished Deconstruction. What the gently caress? So, Deconstruction was an episode that was whipped up after a surprise renewal of the show after PTEN canned it. Originally, the series finale, Sleeping in Light, had been filmed in that episode's place, but B5 season 5 and rights to syndication was picked up by TNT at the last minute.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:39
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TraderStav posted:Just finished Deconstruction. What the gently caress? This episode was what happened when they found out they were getting an unexpected season five after being told they were canceled with four. The episode they'd filmed to be the series finale got bumped all the way back to the end of season five, and they had to get a new season four finale in right quick. So JMS put the pedal to the metal and did an anthology ep.  I actually quite like Deconstruction, but I know the way it's setup doesn't work for everyone, and that a lot of people dislike one or more of the segments, but personally I really like it, especially the conclusion. The evolved Human from the end's ship even tells him that "unnatural fluctuations in the sun". Someone's blowing the sun up, though no one (not even JMS) has ever figured out who or why. JMS did mention in a post somewhere that humanity was moving to take ownership of the Vorlon homeworld, having finally reached a state advanced enough that the AIs guarding the place will stand down. Also we should note that Jason Ironheart from season one's Mind War, was the very first human to undergo the matter to energy transformation, and that it wasn't a coincidence that he said "I'll see you again in a million years" and that the episode finale is set a million years in the future....
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Nov 7, 2019 03:48
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Worth noting that's how it ended in Asimov.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:58
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Shbobdb posted:Worth noting that's how it ended in Asimov. Foundation and Earth shows the "end" of earth being the surface is irradiated beyond repair by the spacer device used 25,000 years previously. The Eternals ended up "destroying" earth by making everything too safe, and humanity dying out. The Gods Themselves has the sun problem being fixed by trading energy with a 3rd universe. Which series has the sun actually exploding?
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Nov 7, 2019 04:02
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Captain Lockley? More like Captain Foxley.
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Nov 7, 2019 04:18
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Eh, I liked it better with Arthur C Clarke. I get that ascending to a higher plane of existence and just becoming some kind of sentient energy is just one of those weird sci-fi things, but I've never really gotten the point. Aside from the whole thing where "turning into pure energy" is a weird roundabout way of saying "achieving godhood" in a way that's trying very hard to be vaguely secular. In Childhood's End, it's portrayed as being at least as horrifying as it is magnificent, as well as totally alien and inscrutable. I've said it before and I'll say it again, B5 is a bridge between old and new sci-fi, because most newer sci-fi is so grounded as opposed to just going with some kind of insane abstract concept like that, whereas older sci-fi was seldom bold enough to actually construct realistic politics in their future settings, and logistically couldn't tell that long-term of a story.
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Nov 7, 2019 04:19
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TraderStav posted:Captain Lockley? More like Captain Foxley. Tracey Scoggins was also in an episode of DS9 where she plays a horny Cardassian trying to get into Chief O'Brien's pants.
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Nov 7, 2019 04:41
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TraderStav posted:Captain Lockley? More like Captain Foxley. During the 20th Anniversary Cast Reunion panel, Tracy Scoggins explained her attitude on joining the show, which I'll put behind black bars because it references the S4/S5 transition: As she tells it, Scoggins was a sci-fi fan since she was a little girl. Went as a Vulcan at Halloween. Babylon 5 fan from day one. And, of course, her favorite character was Ivanova. So she's watching the show, once Season 5 starts airing, and her immediate gut reaction: "Who's this bitch?" [Pause] "Oh. That's me. I have to like her.  "
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Nov 7, 2019 04:49
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CainFortea posted:Foundation and Earth shows the "end" of earth being the surface is irradiated beyond repair by the spacer device used 25,000 years previously. Someone destroyed the earth but we dont know who or why. It was robots! Someone destroyed the sun, we dont know who and we dont know why -- new JMS mystery. I think it was the Hand.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:08
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Shbobdb posted:Someone destroyed the earth but we dont know who or why. It was robots! We know who destroyed the earth in each of those stories though.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:09
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We do. But (especially in Foundation) the characters dont. Our perspective in B5 is much more limited than in Asimov. It ties into JMSs ecumenical view. As long as there is a homeworld we can't truly be part of a galactic society. The greatest prophets of the show have their homeworld destroyed. Why should humanity experience anything less as a sign of enlightenment. Maybe they should have had Garibaldi kick a cat in S2E1 and Sheridan rescue a dog! Now that's hollywood!
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Nov 7, 2019 05:24
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Uh, yea. In the Foundation series we know exactly what caused the earth to become irradiated. It was spacers. Specifically from Solaria. Stopping them is what caused Giskard to stop functioning because he tried to rely on the 0th law, but wasn't advanced enough. And he passed on his emotional control to R. Daneel Olivaw to carry on his work of protecting humanity as a whole.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:25
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CainFortea posted:Uh, yea. In the Foundation series we know exactly what caused the earth to become irradiated. It was spacers. Specifically from Solaria. Stopping them is what caused Giskard to stop functioning because he tried to rely on the 0th law, but wasn't advanced enough. And he passed on his emotional control to R. Daneel Olivaw to carry on his work of protecting humanity as a whole. Can you read? Harry didn't know that. Mule didn't Nor did any of the other characters. Hell, the audience didn't until like 20 years later.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:33
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Shbobdb posted:Can you read? Okay, so I guess the characters in the foundation series that knew don't count because you can't be wrong on the internet. Okay. Fuckoff.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:37
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CainFortea posted:Okay, so I guess the characters in the foundation series that knew don't count because you can't be wrong on the internet. Okay. Fuckoff. God you are dumb. What part of "we (the audience) do (know) but the characters (in the narrative we are discussing) dont (know). Our (the audience) perspective is more limited in b5 than in Asimov." Was hard for you to understand? Are you one of those gifted kids who did well in elementary school and failed put of college?
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Nov 7, 2019 05:44
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Lol this owns
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Nov 7, 2019 05:55
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Shbobdb posted:It ties into JMSs ecumenical view. As long as there is a homeworld we can't truly be part of a galactic society. The greatest prophets of the show have their homeworld destroyed. Why should humanity experience anything less as a sign of enlightenment. Okay, this I don't get. There's only 2-3 races that lose their homeworld in B5, and none of them seem particularly prophetic. And I've never seen the word ecumenical aside from councils and patriarchs.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:58
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Professional goal post mover here I guess. Just because you forgot or never knew how those stories ended is no reason to get snippy.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:59
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SlothfulCobra posted:Okay, this I don't get. There's only 2-3 races that lose their homeworld in B5, and none of them seem particularly prophetic. G'Kar and Mollari. The heart and soul of the show, one of whom is hailed as a prophet and the other can see the future. As for the word choice I'm open to suggestions. Humanism? Universalism? Catholic? "Promoting or relating to unity" seemed the best choice despite its ecclesiastical baggage.
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Nov 7, 2019 06:02
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CainFortea posted:Professional goal post mover here I guess. Just because you forgot or never knew how those stories ended is no reason to get snippy. You are really committed to making yourself look like you can't read. It's a unique gimmick for a mostly text based forum but I appreciate the moxy. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 06:05
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SlothfulCobra posted:Okay, this I don't get. There's only 2-3 races that lose their homeworld in B5, and none of them seem particularly prophetic. (Late S4 spoiler) The Drakh 
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Nov 7, 2019 15:37
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TraderStav posted:Was the final dedication at the end throwing shade on critics? Well, this is what JMS said at the time: quote:And yeah, that little closing card is going to remain on the show for its life...which will be long, long after its detractors (and admittedly myself) have gone to dust. On the one hand, it is a statement of hope to anyone else out there who has a dream, to follow it no matter who speaks against you, no matter the odds, no matter what they say to or about you, no matter what roadblocks they throw in your way. What matters is that you remain true to your vision.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:08
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Mal-3 posted:Well, this is what JMS said at the time: Hah! That's great. I respect that. I keep hearing that the Season finale for 4 was moved to the end of 5. Is it a dumb (or spoilery) question to ask if the refilmed it or was the finale mostly intact with the same footage? Seems odd to me that they could reuse it a whole year later, unless it doesn't include the same folks.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:50
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Entirely intact. Very mild spoilers: It's set decades in the future.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:59
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JMS claims he always knew exactly how Sleeping in Light was going to go and it’s at the end of the story, so it changed very little from his original concept. With the exception of Sinclair vs Sheridan and some dialogue of course.
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Nov 7, 2019 23:21
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That seems weird to me. Did the original Key version have B4 come back to the present? I figured Sinclair as Valen was the original end, so Babylon^2. Did Valen only live 20 years in the past? Seems unlikely since he clearly crushed rear end to dust and had a ton of kids
Somebody fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 00:13
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Shbobdb posted:G'Kar and Mollari. The heart and soul of the show, one of whom is hailed as a prophet and the other can see the future. Now you're losing me further, because I'm pretty sure Narn and Centauri Prime don't blow up during the course of the show.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:31
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Please fix your spoilers! Aww man
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Nov 8, 2019 00:39
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Doctor Zero posted:JMS claims he always knew exactly how Sleeping in Light was going to go and it’s at the end of the story, so it changed very little from his original concept. With the exception of Sinclair vs Sheridan and some dialogue of course. He might reasonably have known at the start of S2 with the introduction of Sheridan. But his original outline had a second five-year show after the first, which concluded with Sinclair alone on a planet fishing.
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Nov 8, 2019 01:23
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SlothfulCobra posted:Now you're losing me further, because I'm pretty sure Narn and Centauri Prime don't blow up during the course of the show. They are destroyed. In an unclean way but it fuels transcendence. Clean destruction to couple with clean transcendence is a nice coda.
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Nov 8, 2019 02:32
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TraderStav posted:Please fix your spoilers! Aww man Sorry! I dont think I actually spoiled much other than mentioning other episodes that happened for you. But still my bad.
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Nov 8, 2019 02:33
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Shbobdb posted:Sorry! I dont think I actually spoiled much other than mentioning other episodes that happened for you. But still my bad. Oh thank God, I thought B4 came back AGAIN. I could have seen a plot where that happened. No harm no foul, a broken spoiler bracket sent me into a panic and thought it was tied into the series finale. One thought I had was the future humans go back in time and become the Vorlons and Kosh is actually a human. We shall see though! about to fire up S05E02.
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Nov 8, 2019 03:06
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TraderStav posted:Oh thank God, I thought B4 came back AGAIN. I could have seen a plot where that happened. No harm no foul, a broken spoiler bracket sent me into a panic and thought it was tied into the series finale. Nooo. The Vorlons and Shadows have very much left the playground as promised. They weren't very good about packing away their toys first though...
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Nov 8, 2019 03:19
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TraderStav posted:Oh thank God, I thought B4 came back AGAIN. I could have seen a plot where that happened. No harm no foul, a broken spoiler bracket sent me into a panic and thought it was tied into the series finale. Spoilering more for the other guy watching right now: B5 is not a time travel show. They got the one very good two parter out of it and that's the last you're going to see of time shenanigans.
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Nov 8, 2019 03:39
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TraderStav posted:Oh thank God, I thought B4 came back AGAIN. I could have seen a plot where that happened. No harm no foul, a broken spoiler bracket sent me into a panic and thought it was tied into the series finale. It's an interesting counterfactual: how would the show look if Sinclair had stayed on since he is valen. We know him being valen is set from the beginning
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Nov 8, 2019 03:58
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Shbobdb posted:It's an interesting counterfactual: how would the show look if Sinclair had stayed on since he is valen. We know him being valen is set from the beginning My guess is We still get Old Sinclair, it's just that he's now he's from Sinclair's future, rather than prematurely aged, and working alongside himself. Sleeping in the Light goes the same, but ends with him setting up for Babylon Squared.
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Nov 8, 2019 04:02
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I don't think the whole soul-accountancy that Delenn talks about at the top of season 2 ever gets brought up again, but it's an interesting concept. I'm pretty sure the whole shadow war would've gone differently too, like specifically about the ending: The whole Vorlon/Shadow conflict being unveiled as selfish and detrimental to the younger species. If Sinclair stayed on and was supposed to go back in time at the finale of the show, that couldn't have been how the Shadow War was supposed to go, because then what's the point in going back to help the vorlons gank the shadows in the first shadow war? All it really does is give the vorlons free reign to monkey with all the other species for the purpose of manipulating them to kill the shadows and win a weird bet.
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Nov 8, 2019 04:28
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think the whole soul-accountancy that Delenn talks about at the top of season 2 ever gets brought up again, but it's an interesting concept. Because if the vorlons kept to the agreement and the shadow won, they'd have lost. By having them snag B4 and go back in time even after the finale of the war, it postponed the war long enough to be won. Which actually might have been interesting to see Sinclair being the smug future knower and the Vorlons being pissed at not knowing something.
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Nov 8, 2019 04:40
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I really like the image of younger vim and vinegar vorlons responding to Sinclair/Valen going "Understanding is a three edged sword"
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Nov 8, 2019 06:55
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