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Vasudus posted:the reality is that things are going to continue a steady decline of getting worse for most people, the only thing you can somewhat control is the speed and severity that it happens WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE BOYS AND GIRLS!!!
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Nov 7, 2019 16:02
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Look, they're a poo poo company and whatnot, but plenty of other employers out there are easily as bad, if not worse. Maybe if theyd pay their taxes and stop fighting.against social programs, as well as mistreating warehouse workers, nobody would poo poo on them. 
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Nov 7, 2019 16:24
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I've always thought this is a dumb as hell strategy. Reconciliation can only be used once per budget cycle, and if you gently caress it up, it's gone (See the Republican attempt to repeal Obamacare in 2017). The left's entire theory of action is that they need to prove to the voters the left will do for them what the Republicans won't, but you need to go FDR's Hundred Days for that poo poo, with constant coverage of new bills that will help people's lives. One bill a year is just not going to cut it. Generally, I agree. Ideally you have a bunch of angry leftists in office tearing all the goddamn corrupt edifices and institutions down and replacing them with poo poo that will allow us to survive the coming climate apocalypse while making sure that everyone actually has some decent basic standard of living, and generally making everyone's lives better in ways driven by popular consensus. But there's a transition period when the presidency and senate still exists and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi (and their political allies) are still in power. I don't have a good answer for how to get to the ideal state quickly, but I do know that even if you get to 55 Dems in the senate in 2020 (or hell even 65 somehow) you probably won't get 50 of them to vote for Medicare 4 All without significant arm twisting.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:38
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Like, FDR came into office after years of economic depression, people near starvation, and with literal armed spontaneous uprisings popping up across the Midwest. We are nowhere near there.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:42
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Crakkerjakk posted:Like, FDR came into office after years of economic depression, people near starvation, and with literal armed spontaneous uprisings popping up across the Midwest. Had twitter been a thing back then it would be more like it is now. We are just lazy.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:42
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Hey so the Saudi government had intelligence assets inside Twitter to get info about dissents.NYTimes posted:SAN FRANCISCO — Ali Alzabarah was an engineer who rose through the ranks at Twitter to a job that gave him access to personal information and account data of the social media service’s millions of users.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:44
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CommieGIR posted:Maybe if theyd pay their taxes and stop fighting.against social programs, as well as mistreating warehouse workers, nobody would poo poo on them. All of the billionaires that signed that stupid pledge to give away all their money by the time they died have more money now than they did when they signed the pledge. Gates pumped a bunch of money into charter school propaganda, the revolutionary idea that maybe schools would see better outcomes if we paid teachers less, have them do more work, and they had less job security. Crakkerjakk fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 16:46
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colachute posted:Had twitter been a thing back then it would be more like it is now. Disagree. There were a lot more people going hungry back then. And traditionally, for real revolutions what you tend to see is poo poo being pretty bad for a large group of people at the same time that established political powers focused on inter-faction fights and starting violence and then it spiraling out of control. There ARE a lot more distractions available today, for sure.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:57
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its going to take all of about 5 seconds of public uprising before the military and police are turned on them and it will occur to raucous applause from atleast 40% of the country
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Nov 7, 2019 16:58
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A Bad Poster posted:it sounds like something from a bad trip that would make you want to slit your wrists You stumbled upon a metaphor for 2019 while boomering over a song from 2019 and wonder why its popular.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:00
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Crakkerjakk posted:I believe his usual theory of power is more along the lines of "we'll win more seats than the Republicans, and then we'll have supporters go confront dipshits who aren't getting with the program wherever they go, and I'll tell my VP to ignore the senate parliamentarian and just pass whatever we feel like through reconciliation." Which is a hilariously bad line and Sanders' weakest argument, IMO. He seems to think that if he's president, it'll just all work out and the GOP voters or senators will just hop on board, and the filibuster can stick around, too. His Green Lantern thinking is possibly why his legislative record is poor. Ideologically pretty good, pragmatically suspect, IMO.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:11
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Crakkerjakk posted:Like, FDR came into office after years of economic depression, people near starvation, and with literal armed spontaneous uprisings popping up across the Midwest. ive been listening to the audible version of Jean Edward Smith's bio of FDR for the past month or so in the car. I'm halfway through at 18 hours in, but I wanna finish it before I get to the 6 hr hardcore history japan finale im at the point where he's about to receive the nomination vs al smith. the economic depression was a big issue, with fdr pledging support for unemployment insurance and repealing prohibition, which had lost the majority of support in every state but was still a third rail issue for candidates. honestly so far there's been a shitload of parallels between Trump and FDR- fdr would constantly exaggerate stories or self-insert himself into events, dead marriage, hella money- fdr just had a mother who beat social issues into his head and he forgot to wash his hands after meeting the boy scouts. maybe that adversity was enough to make him not a shitheel. With recession looming like a silent fart in an elevator, social services being slashes during the trump campaign and having to be built up again by whatever democrat gets in again, dudes stocking up ar-15s for their bundy ranch, and hes talking about amazon deliveries in national parks we're getting there man btw if you want 36 hours of ny state political history and conjecture about who elanor was banging on the reg its a good, if extremely thorough listen
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Nov 7, 2019 17:16
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M_Gargantua posted:You stumbled upon a metaphor for 2019 while boomering over a song from 2019 and wonder why its popular. By that logic music should have sounded like that since the 80s. I dunno, I don't need my music to reinforce my awful mental health status. Vicious cycle and whatnot.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:17
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Edit:NM
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Nov 7, 2019 17:23
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mlmp08 posted:Which is a hilariously bad line and Sanders' weakest argument, IMO. He seems to think that if he's president, it'll just all work out and the GOP voters or senators will just hop on board, and the filibuster can stick around, too. His Green Lantern thinking is possibly why his legislative record is poor. Ideologically pretty good, pragmatically suspect, IMO. He doesn't though I mean you're really projecting Biden onto him whole cloth and its bizarre.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:27
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Proud Christian Mom posted:He doesn't though I mean you're really projecting Biden onto him whole cloth and its bizarre. No, Biden's claim is stupider, but similar in that Bernie seems to think that he'll just win over the people, which will force republicans to either get along with him or else he'll unleash unnecessarily convoluted parliamentarian tactics, but won't blow up the veto, because of Senate  and maybe also Green Lantern arrogance.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:35
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I think realistically no democrat will be able to get anything done, unless there is like people in the streets level support. Part of what moved me from warren to sanders is the argument that only sanders has a shot at getting people in the streets for that. (Also the democratic foreign policy blob hating sanders while not having a problem with warren) We need to have continuous political agitation, because politics are continuous. Doorbelling and marching for issues even after winning elections. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 17:36
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mlmp08 posted:Which is a hilariously bad line and Sanders' weakest argument, IMO. He seems to think that if he's president, it'll just all work out and the GOP voters or senators will just hop on board, and the filibuster can stick around, too. His Green Lantern thinking is possibly why his legislative record is poor. Ideologically pretty good, pragmatically suspect, IMO. Like, "we'll win more seats" is the only way things change for the better. Well, that and violent revolution, but that's vastly more likely to turn out shittier for everyone. And in most of the country more eligible voters didn't vote than voted for either party, so it's much less "cater to GOP voters" and much more "cater to voters that currently stay home." And his legislative record is pretty good for a independent socdem who's been in office since HW.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:37
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:ive been listening to the audible version of Jean Edward Smith's bio of FDR for the past month or so in the car. I'm halfway through at 18 hours in, but I wanna finish it before I get to the 6 hr hardcore history japan finale HAHAH dude he barely finishes the Bataan death march in part 3. This is going to be longer, much longer than Blueprint for Armageddon
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Nov 7, 2019 17:38
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I'm becoming increasingly convinced that actual progressives/leftists will have to just pretend to be moderates and then ignore their constituents. It's what the GOP does to great effect with regard to loving over workers in favor of the mega-elite.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:38
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Crakkerjakk posted:Gates pumped a bunch of money into charter school propaganda, the revolutionary idea that maybe schools would see better outcomes if we paid teachers less, have them do more work, and they had less job security. Also: http://assets.press.princeton.edu/chapters/s8863.pdf tl;dr: Smaller schools have the best results, also the worst.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:40
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Proud Christian Mom posted:He doesn't though I mean you're really projecting Biden onto him whole cloth and its bizarre. IIRC Sanders has stated in the past, when asked what will happen if the Dems don't win the Senate, that McConnell and the Republicans will be forced to bow to grass-roots pressure to allow his agenda to go through.* This feels... optimistic at best. *I swear he said this during the... first debate? Maybe? I don't think I'm crazy but it's hard to dig through and find a specific source.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:41
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Crakkerjakk posted:And his legislative record is pretty good for a independent socdem who's been in office since HW. Bernie and Warren are the two candidates who I most ideologically align with. But what is a piece of legislation that he got passed in all his time in the Senate? Like Sanders proposed it and got it passed, not "he voted for this thing everyone else voted for."
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Nov 7, 2019 17:41
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mlmp08 posted:I'm becoming increasingly convinced that actual progressives/leftists will have to just pretend to be moderates and then ignore their constituents. It's what the GOP does to great effect with regard to loving over workers in favor of the mega-elite. Most Republicans actively enjoy wealth inequality because they’re on the positive side of it. The struggling coal worker trump supporter is a small fraction of the party, and gets the focus because the well off libs who do all the writing and set all the narratives are most comfortable blaming the poor. Your median republican lives a comfortable life, well above that of the average American.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:41
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I think Trump has laid a pretty good blueprint for taking over a party. Like's it's not perfect because Trump mostly is 100% fine with all the normal republican poo poo (except for the trade war thing), but most Republicans are terrified of crossing him because most republican voters love Trump and he'll call out Reps that annoy him at the drop of a feather. And Trump getting elected first ripped a lot of the stupid decorum band-aid off our politics so if Sanders wins and does something similar there's less weight behind "how dare he criticize the honorable rep Johnson (D-Amazon)"
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Nov 7, 2019 17:44
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MA-Horus posted:HAHAH dude he barely finishes the Bataan death march in part 3. Is it better researched the Blueprint or is he pushing a bunch of outdated narratives in this one too
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Nov 7, 2019 17:45
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Crakkerjakk posted:I think Trump has laid a pretty good blueprint for taking over a party. Like's it's not perfect because Trump mostly is 100% fine with all the normal republican poo poo (except for the trade war thing), but most Republicans are terrified of crossing him because most republican voters love Trump and he'll call out Reps that annoy him at the drop of a feather. The problem with looking towards the Republicans as an example is that they control a vast media network with roots dating back to the 1970s that is dedicated to crafting and controlling a specific narrative for their voters with a substantial religious component. Republicans aren't going to go against Trump because not only will Trump call out any defectors, but so will Hannity and Carlson on Fox, Limbaugh and Levin on the radio, r/The_Donald and all the other internet cesspits, and potentially their own pastor at their church. The left simply does not have and will never have that level of media and narrative control.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:51
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Best Friends posted:Most Republicans actively enjoy wealth inequality because they’re on the positive side of it. I do not consider a Republican family of 2-4 people earning $40-60K/year to be crushing the wealth inequality fight against the elite.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:51
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Look you dumb cunts. All I did was say those amazon ads were because they were hiring seasonally. Some of you stupid fucks just love misinterpreting poo poo. gently caress you all, give me a 72. Dwanyelle posted:Amazon employees have to piss in bottles because they're held to such extreme standards they can't afford to take a bathroom break. Especially gently caress you. I said they pay better and have decent benefits, I'm not sucking Bezos cock you trite bitch.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:53
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https://www.amazon.com/s?k=meltdown&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
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Nov 7, 2019 17:55
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Best Friends posted:I think realistically no democrat will be able to get anything done, unless there is like people in the streets level support. Part of what moved me from warren to sanders is the argument that only sanders has a shot at getting people in the streets for that. (Also the democratic foreign policy blob hating sanders while not having a problem with warren) I buy this argument but my reaction has been to stick with Warren because Sander's theory of change requires sustained grassroots effort and if he can't turn that out to actually win the primary then he'll probably fail to execute it as a candidate or president. So I figure that either he turns out people and wins despite me, or I vote for Warren whose insider approach will deliver incremental but not transformational change.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:00
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mlmp08 posted:Bernie and Warren are the two candidates who I most ideologically align with. But what is a piece of legislation that he got passed in all his time in the Senate? Like Sanders proposed it and got it passed, not "he voted for this thing everyone else voted for." Seven as primary sponsor. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357 Same as Warren https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/elizabeth_warren/412542
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Nov 7, 2019 18:04
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Internet Wizard posted:Is it better researched the Blueprint or is he pushing a bunch of outdated narratives in this one too He's pushing his opinions, which is what Dan Carlin always does. He's not a historian after all.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:04
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gently caress Gates.
Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 18:06
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Look you dumb cunts. THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING JEFF BEZOS WOULD SAY! GET 'IM!!
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Nov 7, 2019 18:09
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This loving thread.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:10
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Casimir Radon posted:gently caress Gates. but he buys hamburgers just like us!
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Nov 7, 2019 18:10
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Tryzzub posted:but he buys hamburgers just like us! 
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Nov 7, 2019 18:13
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Dwanyelle posted:Let's not forget an obscene fortune that he *doesn't even know what to do with* It's amazing how hosed in the head billionaires are. He could literally bankroll good works the whole world over but it hasn't even crossed his mind, yet lol space travel. It's why I'm not really worried about Billionaires ruling the world after things go to poo poo; first time you try to put an exploding collar on your pmcs you're gonna double your weight in lead
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Nov 7, 2019 18:18
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mlmp08 posted:I'm becoming increasingly convinced that actual progressives/leftists will have to just pretend to be moderates and then ignore their constituents. It's what the GOP does to great effect with regard to loving over workers in favor of the mega-elite. Those workers love getting hosed over if it fucks over black people
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Nov 7, 2019 18:32
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