Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

odiv posted:

I'm all for making politicians pass a Canadian values te--

Wait sorry, it's for who now?

Ostensibly muslims but two thirds of the program�s investor immigrants are from mainland china. The problem is the outright fraud by applicants who loan QC money and immediately move to BC, not the lack of Canadian values.

# ? Oct 30, 2019 17:54

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# ? May 24, 2024 09:19

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

No marriage for you if you're holding two different people's hands at once!

# ? Oct 30, 2019 17:58

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

The Squamish Nation is expanding the scope of their proposed project at the Kits side of Burrard Bridge

quote:

Squamish Nation�s planned development on reserve land in Vancouver doubles in size, includes 11 towers

A First Nations-led development proposal in the heart of Vancouver has doubled in size from its original plans to include 6,000 units of mostly rental apartments in 11 towers, a project expected to be worth billions of dollars.

The Senakw development, to be built on part of the traditional land of the Squamish Nation in the neighbourhood now known as Kitsilano, across the False Creek inlet west of downtown Vancouver, will bring a level of density and building style to the area unlike anything there now.

In April, the Squamish announced a plan for 3,000 units on the site. Squamish councillor Khelsilem told The Globe and Mail Monday that the nation�s planning group has decided to double the size and potential value. Residents of Kitsilano have traditionally opposed buildings of more than a few storeys, and community activists earlier in the year said they hoped the Squamish would consult them on the project.

�The reasonable expectation my people have is they�ve seen this whole city built up around them with very little benefit. Now they are wanting us to go this far,� said Khelsilem, who uses one name. �We as council have a responsibility to make sure the highest value is created on an asset they own.�

The City of Vancouver would have very little influence on the plan, because the land is owned by the Squamish Nation and not subject to local zoning or bylaws. Mayor Kennedy Stewart has called the housing project an opportunity to demonstrate the city�s commitment to reconciliation with Indigenous communities.

It would be one of the largest private First Nations investment projects in the country, expected by the Squamish to be in the billions of dollars, and turn the First Nation into a major developer in Vancouver�s lucrative housing market.

The 4.7-hectare project must be approved by the Squamish Nation�s approximately 3,000 members in a referendum on Dec. 10.

They�ll have to decide if they are comfortable with the idea of a 50-50 profit-sharing partnership with Vancouver developer Ian Gillespie of Westbank Corp.

The Squamish would provide the land, and Westbank would do the construction.

Mr. Gillespie�s company is just finishing the Vancouver House project across the inlet, which, at 56 storeys, will be the same height as the tallest tower of Senakw.

A letter from the council to nation members says that, through a formal request for proposals and an assessment by the accounting firm Ernst & Young, �council concluded that a partnership with Westbank � will generate highest [financial value] and best-use leasing opportunities at Senakw.�

The letter notes that, under regulations from the federal department Indigenous Services Canada, members� approval is needed to allow the nation to enter a business relationship with Westbank.

Squamish Nation members are also being asked to approve the idea of having as many as 30 per cent of the units potentially sold on a leasehold basis, with a maximum 120-year lease. This is a new idea for the Squamish, who have typically done traditional rentals, such as their arrangements with a mall in West Vancouver.

In a referendum 10 years ago, the nation approved a much smaller development on the land, which is near Burrard Bridge, with only two towers. Those never went ahead because of a downturn in the housing market.

The firm Revery Architecture has designed the towers to echo elements of totem poles and reflect the mountains and sky of the North Shore, Khelsilem said.

Because it is on Indigenous land, the project is relatively free from city constraints.

As a result, planners are looking at providing parking for only 10 per cent of the apartments, far below the usual minimum, and abandoning the city�s preference for towers that sit on podiums of townhouses.

Instead, the 11 towers will rise straight up. That will leave 80 per cent of the land available for publicly accessible space, some of which will be parks.
Khelselim said reducing the amount of parking so significantly will result in huge cost savings for everyone who eventually lives there, since an individual car stall would cost $80,000 to $120,000 to build.

Instead, the project will be marketed to those who don�t own cars or are willing to sell them to live downtown. The nation�s planning team is also looking at how to get a streetcar running on a former rail line that borders the Squamish land.

The team still has to negotiate with the city over water, sewer and waste-removal services, but the general idea is that the Squamish will collect taxes on all of the units, including the half owned by Westbank, and pay for services with that.

Khelselim said the project will provide a lot of opportunities for work for Squamish members in the expected six-year construction period.
Building could begin in 2021 if the project is approved in the referendum.

Honestly interested to see the renders of this thing to see how on earth they're gonna fit 11 towers on this tiny sliver of land. It'll be real interesting to see what it looks like since they're able to ignore whatever the normal City of Vancouver rules are.

Some yimbys on twitter so excited to see [big number] unit development that they're like, woke yimby pro-feudalism. Uhh ok sure guys. It's ok to be excited.

https://twitter.com/CitizenYan/status/1191758052996730880?s=20

https://twitter.com/amoralorealis/status/1191739643370229761?s=20

Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Nov 6, 2019

# ? Nov 5, 2019 18:32

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

Seems like a decent idea, let's see how it gets hosed into development hell.

# ? Nov 5, 2019 18:39

Claes Oldenburger: Apr 23, 2010; Metal magician!

Femtosecond posted:

The Squamish Nation is expanding the scope of their proposed project at the Kits side of Burrard Bridge

Honestly interested to see the renders of this thing to see how on earth they're gonna fit 11 towers on this tiny sliver of land. It'll be real interesting to see what it looks like since they're able to ignore whatever the normal City of Vancouver rules are.

Some yimbys on twitter so excited to see [big number] unit development that they're like, woke yimby pro-feudalism. Uhh ok sure guys. It's ok to be excited.

https://twitter.com/CitizenYan/status/1191758052996730880?s=20

https://twitter.com/amoralorealis/status/1191739643370229761?s=20

I hope this ends up as a profitable venture for them, both because more rental housing is a great idea and because this is the greatest gently caress you to the NIMBYs.

# ? Nov 5, 2019 19:33

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Can�t wait for the amazing crocodile tears from kits residents when they get hosed by corporate capitalism.

quote:

�We as council have a responsibility to make sure the highest value is created on an asset they own.�

# ? Nov 5, 2019 21:27

mashed: Jul 27, 2004

Given the attitude of a lot of Kits owners to any form of densification there is an almost limitless amount of schadenfreude that could come from this. I'm guessing it being a first nations development allows them to ignore VIEW CONES as well ?

# ? Nov 5, 2019 22:15

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

NGL its probably gonna end up like that loving Tsawwassen megamall and be a big deal at first but ultimately become a ghost town and a bunch of guys holding empty bags

# ? Nov 5, 2019 23:15

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

cowofwar posted:

SURPRISE CANADIAN VALUES TEST LOL

https://twitter.com/radiocanadainfo/status/1189578156254154752?s=21

20 questions, you can fail it three times.

I don't know what those tweets say but I see the magic quebecker racist word "laicite"

# ? Nov 5, 2019 23:22

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Really looking forward to a first-nations built arcology solving the housing crisis.

# ? Nov 5, 2019 23:27

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

A poo poo ton of rental housing? Cool.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 00:05

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Juul-Whip posted:

NGL its probably gonna end up like that loving Tsawwassen megamall and be a big deal at first but ultimately become a ghost town and a bunch of guys holding empty bags

I mean, every development in Vancouver right now has a high chance of tons of bagholders, but I don't see any development that close to downtown ending up empty.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 00:58

UnfortunateSexFart: May 18, 2008; ð» ððð« ð·ððð·
ð ð ð ð« ð®ð ð¾ð ð ð¡ððð

I prefer 99 year leases just for the irony of non-natives losing their home and/or selling it for almost nothing. This is already happening on the 1980s built townhouses on reserve land on False Creek.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 03:37

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

mashed_penguin posted:

Given the attitude of a lot of Kits owners to any form of densification there is an almost limitless amount of schadenfreude that could come from this. I'm guessing it being a first nations development allows them to ignore VIEW CONES as well ?

Yeah they don't have to care about view cones, though there's no view cones over this site or really any notable view of anything anyway to begin with.

Since the development doesn't have to correspond to any City of Vancouver rules, that also explains why only 10% of the units will have parking, and why it's not a typical "tower and podium" style Vancouver development. No parking minimums and no need to heed any design input from city staff.

YIMBYs on twitter today seem most excited about the low parking rules, though honestly I feel there's a bit of green washing (urbanism-washing?) going on here. What we're really seeing here is an example of what developers would build if they had no rules imposed on them, which is to utterly maximize profits. This means declining to build expensive parking, and opting for bigger, thicker buildings, which increases the amount of units while having negative impacts on light and views.

The area is actually pretty poorly served by public transit, so by building a near zero parking development as if there was a Skytrain next door, this is going to force Translink to suddenly have to significantly invest in new transit services to support the ~12k people that will eventually live on this tiny slice of land. Of course the property taxes from this development will go to the Squamish Nation with no share to Translink so yeah great deal for the Squamish here.

It's totally reasonable that the Squamish Nation should do the things they're doing with this development in order to maximize their revenue, especially given how they were screwed out of their larger Kits reservation lands (seriously we should give those back?) but come on, the Squamish isn't declining to build parking because they like bicycles.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 04:00

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

Squamish Nation aren't gonna give a poo poo about building schools either.

edit:

So how do public utilities work? Who's going to pay for the extra sewer capacity?

half cocaine fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Nov 6, 2019

# ? Nov 6, 2019 05:10

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

Hootsuite CEO Ryan Holmes to step down in wake of leadership concerns

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-hootsuite-ceo-ryan-holmes-to-step-down-in-wake-of-leadership-concerns/

HAHAHAHAHA.

This stupid company made a stupid product built on someone else's infrastructure. Typical BC billion dollar company that no one wants. CI would love this.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 05:26

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Femtosecond posted:

Yeah they don't have to care about view cones, though there's no view cones over this site or really any notable view of anything anyway to begin with.

Since the development doesn't have to correspond to any City of Vancouver rules, that also explains why only 10% of the units will have parking, and why it's not a typical "tower and podium" style Vancouver development. No parking minimums and no need to heed any design input from city staff.

YIMBYs on twitter today seem most excited about the low parking rules, though honestly I feel there's a bit of green washing (urbanism-washing?) going on here. What we're really seeing here is an example of what developers would build if they had no rules imposed on them, which is to utterly maximize profits. This means declining to build expensive parking, and opting for bigger, thicker buildings, which increases the amount of units while having negative impacts on light and views.

The area is actually pretty poorly served by public transit, so by building a near zero parking development as if there was a Skytrain next door, this is going to force Translink to suddenly have to significantly invest in new transit services to support the ~12k people that will eventually live on this tiny slice of land. Of course the property taxes from this development will go to the Squamish Nation with no share to Translink so yeah great deal for the Squamish here.

It's totally reasonable that the Squamish Nation should do the things they're doing with this development in order to maximize their revenue, especially given how they were screwed out of their larger Kits reservation lands (seriously we should give those back?) but come on, the Squamish isn't declining to build parking because they like bicycles.

I dunno about the public transit thing. It's literally under the Burrard bridge, so walking distance to downtown. It's also about 7 blocks or so from where the Broadway line will go.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 09:26

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Typical BC billion dollar company

Hmm, yes, story as old as time.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 10:56

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

# ? Nov 6, 2019 17:08

Claes Oldenburger: Apr 23, 2010; Metal magician!

McGavin posted:

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

Art.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 18:00

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

McGavin posted:

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

# ? Nov 6, 2019 18:11

Tsyni: Sep 1, 2004; Lipstick Apathy

McGavin posted:

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

Yes. Yes.

# ? Nov 6, 2019 18:42

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

McGavin posted:

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

lol

# ? Nov 6, 2019 23:55

mashed: Jul 27, 2004

# ? Nov 7, 2019 00:45

Mandibular Fiasco: Oct 14, 2012

McGavin posted:

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

Brilliant. New Thread Title.

# ? Nov 7, 2019 04:30

Guest2553: Aug 3, 2012

McGavin posted:

Tale as old as time
True as it can be
There's no IPO
The CEO must go
Unexpectedly

Just a little change
Small to say the least
Both a little scared
Neither one prepared

Ryan and Hootsuite

# ? Nov 7, 2019 05:00

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

https://twitter.com/Khelsilem/status/1192290491745755136?s=20

lol if the Squamish end up poisoning the well against further reconciliation land deals with the city because they press the city on little demands like "free streetcar!"

edit:
More:

https://twitter.com/Khelsilem/status/1192481938801491968?s=20

Left out, any discussion of the Squamish partnering or contributing in any way to make this happen. Weird.

Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 7, 2019

# ? Nov 7, 2019 17:14

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Mandibular Fiasco posted:

Brilliant. New Thread Title.

Yeah but which part?

# ? Nov 7, 2019 18:57

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Ryan and Hootsuite at Tanagra.

# ? Nov 7, 2019 19:02

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

James Baud posted:

Ryan and Hootsuite at Tanagra.

Hootsuite, when the CEO fell

# ? Nov 7, 2019 19:03

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

Femtosecond posted:

Left out, any discussion of the Squamish partnering or contributing in any way to make this happen. Weird.

Make what happen? Public transit?

# ? Nov 7, 2019 19:24

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Helsing posted:

Yeah but which part?

Not quite as before, unicorn no more, Ryan and Hootsuite

# ? Nov 7, 2019 20:40

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Femtosecond posted:

https://twitter.com/Khelsilem/status/1192290491745755136?s=20

lol if the Squamish end up poisoning the well against further reconciliation land deals with the city because they press the city on little demands like "free streetcar!"

edit:
More:

https://twitter.com/Khelsilem/status/1192481938801491968?s=20

Left out, any discussion of the Squamish partnering or contributing in any way to make this happen. Weird.

Yeah asking First Nations to provide infrastructure on the parts of their occupied territories that they currently have no control over and are extracting no value from (because they are entirely in settler hands) is kinda lovely.

The City of Vancouver declared a climate emergency too. This is a great opportunity for City Council to put its money where its mouth is.

# ? Nov 7, 2019 21:00

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

McGavin posted:

Not quite as before, unicorn no more, Ryan and Hootsuite

Thank you for your service citizen.

# ? Nov 7, 2019 21:22

mashed: Jul 27, 2004

Beautiful

# ? Nov 7, 2019 22:28

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Gorgeous.

# ? Nov 7, 2019 23:11

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Lobok posted:

Make what happen? Public transit?

Yeah. Or to be more precise a LRT line to the site of the project. It's a mega project with unprecedented density in an area with ok but not awesome transit and the project includes little to no parking.

I don't know maybe I'm way off base with this, but it seems like a kinda lovely move to your potential residents that you're hoping to have high quality public transit suddenly appear, but you're not actually gonna lift a finger to make it happen otherwise.

Maybe the Squamish Nation is thinking about these things and would be a big part of lobbying other governments for the money to build a new LRT line and would I dunno, pay to build a station on their lands or contribute in some other way, but from the wording in these tweets alone doesn't seem so.

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Yeah asking First Nations to provide infrastructure on the parts of their occupied territories that they currently have no control over and are extracting no value from (because they are entirely in settler hands) is kinda lovely.

Huhh? The Squamish are gonna make a poo poo ton of money on this project. Adding an LRT stop on their lands would significantly increase the value of their land and the appeal to renters.

If this were a normal developer there would be community amenity contributions and other fees that could contribute to this sort of public transit improvement, but this isn't the case with this Squamish reserve land. So there's a clear need to improve public transit, but no big development fee windfall to help from this 11 tower unit mega project.

In a situation where there's limited funds for public transit, how is the City of Vancouver going to get this LRT built if the North Shore, Port Coquitlam and Surrey are all in line too fighting for their piece of the pie. This sort of situation is where I see the Squamish Nation stepping up and being a bigger partner if they really to get ahead of the line and get an LRT connection. Maybe they should contribute some funds to Translink? I don't know.

In the context of reconciliation I think returning urban lands back to First Nations is clearly good and important as is respecting their rights to develop it, though beyond that, how should we figure out what random, unbounded amount of free stuff (ie. LRT station) urban First Nations get? I'm not really sure how to approach the concept and where to draw the line here.

What makes more sense to me is that cities become really pro-active in looking for opportunities to return land to urban First Nations that those cities sit on*, and First Nations that are developing their urban lands should be looking ways in which it makes sense for them to contribute in some way to improving the city to ensure that the people living on or adjacent to their lands have high quality amenities just like every where else in the city. If they decline to this then I could imagine the possibility of pockets of First Nations development in a city, but which have weird amenity black holes.

* (eg. Vancouver should look into how to return the entire Vanier Park lands that were stolen from the Squamish)

Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 8, 2019

# ? Nov 8, 2019 05:01