China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Crossposting from GBS thread:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...eign-influence/

quote:

China�s new moral guide elevates Xi over Mao, urges national pride over foreign influence

China�s Communist Party has unveiled a new definition of a model citizen � a person no longer ideologically beholden to domestic forefathers such as Mao Zedong or the sway of foreign influence, but possessed instead of a steadfast allegiance to national self-confidence, traditional virtue and, above all, President Xi Jinping.

The guide to the moral construction of citizens, whose standards are likely to be most keenly felt in schools already delivering ideological instruction, bears the hallmarks of a Chinese doctrine document, permeated with modern buzzwords and abstractions, as it seeks to define �Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era.�

But its publication Sunday, on the eve of a plenary session by the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, sends an unmistakable message to its citizens and the world as the country�s leadership grapples with a slowing economy, fractious international relations and unrest in Hong Kong: Beijing has no plans to loosen its grip on the public and private life of its people, and has grown more overt in its rejection of Western models.

�Xi Jinping�s new era requires that its citizens have a moral quality in line with the development of broader society,� said Shen Dingli, a Fudan University professor who is one of China�s top scholars in international relations. �In this new era, the Chinese government sets a higher moral standard for its citizens.�

Chinese citizens, according to the Outline for the Implementation of the Moral Construction of Citizens in the New Era, are expected to be civil, courteous, generous and honest, protect the environment, practise �civilized dining� and follow after Lei Feng, a long-ago Communist Party hero with a questionable official backstory who has been held up as an exemplar of selfless volunteerism. In parts, it offers a simplified version of modern expectations, calling for people to sort their garbage, lower their carbon footprint, do business with integrity and, while travelling, act civilized and self-confident, since �the moral image of citizens is related to the national image.�

Elsewhere, it reads like a religious document, with references to �faith� and �belief� in a Communist Party-led system that has, under Mr. Xi, sought to diminish the role of traditional religions, particularly Islam and Christianity.

�The Communist Party uses �faith� to refer to party doctrine, and as a prerequisite for national rejuvenation,� said William Nee, a Hong Kong-based business and human-rights strategy adviser at Amnesty International. �This may help explain why the Communist Party under Xi Jinping sees independent religious practice as a competitive ideological challenge to its authority that it must either eliminate or fully control.�

It is an expression of confidence, complete with a reference to a �Person of the New Era,� which �seems to be a throw back to something akin to the Soviet New Man concept, in which the authorities felt confident in creating a new form of humanity, rather than merely guiding morality amidst market excesses,� Mr. Nee wrote on Twitter.

Gone, however, is much of the bedrock of modern Chinese thought, with references to past leaders Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin and their theories all stripped away, replaced by Xi and the elements of his thought, along with the �fine traditions of China.�

The new code eliminates, too, deference to the outside world. A previous version published in 2001 recommended taking �lessons from the successful moral construction experiences and the achievements of advanced civilizations of all countries around the world.�

Such openness is absent in the new version, which describes a need to �continuously purify the social and cultural environment� and pledges especially serious treatment for �people who worship foreign things and harm the dignity of the country.�

The document �sends signals as to what Beijing views as politically acceptable models and sources of values for China,� said Carl Minzner, a leading China scholar who is a professor of law at New York-based Fordham Law School.

While China tolerated and even promoted outside ideas during its decades of opening up and reform, that period is drawing to a close, Prof. Minzner said.

The stipulations in the new code are �totally consistent with Beijing�s pivot toward nativism and political tightening over the past decade � a pivot which has steadily engulfed one field of human endeavour after another � law, media, culture and higher education,� he said. �All of this raises deep questions of exactly how much further such trends might run. And that could have serious implications for a range of academic, economic and person-to-person ties binding China with the rest of the world.�

The new code is likely to leave its most sizable imprint on schools, where ideological education and a skepticism of external ideas have already grown more important in recent years.

It is �part of a very much larger political trend that is tied to the China Dream, a resurgent nation that can be free of Western influence,� said Jiang Xueqin, a Beijing-based researcher who studies Chinese schools.

�This is also very much connected to what is happening in Hong Kong. They see too much Western free thought in Hong Kong schools as the root cause, and so correct political indoctrination is becoming the top education priority.�

While the code emphasizes the need for �fair justice� and morally guided public policy, it also calls for a �civic moral construction� effort across all instruments of government, and calls for severe consequences for those who fail to meet the new standard. It says: �Establish a regular mechanism to punish immoral behaviour and form a social atmosphere that nurtures justice, dispels evil, punishes bad and promotes good.�

�China is regressing,� Mr. Jiang said. �And it is all happening very fast.�

But, Prof. Shen at Fudan University said, China remains far from closing itself off, and the world�s second-largest economy now has the self-assurance of a country with something to offer the rest of the world.

�China is always willing and open to learn new things from the outside world,� he said. �It�s just that, at the current stage, the government has placed greater emphasis on our own national confidence, because we have a lot of merits, too. And as China learns from other countries, there is also enough for the world to learn from China.�

# ? Oct 29, 2019 18:27

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# ? May 26, 2024 06:28

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Makes sense, Mao was only 70% good but Xi Jinping is the full package.

# ? Oct 29, 2019 21:30

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Until you get your mug on the money you are nothing.

# ? Oct 29, 2019 21:45

Venomous: Nov 7, 2011

Someone a few pages back described the PRC as a national socialist regime, and considering this growing cult of personality and the Uyghur genocide, I'm willing to believe they're straight up Strasserites, if not worse

history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme, and all that

# ? Oct 29, 2019 23:54

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

National Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is my new catchphrase. I'm trademarking it right now.

# ? Oct 30, 2019 00:42

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

You know, I'd normally describe myself as someone who typically doesn't let news events and such get to me, but the developments in China and particularly the revelations about the Uyghur camps are kind of just making me real sad.

# ? Oct 30, 2019 08:34

The Great Autismo!: Mar 3, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Randarkman posted:

You know, I'd normally describe myself as someone who typically doesn't let news events and such get to me, but the developments in China and particularly the revelations about the Uyghur camps are kind of just making me real sad.

don't worry, one of the greatest, most well-educated and most notable philanthropists of our time, LeBron James, was correct when he tells you that maybe you are just "misinformed" about Hong Kong. maybe you should just do some more research and then you can arrive at the "correct" conclusion!

# ? Oct 30, 2019 08:46

The Great Autismo!: Mar 3, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

bring back noted China scholar and not at all batshit insane mod R. Guyovich

# ? Oct 30, 2019 09:35

Budzilla: Oct 14, 2007; We can all learn from our past mistakes.

The Great Autismo! posted:

bring back noted China scholar and not at all batshit insane mod R. Guyovich

Please don't.

It looks like Mitsubishi has withdrawn sponsorship from Blizzard esports events. Not very surprising.

# ? Oct 30, 2019 11:01

WarpedNaba: Feb 8, 2012; Being social makes me swell!

The Great Autismo! posted:

bring back noted China scholar and not at all batshit insane mod R. Guyovich

Hell, forbidden lesbian can fill in at a pinch.

# ? Oct 30, 2019 11:09

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Hungarian Minister Opens Door to Huawei for 5G Network Rollout

quote:

Hungary has said however it had no evidence that Huawei equipment would pose a security threat and Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto announced at an event in China on Tuesday that Hungary would involve Huawei in the 5G rollout.

Szijjarto said Huawei would cooperate with Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom in the Hungarian build-up according to an emailed Foreign Ministry statement.

Looks like the American attempt to kneecap Huawei is a dismal failure outside of the 5 eyes.

# ? Nov 7, 2019 07:19

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

Wow Viktor Orban associating with an authoritarian fascistic regime and seeking to acquire their tools that's so out of character for Fidesz

# ? Nov 7, 2019 10:29

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Bloodnose posted:

Wow Viktor Orban associating with an authoritarian fascistic regime and seeking to acquire their tools that's so out of character for Fidesz

Are South Korea, Switzerland, and the UK authoritarian fascistic regimes for using Huawei 5G???

# ? Nov 8, 2019 01:45

BrainDance: May 8, 2007; Disco all night long!

If China was, would they be?

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:31

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Kinda weird to claim the Tories don't at minimum want to be an authoritarian fascist regime.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:31

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Are South Korea, Switzerland, and the UK authoritarian fascistic regimes for using Huawei 5G???

you heard it from CLB first: South Korea, Switzerland, and the UK are not and do not desire to be surveillance states :toot:

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:33

Kill All Cops: Apr 11, 2007; Pacheco de Chocobo; Hell Gem

In any case, the UK postponed the Huawei implementation anyways

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:35

i am harry: Oct 14, 2003

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Are South Korea, Switzerland, and the UK authoritarian fascistic regimes for using Huawei 5G???

quote:

Huawei�s overall share in the U.S. telecoms market has so far been negligible, but many rural carriers have long depended on its high-performing, cost-saving hardware. That might soon end as the U.S. pressures small-town network operators to quit buying from Huawei, Reuters reported this week.

To appease potential clients, Huawei has gone around the world offering no-backdoors pacts to local governments of the U.K. and most recently India.

My friend who worked in cyber security pointed out to me 10 years ago that all the chinese hardware would come with a backdoor, and that loads of companies were using their devices to save money. That there are lots of rural phone companies in the US full of chinese backdoors is a nice thought I suppose................

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:44

BrokenGameboy: Jan 25, 2019; by Fluffdaddy

Do you want American flavored backdoors, or Chinese flavored backdoors? What do you mean you don't want any!?

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:46

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

These are the countries that US's cockblock Huawei campaign managed to convince:

Australia
New Zealand
Japan
Taiwan (not a country but I throw it in as a freebie)

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:56

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

BrokenGameboy posted:

Do you want American flavored backdoors, or Chinese flavored backdoors? What do you mean you don't want any!?

Actually US doesn't make any 5G equipment. You have to choose from Huawei, Nokia and Ericsson. All three make their gears in China.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 02:58

BrokenGameboy: Jan 25, 2019; by Fluffdaddy

Yes, but the US has been known to backdoor stuff like Cisco products. But yes, 5g is limited right now.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 03:02

i am harry: Oct 14, 2003

BrokenGameboy posted:

Do you want American flavored backdoors, or Chinese flavored backdoors?

Indeed, that was the ultimate takeaway of that particular discussion.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 03:05

Safety Biscuits: Oct 21, 2010

whatever7 posted:

These are the countries that US's cockblock Huawei campaign managed to convince:

Australia
New Zealand
Japan
Taiwan (not a country but I throw it in as a freebie)

Please, no CCP propaganda.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 13:21

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I threw it in as a freebie because Taiwan's motivation had nothing to do with US's campaign.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 13:32

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

whatever7 posted:

I threw it in as a freebie because Taiwan's motivation had nothing to do with US's campaign.

Taiwan is, in fact, a country. HTH.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 15:20

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

MrNemo posted:

Taiwan is, in fact, a country. HTH.

Taiwan is in fact not a country, and western propagandists treat it like schr�dinger�s China: simultaneously an independent country that doesn�t need the PRC (despite a million taiwan residents living and working there) or the real China in exile from communist usurpation depending on what the geopolitical situation is.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 16:16

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

literally no one i've ever seen on the internet has earnestly treated it as the second thing other than as a historical novelty

# ? Nov 8, 2019 16:19

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

It's about as much of a country as South Ossetia. I will let you decide if South Ossetia is a country.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 16:25

Pirate Radar: Apr 18, 2008; You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

China Megathread - South Ossetia Is Left As An Exercise For The Reader

# ? Nov 8, 2019 16:28

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Tweezer Reprise posted:

literally no one i've ever seen on the internet has earnestly treated it as the second thing other than as a historical novelty

Taiwan is not China, which is why it allows overseas Chinese regardless of place of birth to obtain residency and runs birthright trips for their ethnic Chinese children.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 16:28

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

Taiwan has some ridiculous historical claims to territory to which it has no real right. This doesn't make it that different from a lot of countries that claim territory they are unlikely to get, although their quantity is probably pretty way out there. Taiwan has a historical claim to ethnic Chinese people whose ancestors left China before the PRC was formed and doesn't really differentiate too hard.

That doesn't make it not a country, it is in fact more of a country than Palestine in a de facto and de jure sense. Or are you one of these fun people who say Palestinians are a fictional people and are basically just Jordanians?

# ? Nov 8, 2019 18:54

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Anyone who has an opinion on whether TW is a country, has already made up their mind. So I don't see any point in actually argue over it.

It wasn't my intention to start a sovereignty argument when I mentioned TW, just a knock that I didn't have to include it on the no Huawei list.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 19:21

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

As someone who has lived in Taiwan for several years and who travels there every year: I can confirm that it is, in fact, a country. You can argue over what name to call it, but it's absolutely a country.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 20:17

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

MrNemo posted:

Taiwan has some ridiculous historical claims to territory to which it has no real right. This doesn't make it that different from a lot of countries that claim territory they are unlikely to get, although their quantity is probably pretty way out there. Taiwan has a historical claim to ethnic Chinese people whose ancestors left China before the PRC was formed and doesn't really differentiate too hard.

That doesn't make it not a country, it is in fact more of a country than Palestine in a de facto and de jure sense. Or are you one of these fun people who say Palestinians are a fictional people and are basically just Jordanians?

Taiwan is a �country� the same way the �Republic of Vietnam� was a country. If your de facto state�s existence is entirely contingent on larger parties like America using you as a proxy then you lack the legitimacy to call yourself a country.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 20:56

Mischievous Mink: May 29, 2012

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Taiwan is a �country� the same way the �Republic of Vietnam� was a country. If your de facto state�s existence is entirely contingent on larger parties like America using you as a proxy then you lack the legitimacy to call yourself a country.

Israel isn't a country?

# ? Nov 8, 2019 21:02

WarpedNaba: Feb 8, 2012; Being social makes me swell!

Wouldn't surprise me if he actually thought that.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 21:59

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Taiwan is a �country� the same way the �Republic of Vietnam� was a country. If your de facto state�s existence is entirely contingent on larger parties like America using you as a proxy then you lack the legitimacy to call yourself a country.

I guess Canada isn't a country either then.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 22:09

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Mischievous Mink posted:

Israel isn't a country?

Israel has a huge army and nuclear weapons. If the US cut Israel off it can hold off its Arab neighbors again in a conventional war.

Meanwhile, the RoC armed forces is a paper tiger, if the US doesn�t intervene in a timely manner they are finished, millions of reservists waiting in the mountains or not.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 22:20

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# ? May 26, 2024 06:28

Mr Luxury Yacht: Apr 16, 2012

CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:

Israel has a huge army and nuclear weapons. If the US cut Israel off it can hold off its Arab neighbors again in a conventional war.

Meanwhile, the RoC armed forces is a paper tiger, if the US doesn’t intervene in a timely manner they are finished, millions of reservists waiting in the mountains or not.

Someone should tell most of continental Europe they aren't real countries then.

# ? Nov 8, 2019 22:25

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