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As someone that has never liked Kanye, his music, or his celebrity, I am feeling pretty good about my choices right about now. https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1192963497417748481 Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 01:53
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Helsing posted:What the gently caress is this poo poo? His life and his families life have been repeatedly threatened by actual fascists because of the political stances he has taken. Somebody writing from behind the comfort of their keyboard or phone about how he "had to learn through personal experience", as though this was the first time he has ever faced consequences for his beliefs, is genuinely revolting. I'm old enough to remember Glenn Greenwald cheerleading the invasion of Iraq, Like too many "leftists" he learned the wrong lessons from the experience. There were a lot of us who were against that mess long before it began (The first thing I told my friend while watching the towers fall was that Bush would use it as an excuse to invade Iraq) and he wasn't one of them. Then he comes and wants to not just lecture us about the horrors of Imperialism while carrying the water for Trump and Putin? I don't wish any harm to the man but there is definitely some schadenfreude to be had here. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2019 02:00
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I'd like to see a comprehensive study done that clearly demonstrates the actual net income savings or losses for an average person under a M4A system. Like, I've seen the CBO estimates but what does this mean for your average person's budget? Let's face it, all most people tend to see is "paycheck went up" or "paycheck went down" but I'd gladly take a $2000 annual reduction in pay if it meant I had no deductible, my son's ER visits and epilepsy meds were covered, and my depression meds and therapy were paid for. Or if didn't have to weigh cost as a factor before deciding whether to get those heart palpitations or that bump on my balls checked out. I follow the democratic candidates and I'm still not sure exactly how much "MAH TAXES" going up tangibly effects my bottom line. The people in my income bracket who received a "tax cut" under Trump never factored in their decreased refunds and only saw "MAH check is BIGGER this week". That's stupid and short sighted but, in terms of optics, it absolutely matters and I'd like to see more done to address this perception at least within the Democratic platform. If they can come out and definitively state that, on average, the typical American household will see little or no change (or even an overall savings) in their annual costs, they need to bust out some charts and graphs if they're going to run on it. I suspect most people would come out ahead overall (or even) but a lot of them, who didn't routinely need to see a doctor, hadn't had a kid or who didn't need to visit a hospital at all would see a net decrease in their income. This is a tough sell politically because no one assumes they're going to have a burst appendix or need a triple bypass anytime soon so, in their eyes, they're simply making less money. I'd be interested to see what your average person making, say, $40,000 would net after you eliminated premiums, deductibles, co-pays, prescription costs and what have you once healthcare costs were universal. A person like that who does their taxes the first year under a Sanders or Warren administration and sees they made only $38,000 that year is gonna pitch a fit about socialism. Again, it's kind of dumb thinking since, if nothing else, they're making slightly less a year in order to guarantee that they'll never, EVER, go bankrupt from medical bills but most assholes won't look at it that way and will just see it as them paying for other people being sick and for a service they never use. Seems to me also that democrats could play up how much this will help the VA and care for "R TROOPS" in a more meaningful way. I also suspect it will help address the issue of homeless. poo poo, you could even frame it as encouraging innovation and the entrepreneurial spirit since, let's face it, how many people put off starting their own businesses simply because they need employer based health care? I know I did and know many others who couldn't afford the risk. Tell those people, "yes, that's a possibility you will earn slightly less money this year. But if you have a child or suffer a serious illness, you don't have to pay for it the rest of your life." Message this poo poo in ways that effect the day to day lives of everyone and not just for the sick. It's simple and best of all it's true so you don't have to spin it. Ask them why it is that hospitals and drug companies feel compelled to ADVERTISE and point out what a waste of money that is. That's always baffled me. "Ask your doctor". Bitch, my doctor should be telling ME. Why do these commercials have paragraphs of 4 point type fine print? Why is their a loving billboard for my area hospital? If I get in a car crash and need air lifting, I'm not about to invoke brand loyalty while I'm bleeding out. Also, I don't entirely understand why a platform like Warren's needs to totally eliminate private insurance. You're talking about a systematic overhaul and a complete eradication of like 20% of the economy, with millions of workers that need to be moved, which will be rocky and people are gonna freak out. What's wrong with a private insurer offering Super Gold Diamond Platinum healthcare coverage on top of M4A for people who want to feel superior and carry around a fancy card that covers boob jobs or penis implants and poo poo? Seems to me you could still have that business even with everyone enrolled in a public system. Lastly, my libertarian former brother in law raised a good point once and asked me where all the doctors were going to come from once we have a massive of increase in people seeking healthcare and treatment that used to just tough it out or seek over the counter remedies because they simply couldn't afford it and my only answer was to invest the savings into education to create more doctors. But I honestly wasn't sure if I was talking out of my rear end because this poo poo is complicated and seemed like a legit practical question.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:14
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Skex posted:I'm old enough to remember Glenn Greenwald cheerleading the invasion of Iraq, Like too many "leftists" he learned the wrong lessons from the experience. There were a lot of us who were against that mess long before it began (The first thing I told my friend while watching the towers fall was that Bush would use it as an excuse to invade Iraq) and he wasn't one of them. Then he comes and wants to not just lecture us about the horrors of Imperialism while carrying the water for Trump and Putin? I don't wish any harm to the man but there is definitely some schadenfreude to be had here. You're not old enough to remember Greenwald cheerleading the invasion of Iraq because when the Iraq war happened Greenwald wasn't a writer or public figure. The only thing to ever come out about him and the Iraq war was that in 2006 he wrote in a preface of a book that he had given the Bush administration the benefit of the doubt. He also has never supported Trump or Putin. Of course, Brazil is the mess that it is because the Obama administration was worried that the pink wave in Latin America was creating a different sphere of influence, so they did everything in their power to support the impeachment of Dilma and the arrest of Lula, with Kenneth Blanco openly bragging about the DoJ helping put him behind bars. This in turn has unleashed the violent right wing agitation that has taken over Brazil, and includes the murder of a close friend of Greenwald's. But somehow, in your mind, the lesson that he should have learned was to shut up, embrace the spooks that MSNBC hires, and go full time Russiagate hysteria. From the coup in Honduras, to the judicial coups in Paraguay and Brazil, the American government under Obama was intimately involved in unleashing fascist governments throughout Latin America. But somehow, to dishonest hacks like you who "remember" things that never happened, the real lesson is to shut up, pretend American imperialism isn't real, and go full Russian hysteria even after that has been widely discredited.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:17
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BiggerBoat posted:I'd like to see a comprehensive study done that clearly demonstrates the actual net income savings or losses for an average person under a M4A system. Like, I've seen the CBO estimates but what does this mean for your average person's budget? The real answer is that the existing private market is so loving massive and nebulous it isn't really possible to very accurately simulate the net results of any huge sweeping policy in any sense since it would be built in with 10000 assumptions. The short term shocks would probably be lovely and may even dismantle the process of transitioning, but looking at other countries with successful systems it's clear that public healthcare is A Good Thing.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:19
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Fart Amplifier posted:https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1192830555068542976 It was me all along Jim Acosta! But seriously this guy clearly does just start talking and then just adds random "Trumpy" sounding poo poo literally as he thinks of it. He didn't even have a loving clue what he was going to say after the first few seconds and it's too obvious.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:19
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joepinetree posted:You're not old enough to remember Greenwald cheerleading the invasion of Iraq because when the Iraq war happened Greenwald wasn't a writer or public figure. The only thing to ever come out about him and the Iraq war was that in 2006 he wrote in a preface of a book that he had given the Bush administration the benefit of the doubt. He also has never supported Trump or Putin. Its 2019 and people are still defending Glenn Greenwald. Wow.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:20
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Skex posted:I'm old enough to remember Glenn Greenwald cheerleading the invasion of Iraq, Like too many "leftists" he learned the wrong lessons from the experience. There were a lot of us who were against that mess long before it began (The first thing I told my friend while watching the towers fall was that Bush would use it as an excuse to invade Iraq) and he wasn't one of them. Then he comes and wants to not just lecture us about the horrors of Imperialism while carrying the water for Trump and Putin? I don't wish any harm to the man but there is definitely some schadenfreude to be had here. I don't want Greenwald to be attacked. And in Brazil, he really is a target for demonization as a gay, American man, husband of the only gay member of the Brazilian congress. I listened to Chapo and thought that what he was doing along with what his husband was doing was very brave and heroic. What I want is for Greenwald to learn something from this. His idea about what fascism means is very NIMBY in its nature. He seems to think that fascism is something he's dealing with nationally in Brazil rather than globally. He wants to play the role of some enlightened journalist who pretends to be above it all as some voice of truth when in actuality, fascists pretty much anywhere will leave his rear end a blood smear against the wall or march his rear end into the gas chamber. When he carries water for Fox News for instance or some other conservative rag, that has downstream effects that endanger him him, his husband, his family, gay people everywhere and liberal democracies in general. Brazil's politics right now are basically the result of a fascist coup that came from the courts, specifically the Brazilian supreme court whose chief justice targeted left leaning politicians for corruption in order to clear the field for fascists. He himself was caught seeking high office after the political hatchet job he did on Lula, the previous president. Just a few hours ago after a 580 days into his 12 year sentence, he was freed. And that's a good day indeed for Brazil. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/08/lula-brazil-released-prison-supreme-court-ruling I think Brazil might have a chance now and I don't have to merely content myself with the fact that the fascist Bolsonaro has to poo poo in a bag after being stabbed in the stomach by a protester. I'm just sad that he didn't die, and it's rare that I wish death on people, but Bolsonaro is perhaps one of the biggest poo poo stains on the planet earth. Bigger than Trump in some respects. The skies of Sao Paolo as well as the skies of much of the country turned black for several days because of all of the burning of the rain forest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7COz7FIsXI Middle of the day and you can't see the sun from all of the smoke in the air. It's reminiscent of something like a biblical plague. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 02:20
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pkay posted:Its 2019 and people are still defending Glenn Greenwald. Wow. His reporting is just about the main reason that Lula, the person responsible for lifting the largest number of Brazilians out of poverty in history, is out of jail tonight. But I guess that is small potatoes for people who think that the lives of anyone who isn't American is worthless. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2019 02:22
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joepinetree posted:His reporting is just about the main reason that Lula, the person responsible for lifting the largest number of Brazilians out of poverty in history, is out of jail tonight. But I guess that is small potatoes for people who think that the lives of anyone who isn't American is worthless. Oh yeah, brave as hell. No doubt. And it's a huge win. But when Greenwald comes to the US, he carries water for fascists. The problem is that his thinking about fascism is provincial in scope, not global. He's either got a serious blind spot in politics or he's doing serious mental gymnastics to square his ideals about what fascism is and what it isn't. Possibly both.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:24
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Guys please stop posting 'lol it's cool that Greenwald got punched by a fascist' and also 'if you don't love Greenwald you are a fascist in disguise' thanks.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:27
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i know its because they are opertunistic/true believer nuts, but why are they going down with the ship for this rear end in a top hat. Because a lot of them are dirty, implicated and in on it as well and don't want that microscope reaching them. There's also the people who may or may not know better but have to deal with their idiotic tea party constituents who wholeheartedly believe everything Rush Limbaugh has been telling them for 20 years and will primary them out if they don't conservative hard enough. Some are true believers, some are complicit, some are in on it and guilty as well, some are just grasping at what remains of their power and some are too old to change or realize that everything they stood for was wrong the whole entire time. Some are beholden to the stupid power of evangelicals and the money they provide. Some are just mean, spiteful assholes who get off on being cruel.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:28
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fool_of_sound posted:Guys please stop posting 'lol it's cool that Greenwald got punched by a fascist' and also 'if you don't love Greenwald you are a fascist in disguise' thanks. Is it cool if I hope he takes it as a learning experience not to enable fascists outside of Brazil? Legit question. He's a person who seems to suck or not primarily based on his geographic location and nothing else.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:29
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Ice Phisherman posted:Is it cool if I hope he takes it as a learning experience not to enable fascists outside of Brazil? cant wait for him to come on to Tucker Carlson with this revelation
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Nov 9, 2019 02:30
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Ice Phisherman posted:Is it cool if I hope he takes it as a learning experience not to enable fascists outside of Brazil? I don't think getting punched by a Bolsonaro supporter has much to do with his behavior in the US media, but as long as you aren't celebrating it or saying it serves him right it's fine. Similarly people can defend Greenwald as long as you they don't feel the need to make obnoxious personal attacks.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:31
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OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:cant wait for him to come on to Tucker Carlson with this revelation it's wild how people, even on the 'left' aren't mad at the US media for functionally blacklisting him and leaving pretty much only Fox, but rather mad at him for taking his chance where he can. Like, it's genuinely a little amazing how granted people are willing to take 'well yea of course MSNBC and CNN and all don't want him on because he did journalism too good and made them mad'.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:35
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turns out when the only thing you want to talk about related to US politics is how RussiaGate is fake and the Deep State is trying to steal the presidency from trump... no one but tucker really wants you on
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Nov 9, 2019 02:41
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fool_of_sound posted:I don't think getting punched by a Bolsonaro supporter has much to do with his behavior in the US media, but as long as you aren't celebrating it or saying it serves him right it's fine. Similarly people can defend Greenwald as long as you they don't feel the need to make obnoxious personal attacks. My hope is that the shake-up makes him reevaluate his behavior while outside of Brazil. His behavior inside of Brazil is top notch. Outside of it, like OJ Mist said, he ends up noted on white nationalist pedo creep Tucker Carlson's show with alarming frequency.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:42
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Pay the dog taxes you have now, or we'll need to implement a dog wealth tax https://twitter.com/elatticus/status/1192947752432525312
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Nov 9, 2019 02:49
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MrSargent posted:Ok, I gotta know what music you listen to that would lead you to such a terribly wrong conclusion. I knew that was coming and no way I'm taking that bait or starting a music derail about "what's good". I'll state that my favorite musician of all time is Prince if you want an idea of what I think constitutes a "musician", a master of their craft or a "great" artist. But I will stand by scoffing at "Kanye West is one of the most brilliant musicians of the last 3 decades". I don't hate the guy's stuff or care about him much one way or the other. I don't even dislike rap or hip hop. I think this MAGA thing, along with the "George Bush doesn't care about black people" and even the Kardashian marriage is all just centered around fame, money and publicity - the American Way if you will. In that way, he's important but for the way I think of music that doesn't make him good. It's a subjective argument that the thread doesn't really need so beyond what I wrote I'm gonna pass and spare us my top ten lists.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:50
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https://twitter.com/AwwwwCats/status/1192590787625783296?s=19
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Nov 9, 2019 02:51
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BiggerBoat posted:
I think this question is a really disengenuous one (shocking from a libertarian I know) because it implies that there aren't enough doctors already, and that there are just people who don't deserve healthcare because of it. Neither are true. With people receiving care before it becomes an emergency, or other preventive measures, there should be less of an overall need, assuming that non emergency care is less intensive.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:56
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BiggerBoat posted:I'd like to see a comprehensive study done that clearly demonstrates the actual net income savings or losses for an average person under a M4A system. Like, I've seen the CBO estimates but what does this mean for your average person's budget? The original "why universal health Care is the best" thread we had around here like ten years ago had answers to both those questions I think. That said I think Warren and Sanders' plans both answer your first question. The practical answer to the second is that it's a question about how we ration care. Right now we ration it by who has the most money. We need to ration it by who has the most need instead. A lot of cosmetic surgeons and dermatologists and the like will shift specialties.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:02
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This is crazy, I've never known cats to have that kind of intelligence.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:09
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In terms of where UHC will get us in costs? Lower, and we know that because we can look at any number of systems in developed nations and see that. If you're asking how much it costs in the transitional period? That's extremely hard to say, and doesn't really matter because: 1) The US can afford it, easily 2) It has to be done The key is to not to structure it so it hits poor/middle class people anywhere near like what the current system does.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:15
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Wilhelm posted:The real answer is that the existing private market is so loving massive and nebulous it isn't really possible to very accurately simulate the net results of any huge sweeping policy in any sense since it would be built in with 10000 assumptions. The short term shocks would probably be lovely and may even dismantle the process of transitioning, but looking at other countries with successful systems it's clear that public healthcare is A Good Thing. Oh, no doubt, and I'm sure that overall and long term it's the only way to do it. It seems inevitable to be honest and I'm all for it but framing it an honest and realistic way I think is a smart thing for democrats to try and do. I was just looking at it through the lens of the average, middle income types that I work with who are too busy to get involved that deeply with politics and often, sadly, are too uneducated to discern what M4A and single payer really means or bother to think about it. A lot of them are young, don't have kids and are in decent health but they make maybe $15/hour so a public system that bites into that will effect them and certainly make them take notice. Others are older than me, close to the same age or children of Boomers who are used to the old system and grew being taught that you work hard for a company, get yer' benefits and retire. If those benefits dry up or their pay doesn't keep up with the COL,, they think that they, or others, aren't workin' hard enough and the company aint makin' no money cause' these folks is lazy or, worse, that the poors who don't or can't work are taking all the money. Some (or even most) just desperately need a job and want to keep their head down without rocking the boat and are grateful for what they have, which for now is just barely good enough. Others still, the salespeople and managers, are making a decent salary, have OK insurance and don't feel the immediate crunch of medical expenses or even time off so, almost to a man, mainly only care about their taxes and 401ks. Most all of them though seem to have have an intrinsic fear of "The Government" getting involved in anything beyond wars, mass incarceration, executing prisoners or standing for the flag and, no matter what they earn, seem to buy into this weird nebulous concept of "the government" loving everything up everything it touches instead and blaming it for their problems instead of the greedy shitheads standing on top of Capitalism Mountain that own the entire Monopoly board and who treat healthcare like just another used car or happy meal to be sold. Communicating what actual real UHC means to most people and what it costs someone who is in a spot where 2 or 3 grand one way or the other has real genuine consequences is a thing I think that democrats running on it should get ahead of and start to frame in an honest way. Because, like I said, once Gene the printing press operator sees his paycheck go down and his old healthcare taken away under a UHC plan that's ALL he's going to see.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:16
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Ither posted:But what does Schiff's maneuver actually do? Will anything happen to Mulvaney? This is the only reply from her I could find in the chain that seems (to me) to answer you. https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1192937612757131265
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Nov 9, 2019 03:23
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empty whippet box posted:This is crazy, I've never known cats to have that kind of intelligence. Cat "pounces" on rare opportunity to attack baby normally confined to crib
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Nov 9, 2019 03:24
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empty whippet box posted:This is crazy, I've never known cats to have that kind of intelligence. Cats are actually super protective of others in their colony, including humans. There's also that clip in that thread of the dog who attacked the child and the cat flying kicks the dog and chases him off.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Right now we ration it by who has the most money. We need to ration it by who has the most need instead. Uh oh. Where have I heard a slogan that sounds eerily similar to this that conservatives just LOVE to hold up as the embodiment of pure evil and that represents everything True Americans hate? *stands for the pledge and says "Under God"* *Prints "IN GOD WE TRUST" on some money* Joking aside, you're not wrong at all but I think that practical informative messaging is important. Maybe we need some graphs and charts and poo poo. Is the healthcare thread you mentioned archived?
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Nov 9, 2019 03:27
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empty whippet box posted:This is crazy, I've never known cats to have that kind of intelligence. 
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Nov 9, 2019 03:28
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cat shows more care for a human child than Donnie ever has.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:35
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Jaxyon posted:In terms of where UHC will get us in costs? Lower, and we know that because we can look at any number of systems in developed nations and see that. I get all that. What I'm looking for is a practical savings analysis that can be presented to an average person as "yes your taxes may go up slightly BUT..." in a way that makes sense to people too dumb to realize that they'll no longer have to worry about a catastrophic medical bill rendering them bankrupt when their main concern is making monthly payments on their Ford Explorer and ANYTHING that eats into their paycheck will be seen as an "expense" and a net negative. It's wrong but that's how wage earners view things. MOST PEOPLE only look at THAT number, especially those living check to check . Unfortunately, that's not only a dumb way to think but also a stark reality for a majority of Americans right now who absolutely WILL blame democrats when not only did they not get a raise this year, but they're demonstrably earning less. Assuming that's even the case which is what I'm asking.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:37
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empty whippet box posted:This is crazy, I've never known cats to have that kind of
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Nov 9, 2019 03:41
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PhazonLink posted:cat shows more care for a human child than Donnie ever has. Lets be fair here. I am sure Donnie cared deeply for himself when he was a child.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:44
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Tell them their taxes may go up but they won’t need to pay any insurance premiums and that they will be fully covered for everything if they get sick. No need to wrangle with insurance companies, just go to the doctor and get treated.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:49
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Cat/Baby 2020
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Nov 9, 2019 03:50
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Helith posted:Tell them their taxes may go up but they won’t need to pay any insurance premiums and that they will be fully covered for everything if they get sick. Sick people should not pay higher taxes then healthy people. The current system is immoral at best. Its practically designed to kill people.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:54
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PhazonLink posted:cat shows more care for a human child than Donnie ever has.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:54
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Helith posted:Tell them their taxes may go up Oops you just lost their vote.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:55
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