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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:But the actual point is that shields are useless against FREMEN, my dude. When Paul fights Jamis, a point is made about his knife fighting being unable to strike home because he habitually slows down his attacks at the last second to penetrate a shield. Without shields on Arrakis, 5he Fremen wouldn't have developed a style that would account for penetrating shields, so they probably would not fare well at first using knives against shields. That's what maula pistols are for. (Or is it that they're quiet, or easily and cheaply made in sketches? I can't remember if the spring-firing is derived from shooting shielded targets. Again, not a huge consideration on Arrakis.) Shield or no shield, the Fremen are going to figure it out quickly and just disarm you and then garrote you anyway. Might let the kids do it for I remember Jamis. He taught me to shitpost in the Dune thread.
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Nov 9, 2019 09:13
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Phi230 posted:The King pretty much confirmed Chalamet can pull off atreides. I feel like he was already playing Paul, except more cruel and foul tempered Yep these were my thoughts too when I watched it. Good movie imo.
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Nov 9, 2019 09:51
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Shields are a weird nexus of multiple plot threads. They stop guns AND attract worms AND blow up w/lasers AND can be beaten with knives... And then, why is knife fighting so common? No one was running around medieval battlefields with miscellaneous knives. If anything the Sardaukar should present massed pike formations with a few sword-and-buckler dudes in the front.
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Nov 9, 2019 10:10
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In the Hark/sardukar vs atreides fight which the fremen crash, mention is made of flamethrowers artillery (admittedly a gimmick) and close air support which would make formations useless. squads were sent to deal with fortified positions. But the real reason is that army vs army fights just didn't happen. Inter-house warfare was conducted as a "War of Assassins" with Hunter seekers, poison and traitors. This was enforced by the Great Convention and ultimately the threat of the Emperor sending Sardukar down to end the fight. In a feudal society the powerful ensure that war is conducted in a formalised way that ensures the ruling class maintains supremacy
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Nov 9, 2019 10:55
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I imagine almost all Great House armies basically just drilled and looked impressive most of the time and perhaps periodically crushed some pyons. Maybe you had a couple ace squads you can use to gently caress with other people. Most planets were presumably basically islands.
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Nov 9, 2019 11:18
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Wasn't it a really big deal whenever someone pulled out the lasguns? I imagine those things are locked up super strictly.
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Nov 9, 2019 11:37
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:But the actual point is that shields are useless against FREMEN, my dude. Shields weren't useless against Fremen. They attracted worms so Fremen didn't use them. Tree Bucket posted:Shields are a weird nexus of multiple plot threads. They stop guns AND attract worms AND blow up w/lasers AND can be beaten with knives... Not to mention the Holtzmann generators that create shields also fold space.
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Nov 9, 2019 11:38
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So I just re-read the section where hawat is losing the fight and gets captured and he is shocked by the fact that there were 8-10 legions of harks and Sardukar and also that a legion comprises 10 brigades. A modern brigade is 1500-4000 men so we are talking 120k-400k men being an unimaginably large force. The guild charges through the nose for shipping troops (again, a ruling class protecting it's interests). I would guess that troop numbers tend towards the lower value.
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Nov 9, 2019 12:32
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exmachina posted:The guild charges through the nose for shipping troops (again, a ruling class protecting it's interests). I would guess that troop numbers tend towards the lower value. 1/2 price shipping if you ally with them during wormsign hth
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Nov 9, 2019 12:35
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:1/2 price shipping if you ally with them during wormsign hth 
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Nov 9, 2019 12:59
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exmachina posted:So I just re-read the section where hawat is losing the fight and gets captured and he is shocked by the fact that there were 8-10 legions of harks and Sardukar and also that a legion comprises 10 brigades. A modern brigade is 1500-4000 men so we are talking 120k-400k men being an unimaginably large force. The guild charges through the nose for shipping troops (again, a ruling class protecting it's interests). I would guess that troop numbers tend towards the lower value. Keep in mind that for a planetary power you want quality over quantity because ship space is expensive.
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Nov 9, 2019 13:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Keep in mind that for a planetary power you want quality over quantity because ship space is expensive. Yeah I actually want to suggest an even lower number because at brigade strength not every man will fight on the front lines. Just 100k in the harkonnen/imperial alliance is totally plausible especially as Sardukar are an elite fighting force. And this is in a universe with planetary populations and a feudal economy, meaning division of labor is probably really low with the taboo against automation. Hawat was expecting a few H legions to be pitted against them and this was going to be a tough fight that would require alliance with the Fremen to win. The H had a beachhead in Carthage, so a fight against them could last a while. The point is that army-on-army fights in the Duniverse are incredibly rare, focused on gaining fortified positions and forcing surrender by the enemy, and avoiding a situation where the Landraad, Emperor or the Guild start getting nervous and move to limit the damage. Leto states that the biggest fear of Houses Major is that they are picked off one by one. They are not going to stand and watch a fellow Noble house get ground into dust. The Baron knew he had to basically win the fight in one day, and he used an acceptable form of warfare (traitor) to accomplish it. It is the Emperor who wants to wipe the A out because Hawat, Idaho and Halleck were polishing a threat to the Sardukar.
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Nov 9, 2019 14:15
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Seen somewhere that a company called Funcom got rights to make games related to the upcoming movie and when I looked at what games they've already made whooo boy get ready for a/some lovely games of this stuff.
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Nov 9, 2019 15:17
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Probably gonna be another phone game.
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Nov 9, 2019 15:24
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Probably gonna be another phone game. They're known for lovely MMOs too. Anarchy online, age of Conan, etc.
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Nov 9, 2019 15:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Probably gonna be another phone game. Spice miner mobile edition. Click the sand to mine spice but watch out for worms! Upgrade to a heavy carryall for only 9.99!
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Nov 9, 2019 15:36
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Re: shield-lasgun interactions, wasn't there a line in one of the books about the aftermath of a shield explosion looking very much like an atomic explosion, which would make it appear as a violation of the great convention, and cause to have your house be wiped out? That'd be another reason to avoid it.
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Nov 9, 2019 16:31
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Afriscipio posted:Re: shield-lasgun interactions, wasn't there a line in one of the books about the aftermath of a shield explosion looking very much like an atomic explosion, which would make it appear as a violation of the great convention, and cause to have your house be wiped out? That'd be another reason to avoid it. Yeah if you're a great house. If you're a suicidal Fremen warrior who's captured a lasgun from a Sardaukar and are itching to use it you probably don't care.
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Nov 9, 2019 16:34
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Honky Dong Country posted:They're known for lovely MMOs too. Anarchy online, age of Conan, etc.
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Nov 9, 2019 16:59
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Dune Exiles now with sandworm slider
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Nov 9, 2019 21:52
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Kinda worried tbh with no Feyd Rautha casting
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Nov 9, 2019 21:53
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Feyd doesn't really need to be in the first film. It's probably 2% better if he's introduced in person as a character, but his role in the first half of the book (and this first film) is basically nil. The only important thing he's part of is the Baron's explanation of the Arrakis plot. But it makes way more sense for the Baron to be explaining things to Rabban, since he's the one that's just been kicked off Arrakis, and the one that'll be going back alongside the Baron. If they make that change then Feyd would just be there to... also absorb exposition? You could get some good character set up in for sure, ("Feyd you're old enough now to hear this, but not yet ready to take part in the action," Feyd's objections to this, etc), but they had to weigh that against the possibility of the second film not happening and it looking like a weird dead end, a side character introduced for no purpose. The second film seems much more likely to happen than it did a year ago (the guy who stopped writing for the TV show switched to writing for the second film), and I still think one of the strongest possible openings for part 2 is Feyd's arena fight. That'll be our real introduction to him as a character, whether he shows up for a minute in the first film or not. It would be better to set him up from the start, and complicate the Harkonnen dynamic, but it's not really that important for the first film.
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Nov 9, 2019 22:40
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Spice Tycoon Worms: Jihad!
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Nov 9, 2019 23:14
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SimSareer
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Nov 9, 2019 23:42
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So when I was most of the way through the first dune book I bought books 2, 3 & 4. Dune was very good. The second one kind of sucks. It has some good sections - the chapter with the stone burner and dwarf were fun and exciting. And then there's a ton of very boring politics where people just look around them and think a lot. Is this it for the dune series now? Im really going to have to force myself to finish this and I hope the third is worth it.
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Nov 10, 2019 04:28
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God Emperor of Dune is my favorite book I've ever read. I like it better than Dune. All the others beside those two are OK imo.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:11
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Spice miner mobile edition. Click the sand to mine spice but watch out for worms! Upgrade to a heavy carryall for only 9.99! They call the free version "old maria." I think the Harkonens made it as a punishment.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:31
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cubicle gangster posted:So when I was most of the way through the first dune book I bought books 2, 3 & 4. 2 is partly a really strident restatement of the point of the first book (that Paul is a bad dude) that people at the time missed, and partly a setup for 3. 3 is an incredibly weird book about psychic kids couping the universe. Lot more politicking and plans within plans within plans 4 takes place thousands of years later and is even weirder in a completely different way. Kind of has to be read to be believed 5 takes place still thousands of years later and is a fairly awesome war-adventure type story more like the first book than the others, but way more gonzo and full of bizarre stuff like living chairs, cannibal cat people, hypnobongs and pussy magic 6 is boring and ends on an awful cliffhanger that was never picked up.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:31
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My first time through Messiah it felt like a weird tacked on letdown. I liked Children considerably better (on the surface it has a lot more in common with the original, and feels like a more typical sequel), but then God Emperor is such an insane curveball that it forces you to stop seeing the Dune novels as a typical series. On rereads it becomes clear that each installment is doing something pretty wildly different from the one before, usually by jumping far enough in to the future that the seemingly neat resolution of the previous book has unraveled in to its component absurdities and contradictions, and then starting there. So each book works as a counterpoint / refutation / deconstruction of the previous. The effect can be pretty uneven, but the series as a whole definitely lives up to the ambition of the original novel in a way that basically no other "big idea" scifi does. So I'd say keep going, at least through 4.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:52
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So if the worms are sensitive to vibration wouldn't nukes make them go loving nuts? Is that ever covered in the books? Because setting off a nuke just to call a bunch of really mad worms down on your enemies would be the kind of plans within plans I could get behind I mean riding the worms makes that unnecessary but it would be pretty hilarious
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Nov 10, 2019 07:10
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Eumenides posted:So if the worms are sensitive to vibration wouldn't nukes make them go loving nuts? Is that ever covered in the books? Because setting off a nuke just to call a bunch of really mad worms down on your enemies would be the kind of plans within plans I could get behind no point when shields are more common and do the same thing
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Nov 10, 2019 08:10
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Could you nuke a worm? Would you accomplish anything? I mean you'd probably hurt it but it seems like you might not even kill it.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:28
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Nessus posted:Could you nuke a worm? If a Stoneburner can burn down to the core of a planet, I'd guess it can probably kill a worm with one.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:55
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There are passages where Leto wonders what it would take to kill him, I think he mentions atomics, water, and fall damage
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Nov 10, 2019 18:49
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Enkmar posted:There are passages where Leto wonders what it would take to kill him, I think he mentions atomics, water, and fall damage Leto II confirmed for a goon
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Nov 10, 2019 18:56
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Phi230 posted:Kinda worried tbh with no Feyd Rautha casting No kidding, what’s up with that? Pretty iconic character to try to cut or introduce in pt 2 with no setup.
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Nov 10, 2019 19:04
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Paddyo posted:No kidding, what’s up with that? Pretty iconic character to try to cut or introduce in pt 2 with no setup. Obviously they're going to bring back Sting as a totally awesome surprise.
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Nov 10, 2019 20:39
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magic cactus posted:Obviously they're going to bring back Sting as a totally awesome surprise. Feyd is gonna be played by someone wearing a Sting mask in part 2 he's going to pull the mask off and reveal that he was actually Sting
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Nov 10, 2019 21:26
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Eumenides posted:So if the worms are sensitive to vibration wouldn't nukes make them go loving nuts? Is that ever covered in the books? Because setting off a nuke just to call a bunch of really mad worms down on your enemies would be the kind of plans within plans I could get behind I don't think it's just capital V Vibration, but rather rhythmic resonance, like if a bunch of people jump up and down on a suspension bridge at the same time it goes all cattywampus. A worm is less likely to go after vibrations that have no discernible pattern, like those of nature, but if dudes be goosestepping in single file a worm's gonna be running up in that club. So the dunewalking that Fremen do is less 'don't make ANY vibrations' and more a bunch of people walking out of sync with each other so the vibration can dissipate rather than amplify. And yes, every worm on Arrakis would show up to a nuke-party.
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Nov 11, 2019 00:17
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priznat posted:Leto II confirmed for a goon Given that mechanical minds are verboten, he is by default protected.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:19
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