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Countblanc posted:that's fair, they just shouldn't bring it back at all rather than making people pay, and instead make each game have a unique collection of ~450 pokemon I might not have many long standing pokemon, but certainly there are many players that have their personal favourite pokemon that they have transferred over and over, collected badges, diplomas and ribbons with, and would definitely dislike not being able to bring them in new adventures. galagazombie posted:I've never understood this philosophy. If it were true why make consoles at all? If it were true who are all these people buying your consoles? I buy consoles specifically because I want more than what a phone game can give me. I buy a console because I like the games on it, because I think it is a good value and certainly plays better than a phone. The console maker develops and sells consoles to make profits.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:27
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Flopsy posted:If this was how games started I wouldn't care. Seeing as this entire franchise was built on carrying over your collection I'm gonna guess you can see where people like myself would not like this in the least. It also reinforces my point why make the effort for these supposedly unique pokemon? sure, but i've been seeing people saying that for a while and while it's still true i figured i'd offer my own stance that the game would be more interesting for me personally if there was a rotating door of pokemon. it has nothing to do with the price of the game for me, i genuinely believe the game's pvp - which is the reason i play it past the initial runthrough and ive never gotten into making living dexes or breeding for shinies of favorites or anything like that - will be more interesting and give each gen a very unique flavor. that's sort of both the issue and beauty with pokemon, because it's such an unfocused game people enjoy it for many different reasons, and experience and play with it in wildly different ways. a friend of mine has built living dexes in every gen since 5 and that sounds like torture to me, but we both still love geeking out about when new games come out. it does lead to situations like this though where people can be fine or even excited for changes that completely mess with another group's preference.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:28
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Having a toggle for exp share makes the game too difficult for kids who just spam one move all day and accidentally turn it off This is also why gamefreak removed Pokemon types and different moves from this game, it was just too complicated
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Nov 10, 2019 06:30
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Countblanc posted:me upon hearing initial news about the dex being incomplete: "well that's sorta weird" Clefable is still a threat. D-Maxing my clefable to make it have 1000 HP and take 1 damage per hit.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:35
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Countblanc posted:sure, but i've been seeing people saying that for a while and while it's still true i figured i'd offer my own stance that the game would be more interesting for me personally if there was a rotating door of pokemon. it has nothing to do with the price of the game for me, i genuinely believe the game's pvp - which is the reason i play it past the initial runthrough and ive never gotten into making living dexes or breeding for shinies of favorites or anything like that - will be more interesting and give each gen a very unique flavor. I like building teams based around different themes or hell just similar color schemes. I had the chance to finally build a perfect full lizard team this gen and that's gone out the window completely.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:35
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galagazombie posted:When a key selling point is "catch this rare thing so you can lord it over people two games from now", then it kinda is. Long term interconnectivity is one of the franchises pillars. But is that the right kind of mindset to have? To me it isn't. Each Pokemon game should stand on its own and not be a mere stepping stone to the next sequel, or else what value do the older games have?
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Nov 10, 2019 06:38
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Clefable is still a threat. i hope you're excited for toxapex who is immune to entry hazards
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Nov 10, 2019 06:39
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Strictly speaking Game Freak could completely excise the entire Ice-type and I don't think anyone would notice anything different.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:40
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Funky Valentine posted:Strictly speaking Game Freak could completely excise the entire Ice-type and I don't think anyone would notice anything different. >:C And just when we were given the gift of Snom and Frosmoth. FOR SHAME Flopsy fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 06:42
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TOMMY PROVOLONE posted:But is that the right kind of mindset to have? To me it isn't. Each Pokemon game should stand on its own and not be a mere stepping stone to the next sequel, or else what value do the older games have? Options, having options is good. Options for those that like to bring in their old teams to a new game and play with, options for those that exclusively want to play with the new pokemon, or combinations thereof.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:46
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on a different note i think it's pretty amazing how locked down the leaks have been. not in an official sense, but i basically never see anything pop up on youtube that isn't heavily prefaced by "this is a video about leaks, do not watch if you do not want leaks" with completely fine thumbnails. same with twitter, and i follow plenty of things which would tell The Algorithm that id want to see leaks. i guess good poo poo for the people who actually decided to go in blind, hopefully they didn't get too ruined.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:02
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qnqnx posted:Options, having options is good. Options for those that like to bring in their old teams to a new game and play with, options for those that exclusively want to play with the new pokemon, or combinations thereof. The post I was responding to was saying that Gigantamax was worthless to them because it wouldn't be in the next generation of games. A better phrasing of my post would be that the features of each game should stand on their own and not be in service to an unknown sequel.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:09
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Araxxor posted:lmfao as if Nintendo doesn't saw off huge loving corners with their franchises and force strict deadlines as well. They've done it to pretty much every single one of their big titles on the Switch and shipped out several games straight up unfinished. (Kirby Star Allies was a big one. Splatoon and Fire Emblem are also some more examples.) Eh, what Star Allies was lacking compared to previous Kirby games and what it got in compensation after launch were two completely different things, imo. It felt like they wanted to make a smaller, more compact game to facilitate speedrunning through it often, then wanted to release characters bit by bit to increase long term engagement. Considering it was the same game, just with more bells and whistles, I don't really think it was unfinished per say.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:13
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TOMMY PROVOLONE posted:The post I was responding to was saying that Gigantamax was worthless to them because it wouldn't be in the next generation of games. A better phrasing of my post would be that the features of each game should stand on their own and not be in service to an unknown sequel. In that case, consider also the effort that may be needed for a Gigantamax capable pokemon. All we know so far is that they will be either a few given away, or through raids with a supposedly small chance of being able to. If the grind is too much considering also wanting desirable stats, and just for this game, I can easily see why someone wouldn't want to try at all. That if they don't save edit. Nature mints might help, and hopefully they may have maxed out IVs like legendaries or mythicals in S/M/US/UM qnqnx fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 07:15
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qnqnx posted:In that case, consider also the effort that may be needed for a Gigantamax capable pokemon. All we know so far is that they will be either a few given away, or through raids with a supposedly small change of being able to. If the grind is too much considering also wanting desirable stats, and just for this game, I can easily see why someone wouldn't want to try at all. That if they don't save edit. This exactly. It's the implication of a lot of work with no long term pay off.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:19
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lol. just imagine being mad at a pokemon game. wild.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:30
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qnqnx posted:In that case, consider also the effort that may be needed for a Gigantamax capable pokemon. All we know so far is that they will be either a few given away, or through raids with a supposedly small change of being able to. If the grind is too much considering also wanting desirable stats, and just for this game, I can easily see why someone wouldn't want to try at all. That if they don't save edit. I suppose it depends on the rate of their acquisition. Even so, it's roughly around 3 years for the next generation. Is there no value to them then if you can only use them for at least that period of time? I'm a stranger to this way of playing as my approach to Pokemon games is to play through them, build my team, and stop playing around the time I beat the elite four. I could never get into the type of grinding required for competitive Pokemon.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:31
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The Bee posted:Eh, what Star Allies was lacking compared to previous Kirby games and what it got in compensation after launch were two completely different things, imo. It felt like they wanted to make a smaller, more compact game to facilitate speedrunning through it often, then wanted to release characters bit by bit to increase long term engagement. Considering it was the same game, just with more bells and whistles, I don't really think it was unfinished per say. He thinks every game in unfinished if it ever gets an update.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:48
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The gen 1 Pokémon games were wildly ambitious for Gameboy games. Few attempted to make a full-length JRPG on the system, especially if it wasn't a port of an existing game. It may be buggy and horribly tuned, but it's still impressive in context.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:49
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Dynamax Alcremie is a giant cake that can also be my friend, and I personally feel that is worth putting the work in for. If Dynamax Pokémon are not compatible with how you find the game fun, you have my sympathy, and my hope that there will be features that improve the game for you. Thank you for listening, that was my 2 Pokedollars on the matter.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:17
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Catalina posted:Dynamax Alcremie is a giant cake that can also be my friend, and I personally feel that is worth putting the work in for. If Dynamax Pokémon are not compatible with how you find the game fun, you have my sympathy, and my hope that there will be features that improve the game for you. Imagine you put in a lot of work to find an alcremie that turns into a giant cake and then in the next games it's never going to do that again.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah that poo poo is just some absolutely insane "Yes thank you corporation for providing me with content that made me feel good". It's like e-mailing the Disney Corp the thank them for working so hard. It's just sad and you hate to see it. This is not what I was saying at all and the rank and file do indeed pay attention to how their game is being perceived and received because of course they do. At least that's always been the case at the companies I've worked at. gently caress corporations and suits, but I'll always give props to the artists and programmers who work long hours to make cool poo poo for me. mutata fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 08:27
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Flopsy posted:Imagine you put in a lot of work to find an alcremie that turns into a giant cake and then in the next games it's never going to do that again. Seems fine
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Nov 10, 2019 08:29
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Flopsy posted:Imagine you put in a lot of work to find an alcremie that turns into a giant cake and then in the next games it's never going to do that again. I put in a lot of work to find a Pichu with a weird ear and I haven't seen it in years.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:32
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omnibobb posted:lol. just imagine being mad at a pokemon game. wild. I care a lot about pokemon
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Nov 10, 2019 08:33
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Flopsy posted:Imagine you put in a lot of work to find an alcremie that turns into a giant cake and then in the next games it's never going to do that again. I understand that this is a big deal and a problem for you but you can't say "imagine how that feels" when I know exactly how that will feel for me and it's "I don't care". I will probably never see that Alcremie again after Sword/Shield whether it's in the next game or not because perpetually trading old Pokemon to new games is just not how I interact with this franchise.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:48
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Pokemon has always been a very frustrating series to be a fan of. Game Freak have always been borderline incompetent programmers, WAY too small to be making games on this scale in this time frame, and completely disconnected from the wider game development world. Half the reason Sun & Moon were even playable was because Yo-Kai Watch got big enough to scare them out of complacency, and even then they mostly just copied parts of its formula. Everything about how they have handled PR on this gen has been a failure; the leak got it more hype than any of their anemic trailers, and then most of that was bad because they made no effort to control the messaging on the cuts. And on TOP of all that, every time Junichi Masuda opens his goddamn mouth it's just him digging his feet in deeper about how this is just the way it is now, and it's not that different from before. It's like they are broadcasting this poo poo from another dimension, no acknowledgement of the leaks or blowback, and more vague handwaving about how Home will fix everything while we still have no idea what the gently caress Home even is. The Dex reduction as a concept isn't an insurmountable issue, and yeah, probably had to happen at some point to keep to their asinine annual release schedule. The problem is that they fumbled every bit of messaging about it, refuse to explain how they are offering an alternative with Home, are delivering a game that looks half-assed, and their only response publicly has been to insist that we deal with it because god forbid they learn how to patch a game like every other loving developer does. Note however that all of the new Pokemon designs are great and I have no complaints there. Probably would have been good to maybe show more of them by this close to release, but that boat evidently sailed.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:57
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As someone who works in the video game industry let me sayAraxxor posted:Typically the rank and file at a video game corporation could not give several shits about how some video game gets received. It would be a nice gesture, but a lot of the meaning would get lost in the action. ^^^ gently caress you ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah that poo poo is just some absolutely insane "Yes thank you corporation for providing me with content that made me feel good". It's like e-mailing the Disney Corp the thank them for working so hard. It's just sad and you hate to see it. ^^^ and gently caress you too When you creatively pour yourself into a project you drat well want to see people enjoying it, and the non-stop parade of harassment and negativity that swirls around the internet can be devastating when you've worked so hard on something you want people to like. Negative feedback should always be encouraged but you two sound like the type who'll harass & stalk a GM/community manager for a game you don't like just because "lolz who cares thats not a real person its just a ~*~corporation, maaaaaan~*~". Eat my whole rear end - You are what is wrong with the internet.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:59
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qnqnx posted:Options, having options is good. Options for those that like to bring in their old teams to a new game and play with, options for those that exclusively want to play with the new pokemon, or combinations thereof. Exactly. DPPt stands completely on it's own as a game while simultaneously being filled with interconnectivity stuff for Gen III, B&W&2 stands completely on its own as a game while simultaneously being filled with interconnectivity stuff for Gen IV. Theres no question of trade offs because their are none.
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Nov 10, 2019 09:05
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Blaziken386 posted:megas being gone sucks rear end, See, if I'm mad about anything, I'm mad about this. Okay, fine, you've decided megas were a 3DS gimmick and maybe you're unhappy with some of the power swings. You'd rather have the kaiju mode be a super mode. That's fine. Then make some of the megas into standard evolutions for their respective mons.  They can even get nerfed a bit if you feel the need to balance their being available all the time, it's fine, but those mons actually having a real use felt super duper good. Gen 6 turned Beedrill and Mawile into some of my favorite Pokemon ever. The idea that they're just consigned to the dumpster forever is a turbo bummer (and yes, if there's a leaked dex exclusion I'm a little about, it's no Beedrill).Granted, with the talk of the dex cuts... good lord but imagine what Reddit et al would've looked like back during the advent of Gen 3. Hell, the Internet we had back then was lit up about the transfer split for R&S. SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 09:15
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Mawile/Lopunny/Beedrill effectiveness
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Ometeotl posted:He thinks every game in unfinished if it ever gets an update. I imagined as such. I just find the case of Kirby personally interesting as someone who finds it both so similar and so different to the Returns to Dream Land era Kirby games that have dominated the series recently. I always felt like it paled in comparison as a follow-up to Robobot, but a look at the games shows it really isn't supposed to be. Hell, the new content they added that isn't more speedrunning characters boils down to an upgrade to the Arena mode (which is also designed to be replayed on every character) and a puzzle-based single player mode that seems to exist mostly to spotlight all those characters. I guess it's especially relevant because, much like how Star Allies' purpose seemed unclear until the updates, there's still so much we don't know about why Dexit was done for Sword and Shield. It can't be technical reasons because they already had all of Kanto on the Switch yet left out all but a third of its Pokedex. It can't be modeling reasons because all models are identical to the future proofed X and Y ones. It can't be for competitive play or Pokedex data because the 3DS releases already had native-only tournaments and a National Dex without dex entries. For whatever reason this was a creative decision, and only time will tell what that creative decision is. The Bee fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 09:24
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ZorpZuppins posted:Pokemon has always been a very frustrating series to be a fan of. Has it?? This is not a joke. Despite being active with playing the franchise and talking about it with friends, I basically had no involvement with a Pokemon-based fan community between posting on Bulbagarden when I was ten and looking at this thread a year ago. Before Dexit, none of this stuff has came up anywhere I've seen outside of this thread or various things I've seen posted on reddit that other people have linked to me. I honestly don't know if you guys realize that outside of this circle people have no idea that Game Freak is supposed to be the worst or that Masuda is a loving hack or whatever. And I'm not trying to say your feelings are invalid or anything, just that most of this stuff isn't really on the general audience's radar. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 09:25
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Blockhouse posted:Has it?? I think it's like Game of Thrones. People have concerns with the series, and the more things head in a direction people don't like, the more people stop giving those old concerns as much leeway. Sword and Shield coming with a price bump also comes with an increase in expectations, so things like a simple story, repeated gameplay flow between entries, low quality of graphics and animations, and lack of challenge get put under even further scrutiny. Especially when you can point to a multitude of earlier, cheaper entries that felt more feature complete.
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Nov 10, 2019 09:35
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Blockhouse posted:I understand that this is a big deal and a problem for you but you can't say "imagine how that feels" when I know exactly how that will feel for me and it's "I don't care". Yeah I have to agree with this, Pokemon and Pokemon gimmicks being removed doesn't and never will bother me, I just shrug and move on to whatever the current new thing is, why bother doing something if its being removed anyway is a weird take.
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Nov 10, 2019 09:43
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The Bee posted:Considering it was the same game, just with more bells and whistles, I don't really think it was unfinished per say. It was a pretty big consensus about that game.  (Also the director basically dodged the question when an interviewer asked them outright about releasing an unfinished feeling game.)Ometeotl posted:He thinks every game in unfinished if it ever gets an update. I'm sorry if I'm against consumer unfriendly practices and think we should be getting the full games at launch instead of rushed messes and artificially drip feeding stuff that was in previous games and putting a price tag on some of that to boot. Correnth posted:When you creatively pour yourself into a project you drat well want to see people enjoying it, and the non-stop parade of harassment and negativity that swirls around the internet can be devastating when you've worked so hard on something you want people to like. Negative feedback should always be encouraged but you two sound like the type who'll harass & stalk a GM/community manager for a game you don't like just because "lolz who cares thats not a real person its just a ~*~corporation, maaaaaan~*~". My apologies. I've seen and heard a lot horror stories about the game industry from some people who used to be in it (And some of them wanted nothing more to do with it) and I've just heard otherwise from them.
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Nov 10, 2019 10:39
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Araxxor posted:I'm sorry if I'm against consumer unfriendly practices and think we should be getting the full games at launch instead of rushed messes and artificially drip feeding stuff that was in previous games and putting a price tag on some of that to boot. Fortunately they were full games so I gues there is no issue
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Nov 10, 2019 10:42
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Funky Valentine posted:Strictly speaking Game Freak could completely excise the entire Ice-type and I don't think anyone would notice anything different. Ice is my favorite type < >
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Nov 10, 2019 12:15
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Hey guys, I like Pokemon and I'm very hype for Shield+Sword Imma get a Charjabug and name him Vengabug  Then I will use him to murder all my enemies.
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Nov 10, 2019 12:37
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Infinitum posted:Hey guys, I like Pokemon and I'm very hype for Shield+Sword god I love Charjabug, honestly maybe my favorite middle evolution of all time. absolutely perfect design. I have a plush one. 
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Nov 10, 2019 12:54
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I'm sad that only special Meowth you get as an early buyer bonus or whatnot will be able to Ultramaximise into Longcat, because that means you won't be able to get a shiny one that turns into Tacgnol 
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Nov 10, 2019 12:59
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