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Squalid posted:There's definitely truth to this, but it's worth pointing out Morales national political career really took off back in 2003 when he helped lead protests to force the resignation of Democratically elected President Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada, and his Vice President Carlos Mesa. Carlos Mesa is today the main leader of the opposition. These are not tactics unfamiliar to Morales. was morales trying to sell the country to western capitalists too
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Nov 10, 2019 21:52
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To think that Morales would be deposed before Maduro. What a crazy-rear end world.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:58
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Squalid posted:There's definitely truth to this, but it's worth pointing out Morales national political career really took off back in 2003 when he helped lead protests to force the resignation of Democratically elected President Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada, and his Vice President Carlos Mesa. Carlos Mesa is today the main leader of the opposition. These are not tactics unfamiliar to Morales. I like how you completely fail to mention the army opening fire on protesters and killing over 60 and wounding hundreds. But yeah, no difference, same thing.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:09
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He might be out of there https://twitter.com/News_Executive/status/1193634201997914112 Not exactly a good source but other should pick it up soon. (if it is true) https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1193622155986120704 https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1193638111965851653 RaffyTaffy fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 22:11
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I am sure that all the defenders of democracy really concerned about Evo's court packing will be here any second now to express their disapproval.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:16
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It is, major Argentinian newspapers picking it up
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Nov 10, 2019 22:17
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joepinetree posted:I like how you completely fail to mention the army opening fire on protesters and killing over 60 and wounding hundreds. history never repeats itself, but it does rhyme. perhaps you would have preferred if the army repeated this part of Bolivian history today rather than turning on Morales. I'm not really sure of what to make of events but I hope there will be a resolution that ends the violence and protects Bolivia's institutions.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:22
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Squalid posted:history never repeats itself, but it does rhyme. No, I am pointing out your dumbass bullshit false equivalency. "Hey, Morales protested and asked for resignation when the army opened fire on unarmed protesters, so it's only fair that now the military asks him to resign"
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Nov 10, 2019 22:24
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Squalid posted:history never repeats itself, but it does rhyme. I mean, the mass majority of the violence was done by the cops and poo poo supporting the coup so yea I imagine they'll just shift to normal pro-capital day to day violence now that they win
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Nov 10, 2019 22:25
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Squalid posted:history never repeats itself, but it does rhyme. any resolution that protects bolivia's institutions and ends violence would involve the chuds that just won loving off forever, so that's out of the question
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Nov 10, 2019 22:27
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RaffyTaffy posted:He might be out of there What a pity. I genuinely hope that his supporters do their best to make sure he does not face the horrific persecution that Lula has experienced.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:29
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Once again you see the folly for left regimes in trying to "play by the rules" set by the global north. Literally the entire western world was trying to gently caress Maduro over and yet he still clings to power. Evo's only mistake was not in consolidating his rule earlier.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:33
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Apparently there's a ton of people from social movements in Bolivia going to the capital to defend the government
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Nov 10, 2019 22:34
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Well, darn. Assuming the military et al let normal rules apply, who's next in line and are they good or bad? edit and also assuming the left protesters don't get morales reinstated
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Nov 10, 2019 22:34
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should've armed his supporters instead of hoping that cops and the military will not get bought by capitalists oh well GreyjoyBastard posted:Well, darn. Assuming the military et al let normal rules apply, who's next in line and are they good or bad? anyone good will be attacked by the same fascists that attacked evo morales, but, depending on how pissed off and willing to take to the streets the people that voted for morales are right now, the western puppet awaiting their coronation might have issues with taking the throne but who knows what will happen coups are a chaotic thing
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Nov 10, 2019 22:38
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lol bolivia making the case for why left wing governments either become authoritarian or get overthrown, what a goddamn disaster.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:38
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Once again you see the folly for left regimes in trying to "play by the rules" set by the global north. Literally the entire western world was trying to gently caress Maduro over and yet he still clings to power. Evo's only mistake was not in consolidating his rule earlier. Agreed. Hopefully the same mass movement that's mobilizing to protect the government puts an actual leftist in charge who will purge the military. Morales's liberal embrace of Mesa after the coup has put the entire populace of Bolivia in the hands of a military coup.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:39
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Lightning Knight posted:lol bolivia making the case for why left wing governments either become authoritarian or get overthrown, what a goddamn disaster. I really would have hoped that Brazil and Venezuela would have proven that already, but WELP, here we are.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:43
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Lightning Knight posted:lol bolivia making the case for why left wing governments either become authoritarian or get overthrown, what a goddamn disaster. Authoritarian is a weasel word that means nothing. Nobody in the western media decries the authoritarianism of liberal governments in south america brutally suppressing minorities and the poor, as long as power is passed back and forth between members of the ruling class in phony elections.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:46
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joepinetree posted:No, I am pointing out your dumbass bullshit false equivalency. if you really think that the gas war was all about the deaths of protestors idk what to say to you. it doesn't even make sense
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Nov 10, 2019 22:49
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Authoritarian is a weasel word that means nothing. Nobody in the western media decries the authoritarianism of liberal governments in south america brutally suppressing minorities and the poor, as long as power is passed back and forth between members of the ruling class in phony elections. I am lazy and phone posting and that’s a lot of words but sure.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:50
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Authoritarian is a weasel word that means nothing. Nobody in the western media decries the authoritarianism of liberal governments in south america brutally suppressing minorities and the poor, as long as power is passed back and forth between members of the ruling class in phony elections. I think he was using "authoritarian" in a pretty value-neutral sense, ie: left-wing leaders either consolidate power, or get overthrown. e: ^^^ yup ^^^
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Nov 10, 2019 22:52
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Once again you see the folly for left regimes in trying to "play by the rules" set by the global north. Literally the entire western world was trying to gently caress Maduro over and yet he still clings to power. Evo's only mistake was not in consolidating his rule earlier. Yep.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:57
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Squalid posted:if you really think that the gas war was all about the deaths of protestors idk what to say to you. it doesn't even make sense Why did Goni resign?
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Nov 10, 2019 22:59
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Majorian posted:I think he was using "authoritarian" in a pretty value-neutral sense, ie: left-wing leaders either consolidate power, or get overthrown. My bad
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Nov 10, 2019 23:03
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Buried lede in the twitter headlines: quote:Morales said he will call new elections after the Organization of American States (OAS) released a report saying a disputed vote last month that sparked deadly protests should be annulled because of irregularities. the opposition is, of course, demanding that Morales also not run again OAS preliminary report on their apparent election-system concerns: http://www.oas.org/documents/spa/press/Informe-Auditoria-Bolivia-2019.pdf i can't be bothered to machine translate it on my phone so I don't have an opinion on it Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 23:12
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Once again you see the folly for left regimes in trying to "play by the rules" set by the global north. Literally the entire western world was trying to gently caress Maduro over and yet he still clings to power. Evo's only mistake was not in consolidating his rule earlier. RottenK posted:should've armed his supporters instead of hoping that cops and the military will not get bought by capitalists Lightning Knight posted:lol bolivia making the case for why left wing governments either become authoritarian or get overthrown, what a goddamn disaster.  I'm very keen on seeing whether these rumored masses of pro-Morales protesters materialize and save Democracy from the imperialists
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Nov 10, 2019 23:26
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ANIME AKBAR posted:
What, exactly, is your viewpoint on this coup?
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Nov 10, 2019 23:29
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Buried lede in the twitter headlines: They're basically saying they found possible fraud to the tune of 350k votes, and Morales would have still gotten a comfortable majority, but it would have almost certainly gone to ballotage
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Nov 10, 2019 23:31
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ANIME AKBAR posted:
It’s the same problem as the American intervention in Libya. If the message we send is “if you work with us we’ll still coup you” we can’t complain when no one wants to work with us and entrenches their power instead in fear of us. Christ we suck lol.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:32
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Squalid posted:history never repeats itself, but it does rhyme. *opposition kidnaps mayors* *a mob burns down the president's sister's house* *military intervening in politics again* the institutions have been protected
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Nov 10, 2019 23:40
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Pochoclo posted:They're basically saying they found possible fraud to the tune of 350k votes, and Morales would have still gotten a comfortable majority, but it would have almost certainly gone to ballotage Okay yeah, the first count round he just barely squeaked past the runoff bar so that's what I would have expected if any fuckery was suspected; do you / the thread have any idea whether the audit / report is reasonably credible? Also, re my earlier question, quote:The resignations of Morales and his vice president meant it was not initially clear who would take the helm of the country pending the results of new elections.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:43
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Majorian posted:What, exactly, is your viewpoint on this coup? Still figuring it out. I have a close Bolivian-American friend who is very much a leftist but hates Morales (mainly for clinging to power like a dictator, and being a homophobe, IIRC). But regardless of that some of the reactions in here are loving reprehensible. I'm not convinced it's a "coup." My friend is telling me secondhand accounts of voter fraud (ballots signed by dead relatives, etc). No idea how pervasive it is. I see that Goons here are very critical of the OAS, but I can't tell why. VVV: lmao my dude if I have to explain it.... ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 23:48
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Still figuring it out. I have a close Bolivian-American friend who is very much a leftist but hates Morales (mainly for clinging to power like a dictator, and being a homophobe, IIRC). But regardless of that some of the reactions in here are loving reprehensible. In what way are they reprehensible?
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Nov 10, 2019 23:50
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Why did his own cabinet resign, though? gently caress the D&D back-and-forth, that needs to be explained.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:52
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Still figuring it out. I have a close Bolivian-American friend who is very much a leftist but hates Morales (mainly for clinging to power like a dictator, and being a homophobe, IIRC). But regardless of that some of the reactions in here are loving reprehensible. The military forcing the president to resign is the literal definition of a coup
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Nov 10, 2019 23:53
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Norton the First posted:Why did his own cabinet resign, though? gently caress the D&D back-and-forth, that needs to be explained. Yeah I'm also wondering what it was about this latest episode that caused his support to collapse so quickly.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:54
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ANIME AKBAR posted:VVV: lmao my dude if I have to explain it.... You do.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:54
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Still figuring it out. I have a close Bolivian-American friend who is very much a leftist but hates Morales (mainly for clinging to power like a dictator, and being a homophobe, IIRC). But regardless of that some of the reactions in here are loving reprehensible. He was nowhere close to a dictator. Your friend's a loving idiot.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:56
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https://www.proekt.media/investigation/morales-rosatom-eng/ He used Russian state enterprise consultants to help with the election and Russian elections are notorious for stuffed ballot boxes and putting people who ensure the win for the ruling party as heads of the electoral commisions. Was probably a bad idea
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Nov 10, 2019 23:56
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