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They are gonna put one of those dudes https://twitter.com/fcn_84/status/1193641662851014656
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Nov 11, 2019 04:48
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https://twitter.com/fcn_84/status/1193641662851014656 I'm sure they have the Bolivian people's, and democracy's, best interests at heart. e: motherfucker, beaten by one minute Majorian fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 04:49
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I thought the whole desperate Andean nazi bullshit was more of a Colombia thing, but we learn something new everyday
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Nov 11, 2019 04:50
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lol Telesur Context? Looks creepy. The context is that this is a military coup and the people doing the coup are now persecuting their opponents. Because this isn't really about Morales, its about the right seizing power by force since it failed to win it by legit means, and hence they're cracking down on everybody else in his party too. This shouldn't be hard to figure out. Also yes, the President of the Senate should become interim prez. However, it seems as if both the President of the Senate and her first deputy also decided to resign at the same time as Morales and his vice president, which seems to have led to the second deputy leader of the Senate to declare that she'll assume the post. Very strangely the two first people were members of Morales' party and the lady who ended up as interim prez was from the opposition, but I'm sure that this is all on the up and up, what with the people seizing power by force purging the presidential line of succession until one of their own ended up in the big chair and all. Very democratic.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:51
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Either way, good unless the coup installs some horrible rando, but what're the odds of that?
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Plutonis posted:They are gonna put one of those dudes It's cool, they're just Wobbuffet's friends out protesting and fighting the good fight, not a coup.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:52
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Cerebral Bore posted:The context is that this is a military coup and the people doing the coup are now persecuting their opponents. Because this isn't really about Morales, its about the right seizing power by force since it failed to win it by legit means, and hence they're cracking down on everybody else in his party too. This shouldn't be hard to figure out. so like, this sort of thing is why I'm lagging behind and requesting that people who are more Up On Things post in this thread if all this whatnot is accurate it's deeply horrifying but us gringos are even slower on the draw than spanish speaking media
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Nov 11, 2019 04:56
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Mischievous Mink posted:It's cool, they're just Wobbuffet's friends out protesting and fighting the good fight, not a coup. Gross comment. Now people here are going to paint all of the opposition as Nazi-sympathizers? Union Juvenil Cruceñista is awful.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:57
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Wobbuffet posted:Gross comment. Now people here are going to paint all of the opposition as Nazi-sympathizers? Union Juvenil Cruceñista is awful. They seem to represent the opposition pretty well, they are awful! Military coups are generally not backed by good folks.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:00
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Outrageous allegations from Evo Morales' cronies - only some of the opposition are Nazi-sympathisers.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:02
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BBJoey posted:Outrageous allegations from Evo Morales' cronies - only some of the opposition are Nazi-sympathisers. The nazis are too much, the opposition mostly just wants to burn ballot boxes and force resignations at gunpoint, really quite reasonable!
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Nov 11, 2019 05:04
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Wobbuffet posted:Gross comment. Now people here are going to paint all of the opposition as Nazi-sympathizers? Union Juvenil Cruceñista is awful. I mean, no, not literally everyone is, but apparently one of the major figures leading it sure is, and that seems, as the kids say, problematic! Also ya know the fascist violence being done against anyone to the left of Pinochet's ghost.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:06
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Mischievous Mink posted:They seem to represent the opposition pretty well, they are awful! Military coups are generally not backed by good folks. Another ignorant comment. Are you Bolivian? Are you saying that hundreds of thousands of people living here are awful people because they disagree with the legitimacy of Evo's presidency?
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Nov 11, 2019 05:07
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Mischievous Mink posted:The nazis are too much, the opposition mostly just wants to burn ballot boxes and force resignations at gunpoint, really quite reasonable! Also burning symbols of the region's indigenous communities. But hey, nothing Nazi-esque about that. Wobbuffet posted:Another ignorant comment. Are you Bolivian? Are you saying that hundreds of thousands of people living here are awful people because they disagree with the legitimacy of Evo's presidency? There's a difference between disagreeing with the legitimacy of Evo continuing to be president, and playing the apologist for a literal right-wing coup led at least partially by literal Nazis.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:08
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I'm not one to say that in the vast and complex movement of people who have issues with the government literally every person in it is a nazi sympathizer just because one of its faces drives around in a swastika SUV. I will however say it's kinda wild that one of the dudes in charge of it has a nazi-wagon when the guys on his side are burning ballots to prevent a recount and attacking local government figures who aren't pro-coup and generally seeming to be purging the government violently. That's very...fitting? It goes together too well? A bit on the nose, is all.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:10
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lol Telesur
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Nov 11, 2019 05:10
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GreyjoyBastard posted:so like, this sort of thing is why I'm lagging behind and requesting that people who are more Up On Things post in this thread Your default assumption in situations like this shouldn't be that these things are legitimate. You have been demanding proof that Morales "stepping down" is illegitimate, when any reasonable person should be assuming that the situation is exactly what it looks like unless some very substantial proof is provided otherwise. This line of reasoning is very harmful, because even if a politician did have some issues with corruption (or whatever), that still wouldn't justify a military coup. This is the angle the US has always taken to support foreign "regime change." At worst, it results in people supporting the coup, but it also results in people like yourself throwing up your arms and saying "who can really say what is good or bad, looks like there are arguments on both sides." By muddying the waters, it defangs opposition to what would normally (and correctly) be perceived as a transparent act of injustice. Whether you realize it or not, you're affording a degree of legitimacy to the US media narrative on topics like this that isn't warranted. When it comes to the specific topic of South American politics, you should trust US media narratives even less than you trust a source like teleSUR.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:11
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Personally if I was one of the people at the vanguard of a movement burning down government official's houses I didn't like and threatening any supporters of the government with exile or general violence, I wouldn't drive a nazi wagon. That's just me, though, I've always been a fan of the old Chanel advice about taking off one accessory before leaving home, is all. See it's funny because she was also a nazi.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:14
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Wobbuffet posted:Another ignorant comment. Are you Bolivian? Are you saying that hundreds of thousands of people living here are awful people because they disagree with the legitimacy of Evo's presidency? Look, I don't know poo poo about Bolivia and what the gently caress is happening there, but a Big Nazi being an important figure in deposing what might be a bad governor (again, I'unno) is kinda a red sign that maybe this isn't some sort of cool popular movement?
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Nov 11, 2019 05:16
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Wobbuffet posted:Another ignorant comment. Are you Bolivian? Are you saying that hundreds of thousands of people living here are awful people because they disagree with the legitimacy of Evo's presidency? Do I have to be Bolivian for your solidarity with the Nazi cause in your country to make sense?
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Nov 11, 2019 05:16
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Majorian posted:Also burning symbols of the region's indigenous communities. Wiphala should not be burnt. We can agree on this. But I'm not sure why I even bothered coming here tbh. I didn't even know about Union Juvenil Cruceñista joining the opposition in Santa Cruz, and now people are implying I'm a Nazi apologist. People are viewing this issue in very rigid black and white terms and dismissing the comments of the only Bolivian in this thread. This is a complex situation that is happening in my country, and there are many, many people that think Morales was a wannabe dictator. This will likely be my last comment in this thread. Adiós y Viva Bolivia carajo!
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Nov 11, 2019 05:19
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Wobbuffet posted:Wiphala should not be burnt. We can agree on this. People are actually saying you're an apologist for a right-wing coup led partially by Nazis, which is an accurate statement. That you're Bolivian doesn't obviate that fact. quote:This is a complex situation that is happening in my country, and there are many, many people that think Morales was a wannabe dictator. Parts of it are complex, but "right-wing coups: good or bad?" is not one of them. That is a black-and-white issue. They are bad. Majorian fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 05:20
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Ytlaya posted:You have been demanding proof that Morales "stepping down" is illegitimate, when any reasonable person should be assuming that the situation is exactly what it looks like unless some very substantial proof is provided otherwise. horseshit, ytlaya, i haven't demanded poo poo about the legitimacy of Morales' resignation, at most I've been waffling about it in a vacuum and mad about it in context don't be an rear end in a top hat
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Nov 11, 2019 05:24
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https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1193730263924256768?s=20
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Nov 11, 2019 05:26
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Look, they just care so much about democracy, it makes them really angry!
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Nov 11, 2019 05:31
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Sometimes democracy makes you so angry you just have to hit it!
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Nov 11, 2019 05:32
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#AskABolivian #NoNotThatOne
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Nov 11, 2019 05:34
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Looks like a coup, smells like a coup, walks like a coup... But hey, if it's actually a Bolivian popular movement...os bolivianos que lutem. Bastante.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:34
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Wobbuffet posted:Wiphala should not be burnt. We can agree on this. Thanks for coming anyway. The thread is bad now but maybe you could try coming back in a few weeks or months when Bolivia stops being mentioned so often on the BBC world service and everyone who just heard of Bolivia yesterday loses interest and stops posting their hot takes. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2019 05:34
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Squalid posted:Thanks for coming anyway. The thread is bad now but maybe you could try coming back in a few weeks or months when Bolivia stops being mentioned so often on the BBC world service and everyone who just heard of Bolivia yesterday loses interest and stops posting their hot takes. Do you have an argument of substance to make, or are all your posts just going to be accusing everyone who disagrees with you of posting in bad faith?
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Nov 11, 2019 05:36
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Majorian posted:People are actually saying you're an apologist for a right-wing coup led partially by Nazis, which is an accurate statement. That you're Bolivian doesn't obviate that fact. You know what? I take back what I said. I'm not leaving this thread. My take on Morales goes against many people's opinions here but I still think it's important that a Bolivian posts in a thread talking about Bolivian politics. This situation affects me, my family, and friends personally. It would be very easy for me to attack you and call you an authoritarianism and dictatorship apologist. You call this a right wing coup, but this doesn't erase the fact that Bolivians from all strides of life are tired of living under the boot of a man who thirsts for power. We have had too many dictatorships in our history. Not one more.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:49
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Wobbuffet posted:It would be very easy for me to attack you and call you an authoritarianism and dictatorship apologist. You call this a right wing coup, but this doesn't erase the fact that Bolivians from all strides of life are tired of living under the boot of a man who thirsts for power. What evidence do you have that he's a dictator who thirsts for power, besides him running for president again? e: Also you're not-so-subtly supporting a right-wing coup and claiming that you are tired of living under the boot of someone who thirsts for power, holy God. Majorian fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 05:51
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wobbs, odds are fairly good i'm going to disagree with you sometimes, but thank you for posting i much prefer to have some local voices
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Nov 11, 2019 05:51
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Squalid posted:Thanks for coming anyway. The thread is bad now but maybe you could try coming back in a few weeks or months when Bolivia stops being mentioned so often on the BBC world service and everyone who just heard of Bolivia yesterday loses interest and stops posting their hot takes. abloo bloo people aren't buying my milquetoast muddying of the water abloo bloo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2019 05:51
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Wobbuffet posted:We have had too many dictatorships in our history. Not one more.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:53
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Wobbuffet posted:We have had too many dictatorships in our history. Not one more. and if we have to execute every last politician in the country in a show trial to stop it, so be it
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Nov 11, 2019 05:56
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So uh, without, you know, interrupting the current flow of things, because it seems to be going pretty great right now ITT and all... and sorry if I'm a little behind on goings-on but, what happened to the folks who were walking to La Paz to counter-protest? Did they all just head home? Was that all bullshit?
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Nov 11, 2019 05:56
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Wobbuffet posted:You know what? I take back what I said. I'm not leaving this thread. My take on Morales goes against many people's opinions here but I still think it's important that a Bolivian posts in a thread talking about Bolivian politics. This situation affects me, my family, and friends personally. Military coups are better than the dictatorship of people getting the candidate they voted for? And you think you're NOT the authoritarian here? Your only justification for this nonsense stance is that you pinkie swear lots of nazis are tired of being repressed. I'm not won over.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:57
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Prince Myshkin posted:#AskABolivian This is the dumbest loving thing. We kind of know where Bolivians stand. Because even in the worst case scenario from the OAS audit of the vote Evo still had the most votes. Maybe not enough to avoid a runoff, but there is zero doubt that he was the leader in the 1st round. Are we supposed to take the word of the average chud as representative of the situation in the US?
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Nov 11, 2019 06:12
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joepinetree posted:This is the dumbest loving thing. So I actually have a related question: is the new election intended to be for... all the congressional whatnot, or just for the presidency? Because there were a bunch of non-presidential things on the ballot too, yeah?
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Nov 11, 2019 06:16
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Bob le Moche posted:He says, as a fascist military coup removes the democratically-elected president from power *She This 'democratically-elected president' who tried to commit fraud, ignored the February 21st referendum that the Bolivian majority voted against him running again, and who was running for a fourth term when it goes against our constitution?
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Nov 11, 2019 06:22
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