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Mega Comrade posted:We just going to ignore suspicious irregularities of the election? That he ignored the referendum result on extending maximum term and just ran anyway? That when he was behind in the polls he paused the election to allow himself time to recover? Tesseraction posted:This is why I have kinda held off complaining about Morales, but I do also suspect there is something untoward in the way he stepped down - and how many times off the top of your head has "the military has taken over <country>" gone well in modern history? The election watchdog goes "there's irregularities, we don't have evidence yet but totally trust us", Morales goes "alright then if there's a problem we'll have another election", but that's not good enough. The military launches a coup where they plan to loving kidnap relatives of officials until Morales explicitly says "i will resign because the military is loving kidnapping relatives of officials and I'm scared for their safety, this is a coup". It works, he does that, and the sensible british left only have to say "oh he was a wonderful leader who was brilliant but he must be a dictator because [behavior that is normal in a western country]. Anyone who stands up for him is a moron, yay CIA" and "I suspect there is something untoward about a loving military coup". Try not being so wet for once in your life.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:24 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 13:29 |
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Miftan posted:Thanks, I blame Tess. If I was going to spend actual money buying people mean titles I wouldn't do it over chocolate, something my lactose intolerance makes difficult to consume regularly.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:24 |
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HorseLord posted:The election watchdog goes "there's irregularities, we don't have evidence yet but totally trust us", Morales goes "alright then if there's a problem we'll have another election", but that's not good enough. The military launches a coup where they plan to loving kidnap relatives of government officials until Morales explicitly says "i will resign because the military is loving kidnapping relatives of government officials and I'm scared for their safety, this is a coup". I mean, regardless of what I say, the people who want him out of power are capitalists and/or nazis, so I am sad he resigned. Just saying that the term limits thing provides an easy attack line.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:26 |
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Miftan posted:Thanks, I blame Tess. Blame your own bad opinions
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:27 |
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Tesseraction posted:This is why I have kinda held off complaining about Morales, but I do also suspect there is something untoward in the way he stepped down - and how many times off the top of your head has "the military has taken over <country>" gone well in modern history? I possibly may be misremembering, but Thomas Sankara and Burkino Faso started down the good path in 1984 until I think he was assassinated in 1987. Many apologies if I am completely wrong on this.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:37 |
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Mega Comrade posted:Oh I completely agree. But when your opponents are already making accusations you want to be the British Stalin, speaking up in defence of a current leader who was making all the stereotypical dictator power moves seems to me like a dumb decision. Some of that's for good reason, he's done a lot of good, but also kicking the DEA out on their ear gets the libertarians interested, and being an indigenous person and standing for indigenous people's rights gets the Guardian lot interested, so he gets more than "here is an angry looking man with a mustache and a military cap, he is going to do a socialism, maybe he will do it to you" or "an muslim (scary)" to him in the press. Because of that, I don't think supporting him has the same negative optics in the UK as supporting, say, Assad or Maduro or other Assigned UK Bad People. e: ^^ That, I think, is part of the problem though. Either the military takes over with a man of the people who loves the people and spends time among them and then gets shot, or the military takes over with a man who hides behind guns and barbed wire, and distant from the people begins to dominate them. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:39 |
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Me listening to the latest pod:
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:40 |
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VideoGames posted:I possibly may be misremembering, but Thomas Sankara and Burkino Faso started down the good path in 1984 until I think he was assassinated in 1987. That was my first thought. Worth bearing in mind that Sankara also took part in the previous military coup before becoming disillusioned and staging his own, so a few years of a decent leader who's reforms are instantly reversed in the middle of three military coups is not a great record. E: Also, he was assassinated on the order of the French, so as per usual the real bad guys are The West.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:42 |
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Yeah Sankara was good but also part of a domino chain of coups that ended with a real piece of poo poo in charge.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:46 |
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Mega Comrade posted:We just going to ignore suspicious irregularities of the election? That he ignored the referendum result on extending maximum term and just ran anyway? That when he was behind in the polls he paused the election to allow himself time to recover? None of this is actually true, but don't let that stand in the way of both sidesing a democratically elected leftist and the rightwing junta that deposed him and are now actively trying to purge the left in Bolivia by way of street violence and show trials.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:47 |
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Tesseraction posted:Yeah Sankara was good but also part of a domino chain of coups that ended with a real piece of poo poo in charge. The French weren't going to let one of their colonies just improve like that and the rest of the developed world didn't want a successful African country showing what was possible https://twitter.com/evagolinger/status/1193704121565696000?s=19 Jose fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:49 |
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Praseodymi posted:That was my first thought. Not quite true, he didn't stage the coup that brought himself to power, the guy that ordered his assassination and couped him, performed the coup and released him from house arrest to rule the country. gently caress the French. e: And what's with people used to the Westminster system complaining about a democratically elected leader not having term limits? I loving hate John Howard and the fucks that kept electing him, but if he'd won the 2007 Australian election he would have tied Morales for term length and no one would have said a word. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:56 |
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Mega Comrade posted:Oh I completely agree. But when your opponents are already making accusations you want to be the British Stalin, speaking up in defence of a current leader who was making all the stereotypical dictator power moves seems to me like a dumb decision. They made Ed Milliband out to be the British Stalin. If this teaches you anything it's that if they're going to call you Stalin no matter what you do, then you have no reason to compromise. You can just be Stalin if you want to, it won't make a difference to your reputation.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:57 |
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Rarity posted:Me listening to the latest pod: Hey now out of all the posters here I'd have thought you'd be sympathetic to a one trick pony!
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:57 |
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namesake posted:Hey now out of all the posters here I'd have thought you'd be sympathetic to a one trick pony! It took you 3 minutes to explain this insult to me over Discord so I'm not sure it's quite the own you think it is
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 11:59 |
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It's very clearly a my little pony joke
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:02 |
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https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1193840620701437957 lol, sure
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:03 |
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Lie on the front page and apologise the next day on the footer of page 23, nice.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:09 |
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HorseLord posted:They made Ed Milliband out to be the British Stalin. Sometimes its not possible to put out a fire, you just have try to control it and wait for it to burn itself out. You generally don't want to pour petrol on it though.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:13 |
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Coohoolin posted:this seems somewhat misleading... Here's the full quote from her on this: quote:ET: I think, beyond the bluster and so on of this announcement, if we look at actually what there is [the Tories are] saying, they're essentially saying Theresa May made an announcement that she would change the law when she was Prime Minister - she didn't do it - and they're going to do it, but their main purpose is to stop vexatious and unfair actions, and who could be against that? I don't think that personally you need to change the Human Rights Act about that-
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:19 |
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Mega Comrade posted:Sometimes its not possible to put out a fire, you just have try to control it and wait for it to burn itself out. You generally don't want to pour petrol on it though. Yeah let me check my schedule for a right time to take advice from an apologist for a fascist military coup
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:21 |
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Rarity posted:Me listening to the latest pod: *looks wistfully at boxes of unsold "I'm Glad She's Dead" mugs, t-shirts and keychains*
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:22 |
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mehall posted:Morales agreed to have another election as soon as OAS released their report. can you put this in tweet form so i can retweet it thanks
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:22 |
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HJB posted:Here's the full quote from her on this: mmm that's not full on "i support the law to make child murdering veterans immune" but it's not great, is it
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:24 |
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(ignore!)
Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:28 |
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I'm seeing chunks of the OAS report that indicate real issues with tampering with the vote tally, anyone got a link to the actual report? Everything I see makes it sound like they caught the numbers being tweaked to avoid a runoff. edit nm: http://www.oas.org/documents/spa/press/Informe-Auditoria-Bolivia-2019.pdf Yeah, looks like someone hosed with the vote count to avoid a runoff, based on the OAS report. quote:Conclusions of the preliminary findings Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:29 |
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Jose posted:It's very clearly a my little pony joke Well you know how Discord is.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:31 |
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For all this thread claims to support trans rights, there's a hell of a lot of you misgendering and deadnaming our Prime Minister. They have said many times that henceforth they wish to be known as Diana Ditch. Please respect their choice. Thank you.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:36 |
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Sorry can someone clarify are we saying they used the wrong clip on some news report or that the live feed was spliced with old footage 'correction' style.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:36 |
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Rustybear posted:Sorry can someone clarify are we saying they used the wrong clip on some news report or that the live feed was spliced with old footage 'correction' style. they used old footage this morning reporting on it instead of the footage from yesterday
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:37 |
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Rustybear posted:Sorry can someone clarify are we saying they used the wrong clip on some news report or that the live feed was spliced with old footage 'correction' style. I think I read the clip wrong, as far as I can see the live feed wasn't spliced. Oops.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:38 |
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Necrothatcher posted:*looks wistfully at boxes of unsold "I'm Glad She's Dead" mugs, t-shirts and keychains* When the podcast blows up and we start a merch store we can move it all. Personally, I don't know how I'd feel about a t shirt with a picture of thatcher on. I've got one with Cameron kissing a severed pig's head and it always makes the wife uncomfortable because she hates seeing Cameron's face.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:39 |
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Jose posted:they used old footage this morning reporting on it instead of the footage from yesterday Oh ok while unsurprising that's not quite as insane as I'd heard. At the end of the day, they're the state broadcaster. The idea that they're not an impartial bastion of journalistic integrity is only news to ppl whose views have only marginally and recently diverged from British institutional opinion.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:41 |
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Miftan posted:When the podcast blows up and we start a merch store we can move it all. Personally, I don't know how I'd feel about a t shirt with a picture of thatcher on. I've got one with Cameron kissing a severed pig's head and it always makes the wife uncomfortable because she hates seeing Cameron's face. Note to self: workshop marketable catchphrases so I can rake it in on merch royalties
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:42 |
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https://twitter.com/TPGLA1/status/1193855112428556288?s=20 Didn't realise you lived so close by Jose. Mega Comrade posted:We just going to ignore suspicious irregularities of the election? That he ignored the referendum result on extending maximum term and just ran anyway? That when he was behind in the polls he paused the election to allow himself time to recover? Yes, we are going to ignore the irrelevant things and focus on the right wing coup you dipshit lib. And lol at quoting the OAS. Yes, US backed organisations are always the ones I trust Let's be clear. Morales was talking about nationalising a mining industry to ensure one of the poorest nations in South America gets a fairer sharer of the export of its natural resources. Then he got couped. Anything else is a distraction. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:42 |
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forkboy84 posted:And lol at quoting the OAS. Yes, US backed organisations are always the ones I trust ed: nm. this is the wrong thread for this. Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:45 |
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lmao https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1193549390193004544
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:46 |
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https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1193842069875437569?s=19 al qaeda don't need the white helmets for PR anymore they have the turkish army lmao
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:47 |
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VideoGames posted:I possibly may be misremembering, but Thomas Sankara and Burkino Faso started down the good path in 1984 until I think he was assassinated in 1987. I found this essay fascinating - from Military Marxist Regimes in Africa by Markakis and Waller, published 1986, a year before Compaoré would coup Sankara: quote:In a basically agrarian country like Burkina, where the peasantry represents 87 per cent of the active population, any change in the property law and in the social structures that it underpins cannot but follow a certain political logic. The logic that inspired the reform of 9 August 1984 was a categorial one since, according to the terms of the ordinance that sets out its content, it falls within the framework of the fight for economic independence that was initiated on 4 August 1983 [when Compaoré staged the 1983 coup that would release the arrested Sankara and make him president]. It is with this struggle in view that the reform dispossesses the great landed proprietors and abolishes the traditional rules with reference to which the chiefs held their vast estates. The confiscated land was distributed according to the principle 'one plot of land for one person or one household'. ...The reform, ... is the key-piece in the 'anti-feudal struggle' of the NCR [National Council of the Revolution, Sankara's junta/cabinet]; it crowns a movement that started in January 1984 with the abrogation of the laws giving their customary chiefs their political and administrative rights, their incomes and their privileges. Too revolutionary for the rural peasantry who resent the cultural imposition, not revolutionary enough for the urban left who fantasize about an impossible, unwinnable confrontation with foreign powers whilst rejecting any reduction in their own consumption, viciously opposed by the middle-class trade unions on whose behalf it nominally governs, denounced as too liberal and compromising in its own time and ultimately deposed by the original father of the revolution - theoretically on the Marxist-Leninist left seeking to oppose counter-revolutionary tendencies, and who instead himself became the IMF's personal debt collector within two years - and instead being valourized as far more revolutionary than it really was after the fact across the entire region All in all, Morales merely wanting to sell beef to the Socialism with Chinese Characteristics seems pretty tame in comparison, has to be said ronya fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Nov 11, 2019 |
# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:51 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 13:29 |
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gh0stpinballa posted:https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1193842069875437569?s=19 This happened shortly after Russia announced he was a former MI6 spy. So likely this is a Russian revenge for being a thorn in Assad's side. Also does call into question whether he was doing it for altruistic reasons or to aid UK foreign policy in the region.
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# ? Nov 11, 2019 12:54 |