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I've gotten more enthusiastic about CK2 and in turn CK3 recently, though it certainly wasn't because of PDXcon, which other people who attended have listed the problems with in here. CK2 itself still just has a really nice loop going and if they can maintain that for CK3 I think the particularities of holding distribution aren't going to matter that much re: enjoyment of the game. Really hoping they build it to be as mod-friendly as possible, though it being a paradox game I'd have to imagine they will. I'd be remiss to post in here about how fun Crusader Kings is and not mention what got me back into it most recently: Hashim's current LP in Let's Play, where a bunch of folks are running the historical parliament of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Feel free to join in if you're reading this/enjoy CK2, it's been a wild ride so far. 
Mirdini fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 01:56
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Mirdini posted:I've gotten more enthusiastic about CK2 and in turn CK3 recently, though it certainly wasn't because of PDXcon, which other people who attended have listed the problems with in here. CK2 itself still just has a really nice loop going and if they can maintain that for CK3 I think the particularities of holding distribution aren't going to matter that much re: enjoyment of the game. Really hoping they build it to be as mod-friendly as possible, though it being a paradox game I'd have to imagine they will. I thought I was well and truly done with reading yet another legislative Paradox LP, but congrats, you sold me with the House of Groves.
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Nov 10, 2019 10:06
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Reveilled posted:I thought I was well and truly done with reading yet another legislative Paradox LP, but congrats, you sold me with the House of Groves. It even has the mismatched windows lmao
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Nov 10, 2019 14:35
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Enjoy posted:It even has the mismatched windows lmao Oh yeah, all credit to SA user Pacho for the art treatment. Implementation into CK2 is Hashim's work.
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Nov 10, 2019 15:28
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Load-bearing tabernacle.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:21
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Looking forward to someone getting defenestrated after slipping on the stairs
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Nov 11, 2019 15:52
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Mirdini posted:Oh yeah, all credit to SA user Pacho for the art treatment. Implementation into CK2 is Hashim's work. And thanks to the all the feedback and suggestions from the rest of the Haute Cour 
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Nov 11, 2019 18:48
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I want to learn to play EUIV. What's a good beginner nation?
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Nov 11, 2019 19:14
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SirPhoebos posted:I want to learn to play EUIV. What's a good beginner nation? Castile or Ottomans.
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Nov 11, 2019 19:16
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SirPhoebos posted:I want to learn to play EUIV. What's a good beginner nation? ottomans are the strongest nation in the game spain start off in a very safe position and can do alot. england have a rocky start but it's pretty hard to get into a game losing position as them. bohemia are pretty good to learn the HRE mechanics and AE management
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Nov 11, 2019 19:18
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Its been a real long time since i played (I am waiting for the patch next year) but I have always felt that Muscovy is a good starter country. Teaches you how to fight, how to deal with subjects, and doesnt have many nearby threats.
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Nov 11, 2019 19:27
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Yeah I liked learning with mother Russia, not sure if that's viable or what but, seconding the Muscovy vote. Is the patch next year going to remove/retools estates to be not horrible?
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Nov 11, 2019 19:36
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SirPhoebos posted:I want to learn to play EUIV. What's a good beginner nation? Ottomans are the classic
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Nov 11, 2019 19:45
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Eimi posted:Is the patch next year going to remove/retools estates to be not horrible? Yes, but they haven't revealed any details yet
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Nov 11, 2019 19:49
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Eimi posted:Yeah I liked learning with mother Russia, not sure if that's viable or what but, seconding the Muscovy vote. It's very easy to screw up Muscovy early, plus you can get screwed by the random diplomatic situation (basically you have to be fast about subjugating both Novogorod and hordes). Kinda same with France, it's a powerhouse but if you don't know what's what you're gonna get in an early world war. Ottomans and Castille are much harder to screw up.
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Nov 11, 2019 19:52
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Eimi posted:Is the patch next year going to remove/retools estates to be not horrible?
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Nov 11, 2019 19:55
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I would say Castille and England are way too easy, even for a beginner. And Ottomans are too easy too and terrible to explore and colonize, which is a big part of the game I would recommend Portugal: nice position to explore the coast of Africa, the east and the Americas, pretty safe if you secure a good alliance with Castille, you can wage wars to the weaker north African nations, but is not a power juggernaut, so it still offers a (small) challenge. Its a full EU4 experience and is easy without being baby mode
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Nov 11, 2019 21:01
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Elias_Maluco posted:I would say Castille and England are way too easy, even for a beginner. And Ottomans are too easy too and terrible to explore and colonize, which is a big part of the game Terrible to explore and colonize is exactly why its a good beginner nation, it reduces the amount of things you need to learn about at one time.
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Nov 12, 2019 01:45
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Also exploration and colonization is super boring in EU4
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Nov 12, 2019 01:56
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Also exploration and colonization is super boring in EU4 Eh, it's an alright loop the first couple times you're doing it, particularly with RNW (with lobby sight off). Gets monotonous pretty quick if you're doing a full game or doing it in subsequent campaigns though yeah.
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Nov 12, 2019 02:47
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Mirdini posted:Eh, it's an alright loop the first couple times you're doing it, particularly with RNW (with lobby sight off). Gets monotonous pretty quick if you're doing a full game or doing it in subsequent campaigns though yeah. I will give Paradox credit for fixing the dreadful EU3 exploration system where you had to move your explorer through each sea zone and micromanage attrition. For me the real sticking point is how barebones the colonial nations are -- there are a couple events giving a little flavor but they're (mostly?) the same for every colonizer and the CNs almost never bother to use their militaries appropriately, even if they have great relations with the overlord. I might try RNW again at some point for a change but it's usually a bore too, with no interesting continents appearing.
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Nov 12, 2019 05:05
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Conquest of Paradise got tweaked a while in to be a bit better with the random generation - but there's a few mods on the workshop that add new generations I think as well, and/or at the very least tweak things so its even better. RNW is underrated, though some of the more outlandish results seem to break the colonizer AI sometimes due to colonial range.
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Nov 12, 2019 05:15
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Currently I think it's much more lucrative to just focus on trade companies over actual colonial stuff. But I'm not 100% on that. Also I wish the RNW would focus on forming bigger landmasses. I always just get two smallish islands super far apart from each other and it's rather boring.
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Nov 12, 2019 07:01
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Eimi posted:Currently I think it's much more lucrative to just focus on trade companies over actual colonial stuff. But I'm not 100% on that. Also I wish the RNW would focus on forming bigger landmasses. I always just get two smallish islands super far apart from each other and it's rather boring. Yeah the real unfortunate thing is that TCs (especially if you're in singleplayer and can thus basically engineer a monopoly everywhere) are absolutely busted and blow the income you can get off colonial nations out of the water. So the only reason to go in on CNs is if you're Iqta govtype (because the bonuses also scale off your CN provinces) or if you're doing it for painting the map/achievement/just wanting to run CN reasons. I have had a few fun RNWs since they updated the generator but yeah a lot of the time you Just Get Big Falklands Again.
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Nov 12, 2019 09:32
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reignonyourparade posted:Terrible to explore and colonize is exactly why its a good beginner nation, it reduces the amount of things you need to learn about at one time. But these things are a big part of the game. Someone wanting to know the game will probably want to try those. I maintain tha Portugal is good cause you will be doing a bit of everything that makes EU4, but is not hard, nor it is too easy too Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Nov 12, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 12:08
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Elias_Maluco posted:But these things are a big part of the game. Someone wanting to know the game will probably want to try those. That doesn't mean they need to learn everything at once.
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Nov 12, 2019 12:34
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Elias_Maluco posted:But these things are a big part of the game. Someone wanting to know the game will probably want to try those. I think you are forgetting just how confusing EU4 is to a brand new player. What would actually happen if you tell someone that Portugal is a great first nation to learn the game with is:
Even if you impress upon them the need to break the English alliance and replace it with a Castilian one they'll probably still try to expand into North Africa. That's what you do in strategy games, right? And not knowing the military system they'll lose all their manpower to high attrition and lose every battle to bad terrain. Final result won't differ much from the above. If you further impress upon them that they should never start a war and only colonize, well that's honestly quite boring. Particularly as a new player playing Portugal. Played by someone who don't know how to work the economy Portugal probably won't have money for more than a single colony until nearly 1600. In short, you should only tell someone to learn the game with Portugal if you want to convince them that Paradox makes horrible games only played by hardcore masochists. Drakhoran fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Nov 12, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 15:07
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Drakhoran posted:In short, you should only tell someone to learn the game with Portugal if you want to convince them that Paradox makes horrible games only played by hardcore masochists. Well... that isn't exactly misleading, now is it? Anyway I'd think Castile is a better first nation than Portugal because you a) start out stronger, but still pretty limited b) if you can survive the first few decades you're probably going to get a PU for free and becoming a major power without too much effort (and a strong Junior Partner is infinitely better than just having more of your own troops since you don't have to micromanage them like crazy) c) you can colonize, go to war, play the diplomacy game or mostly whatever you want to do and you're always kind of on the fringe of Europe so no one will make a beeline for you Ottomans is even better because you can do whatever you drat well please and it's borderline impossible to get killed (rather than the "very very unlikely to get killed" of Castile), but you'll know nothing about PUs and very little about exploration or colonization, or getting trade companies - but that could wait a second game honestly. Main concern with the ottomans is they start out SO strong that you could get into bad habits and then get steamrolled if you try to do it again with a smaller nation in a different situation TorakFade fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 12, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 15:21
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Yeah, the idea that the Ottomans are "too easy for a new player" is bunk. There's no such thing as too easy for a new player, let them eat a quarter of the known world and have fun shovelling limitless legions at their opponents. Then they'll actually continue playing the game as opposed to getting their rear end kicked as Portugal and quitting forever.
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Nov 12, 2019 15:25
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Drakhoran posted:I think you are forgetting just how confusing EU4 is to a brand new player. What would actually happen if you tell someone that Portugal is a great first nation to learn the game with is:
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Nov 12, 2019 15:43
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the best nation for a new player is Byzantium, unironically. You have obvious goals and succeeding at them requires you to develop a basic grasp of most of the systems in the game, including tricking the AI into doing dumb poo poo. Your starting resources are very limited, so it's impossible to get overwhelmed by options, but once you've gotten a handle on things you can expand super quickly.
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Nov 12, 2019 15:46
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New CK3 dev diary on war. Siege weapons!
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Nov 12, 2019 15:46
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Retinues being built-in from the start of the game makes a lot of sense.
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Nov 12, 2019 15:52
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Drakhoran posted:I think you are forgetting just how confusing EU4 is to a brand new player. What would actually happen if you tell someone that Portugal is a great first nation to learn the game with is: I dunno, Portugal was my tutorial nation and it worked for me, even if it took some restarts I do believe that starting with a huge nation like Ottomans or England is like starting on endgame. You can try everything, ok. But is like a sandbox, you basically cant lose. Thus I dont think a person will learn much from it
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Nov 12, 2019 16:03
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dunno, Portugal was my tutorial nation and it worked for me, even if it took some restarts In your first game ever you're learning the UI in the first place so a sandbox where you can't lose is exactly what you want.
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Nov 12, 2019 16:13
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The best nation to learn EU4 as is whichever nation you think sounds cool. You're gonna be pretty lost and gently caress everything up anyway on your first few tries, might as well be The Pope while doing it.
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Nov 12, 2019 16:15
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There's a difference between "nation you can easily win the game with" and "nation that is good for learning mechanics and not getting overwhelmed". I think I would feel pretty overwhelmed playing Ottomans as a brand new player. I always pick somewhere really tiny for a new game so I can get a handle on what is going on, even if it means I can't do much.
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Nov 12, 2019 16:15
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cock hero flux posted:the best nation for a new player is Byzantium, unironically. You have obvious goals and succeeding at them requires you to develop a basic grasp of most of the systems in the game, including tricking the AI into doing dumb poo poo. Your starting resources are very limited, so it's impossible to get overwhelmed by options, but once you've gotten a handle on things you can expand super quickly. This way you know that EU4 is actually a short roguelike similar to FTL.
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Nov 12, 2019 17:06
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fuf posted:There's a difference between "nation you can easily win the game with" and "nation that is good for learning mechanics and not getting overwhelmed". That’s basically my strategy. The very first time I played a Paradox game was Victoria 2, starting as Travancore 
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Nov 12, 2019 17:09
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I think Aragon is a great first country attempt. You have a strong starting position, a good vassal, lots of opportunities to expand in all four directions, and all the fun that comes with European dynastic politics. You can go to North Africa, gobble up Castile or some of France if they get involved in a big war, you can move into Italy from Naples, and it feels very open and relaxing.
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Nov 12, 2019 17:19
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