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TOMMY PROVOLONE
Jul 30, 2014

I am the sun. The moon.


Masuda laughing at his computer screen as he twirls a necklace with a usb labeled "All the cut Pokemon I took hostage" around his finger.

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Mr. Creakle
Apr 27, 2007

Protecting your virginity



Unlucky7 posted:

That is what I think. The article said that someone said that they wanted to play SwSh with their Bayleef, Matsuda replied to that tweet in the positive, but then it turned out that Bayleef was cut so now everyone is accusing him of making a mean joke.

Interesting. And also that does feel like a dark joke after everything that’s happened, though holy poo poo they are loving pixels and that does not excuse the harassment of another human being. Didn’t they have to cancel a prelaunch event because the fan rage in Japan had escalated so crazily they were afraid of something like that anime arsonist happening again? Looks like the official reason for the cancellation is “operational reasons” but pfft... I’d bet money that the real answer is no one in their right mind wants to deal with psychos like that face to face.

I’d ask “are there really people out there so broken that they literally cannot imagine functioning in life without playing the newest mediocre entry in a virtual pet franchise marketed towards children without Forgettable Battle Monster #573858”, but I already know the answer. :smith: What the gently caress happened to gaming?

Pylons
Mar 16, 2009

I think the blame is probably on the person making the joke if they did it knowing that Bayleef is cut.

Eox
Jun 20, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
The Madman Masuda could not be satisfied with spiky-eared Pichu and cosplay Pikachu alone

Mr. Creakle
Apr 27, 2007

Protecting your virginity



Pylons posted:

I think the blame is probably on the person making the joke if they did it knowing that Bayleef is cut.

The blame is on them, yes. They deserve blame for that and criticism for the game’s many other issues. They deserve every bit of the poo poo-flinging they are getting for the PR nightmare they themselves created.

However, they do NOT deserve death threats or to fear for their personal safety. It’s a video game. Bayleef didn’t come to that fan’s house and Razor Leaf his dog’s head off

Lacrosse
Jun 16, 2010

>:V


I'm more worried about some of the game breaking bugs I've read about in discussions regarding playthroughs on the leaked ROMs. My hope is these are a form of soft DRM kinda like how hacked versions of original Spyro the Dragon were technically playable but your progress would constantly be lost or weird visual bugs would happen to try to deter you from continuing. Soul Silver had this so I'm reserving judgement until the game officially launches.

Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013

extra row of teeth posted:

The blame is on them, yes. They deserve blame for that and criticism for the game’s many other issues. They deserve every bit of the poo poo-flinging they are getting for the PR nightmare they themselves created.

However, they do NOT deserve death threats or to fear for their personal safety. It’s a video game. Bayleef didn’t come to that fan’s house and Razor Leaf his dog’s head off


This 100%. Give them the lashing they deserve in their wallets not the whole death threats poo poo.

Borsche69
May 8, 2014

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

Whats this I hear about people having their poo poo in a bind about SwSh

I'm excited for the next 30 pages of people woddling into the thread asking this exact same question and rehashing the exact same posts because they can't be assed to look anything up.

This is a great post that summarizes everything that people might not like about the new versions, complete with a lot of video proof and comparisons:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dv438w/complete_list_of_all_problems_known_so_far_in/

Mr. Creakle
Apr 27, 2007

Protecting your virginity



Lacrosse posted:

I'm more worried about some of the game breaking bugs I've read about in discussions regarding playthroughs on the leaked ROMs. My hope is these are a form of soft DRM kinda like how hacked versions of original Spyro the Dragon were technically playable but your progress would constantly be lost or weird visual bugs would happen to try to deter you from continuing. Soul Silver had this so I'm reserving judgement until the game officially launches.

They’d get patched. The Luminose City bug in XY was fixed decently quick IIRC.

Borsche69
May 8, 2014

Lacrosse posted:

I'm more worried about some of the game breaking bugs I've read about in discussions regarding playthroughs on the leaked ROMs. My hope is these are a form of soft DRM kinda like how hacked versions of original Spyro the Dragon were technically playable but your progress would constantly be lost or weird visual bugs would happen to try to deter you from continuing. Soul Silver had this so I'm reserving judgement until the game officially launches.

Yeah I hope this gets fixed soon https://clips.twitch.tv/ConcernedCautiousEyeballDansGame

Ambaire
Sep 4, 2009

by Shine
Oven Wrangler

Borsche69 posted:

I'm excited for the next 30 pages of people woddling into the thread asking this exact same question and rehashing the exact same posts because they can't be assed to look anything up.

This is a great post that summarizes everything that people might not like about the new versions, complete with a lot of video proof and comparisons:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dv438w/complete_list_of_all_problems_known_so_far_in/

I read that post and some of those problems seem atrocious, like the popin. Someone was theorizing that they were originally developing the game for the 3DS with a topdown view and then had to rush to convert it to a 3D thing and that's why it's all over the place. Not sure how plausible that is but it seems like a good reason.

My only point of comparison is BotW and if that post is accurate, S&S looks like poo poo comparatively.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Ambaire posted:

I read that post and some of those problems seem atrocious, like the popin. Someone was theorizing that they were originally developing the game for the 3DS with a topdown view and then had to rush to convert it to a 3D thing and that's why it's all over the place. Not sure how plausible that is but it seems like a good reason.

My only point of comparison is BotW and if that post is accurate, S&S looks like poo poo comparatively.

A top down view like in Sun and Moon?

Ambaire
Sep 4, 2009

by Shine
Oven Wrangler

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

A top down view like in Sun and Moon?

this post here

op posted:

Ishihara thought the Switch was going to fail, so he probably thought they should just make another Pokemon game for the 3DS instead.

That would explain why the game looks like a slightly upscaled 3DS game instead of a high quality Switch game.

The Pokemon games usually looked pretty good for whatever system they were on, SW/SH look like great 3ds games, but look terrible on the Switch.

How characters appear would make sense on the 3ds with it being weaker and having a smaller screen size, which would help cover it up.

They scaled the Pokemon correctly in let's go, which was made for the Switch, while the 3ds games didn't scale the Pokemon correctly, just like in SW/SH.

Some moves cause the player character to disappear, which happened on the 3ds. They just moved the camera on the 3ds to hide it, the Switch being larger messed up the camera transition and they didn't feel like fixing it.

The sudden decision to cut the Pokemon probably happened when porting the game to the Switch, where they broke their importer, like that other post says.

It's weird they removed Pokemon following you when they had it working in Let's Go, most likely because the 3DS couldn't handle it and they didn't have time to add it in when porting to the Switch.

You should skip SW/SH and wait for the next ones, they will be made for the Switch from the start.

top rated comment posted:

Agreed. My theory has been they originally targeted 3DS or perhaps both, and only pivoted towards Switch alone after the successful release (or maybe just preorder numbers) of Let's Go, which demonstrated that Switch was a viable platform for Pokemon. I think it explains a lot, such as

>why these games seem so incredibly rushed across the board even though GF have said they had a standard 3-year development cycle.

>the insane popin and apparent lack of LOD support for certain assets like buildings. My guess is the game was initially intended to primarily have a top-down camera like S&M for better performance on the 3DS. After deciding to move to Switch, they realized they could probably afford to have more dynamic camera angles that show more distant objects. Then they were confronted with pop-in/LOD issues that they've never had to deal with before, and didn't have time to figure out. Hence, you can see buildings in full detail from a mile away, but any interactable characters or even berry trees pop into existence 20 feet away.

>why the dex cut happened in the first place. Upgrading the textures of ~900 Pokemon and alt forms in 3 years shouldn't have been a problem, but upgrading almost all textures in an entire game in 1 year might have actually posed a challenge. (Note: the leads are already playing coy when asked about reversing the dex cut in a SwSh revisit/third version.)

>why the Wild Area in particular feels completely sloppy and rushed. I think it's distinctly plausible that it was added after the decision to target Switch, maybe to make the game seem a little more "Switch-like".

>why they felt like it was fine to recycle 3DS overworld assets in the first place. Recycling the Pokemon models isn't that big of a deal 'cause they're pretty solid, but the character models and the like are sloppy as hell. If the game was on 3DS, it wouldn't have been nearly as noticeable.

>EDIT: also, why the audio quality (to my ears at least) seems to be exactly in line with the 3DS games', and how they're still cutting corners with [what sounds to my ears like] the same cheapo virtual instrumentation. All of that's fine on 3DS because the 3DS speakers were so feeble, and most players wouldn't tell the difference. On the Switch or a TV, the quality is notably poor.

Of course, this doesn't explain everything. Forcing the Exp Share and removing the GTS are pretty clearly just acts of spite.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

the idea that they'd make let's go for the switch and then go back to the 3ds makes no sense

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Reddit is trash.

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd
you know, the games being a 3DS port does explain a lot of the issues.

in light of that, it makes the price increase seem a little egregious, but seeing as I buy like, 4 big games a year, the price doesn't bother me

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Reddit is trash.

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

This is, uh, huh. Very huh.

TOMMY PROVOLONE
Jul 30, 2014

I am the sun. The moon.


LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Reddit is trash.

Yeah all the comments in that linked thread are filled with some of the most melodramatic comments I've seen pertaining to a video game.

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd
okay, this is :3:
https://twitter.com/OoCPokemon/status/1194346649159688193?s=20

Borsche69
May 8, 2014

TOMMY PROVOLONE posted:

Yeah all the comments in that linked thread are filled with some of the most melodramatic comments I've seen pertaining to a video game.

Don't read the comments, the main post by itself is a good summary.

qnqnx
Nov 14, 2010


What I have found so far is that this particular streamer is using item cheats. Though no idea how that is affecting the battles because it shouldn't at all.
Here's another weird one: https://www.twitch.tv/fireburnsslowly/clip/TiredObliviousShieldKippa

Yolomancer
Aug 9, 2014

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
So it appears Gamefreak straight up lied and they've re-used the models from SM in SwSh:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dvimmr/leak_confirmed_models_are_reused/

If you don't want to go to Reddit, white is SwSh, black is SM:





Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

This is, uh, huh. Very huh.

Not gonna discourage you from buying but I really think people who want the game should step back and give it some time to settle because it's looking like it needs a massive amount of patches from the word go.

Lacrosse
Jun 16, 2010

>:V


qnqnx posted:

What I have found so far is that this particular streamer is using item cheats. Though no idea how that is affecting the battles because it shouldn't at all.
Here's another weird one: https://www.twitch.tv/fireburnsslowly/clip/TiredObliviousShieldKippa

Yeah, see those kinds of bugs look like they could be caused by the 'soft DRM' I was talking about. Here's the explaination of the Playstation's DRM in regards to Spyro: Year of the Dragon (correction from earlier, I thought it was Original Spyro) if anyone is interested in that sort of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYSeXLr5sY

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

Yolomancer posted:

So it appears Gamefreak straight up lied and they've re-used the models from SM in SwSh:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dvimmr/leak_confirmed_models_are_reused/

If you don't want to go to Reddit, white is SwSh, black is SM:







Looks like, yeah, same models. A few were retouched a bit, like removing redundant triangles or smoothing out some parts, but for the vast majority it is the same models.

I'm sure the texturing is different, but yeah.

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

qnqnx posted:

What I have found so far is that this particular streamer is using item cheats. Though no idea how that is affecting the battles because it shouldn't at all.
Here's another weird one: https://www.twitch.tv/fireburnsslowly/clip/TiredObliviousShieldKippa
from what I can tell, it seems like gamefreak realized their mistake of making ninetales mediocre back in gen 2, and decided that now was the time to turn it into an unkillable god

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Yolomancer posted:

So it appears Gamefreak straight up lied and they've re-used the models from SM in SwSh:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dvimmr/leak_confirmed_models_are_reused/

If you don't want to go to Reddit, white is SwSh, black is SM:







No they haven't lied, they have never claimed these are brand new models. It makes no sense to make new models anyway, they just need new textures.

Yolomancer
Aug 9, 2014

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

RatHat posted:

No they haven't lied, they have never claimed these are brand new models. It makes no sense to make new models anyway, they just need new textures.

GAME FREAK CONFIRMS MODELS IN 'POKÉMON SWORD AND SHIELD' AREN'T REUSED

https://www.newsweek.com/pokemon-sword-shield-models-controversy-1449299

quote:

There's a divide in the Pokémon community. Many fans are unhappy by Game Freak's decision not to include every single Pokémon in the Galar region for the upcoming Sword and Shield release this fall. Fueling this divide are fans who are not satisfied with the developer's reasons for this controversial decision.

Many feel Game Freak is simply being lazy by not including every Pokémon in Sword and Shield, which spawned a rumor that the developers reused models from older games. However, GameFreak's Junichi Masuda and Shigeru Ohmori refuted this in a month-old Famitsu interview - recently reported on by Polygon.

Masuda and Ohmori told Famitsu that they rebuilt every model for Pokémon Sword and Shield.

Yolomancer
Aug 9, 2014

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
And here is another article:

https://au.ign.com/articles/2019/07/14/pokemon-sword-and-shield-arent-recycling-3d-models-game-freak-confirms

Pokemon Sword and Shield Aren't Recycling 3D Models, Game Freak Confirms

quote:

Pokemon developer Game Freak has been battling the ire of fans ever since they announced that Pokemon Sword and Pokemon Shield wouldn’t let you put all previous Pokemon in the games’ Pokedex. The fallout from that decision sparked another rumor that Game Freak has been using recycled 3D models of what older Pokemon will be available in order to cut down on production costs. However, a recent interview with Famitsu, originally reported on by Polygon, surfaced on social media and Reddit, disputing the rumor.

The month-old interview features Game Freak’s Junichi Masuda and Shigeru Ohmori saying that Game Freak has in fact been creating new models for Pokemon from scratch. The pair added that importing all 809 (at the time) previous Pokemon into Pokemon Sun and Moon was difficult.
According to Masuda and Ohmori, bringing Pokemon into the Switch’s improved 3D graphics (compared to the 3DS titles) would have been considerably more difficult than importing them into another 3DS game.

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?
They didn't say they remade every model, but they basically used Business PR Talk to imply they did or at least reworked them a lot, and on top of that it was in Japanese, so that's why a ton of places came to that translation.

Basically they were trying to half lie, which got translated into blatant lies.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


I'm more and more glad the Animal Crossing team is taking their time. Sucks Game Freak didn't seem to adopt a "we want to do this right" mindset with SwSh.

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

Looks like, yeah, same models. A few were retouched a bit, like removing redundant triangles or smoothing out some parts, but for the vast majority it is the same models.

I'm sure the texturing is different, but yeah.

A friend was saying people have been unwrapping the textures and finding those identical as well, but I don't exactly have a source, so take that with a grain of salt till someone posts proof. :v:

But I can't say I have a ton of faith.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Yolomancer posted:

GAME FREAK CONFIRMS MODELS IN 'POKÉMON SWORD AND SHIELD' AREN'T REUSED

https://www.newsweek.com/pokemon-sword-shield-models-controversy-1449299

Gaming journalism is the worst. Here's the translation of that interview

"Reddit posted:

– With the shift to the Switch, the amount of time needed to make the graphics more beautiful and the animations more lively has increased
– Another aspect is the fact that the Pokemon series has reached over 1,000 Pokemon (including form changes)
– Because of this, apart from the graphics, balancing for new Pokemon with new abilities has become very hard
– This is the reason behind the decision this time, and they have judged that it will be hard for all the Pokemon to appear, even in titles going forward
– This was a decision that had to be made sooner or later, Masuda said
– Even in Pokemon Sun/Moon, bringing in every Pokemon was something barely manageable
With Pokemon Sword/Shield and the need to redo models, they had to make a decision
– Ohmori says that despite this, the Wild Areas and story will have quite a bit of content to make up for it
– Regarding whether Pokemon may be added in future updates, this is currently uncertain
– Even if not in Pokemon Sword/Shield, Game Freak plans on making those Pokemon shine in future titles going forward, via Pokemon Home
– They do not want the players’ past Pokemon to feel worthless
– Inspecting the option of reusing Pokemon receiving new graphics through Sword/Shield in titles going forward
– With the inclusion of gimmicks like Mega Evolution and Dynamax that affect all Pokemon, this would mean even more graphics production and balancing, so making it happen would be hard
– It’s not about adding more Pokemon in as they receive graphical upgrades, but rather a change towards bringing in Pokemon from Pokemon Home that fit the game
– The reason behind the name Pokemon Home, is that it is a place to return to
– Bringing Pokemon out to games going forward, is like bringing it on a trip
– In terms of the feelings of the Pokemon, says Masuda, it’s like them saying, “This region is cold, so I’ll be staying at home”
– Game Freak are thinking of adding some gameplay elements to Pokemon Home
– Masuda has the concept of bringing Pokemon out to even the spinoff titles from Pokemon Home in mind, and that this will be considered in the future as well

All they said is they have to "redo" the models, which could very well mean just texturing and animations. The translation could be off but this translation is the one those news sites are using so...

RatHat fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Nov 13, 2019

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

Oxyclean posted:

I'm more and more glad the Animal Crossing team is taking their time. Sucks Game Freak didn't seem to adopt a "we want to do this right" mindset with SwSh.

they didn't really have the luxury of that option with stuff like the anime and merchandise already being planned around early November 2019

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

This poo poo is so tedious. Comparing triangle count? Really?

It'll be interesting to see what the day 1 patch does.

Yolomancer
Aug 9, 2014

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

RatHat posted:

Gaming journalism is the worst. Here's the translation of that interview


All they said is they have to "redo" the models, which could very well mean just texturing and animations.

In the case of Noibat all they did was use the sub-divide tool on Noibat's face, which can be done in Blender by clicking one button.

Other than that the model is 1:1, polygon for polygon, identical.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Yolomancer posted:

In the case of Noibat all they did was use the sub-divide tool on Noibat's face, which can be done in Blender by clicking one button.

Other than that the model is 1:1, polygon for polygon, identical.

Ok? I wasn't denying that they were the same models.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

mutata posted:

This poo poo is so tedious. Comparing triangle count? Really?

It'll be interesting to see what the day 1 patch does.

there's gonna be a day one patch?

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Both those articles are rehashing a Porygon article, which is based on a reddit post, which is in turn based on some nintendo fansite article that leads to a dead link to a Siliconera summary.

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RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Both those articles are rehashing a Porygon article, which is based on a reddit post, which is in turn based on some nintendo fansite article that leads to a dead link to a Siliconera summary.

Yep that's games journalism. I don't doubt that the interview was real though.

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