|
Looking like Canyonlands may be the winner here. Thanks for replying, friends.
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 00:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 08:39 |
|
|
Go check out the Joint Trail in Canyonlands, it's awesome and you won't see another soul.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 03:29
|
|
|
I'm going through Zion/Arches/Canyonlands in a few weeks too. Hopefully it won't be too cold.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:I'm going through Zion/Arches/Canyonlands in a few weeks too. Hopefully it won't be too cold. It'll be fine, I did it in late November several years ago and didn't need a coat. Fall colors in Zion are amazing. Consider a side trip to natural bridges monument. The arches aren't world class draws like Arches NP but it's still super awesome and has almost no one there. It's also smack in the middle of the darkest night skies in the US so it's great for stargazing too. If you're not afraid of heights drive up route 261. It has an absolutely bonkers climb up a mesa with some great views.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 04:12
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:I'm going through Zion/Arches/Canyonlands in a few weeks too. Hopefully it won't be too cold. In January Zion was significantly colder than Moab and Canyonlands. Most Zion trails were sheets of ice and we used our YakTrax every day. The higher roads were closed with snow. Obviously it probably won't be that bad yet, but I wouldn't lump Zion (and Bryce) into the same weather category as Moab area. That being said it was mostly really cold at night. I loved Utah in the winter and I'm already hoping to go again. Also Capitol Reef was really nice and completely empty. It was an unplanned stop due to the pass being snowed over, but I'm glad we ended up spending a day there. incogneato fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Oct 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 05:01
|
|
|
I'm going with the family and my younger kids so we'll be doing day hikes in the park and staying the night back at our hotel so I'm not too worried about nighttime temps. We're doing two days in Zion and two days in Moab for Arches/Canyonlands. On the trip from Zion to Moab we're planning on stopping by Horshoe Bend and Monument Valley. I've heard Arches is kinda "meh" so I'm open to exploring other areas within a day's drive of our home base of Moab.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 05:13
|
|
|
Also check out Dead Horse Point State Park.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2019 05:39
|
|
|
If you're already in Moab Arches is absolutely worth the stop, at least to do the Delicate Arch hike in the late afternoon/sunset time. A lot of it is drivable and short hops out of the car, so you can go from lunch to sunset and see a lot. Canyonlands is just massive, at least see Mesa Arch (sunrise or sunset) and Grand View/White Rim overlooks. The park brochures do a great job of highlighting the trails by distance and intensity so pick whatever your family can handle and if you're not used to elevation adjust accordingly. I would also urge choosing Bryce over Monument Valley, the scenic routes that way would be a way better drive and Bryce is wholly unique and worth it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2019 20:28
|
|
|
We did Bryce on our last trip out to Zion, it was great!
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2019 20:47
|
|
|
So something I've been wanting to do is develop my ability to do back country navigation. I mostly just stick to pretty established trails and would like to do some more adventurous hikes. Of the people I go hiking with, I'm the one whose most keen, so I'm not getting those skills here. I was curious if anyone had any good online resources for this sort of thing? Youtube vids or whatever. I'll find a place that offers navigation courses (I'm not going to watch a video and then wander off into the bush to die) but was thinking it would be nice to become a bit more familiar with the theory before I do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 09:44
|
|
|
edit: Not online, but Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills has a pretty good navigation chapter. I just pulled off the shelf to check, after however many years. I forgot how information dense that thing is. waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Nov 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 14:58
|
|
|
There's various orienteering clubs about that do courses/races. In the US it's https://orienteeringusa.org/, in UK https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/. They usually offer classes prior to the events and structure it in a way that's both fun and challenging. I should brush up on my compass work, I tend to just rely on reading the terrain on the map and use that. A bit more challenging when there isn't much terrain to work off of.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 15:03
|
|
|
Yooper posted:There's various orienteering clubs about that do courses/races. In the US it's https://orienteeringusa.org/, in UK https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/. They usually offer classes prior to the events and structure it in a way that's both fun and challenging. I should brush up on my compass work, I tend to just rely on reading the terrain on the map and use that. A bit more challenging when there isn't much terrain to work off of. I do a lot of orienteering but I don't think it's the most efficient way to learn skills for backcountry navigation. I tend to use marked features pretty often and it's hard to force yourself to just use topography when you're competing for time. Best thing to do is just get yourself out there in a situation where you can just go in one cardinal direction and hit the road where your car is parked if you're terribly lost.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 15:58
|
|
|
Different terrains in different locales also plays a huge role in being able to navigate. Up in the mountains above the treeline its much easier to triangulate your location and plot a course, take a bearing. When you're in some featureless plain or surrounded by trees in a forest its a whole lot more difficult. Best thing I did to learn was to bring my compass along with me and a topo map and just practice, practice, practice. There are a lot of good YouTube videos out there. Andrew Skurka has a relatively short one that is good at explaining the basics.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 16:22
|
|
|
You can also get an app like us topo maps or something to use as a backup when you're getting started. Try to navigate with just map and compass, but if you really get lost pop open the app and get your actual gps location. (Download maps for offline use ahead of time!) That's my general approach to navigation when I'm doing unmarked approach hikes for climbs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 16:53
|
|
|
To extend the comments about terrain, backcountry navigation involves route finding so knowing how to read a map is not enough. You also need to be able to ascertain which routes are viable for travel. For example, ridge travel may be "out of the way" but faster than a direct route with too much descent/ascent. Some approaches may be unsafe or too steep. In field practice is best because the usual problem is "well there's this 50ft deep line of thorns, now what".
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 19:58
|
|
|
I would see if there are any courses offered. Practice in the field is key but you don't want to be poo poo out of luck lost when you do eventually gently caress up. Way back in highschool I took outdoor education classes and still use the skills I learned when I go into the backcountry.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 20:31
|
|
|
Ruptured Yakety Sax posted:So something I've been wanting to do is develop my ability to do back country navigation. I mostly just stick to pretty established trails and would like to do some more adventurous hikes. Of the people I go hiking with, I'm the one whose most keen, so I'm not getting those skills here. Our lord and savior Andrew Skurka has two good videos on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWaR_hWqm4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGX8DB_3OzQ Just start small. Go hiking on an established trail and pick a destination somewhere on the map you need to off-trail to get to a short ways. 1-2 miles. Make your way there, then head back to the trail. This will build your confidence up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 21:40
|
|
|
Nah, jump into the deep end. Have someone air drop you into Denali and you gotta get to the lodge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 21:46
|
|
|
Speaking of which, I've been watching a lot of "I shouldn't be alive" since its on Amazon Prime video. Some of these stories are shocking how easily people get hosed. Just watched one where a couple with almost no hiking experience got lost on San Jacinto, were completely unprepared even for a guided day hike, and came across the remnants of a guy who got lost in the exact same place and died. They were the exact definition of why you shouldn't veer off trail. Personally, I am also considering taking an orienteering course because I know the basics but relearning and practicing would probably be beneficial. I dont tend to do a lot of off trail stuff but in the event of being lost ... it would be pretty helpful.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
Verman posted:and came across the remnants of a guy who got lost in the exact same place and died. They were the exact definition of why you shouldn't veer off trail. What show is that? I'd like to know that story.  Edit : This one? Also who's the goon in the water?
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 22:58
|
|
|
Wonderful, thanks for all the advice. As mentioned, yeah I'll deffo do an actual navigation class as well as checking out some stuff online. Is anyone posting here from Melbourne who has done one they could recommend?
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 23:15
|
|
|
Verman posted:Just watched one where a couple with almost no hiking experience got lost on San Jacinto, were completely unprepared even for a guided day hike, and came across the remnants of a guy who got lost in the exact same place and died. It's fun to be out on a casual day hike with my 50L stuffed with snacks, a bunch of water, some layers, and wayyyyy too much camera gear and walking past some dorks in flipflops with a 16 oz water bottle in one hand. I look at them like they're crazy and they look at me like they're crazy. I could very well be crazy but at least I'll be alive and crazy. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
An actual course also knows where to take you. The biggest problem with personally practicing orienteering is finding a shot where you don't end up full of ball shot. A common orienteering task is "go north until you hit the road, your distance from target is your score". Soooo you need to find a road that basically runs east--west, is accessible, legal, and affords the correct navigation obstacles. By the time you find the right combination, you're bored and playing video games. If I want to practice compass work, anymore I just go to large grassy parks, like those quadruple-soccer-field things and do error of closure stuff. For trail stuff, go someplace with 45 different intersecting paths and try to figure out where to go. As an honest to goodness "trick", one that I'm amazed people don't do, is the "backsight". IE, how often do you turn around while hiking so you'll recognize where you came from? If I take a new route, I always turn around a bit after the junction and look backwards. When I've asked hiking buddies how to get back and they pull out their phone, oh dear. But yeah, backcountry, always take the GPS.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2019 23:50
|
|
|
Yooper posted:What show is that? I'd like to know that story. Lol yes that is the episode. I feel like I watch these shows not necessarily because they're entertaining but because I'm always genuinely curious as to how they get into these scenarios and how they got out. The entire time I'm basically critiquing/comparing what I would have done differently. Some of these people are absolute badasses who just got caught in a bad situation or made an easy mistake and anybody else would have died because they didn't have the mental fortitude to keep pushing on. Others are loving dumb and are clear examples of darwinism at its best thinking they're going to die having to spend one night in mediocre conditions within a half mile of a paved trail they wandered off of. My favorite part of that episode was the end where *spoiler alert* they survive and it just says they broke up shortly after. I actually wanted to hear more about the old guy. The couple annoyed me from the start. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:As an honest to goodness "trick", one that I'm amazed people don't do, is the "backsight". IE, how often do you turn around while hiking so you'll recognize where you came from? If I take a new route, I always turn around a bit after the junction and look backwards. This is HUUUUGE for me personally. When I moved to the northwest and started hiking more, I realized on my return hike that a lot of the area looked "new" and there were only a few features that would stand out. Everything looked familiar and nothing looked familiar, especially in places with thick forest where distinguishing features aren't easily spotted. Turning around once in a while, especially when you break or cross a stream can help a ton. The other thing I started doing was looking at a map prior to my hike to understand the topography to get a preview of what I was going to be doing and what the surrounding area looks like. Just knowing simple things like "the hike goes up this valley, which brings you straight back to the highway", "this ridge goes east west and the highway is south", "if you get to the river, you went too far north" etc. In general, familiarizing yourself with the area beforehand really helps, especially in something like google earth where you get a 3d visualization. Verman fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Nov 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2019 00:17
|
|
|
Verman posted:My favorite part of that episode was the end where *spoiler alert* they survive and it just says they broke up shortly after. I actually wanted to hear more about the old guy. The couple annoyed me from the start. Same here! I watched it long enough to hear the hikers name, googled it, and found a good article. Once I had that I'd had enough of the lost financial advisor. https://www.backpacker.com/trips/lost-found
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2019 00:42
|
|
|
Dangerllama posted:edit: Not online, but Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills has a pretty good navigation chapter. It is an amazing book e. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:For trail stuff, go someplace with 45 different intersecting paths and try to figure out where to go. As an honest to goodness "trick", one that I'm amazed people don't do, is the "backsight". IE, how often do you turn around while hiking so you'll recognize where you came from? If I take a new route, I always turn around a bit after the junction and look backwards. When I've asked hiking buddies how to get back and they pull out their phone, oh dear. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:But yeah, backcountry, always take the GPS. I always go with GPS (now with digital topo maps preinstalled, it's almost like cheating), paper topo, Garmin inReach, and Brunton compass. Losing a student is way too much paperwork to ever let happen. Of course I'm old enough that I learned place finding pre GPS, but it is something everyone can learn with practice, assuming you aren't just deep in a forest. Route finding is more difficult IMO, but learning how to read a topo map is step number one. Fortunately there are loads of mapped trails even in the back country these days Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Nov 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2019 06:03
|
|
|
That mountaineering book looks really cool and I think I’m going to get it even though I don’t mountaineer. Maybe it’ll make me want to.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2019 16:42
|
|
|
E: forums are being weird
Rolo fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Nov 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2019 17:50
|
|
|
Rolo posted:That mountaineering book looks really cool and I think I’m going to get it even though I don’t mountaineer. Maybe it’ll make me want to. On the topic of getting into backcountry hiking..any hiker who plans to start going into more serious but still "non-technical" terrain would nonetheless be well served by developing some basic technical skills early on, rather than the usual procedure of accidentally getting into super sketchy situations and learning the hard way. Like if you plan to do off-trail passes or peaks that involve easy but exposed rock scrambling, you'll be a lot safer and more comfortable if you also get some basic rock climbing experience or training. Similarly, anyone planning backcountry travel over snow in steep terrain would really benefit from taking a basic avalanche course and having some familiarity with ice axe / crampon use. Really basic trad climbing skills can be used to protect otherwise sketchy parts of many scrambles with minimal gear, and can just make the whole experience a lot safer and more fun. Plus, developing these kinds of basic skills opens up a whole lot of routes and locations that would otherwise be closed off to you, even if you never get into mountaineering or technical climbing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2019 20:39
|
|
|
Morbus posted:On the topic of getting into backcountry hiking..any hiker who plans to start going into more serious but still "non-technical" terrain would nonetheless be well served by developing some basic technical skills early on, rather than the usual procedure of accidentally getting into super sketchy situations and learning the hard way. ... I did a scuba certification and while I never ended up doing scuba (I never reached a good comfort level), I am still using a lot of the skills when I am snorkeling (pretty often) and people often think I am a pro when they see me (I am not). Same goes for mountaineering/hiking.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Any go-to recommendations for a good shell layer that is actually waterproof / windproof and relatively sturdy? If possible I'd love one with a hood, a full-zip collar that can be popped up to cover my neck, and a couple deep pockets / pouches. This is like a pretty much perfect example of what I'm looking for but it's $2,000 and lol I'm poor. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 17:46
|
|
|
I have a north face apex flex that I'm content with. The neck area isn't exactly like you specify (it zips up to the chin, thought it's not really a collar, it's part of the hood) but it has everything else you want.. only two pockets but they're enormous. I can fit my dslr camera with a lens into one pocket. It's not ultralight, it's heavy as hell and takes up an enormous amount of space in a backpack. But it's worth considering. You'll stay dry (at least until you start sweating) and with a midlayer I've been comfortable into single digit temperatures (fahrenheit).
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 18:09
|
|
|
Grizzled Patriarch posted:Any go-to recommendations for a good shell layer that is actually waterproof / windproof and relatively sturdy? If possible I'd love one with a hood, a full-zip collar that can be popped up to cover my neck, and a couple deep pockets / pouches. I guess the question is what you're using it for. Any true raincoat from the usual outdoor brands (REI, OR, Paragonia, North Face, etc) is going to be waterproof and windproof. Many collars in my experience can be zipped up high enough to block wind. Pouches aren't common, though. A raincoat + adequate midlayers and baselayers have always been plenty fine for me in some pretty bad weather. But if by "relatively sturdy" you mean you'll be doing physical labor or something else beyond usual outdoors activities, I'm less knowledgeable about that. But otherwise as long as you don't get the ultralight versions of the above jackets, they should hold up fine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 18:23
|
|
|
A Marmot Precip is excellent and I'd recommend it to anyone. It runs at between $60-$100. There's also the REI Rainier, which is comparable and often dips a little lower (they have some in orange for only $45). And the cheapest would be something like the REI Groundbreaker, which is $35-$50 and is about as no-frills as you're likely to find while staying dry.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 18:25
|
|
|
incogneato posted:I guess the question is what you're using it for. Any true raincoat from the usual outdoor brands (REI, OR, Paragonia, North Face, etc) is going to be waterproof and windproof. Many collars in my experience can be zipped up high enough to block wind. Pouches aren't common, though. Yeah, I just want to avoid anything ultralight or made with cheap materials, I'm looking for kind of an all-purpose jacket that I can bring along whether I'm hiking, rappelling, caving / canyoning, etc. Nothing too out of the ordinary but it has to be able to put up with a little abuse / handle getting scraped against rocks and stuff occasionally. I like to wear as few layers as I can get away with because I hate feeling like my range of motion is restricted at all, so even a thin lining is fine. The pouches aren't a deal-breaker I guess but I like them for having quicker access to stuff like cameras / phone / tools and I find them easier to use and more convenient than zippered pockets, especially when I've got gloves on. A collar is nice just for times when I need to stay warm but don't want to deal with any potential complications from using a scarf - had one almost get tangled the first time I did some cold-weather rappelling and while nothing bad happened I just kinda like having fewer things to remember to pack / think about while I'm out and about if I can help it. I'm definitely working in a low-budget range so I know it's probably impossible to get every feature I'd like. A few of the suggestions so far look promising, so thanks for those guys!
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
While I don't know the weather two Thursdays out, I already told two people that I might OptOutside. Anyone else blowing off the turkeys and their turkey, or will it just be me and the fuzzy trees? Edit: Oh right, I have three standing offers. And none of them with cute guys. I guess I'm just taking the lazy approach by not choosing. Edit: It's my secret plan to have the mountains to myself. PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 23:54
|
|
|
PhantomOfTheCopier posted:While I don't know the weather two Thursdays out, I already told two people that I might OptOutside. Anyone else blowing off the turkeys and their turkey, or will it just be me and the fuzzy trees? It'll definitely be just you if you do it Thursday, since it appears that the event takes place on Friday.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2019 23:57
|
|
|
PhantomOfTheCopier posted:While I don't know the weather two Thursdays out, I already told two people that I might OptOutside. Anyone else blowing off the turkeys and their turkey, or will it just be me and the fuzzy trees? I fuckin wish. But this is my last Black Friday in retail so next year I definitely will. Depending on my weekend schedule I may get a short hike in around Mt. Laguna here in San Diego.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 00:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 08:39 |
|
|
Did my tour of Utah last week, thanks for the suggestions everyone, it was an amazing trip. Here's my fav cell phone shot from Zion  (click for big)
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2019 03:01
|
|