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There is absolutely something illegal in those tax returns, it just might not be very politically damaging.
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Acebuckeye13 posted:It's actually a terrible quality to have in a legislator because doing anything in an elected body requires wheeling and dealing with people you have disagreements with. Like, the Freedom Caucus may be ideologically pure, but what have they actually managed to accomplish beyond preventing the Republican caucus from doing anything? Meanwhile, LBJ was constantly working with terrible people (And was pretty terrible himself in many ways) and did more for the poor and disenfranchised in this country than almost any other elected official before or since. The Freedom Caucus was created and in turn created much of the political landscape of today. With no incentive to accomplish anything, they created problems for themselves to solve that charge up their base so they could preserve their jobs. This in turn radicalized many republicans. So in terms of policy? They didn't accomplish much. But they were still loud and destructive to the social and legal fabric of the US. It's what happens when districts are gerrymandered. If a republican as all but guaranteed to win and due to slashing pork spending which normally allowed them to bring wins home, there was no need to moderate themselves or to cooperate. Most incentives to do so have been obliterated. They are nothing before LBJ. LBJ on the other hand started Vietnam where many young men were drafted, basically enslaved, to go fight people on the other side of the world in what had been a colonial war originally waged by and then abandoned by the French. Vietnam was a horror show, but what sticks out most was the after action report of The Massacre of My Lai. It was horrifying in the extreme. I'll give you some examples from what I remember off the top of my head. If you're stressed or depressed, I don't suggest reading below. This is just what I remember.  Be aware that before you click on this link for a clearer story, that there are shitloads of dead bodies as there were combat photographers embedded in the platoons. I have edited those out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre Are you really loving sure? Okay then. On the morning of 16 March at 7:30 a.m., around 100 soldiers from Charlie Company led by Medina, following a short artillery and helicopter gunship barrage, landed in helicopters at Sơn Mỹ, a patchwork of settlements, rice paddies, irrigation ditches, dikes, and dirt roads, connecting an assortment of hamlets and sub-hamlets. The largest among them were the hamlets Mỹ Lai, Cổ Lũy, Mỹ Khê, and Tu Cung.[30]:1–2 Although the GIs were not fired upon after landing, they still suspected there were VC guerrillas hiding underground or in the huts. Confirming their suspicions, the gunships engaged several armed enemies in a vicinity of Mỹ Lai; later, one weapon was retrieved from the site.[31] According to the operational plan, 1st Platoon led by Second Lieutenant (2LT) William Calley and 2nd Platoon led by 2LT Stephen Brooks entered the hamlet of Tu Cung in line formation at 08:00, while the 3rd Platoon commanded by 2LT Jeffrey U. Lacross[32][33] and Captain Medina's command post remained outside. On approach, both platoons fired at people they saw in the rice fields and in the brush.[34] The villagers, who were getting ready for a market day, at first did not panic or run away, as they were herded into the hamlet's commons. Harry Stanley, a machine gunner from Charlie Company, said during the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Division inquiry that the killings started without warning. He first observed a member of 1st Platoon strike a Vietnamese man with a bayonet. Then, the same trooper pushed another villager into a well and threw a grenade in the well. Next, he saw fifteen or twenty people, mainly women and children, kneeling around a temple with burning incense. They were praying and crying. They were all killed by shots to the head.[35] Most of the killings occurred in the southern part of Tu Cung, a sub-hamlet of Xom Lang, which was a home to 700 residents.[36] Xom Lang was erroneously marked on the U.S. military operational maps of Quảng Ngãi Province as Mỹ Lai. A large group of approximately 70–80 villagers was rounded up by 1st Platoon in Xom Lang and led to an irrigation ditch east of the settlement. All detainees were pushed into the ditch and then killed after repeated orders issued by Calley, who was also shooting. PFC Paul Meadlo testified that he expended several M16 rifle magazines. He recollected that women were allegedly saying "No VC" and were trying to shield their children.[35] He remembered that he was shooting into women with babies in their hands, since he was convinced at that time that they were all booby-trapped with grenades and were poised to attack.[37] On another occasion during the security sweep of My Lai, Meadlo again fired into civilians side-by-side with Lieutenant Calley.[38] PFC Dennis Konti, a witness for the prosecution,[39] told of one especially gruesome episode during the shooting, "A lot of women had thrown themselves on top of the children to protect them, and the children were alive at first. Then, the children who were old enough to walk got up and Calley began to shoot the children".[40] Other 1st Platoon members testified that many of the deaths of individual Vietnamese men, women and children occurred inside Mỹ Lai during the security sweep. Livestock was shot as well.[41] When PFC Michael Bernhardt entered the subhamlet of Xom Lang, the massacre was underway: "I walked up and saw these guys doing strange things ... Setting fire to the hootches and huts and waiting for people to come out and then shooting them ... going into the hootches and shooting them up ... gathering people in groups and shooting them ... As I walked in you could see piles of people all through the village ... all over. They were gathered up into large groups. I saw them shoot an M79 grenade launcher into a group of people who were still alive. But it was mostly done with a machine gun. They were shooting women and children just like anybody else. We met no resistance and I only saw three captured weapons. We had no casualties. It was just like any other Vietnamese village – old papa-sans, women and kids. As a matter of fact, I don't remember seeing one military-age male in the entire place, dead or alive".[42] One group of 20–50 villagers was herded south of Xom Lang and killed on a dirt road. According to Ronald Haeberle's eyewitness account of the massacre, in one instance, "There were some South Vietnamese people, maybe fifteen of them, women and children included, walking on a dirt road maybe 100 yards [90 m] away. All of a sudden the GIs just opened up with M16s. Beside the M16 fire, they were shooting at the people with M79 grenade launchers ... I couldn't believe what I was seeing".[43] Calley testified that he heard the shooting and arrived on the scene. He observed his men firing into a ditch with Vietnamese people inside and he then started shooting, with an M16, from a distance of 5 feet (1.5 m). Then, a helicopter landed on the other side of the ditch and a pilot asked Calley if he could provide any medical assistance to the wounded civilians in Mỹ Lai; Calley admitted replying that a hand grenade was the only available means that he had for their evacuation. After that, around 11:00, Medina radioed to cease fire and the 1st Platoon took a lunch break.[44] Members of 2nd platoon killed at least 60–70 Vietnamese, as they swept through the northern half of Mỹ Lai and through Binh Tay, a small sub-hamlet about 400 metres (1,300 ft) north of Mỹ Lai.[5] The platoon suffered one dead and seven wounded by mines and booby traps. After the initial sweeps by 1st and 2nd platoons, 3rd Platoon was dispatched to deal with any "remaining resistance". 3rd platoon, which stayed in reserve, also reportedly rounded up and killed a group of seven to twelve women and children.[5] Since Charlie Company had not met any enemy opposition at Mỹ Lai and did not request back-up, Bravo Company, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment of TF Barker was transported by air between 08:15 and 08:30 3 km (2 mi) away. It attacked the subhamlet My Hoi of the hamlet known as Cổ Lũy, which was mapped by the Army as Mỹ Khê. During this operation, between 60 and 155 people, including women and children, were killed.[45] Over the next day, both companies were involved in additional burning and destruction of dwellings, as well as mistreatment of Vietnamese detainees. While some soldiers of Charlie Company did not participate in the crimes, they neither openly protested nor complained later to their superiors.[46] William Thomas Allison, a professor of Military History at Georgia Southern University, wrote, "By midmorning, members of Charlie Company had killed hundreds of civilians and raped or assaulted countless women and young girls. They encountered no enemy fire and found no weapons in My Lai itself".[47] So the wikipedia article doesn't get into the descriptions of the bloodshed and murder and burning and rape. I delved deep into that poo poo about a year ago and I heard way more. Stories that would chill you from the mouths of the murderers and rapists. This is the sanitized version of what happens when the rules of war are not obeyed, restraint is not shown, sustained stress piles up on soldiers. They become lost. They go mad. They become butchers. And since there were combat photographers on sight, we have pictures of people after they've been sexually assaulted, but right before they're gunned down. Dead bodies of civillians alone, piled up in ditches, men, women, children. 504 civilians massacred by the army estimates, though I find the source to be dubious. LBJ is a blood soaked monster and I'll tell you why. Now US involvement in Vietnam started in the 50's under Eisenhower. This was a long, LONG war, but it was mostly "advisors" going in and training people which is pretty par for the course if you're a CIA paramilitary trainer. But LBJ was the one to commit to war due to the Gulf of Tonkin incident which he knew was made up bullshit. If not immediately, then soon after. This was revealed in 2005 by an NSA historian, Robert J. Hanyok, who said that the report was "deliberately skewed" to make it look like an attack had happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident#Later_statements_about_the_incident Despite 90% of SIGINT (signals intelligence, people who gather intelligence) professionals saying that there was no ambush, the 10% who were made their way to the Johnson administration. The top men (Top. Men.) in the NSA ignored the majority of the people in the field and presented the bad information to Johnson while the findings of the 90% did not. From Hanyok, quote: quote:As much as anything else, it was an awareness that Johnson would brook no uncertainty that could undermine his position. Faced with this attitude, Ray Cline was quoted as saying "... we knew it was bum dope that we were getting from Seventh Fleet, but we were told only to give facts with no elaboration on the nature of the evidence. Everyone knew how volatile LBJ was. He did not like to deal with uncertainties." And so we got Vietnam as a result of his incurious, volatile nature. Or that was the excuse. Spies aren't known for telling the whole truth and will act as cover for administrations. The total numbers dead over their twenty year war from resulted were two million civilian deaths, 200,000 to 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers dead, 58,200 US soldiers dead and some unknown number of people on the opposing side. I'm assuming a lot. Now not all of those civilians and military personnel save for the Americans died during US involvement, but there was no attack on those ships and that information doubtless came later. We went to Vietnam for a lie and Johnson knew it. Shitloads of people were drafted, again, basically enslaved and sent to go fight people for no good loving reason. And in the US context, we don't think of the foreign civilians that die just like we don't think about Afghani or Iraqi citizens who died. They are not counted by us. Only the troops matter to most people. They are the less than dead, as one of the people whom I respect say. That would be Joe Kasabian of the Lions Led By Donkeys podcast, though I learned about My Lai elsewhere. We got into Vietnam for bullshit reasons. If not understood as bullshit at the time, then certainly afterwards. It was an excuse to go in and export democracy. Drop freedom on them in the common parlance. We made everything worse. That's what militaries do. They break things. Places, people, nations, that's what they do. They break things. They can do other things too, but that isn't their main purpose. Their purpose is to break things or to present a credible threat that they will break things. We are not a positive force in this world. LBJ should not be lauded. There is no comparison to some Freedom Caucus. It would be funny that you would even consider that if it weren't so horrible. If not for him, those civilians would still be alive and they have just as much of a right to life as you or me. Those servicemen and women would still be alive. None of this would have happened. And there were more massacres just like My Lai that didn't hit the media, but were instead suppressed. Imagine a world in which we fed people sandwiches instead of bullets. Dropped bandages instead of bombs. We could do it. The fact that we kill instead of care is a choice. We could build consent without violence as the basis for all interaction with government. It is possible. But instead we tolerate violence because we think it is the only way. We just get mad when that violence gets out of hand, but we sure as poo poo tolerate violence as the basis for manufacturing consent. Look upon them, these less than dead. This is who were are. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 01:50
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Jesus Christ dude put it in your blog
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Nov 14, 2019 01:52
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What the gently caress does my lai have to do with literally anything that has happened in us politics in the last decade If anyone cares to read about my lai, I suggest reading '4 hours in My Lai' not some abbreviated recreation of the wiki post
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Nov 14, 2019 01:55
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Catalyst-proof posted:Jesus Christ dude put it in your blog If you don't want to read my posts because it is inconvenient to scroll on your phone while I talk about massacres done by the United States, then put me on your ignore list.
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Nov 14, 2019 01:56
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Catalyst-proof posted:Jesus Christ dude put it in your blog What is it with modern goons and being anti-interesting effortposts that are written from the gut? Posts like what IP just wrote are the kind of content that this community once prided itself upon nurturing and creating. Not everyone wants to read a bunch of banal one-liner shitposts about the latest outrage of the day- some of us want some coffee with our cream.
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Nov 14, 2019 01:56
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Because what the gently caress does it have to do with anything at all being discussed currently. If someone wants to start an 'effort post about american war crimes thread' please do and I'll gladly join in, but it's just flippant and weird to bring something that serious up in a place where it's going to get glossed over
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 01:57
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Herstory Begins Now posted:What the gently caress does my lai have to do with literally anything that has happened in us politics in the last decade The underlying causes of horrors like the Vietnam War/My Lai are the exact same underlying causes of our present sociopolitical turmoil.
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Nov 14, 2019 01:58
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Because what the gently caress does it have to do with anything at all being discussed currently Maybe he's a boomer looking to reinforce his left wing bona fides?
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Nov 14, 2019 01:58
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Ice Phisherman, thank you for asking if I'm sure. I ended up no longer being sure.
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Nov 14, 2019 01:59
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The winter of our discountenance tax: https://i.imgur.com/sbcjhxD.mp4
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Nov 14, 2019 01:59
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Because what the gently caress does it have to do with anything at all being discussed currently its pretty standard to go on a three page derail about how much Pelosi sucks anytime anyone mentions her name, so one post aside about LBJ is hardly outre.
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Nov 14, 2019 01:59
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Ice Phisherman posted:If you don't want to read my posts because it is inconvenient to scroll on your phone while I talk about massacres done by the United States, then put me on your ignore list. This is a decent effort post in the wrong thread, friend. You can just state that My Lai and our present situation are part and parcel of the same diseased system without needing to post the details of something that happened decades ago.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:00
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Prester Jane posted:The underlying causes of horrors like the Vietnam War/My Lai are the exact same underlying causes of our present sociopolitical turmoil. I want to hear this one explained. The causes of the vietnam war have basically nothing whatsoever to do with the 'underlying casues of our present sociolpolitical turmoil'
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Nov 14, 2019 02:01
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Shifty Pony posted:There is absolutely something illegal in those tax returns, it just might not be very politically damaging. My suspicion is that they show he's actually a poor and his lenders would flip if they put it all together
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Nov 14, 2019 02:02
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e: post sucks, disregard
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Nov 14, 2019 02:03
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paperwind posted:This is a decent effort post in the wrong thread, friend. You can just state that My Lai and our present situation are part and parcel of the same diseased system without needing to post the details of something that happened decades ago. At the same point in time, while I can't say that I enjoyed reading about the My Lai massacre, I did appreciate how Ice Phisherman tied its legacy into the greater legacy of the United States and the amount of effort and passion they put into their post. It's good to have that context and linkage, and it really is a shame that historic atrocities like it in our history are presented as individual events, rather than emblematic of larger and consistent patterns.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:03
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rscott posted:Lying about your income and assets to either the government or banks is fraud afaik We know for basically a fact that he has valued his properties quite differently for property taxes vs loan applications soooo
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Nov 14, 2019 02:03
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Shifty Pony posted:There is absolutely something illegal in those tax returns, it just might not be very politically damaging. I wouldn't get your hopes up on this. They are audited by IRS agents.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:03
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Yeah IP, here's the thing. I know about My Lai. I know a lot about Vietnam! It's a hosed-up subject, one that fundamentally broke the country and contributed greatly to the hellscape in which we currently live, and LBJ played a large role in the escalation of the war and the general conduct during it. You didn't say a single thing I didn't already know, while also ignoring my larger point that LBJ did more for the poor and disenfranchised than almost any other US legislator during the 20th century. Civil Rights Act of '57 and '64, the Voting Rights Act, Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps, massive investments in education and other programs... the bedrock of the welfare state on which we still rely was created by LBJ and his Great Society, and he accomplished it by being a masterful legislator and manipulator. He was an awful person in many ways! And yet he did more than almost any other legislator in trying to make the country a better place. It's a massive contrast, and that is the point I am trying to make here.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:06
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Yeah IP, here's the thing. I know about My Lai. I know a lot about Vietnam! It's a hosed-up subject, one that fundamentally broke the country and contributed greatly to the hellscape in which we currently live, and LBJ played a large role in the escalation of the war and the general conduct during it. You didn't say a single thing I didn't already know, while also ignoring my larger point that LBJ did more for the poor and disenfranchised than almost any other US legislator during the 20th century. Civil Rights Act of '57 and '64, the Voting Rights Act, Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps, massive investments in education and other programs... the bedrock of the welfare state on which we still rely was created by LBJ and his Great Society, and he accomplished it by being a masterful legislator and manipulator. I do think that the ideological sorting of the parties makes being LBJ in the current day impossible. There's not enough quids to pro quo.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:09
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paperwind posted:This is a decent effort post in the wrong thread, friend. You can just state that My Lai and our present situation are part and parcel of the same diseased system without needing to post the details of something that happened decades ago. I respectfully disagree. Someone made a direct comparison between the Freedom Caucus, calling them bad and then back to LBJ, and that while he did a lot of bad things, he did good things for the poor. This concerns US politics. This is USPOL. This is where I post it. Who we give a poo poo about in this country is incredibly selective due to our narrow focus on who we consider to be a person or not and who we consider our foes has more to do with tribalism than rationality or history or truth. We absolutely need to examine these loyalties and who we consider to be good and bad. Food in my mouth when it is stolen from another is not justice. It is selfishness. That is the gently caress you, got mine mindset on a global scale with a national mindset for a brutal, tribal way of thinking. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 02:09
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As the parent of a three-year-old, I recognize this legal strategy from its successful use in Muppets Most Wanted: “They didn’t No, they didn’t There’s no way they did the crime They couldn’t, they’re too stupid! They’re not criminal masterminds We do not know who did it, but we know who didn’t do it So we know who didn’t do it, yes we know who didn’t do it (They’re incapable of being culpable!)”
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Nov 14, 2019 02:09
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I do think that the ideological sorting of the parties makes being LBJ in the current day impossible. There's not enough quids to pro quo. You could make an argument that the death of earmarks is the direct cause of the death of bipartisanship.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:10
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Prester Jane posted:What is it with modern goons and being anti-interesting effortposts that are written from the gut? Posts like what IP just wrote are the kind of content that this community once prided itself upon nurturing and creating. drat, those darn "modern" goons, my very own taxonomy I made all by myself, refusing to read a bunch of navel-gazing stuff about random crap in the thread about US politics. I reject your suggestion that the only alternative to random crap is one-liner shitposts. How about people just post about the topic of the thread, in a way that allows meaningful discussion to be engaged? Does anyone know when transcripts of the testimony given today would be made available? Will they be on the Congressional website alongside the daily records?
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Nov 14, 2019 02:10
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Catalyst-proof posted:drat, those darn "modern" goons, my very own taxonomy I made all by myself, refusing to read a bunch of navel-gazing stuff about random crap in the thread about US politics. I reject your suggestion that the only alternative to random crap is one-liner shitposts. How about people just post about the topic of the thread, in a way that allows meaningful discussion to be engaged? Yeah! Stop posting about US Politics and post about... uh... hmm.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:13
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Prester Jane posted:The underlying causes of horrors like the Vietnam War/My Lai are the exact same underlying causes of our present sociopolitical turmoil. In the beginning the four cosmic forces were unified, and
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Nov 14, 2019 02:15
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I am the very model of a modern poster goon
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Nov 14, 2019 02:15
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Riatsala posted:Yeah! Stop posting about US Politics and post about... uh... hmm. You *don't have to post if you don't have anything to say*. It's not a requirement to post! Just post when you have something to say! It's not hard! Like my previous post. Asking about information about the transcript, so we can discuss it. I don't understand which part is confusing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 14, 2019 02:16
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Kavros posted:I am the very model of a modern poster goon That's not even the right amount of syllables gtfo of here with this weak poo poo edit: He fixed it excellently, top of next page! Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 02:20
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Modern goon Walks beside me Modern goon Walks on by Modern goon Gets me to the church on time
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Nov 14, 2019 02:20
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FizFashizzle posted:Are they even offering a reason why at this point or has the "routine audit" nonsense finally fizzled out? their reason is some magical, unique privilege ("absolute immunity") that no court has ever recognized and no president has ever been allowed seriously eke out fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 02:25
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oxsnard posted:My suspicion is that they show he's actually a poor and his lenders would flip if they put it all together That's absolutely the heart of the issue for him. When they did his roast on Comedy Central, they basically allowed any mockery except saying he wasn't actually rich. So Donny himself is afraid that anyone looking at his returns will put together a case that he's not a billionaire. Now everyone around him who is tied up in it, are likely more concerned with laying out illegalities and poisoning the operation's future attempts to bullshit for loans to stay afloat. So they egg on his instincts to stonewall. Because not being a billionaire isn't their issue, it's the massive debt and outstanding obligations that they're barely keeping their heads above water on. Plus, at this point, unlike President Deals, they can understand that financial documents showing that he's in hock to various unsavory non-banking types isn't going to help in continuing to get bailed out by unsavory non-banking types.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:25
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M E T H O D O F G O O N It’s the method of modern goon
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Nov 14, 2019 02:28
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Yeah IP, here's the thing. I know about My Lai. I know a lot about Vietnam! It's a hosed-up subject, one that fundamentally broke the country and contributed greatly to the hellscape in which we currently live, and LBJ played a large role in the escalation of the war and the general conduct during it. You didn't say a single thing I didn't already know, while also ignoring my larger point that LBJ did more for the poor and disenfranchised than almost any other US legislator during the 20th century. Civil Rights Act of '57 and '64, the Voting Rights Act, Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps, massive investments in education and other programs... the bedrock of the welfare state on which we still rely was created by LBJ and his Great Society, and he accomplished it by being a masterful legislator and manipulator. lol, LBJ was a goddamn monster and don't you dare give him "credit" for civil rights. "The ballot or the bullet" was a thing, you know
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Nov 14, 2019 02:28
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for reference, a judge has absolute immunity for actions they take in the course of their job: in no way will you ever be allowed to sue a judge for how they talked to you or ruled against you or anything, even if it rises to negligence or recklessness or whatever (that judge can be prosecuted for crimes they do, like corruption, but that's something the state does - YOU don't have any rights to enforce that). similarly, a president has absolute immunity in his decisions as president, so you will never have recourse against donald j trump for policy decisions he makes, you can never hold him civilly liable for harms that his actions as president do to you they want to extend that to basically, anything trump ever does he's absolutely immune, anyone who talks to him is absolutely immune from disclosing those conversations, anyone who's ever worked for him is absolutely immune from disclosing anything he's ever touched, etc. no matter how old it is or how relevant it is this is why it's getting laughed out of court
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Nov 14, 2019 02:29
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Catalyst-proof posted:Does anyone know when transcripts of the testimony given today would be made available? Will they be on the Congressional website alongside the daily records? https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%...A%22House%22%7D Link with boxes checked to lead to the relevant committee. Scroll down to the date needed. https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/110188?s=6&r=60 Today's hearing. No transcript atm. https://intelligence.house.gov/ Has a video of today's hearing (On Air: Watch Our Live Hearing)
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Nov 14, 2019 02:29
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Gyges posted:That's absolutely the heart of the issue for him. When they did his roast on Comedy Central, they basically allowed any mockery except saying he wasn't actually rich. So Donny himself is afraid that anyone looking at his returns will put together a case that he's not a billionaire. He's also obviously cheating on his taxes. He tends to value things up when the Forbes rich list or banks comes calling, and value things down when the IRS asks. So his taxes probably show that he's a pauper, but that may not actually be true. But that would put him in the position of saying "Yeah, I've been cheating on my taxes" which might cause him future problems.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:30
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1194770949662478338 Piece of poo poo
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Nov 14, 2019 02:34
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oxsnard posted:The EPA thing is quite literally a nothingburger in application and impacts on the environment This is absolutely wrong. Just because Trump hasn't been able to repeal the biggest of the EPA rulemakings doesn't mean EPA, environmental science, and our nation have been impacted long term by the damage done to the agency. It is about the individual scientists pushed out, the departments decimated by cuts, the science that has been halted, and the massive amounts of data lost. This isn't just about EPA, this about USGS, BLM, all the federal agencies that steward data or lands. We've lost a massive portion of our waterway monitoring stations and with that, broken 100+ years of data that will now forever be less useful because of this. We've lost huge sections of scientific research into health and environmental impacts. And bad actors have literally been told they won't be fined for polluting public lands. And that's not even getting to the attempts to mass fire scientists by moving their office cross country. We can't ever recover from the scientific damage because the data is lost forever. If we're lucky it will only take a decade or two to recover from the damage done to staffing and science at EPA and DOI. Just because it could have been worse, doesn't mean it isn't having a damaging and lasting impact on this country. That is not a "nothingburger".
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Nov 14, 2019 02:37
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