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Condiv posted:under bernie, national service in antifa will be mandatory a federal jobs guarantee but all the jobs are antifa
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Nov 14, 2019 03:37
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vyelkin posted:a federal jobs guarantee but all the jobs are antifa I think that's what's happening in Bolivia right now
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Nov 14, 2019 03:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rluILutaUIE They swore in a new military high command.
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Nov 14, 2019 04:51
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RIP Syndrome posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rluILutaUIE That's... interesting. Guess the generals were too pro Morales too?
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Nov 14, 2019 04:58
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RIP Syndrome posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rluILutaUIE Well, purging the army of dangerous elements and putting your guys in positions of power is only natural for a coup.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:03
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Cerebral Bore posted:Obligatory reminder that this fucker would have done the exact same fascist death squad poo poo that's now happening in Bolivia had he succeeded in his own coup. Luckily he got co-opted, since Venezuela already has death squads, and was brutally repressing an uprising/strike by the indigenous population in the south around the time the thread got closed. Also the government is quite good at selling off the country's resources to foreign interests. That said, Guaido failed big time and I think he went off the deep end. But you're a fool if you think the Venezuelan government is something to be championed. There are surface similarities between Venezuela and Bolivia, but it kind of ends there, especially since the Venezuelan government actually did gently caress up big time and essentially destroyed the country, not because socialism = bad, but because they were monstrously corrupt and spent the profits from the oil industry with almost no thought for the future. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 05:58
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Randarkman posted:Luckily he got co-opted, since Venezuela already has death squads, and was brutally repressing an uprising/strike by the indigenous population in the south around the time the thread got closed. Also the government is quite good at selling off the country's resources to foreign interests. surely, the NEXT right-wing coup will prove to be a good idea
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Nov 14, 2019 06:01
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GreyjoyBastard posted:That's... interesting. Guess the generals were too pro Morales too? Maybe they bought off the old ones. And if you know they can be bought, you don't keep'em around.
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Nov 14, 2019 06:25
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Randarkman posted:
Maduro was clearly thinking about the future when he bought all those guns for the collectivos. I bet Evo wishes he had that kind of foresight right now.
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Nov 14, 2019 06:55
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Randarkman posted:Luckily he got co-opted, since Venezuela already has death squads, and was brutally repressing an uprising/strike by the indigenous population in the south around the time the thread got closed. Also the government is quite good at selling off the country's resources to foreign interests. Yeah. Morales is good, but Mauro is hot garbage.
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Nov 14, 2019 07:48
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RIP Syndrome posted:Maybe they bought off the old ones. And if you know they can be bought, you don't keep'em around. My assumption is that the coup was done by a bunch of ultra-wealthy landowners that were mad about the nationalizations and the intelligence community was like "what hey cool" and tried to support it in their usual extremely inept way. They're just cleaning up afterwards to make sure they get what they want. I'm really surprised anyone is saying this wasn't a coup, because it very much was.
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Nov 14, 2019 08:35
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punk rebel ecks posted:Yeah. Morales is good, but Mauro is hot garbage. Maduro hasn’t been deposed so he’s bad, Morales was therefore he’s good.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:43
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Maduro's bad but laffo if you think the alternative would be any better
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Nov 14, 2019 15:56
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Maduro hasn’t been deposed so he’s bad, Morales was therefore he’s good. Maduro is bad because Venezuela under him is literally indistinguishable from a right-wing kleptocracy, though notably one where everything has gone to complete poo poo.
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Nov 14, 2019 16:22
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Nov 14, 2019 16:24
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Any validity to the reports that the top brass involved in the coup had previously trained at the School of the Americas?
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Nov 14, 2019 17:06
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Maduro hasn’t been deposed so he’s bad, Morales was therefore he’s good. Yes. Exactly what I was getting at. Thank you.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:18
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https://twitter.com/RalitoDigital/status/1194837545852571648?s=09
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Nov 14, 2019 17:23
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https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1194728799662956545 Viva Morales
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Nov 14, 2019 17:54
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This is fine https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1194909378404651008
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Nov 14, 2019 18:10
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Randarkman posted:Maduro is bad because Venezuela under him is literally indistinguishable from a right-wing kleptocracy, though notably one where everything has gone to complete poo poo. Thats because Maduro IS a right-wing kleptocrat.
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Nov 14, 2019 18:12
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Brazilian soy farmers living in Bolivia (the ones that probably were responsible for the Amazon fires on the Bolivian side) supported the coup: https://antropofagista.com.br/2019/11/14/plantadores-brasileiros-de-soja-na-bolivia-fazem-parte-de-movimento-que-derrubou-evo-morales/
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Nov 14, 2019 18:27
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karthun posted:Thats because Maduro IS a right-wing kleptocrat. eh, not really. his base are mostly poor people and unions etc., and most of the policies which failed so horribly have had a fairly clear left-wing slant to them - price controls for groceries and direct consumer subsidies are not the policies of the contemporary right. maduro's gently caress up is a left-wing gently caress up, we should own it
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Nov 14, 2019 18:33
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Grapplejack posted:My assumption is that the coup was done by a bunch of ultra-wealthy landowners that were mad about the nationalizations and the intelligence community was like "what hey cool" and tried to support it in their usual extremely inept way. They're just cleaning up afterwards to make sure they get what they want. Probably. I was just thinking along the lines of "how do you get the top brass to support a coup knowing they'll likely lose their jobs immediately afterwards".
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Nov 14, 2019 18:35
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V. Illych L. posted:eh, not really. his base are mostly poor people and unions etc., and most of the policies which failed so horribly have had a fairly clear left-wing slant to them - price controls for groceries and direct consumer subsidies are not the policies of the contemporary right. He inherited that from a left-wing leader, though, and hosed it all up in a way that is largely indistinguishable from how a right-wing robber-baron would dismantle a welfare state through austerity. George Osborne followed a very similar playbook, if less ambitiously, in the U.K..
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Nov 14, 2019 18:43
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RIP Syndrome posted:Probably. I was just thinking along the lines of "how do you get the top brass to support a coup knowing they'll likely lose their jobs immediately afterwards". The same way Hitler killed or ousted a lot of his early allies after he was secure in power. A lot of people are only useful for a very specific portion of a coup or revolution and quickly become liabilities. You often have to make alliances to gain power, but once you have power you no longer need all those allies that force you to compromise with. Get rid of them and replace them with your own people you fully control and will never have to compromise with.
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Nov 14, 2019 18:50
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Darth Walrus posted:He inherited that from a left-wing leader, though, and hosed it all up in a way that is largely indistinguishable from how a right-wing robber-baron would dismantle a welfare state through austerity. George Osborne followed a very similar playbook, if less ambitiously, in the U.K.. I would say the intention was different even if there was glaring incompetence. Also, to be honest, Chavez deserves plenty of the blame since the system just flawed ( how the currency functioned and price controls). It is just that how the UK handled fell apart is pretty transparent but Venezuela is more debatable in its details.
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Nov 14, 2019 18:57
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Baronjutter posted:The same way Hitler killed or ousted a lot of his early allies after he was secure in power. A lot of people are only useful for a very specific portion of a coup or revolution and quickly become liabilities. You often have to make alliances to gain power, but once you have power you no longer need all those allies that force you to compromise with. Get rid of them and replace them with your own people you fully control and will never have to compromise with. Right, and the generals would know this too -- so why did they put themselves at risk, and why did they apparently quietly go away afterwards without making a fuss? Hence my speculation that there were bribes/generous retirement deals involved. Although they could've been motivated by ideology too, but then there would be less need to replace them.
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Nov 14, 2019 19:43
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RIP Syndrome posted:Right, and the generals would know this too -- so why did they put themselves at risk, and why did they apparently quietly go away afterwards without making a fuss? Hence my speculation that there were bribes/generous retirement deals involved. Although they could've been motivated by ideology too, but then there would be less need to replace them. The same reason folks like this have existed and then gone away throughout history. They either honestly did not see it coming and thought them selves too important to ever be sidelined, or they knew the arrangement was temporary and it was all part of the package retirement deal. Them going quietly I think points to the latter. Support the coup, then once its looking more secure, accept this generous retirement package. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 20:04
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The new communication minister says there are Journalists "and Pseudojournalists" who are inciting sedition and will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law! https://www.jornada.com.mx/ultimas/mundo/2019/11/14/ministra-boliviana-afirma-que-hay-periodistas-que-hacen-sedicion-4365.html They also announced an economic audit which will no doubt find that Morales not only has 410m $ in the Vatican as the right wing lunatic social media knows, but also that every single MAS member needs to go to jail just in time so no one can stand for election. Also probably the audit will show that they need to start re-privatizing poo poo asap. In La Paz, the teleferico (cable car) public transit system between La Paz and El Alto seems to be turned off, so the undesirables once again have to take hours long trips if they want to make their voices heard. Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 00:11
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Baronjutter posted:The same reason folks like this have existed and then gone away throughout history. They either honestly did not see it coming and thought them selves too important to ever be sidelined, or they knew the arrangement was temporary and it was all part of the package retirement deal. Them going quietly I think points to the latter. AG's still hanging on... at day 5 
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Nov 15, 2019 00:14
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Carlos Mesa doing an  https://twitter.com/LaRazon_Bolivia/status/1194986917558919170 Says neither Morales, nor his VP will be allowed to run in the next elections, and then calls the MAS "militants" to voice their opinions through the coming elections Edit: https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1195108640916672515  Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 00:18
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https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1195102292971868161
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Nov 15, 2019 02:05
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Spice World War II posted:Carlos Mesa doing an Btw militants is a very common term in South America to refer to people who belong to a political party and actively participate in party activities. It's very much a neutral term in this case (you may use it negatively if you pronounce it with derision I guess?) unless Bolivia has its own regional meaning attached to it. Like, did you go hang some banners around for your party out of love or duty towards your party? Congrats, you are a militant. Azran fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 02:18
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The mainstream media is scum, with a tremendous amount of blood on its hands. The good news is, I think more people in the West are watching, and can understand the context, than in 1973.
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Nov 15, 2019 07:52
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Majorian posted:The mainstream media is scum, with a tremendous amount of blood on its hands. The good news is, I think more people in the West are watching, and can understand the context, than in 1973. Most main stream media are extremely reluctant to call it a coup and for the most part use the language of the coup-makers in their reporting.
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Nov 15, 2019 09:57
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Majorian posted:The mainstream media is scum, with a tremendous amount of blood on its hands. The good news is, I think more people in the West are watching, and can understand the context, than in 1973. I am not so sure about that? My impression is that more people are watching, but they are watching superficial news; the amount of traction dumb poo poo like "Evo is a homophobe and sexist, please look at those great alternative forces of democracy instead" or "he hates the rainforest more than even Bolsonaro, we must hope the people representing big agricultural businesses and industry will be better, friday for Camacho!" gets seems overwhelming. Maybe it has become too easy to muddy the waters for "NGO activists" like the dictator grandchild from above? In the 70's and 80's you couldn't just co-opt a giant platform just using your mouse finger, consequently liking and retweeting Greta Thunberg for months. Edit: I don't mean "superficial mainstream media". I mean that it seems to me that it is so easy these days to give yourself the appearance of being a progressive grassroots observer, or co-opt those, and too many people cannot differentiate the dictator grandchild from a real activist, so they throw their hands up in the air and go "it's complicated, let's hope for elections to sort this out". Is there even any major political leader in Europe who denounced this besides Corbyn? Are there any celebrity activists left outside of Roger Waters, whose name being mentioned just leads every good progressive to shut down because he's relegated to being an anti-semitic cook in public opinion? Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 10:40
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Azran posted:Btw militants is a very common term in South America to refer to people who belong to a political party and actively participate in party activities. It's very much a neutral term in this case (you may use it negatively if you pronounce it with derision I guess?) unless Bolivia has its own regional meaning attached to it. Like, did you go hang some banners around for your party out of love or duty towards your party? Congrats, you are a militant. Well I guess the question is how sincere can one be if you ask party activists to express their political will in an election that will have the leaders of their party banned.
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Nov 15, 2019 10:44
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Holy poo poo like 20 pages of this thread and its the most violently brain damaged idiots who have never posted here before suddenly being Very Concerned about bolivia. Its a beautiful allegory how the latinamerica thread turns to complete dogshit whenever theres yankee intervention. Gringos gently caress off already (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 15, 2019 11:33
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Spice World War II posted:Is there even any major political leader in Europe who denounced this besides Corbyn? Pedro Sanchez did, but I think that's it.
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Nov 15, 2019 12:20
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