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Its Coke posted:which is a symptom of depression but enough about disco elysium
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Nov 14, 2019 21:40
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You affect plenty of things. Excepting inventing an entirely new dance style they're 'just' on the level of saving (or dooming) individual lives or interacting with people, which are things the game wants you to take seriously as a big deal. There's a bunch of stuff that would not have happened if Harry had actually found non-existence and not been around to experience it.
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Nov 14, 2019 21:41
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The Virgin Kim and The Chad Harry
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Nov 14, 2019 21:45
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Its Coke posted:also the idea of "you're only able to affect how you react to events" runs completely counter to a game where decisions you make can affect whether several people live or die i don't know if i played the same game as you? the entire thrust of the game is that everything that goes down in martainaise has already been set in motion, and you can't stop it. nothing harry does can significantly alter the outcome of what's about to happen. joyce's company sent battle hardened mercs w/ PTSD and hair trigger tempers as a power move flex on a union that is basically an organized crime family. the murderer killed one of those mercs because of his own frustration and survivor's guilt, and klassje compounded the whole situation into a clusterfuck that now cannot be averted because she's also running from a variety of decisions she has made in her past that she desperately does not want to catch up to her. there's one particular person that you can straight up kill (ruby), another one that might die as a result of your choices interacting with her past decisions (klaasje), and a handful of others that may or may not wind up six feet under based on a handful of decisions you get to make in the blink of an eye. i dunno, it could be my own brain spiders projecting onto the narrative, but the sense that i got from the game was that harry has very little ability to change anything that;s about to unfold. he can determine some very small pieces of the puzzle, but most of what's going to happen has already been set in motion, and all you can really do is guide how he reacts to this unfolding drama.
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Nov 14, 2019 21:47
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Freaking Crumbum posted:i think "it's a gently caress-up" kind of implies a specific type of value judgement that's inconsistent with the themes of the game. i took it more like "you did a thing, here's the consequence of your choice. the end, no moral" because the entire theme of the game seems to be "events are constantly unfolding in the world around you, you're basically only able to affect how you react to them, anything else that happens is out of your hands" Oh no, if there is a non gameover gently caress up in the game its almost certainly this. Its unequivocally a bad thing, it robs you of finding the actual culprit and worse it denies you your meeting with the kindest creature in the world. All because you chose to do the correct thing over the right one. Its also entirely consistent with the games theme for THIS choice to be one that has so much weight behind it. You know the vast majority of your senses are compromised, you know she's lying to you, the king of your senses is telling you to arrest her and so is your best cop bud. You can small brain let her go because "hurrr she's pretty!" big brain arrest her for a bunch of reasons or galactic brain let her go because she's another person broken by her past trying to run away from it all
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Nov 14, 2019 21:57
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Freaking Crumbum posted:i don't know if i played the same game as you? decisions you make can cause Ruby, Klaasje, you, Cunoesse, Rene, one of the Hardie boys iirc, possibly the Cryptozoologist and potentially others to die it's unlikely anything you do will affect the overall political situation in Martinaise but saying your actions don't have consequences is absurd
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Nov 14, 2019 22:01
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Freaking Crumbum posted:i don't know if i played the same game as you? The way I took it an emphasis is being put on how basically everyone around the Tribunal acted in a way that led to it happening; it was actually extremely avoidable, just not at this point. Too many people acted without regard to how things could escalate. In addition to what you mentioned is Titus publicly announcing that he did that brutal murder of the merc leader, and Harry for wasting time having his breakdown before you play as him. You lack the power to course correct, but everyone influenced the tragedy to happen.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:01
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Oh no, if there is a non gameover gently caress up in the game its almost certainly this. Its unequivocally a bad thing, it robs you of finding the actual culprit and worse it denies you your meeting with the kindest creature in the world. All because you chose to do the correct thing over the right one. whaaaaaaaaat? i did the think you're spoilering, and it did not prevent either of those things you're mentioning from happening. are you making an oblique reference to something else? in one play through i arrested klaasje and i was still able to confront ruby, find the old man on the island, get him to admit what he had done, and speak with the phasmid.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:01
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Oh no, if there is a non gameover gently caress up in the game its almost certainly this. Its unequivocally a bad thing, it robs you of finding the actual culprit and worse it denies you your meeting with the kindest creature in the world. All because you chose to do the correct thing over the right one. the problem with this, like I was saying, is that cop-ly duty isn't the only reason to arrest her. it's also because there's a sword of Damocles hanging over you and as far as you know doing this could save several other lives
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Nov 14, 2019 22:03
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Volte posted:I won't bother quoting everyone individually but a lot of responses to my combat post seem to be missing the fact that "traditional RPG combat" and "combat" in general aren't necessarily the same thing. A fresh new take on RPG combat that steps away from the tropes of fantasy RPGs is what I would look for, not the same old poo poo shoehorned in, just like I don't want the very concept of RPG combat to be erased from our collective memories like a bad dream. I think DE's skills system would lend itself to a unique and fresh combat system that doesn't involve mass murdering the whole town for no reason or gating progression behind your combat stats. Some people say that DE does have combat, in the form of skill checks during dialogue, which is almost true, but it doesn't have the key ingredient: letting players come up with crafty ways to solve situations, which is one of my favourite things about RPGs and one thing that I think is hopeless without some form of combat. Really, combat is just a stand-in word for "unscripted freeform player-driven action/consequence loop". Dress it up however you want, but it's something that I would miss if it suddenly became outmoded. http://zaumstudio.com/2018/05/03/combat-in-disco-elysium/ The problem, if you read the blog post where they describe their combat system, is that they tried to give that kind of freedom, until they realized pretty soon that ,well gently caress, every decision they wanted to offer to the player would multiply exponentially the amount of work they had to put in creating art and programming for every possible combination or branch. We are in a market where even massive AAA studios are actually being bitten in the arse by scope creep and lack of direction, so having a ten people strong cultural movement making something so good on their first try is a testament to the power of committing to the best possible implementation of a killer idea, instead of getting bogged down by thousand "wouldn't it be cool if..." or feeling peer pressured in tacking on half baked systems "because is not a real game otherwise"
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Nov 14, 2019 22:03
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Its Coke posted:but saying your actions don't have consequences is absurd i didn't say that your actions as harry don't have consequences. i said my take on the main thrust of the game was that you can't change what's already happened and that you can't prevent the consequences of those things, you can only affect how harry relates to the situation. obviously the act of relating to the situation can create further consequences, but you can't undo the things that happened before, nor can you meaningfully avert the consequences of those actions
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Nov 14, 2019 22:05
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Don't get me wrong - I enjoy clever combat puzzles as much as the next person, and I've spent a few hundred hours of my life X-Com'ing. I've just yet to encounter a game that incorporates said puzzles while at the same time dealing seriously with the consequences and trauma of actual combat. While I'm sure that such a game could be made, the uncritical glorification of the killing of one's enemies that underlies most RPG combat is directly at odds with any sort of psychological realism. Darkest Dungeon, e.g., acknowledges trauma in a surface sort of way, but it only works because it actively encourages the player to sociopathically disregard the well-being of the characters. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 22:08
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Alpheratz posted:http://zaumstudio.com/2018/05/03/combat-in-disco-elysium/ yeah I agree with Volte that combat systems can be a good thing to have in RPGs but DE is better without one imo
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Nov 14, 2019 22:10
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I feel like the fledgling video game studio in this game that went bankrupt because they wanted to make a game with a completely absurd number of possible options is instructive for the state this game launched in. Like, yeah, it could be more reactive and give you more options in a few places, but "done" is better than "perfect".
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Nov 14, 2019 22:16
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wiegieman posted:DE doesn't need traditional rpg combat. In this kind of story, drawing your weapon on someone who already has theirs out is a tense and dangerous moment and if things go wrong a single bullet will kill you. It didn't need a traditional combat system, but what I think it did need is a lot more options at the Tribunal. Not options that result in a peaceful or totally successful outcome, mind you, just more options. As it stands it really does just boil down to "shoot Kortaneur/throw the bomb at Kortaneur, and distract him to make him an easier target if that check is too hard for you." I feel like that encounter should have had an overwhelming number of options in it, many of them stupid, insane, or obviously doomed.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:18
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IDK the background of the team as a whole, but if this was the first project of more than a few involved then this game goes from merely goat to actual miracle
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Nov 14, 2019 22:20
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Freaking Crumbum posted:i didn't say that your actions as harry don't have consequences. i said my take on the main thrust of the game was that you can't change what's already happened and that you can't prevent the consequences of those things, you can only affect how harry relates to the situation. obviously the act of relating to the situation can create further consequences, but you can't undo the things that happened before, nor can you meaningfully avert the consequences of those actions I mean that's so abstracted as to be loving meaningless, but it's also just flat out wrong. Depending on how you approach things more or less people are alive, your team is convinced to go after the Twins, the Union has been convinced to gently caress off from the docks or not, a lot of things are in some degree of flux. You can't SAVE THE ENTIRE WORLD AND RESOLVE ALL ISSUES, no. You can do something about everything though. What else is there?
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Nov 14, 2019 22:25
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cock hero flux posted:It didn't need a traditional combat system, but what I think it did need is a lot more options at the Tribunal. Not options that result in a peaceful or totally successful outcome, mind you, just more options. As it stands it really does just boil down to "shoot Kortaneur/throw the bomb at Kortaneur, and distract him to make him an easier target if that check is too hard for you." I feel like that encounter should have had an overwhelming number of options in it, many of them stupid, insane, or obviously doomed. wait what bomb
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Nov 14, 2019 22:26
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Its Coke posted:wait what bomb There's a bottle of highly questionable blue spirits you can buy from the three hobos in the fishing village. If you have that in your inventory and are wearing the Horrific Necktie after you're done confronting Ruby, the Necktie will pipe up and tell you it's time to make a molotov cocktail. You can then equip & use it in the tribunal.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:28
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cock hero flux posted:It didn't need a traditional combat system, but what I think it did need is a lot more options at the Tribunal. Not options that result in a peaceful or totally successful outcome, mind you, just more options. As it stands it really does just boil down to "shoot Kortaneur/throw the bomb at Kortaneur, and distract him to make him an easier target if that check is too hard for you." I feel like that encounter should have had an overwhelming number of options in it, many of them stupid, insane, or obviously doomed. Maybe the game could've used more reactivity, but they had to put a line somewhere lest it became another Fortress Accident.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:33
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I wonder if smaller/crowdfunded projects are gonig to be more successful in the next decade because everyone can see all the mistakes this decade and learn from them
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Nov 14, 2019 22:34
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itry posted:Maybe the game could've used more reactivity, but they had to put a line somewhere lest it became another Fortress Accident.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:36
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Mystic Stylez posted:Also I'm kinda mad that I invested heavily on Inland Empire on my first playthrough but never got the tie dialogue and remote viewing and I don't know why. I wanted my second go to be completely different but it feels like I'll have to sink lots of points into IE again. The same thing applies to Shivers and the city straight up asking you to save it, I think?. you ran past the trigger or more likely you weren’t wearing it
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Nov 14, 2019 22:38
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There are a lot of good games made through crowdfunding already. The current cRPG resurgence is thanks in part to those kind of projects.Ersatz posted:I feel compelled to point out that your av/gang tag combo is glorious. 
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Nov 14, 2019 22:40
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itry posted:Maybe the game could've used more reactivity, but they had to put a line somewhere lest it became another Fortress Accident. To me Barkley 2 will always be the ultimate example of this. All anyone wanted was another funny RPG but they decided they needed 1000 different weapon sprites, a revolutionary time-based questing system, and an entire fully readable ingame internet
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Nov 14, 2019 23:02
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itry posted:There are a lot of good games made through crowdfunding already. The current cRPG resurgence is thanks in part to those kind of projects. yeah, and no matter what there will always be some fiascos too, I'm just hoping that now that there's cultural awareness of common mistakes they'll happen less often
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Nov 14, 2019 23:06
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basically this game is a sadder, more communist version of It's a Wonderful Life.
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Nov 14, 2019 23:07
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The Ultimate Doge posted:To me Barkley 2 will always be the ultimate example of this. All anyone wanted was another funny RPG but they decided they needed 1000 different weapon sprites, a revolutionary time-based questing system, and an entire fully readable ingame internet What the...  Barkley 2 posted:On June 2, 2019, a Kickstarter update confirmed that the majority of developers have left the project and that development is moving slowly, with only two people left on the project working on it part time, neither of them members of the original team that made the first game. 
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Nov 14, 2019 23:08
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Impermanent posted:basically this game is a sadder, more communist version of It's a Wonderful Life.
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Nov 14, 2019 23:14
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I was enjoying my first few in-game hours of this. Then I looked at a car and suddenly my motivation dropped and that made my character quit. It came a bit out of nowhere. Was I meandering to much? I hadn't picked up that corpse from the tree yet.
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Nov 14, 2019 23:14
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cant cook creole bream posted:I was enjoying my first few in-game hours of this. Then I looked at a car and suddenly my motivation dropped and that made my character quit. It came a bit out of nowhere. Was I meandering to much? You can use the restorative buttons above your health/morale bars to save yourself from 0, but as a general rule try to have more than 1 max.
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Nov 14, 2019 23:23
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Uh oh, the rave song in the game (plus the added guitar track) has been stuck in my head for two days now. I ran out of ways to uncap the final check so I'm afraid I'll just have this half-done song in my head forever now.
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Nov 14, 2019 23:26
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cock hero flux posted:It didn't need a traditional combat system, but what I think it did need is a lot more options at the Tribunal. Not options that result in a peaceful or totally successful outcome, mind you, just more options. As it stands it really does just boil down to "shoot Kortaneur/throw the bomb at Kortaneur, and distract him to make him an easier target if that check is too hard for you." I feel like that encounter should have had an overwhelming number of options in it, many of them stupid, insane, or obviously doomed. Ultimately they chose personal, intimate reactivity over impersonal narrative reactivity, and it was a wise call, which paid off 100%
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Nov 14, 2019 23:45
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Zero VGS posted:Uh oh, the rave song in the game (plus the added guitar track) has been stuck in my head for two days now. I ran out of ways to uncap the final check so I'm afraid I'll just have this half-done song in my head forever now. Shameful if you don't just walk around doing the ultimate dance.
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Nov 14, 2019 23:46
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Finished with a 4 Psy, Fys and 2 Int, Mot build and loved it. Any recommendations for a build on a second run through. I'm having trouble deciding since I loved Shivers and Inland Empire so much I don't really want to change stats
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Nov 15, 2019 00:05
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steinrokkan posted:Shameful if you don't just walk around doing the ultimate dance. I also ran out of ways to unlock the Harrier dance so I'm just IRL doing that weird foot shuffling dance that Andre does
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Nov 15, 2019 00:05
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divx posted:Finished with a 4 Psy, Fys and 2 Int, Mot build and loved it. Any recommendations for a build on a second run through. I'm having trouble deciding since I loved Shivers and Inland Empire so much I don't really want to change stats I had a great time going 5 INT 3 PSY 2 FYS 2 MOT, with early points going into Inland Empire. Worked well conceptually for me as an alcoholic who's trying to quit is going to be a shaky physical mess, and when you go 5 INT you have this universe's wikipedia in your head just drip-feeding you lore and irrelevant info constantly. Plus strong logic and drama turn you into a human lie detector. You can always dump your points into shivers if you want to keep that up, I think there's a thought which significantly raises its cap. Oh and of course, the Wompty Dompty Dom Center becomes an insanely good skill as there's oodles of encyclopedia checks. Speaking of the Wompty Dompty Dom Center (ending spoilers) given that the ending reveals the guy who tells you about it probably knows you've lost your memory, I'm now totally convinced he was just loving with you after all.
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Nov 15, 2019 00:20
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Glazius posted:You can use the restorative buttons above your health/morale bars to save yourself from 0, but as a general rule try to have more than 1 max. Hmm. I reloaded a safe. Apparently my starting character has only one morale. That kinda sucks.
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Nov 15, 2019 00:25
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I kept dying in one of the encounters until I realized that even if you are on your last HP, you can click the healing button after dropping to zero, as long as the screen isn't completely black yet.
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Nov 15, 2019 00:29
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Mystic Stylez posted:Also I'm kinda mad that I invested heavily on Inland Empire on my first playthrough but never got the tie dialogue and remote viewing and I don't know why. I wanted my second go to be completely different but it feels like I'll have to sink lots of points into IE again. The same thing applies to Shivers and the city straight up asking you to save it, I think?. You have to actually wear the tie it turns out. Check for SPIRIT BOMB is after meeting Ruby
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Nov 15, 2019 00:30
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