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Production were definitely hoping for a Zeke Varner style retribution but this was happening all season and they should have done something weeks earlier.
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Nov 15, 2019 09:39
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One of the more ugly sides of survivor for sure, if it was any other week where his vote wasn't needed he goes home but instead they have to keep him calm and a number for the upcoming votes. Imagine what he would be like at ponderosa after a few drinks..The Bloop posted:This whole sabotage pencil thing is amazing Should have included someone to do the calligraphy like all the other advantages, if your hand writing is trash it's not much use to you. Then write it up as the super idol text and use it as leverage or something. Teckiwi fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 09:43
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I think I can see production's side of this. When it came up earlier in the season it seemed to get kind of brushed aside by everyone, including us. Once the merge happens and Kellee makes clear its really affecting her production offers to get involved. She says no but they act anyway and give him a warning. Then everything just plays out in the worst way imaginable. Kellee gets voted out over Dan, Janet tells Dan everything, Missy and Elizabeth lie and scapegoat Janet, Aaron and others go with them and Dan and make Janet the tribe enemy, Dan plays victim in Tribal while Kellee has to sit silently listening. Just absolutely terrible course of events but most of it outside productions control and after Kellee is already gone. Should they have done more? I definitely understand that argument and ask myself that as well. I get why they didn't want to take the big step of removing Dan when the one person complaining turned down their action. I can understand them not knowing how to address it directly without exposing that Missy and Elizabeth were manipulating the other women. That aspect of it really complicates the situation, I think, because you effectively have people using the accusations as game strategy, some of them outright saying they didn't mean it. And Kellee seemed to get upset AFTER they worked her up more about how Dan was allegedly making them all uncomfortable. Its ugly and sleazy and I don't know how you deal with Missy and Elizabeth's actions AND Kellee's at the same time without really affecting the game. But none of that is to say I think they handled it the right way either. I really don't know. But I don't know how to separate Missy and Elizabeth's actions from Kellee's distress, and I don't know how to deal with that with Dan. Dugong posted:Production were definitely hoping for a Zeke Varner style retribution but this was happening all season and they should have done something weeks earlier. That's definitely a production thing I don't like. Jeff loves going into "talk show" mode and while its good that he pressed Dan to address it and not just brush it aside, the whole discussion was rigged and unfair with Kellee unable to defend herself. Jeff and production tried to tie it up neatly as they always do, and it really just made everything uglier.
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Nov 15, 2019 10:32
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AdmiralViscen posted:Production should have removed Dan from the game. They could have sent Dan to IOI and had Boston Rob sabotage his game, instead of sabotaging Jamal.
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Nov 15, 2019 11:24
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Jesus Christ that was an ugly little pair of episodes. I'm really grossed out by how this was handled and I'm not feeling inclined to watching the rest of the season. Seeing Janet's eyes become teary and ragged on for doing the right thing while Dan begged Jeff not to be held account for his actions was disgusting. AdmiralViscen posted:Production should have removed Dan from the game.
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Nov 15, 2019 11:29
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I thought it was a borderline call, though they had enough footage to fire him, but Dan completely brushing off the group meeting and private warning showed me they really hosed up. Kellee's game blew up and someone used the situation for their in-game advantage anyway. Aggressive producers could not have made things any worse.
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Nov 15, 2019 11:42
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That was really gross. gently caress Dan. I hope to see Kellee and Jamal on the show again. Two legit people, and of course big ups to Janet. The Worlds Apart comps are spot on, and it’s interesting cuz as somebody mentioned we were already getting those vibes from the early Karishma treatment (and sadly/ironically, she effectively threw her hat in with the shithead camp with that trite comment about how Janet was merely perceiving her truth or whatever). I would find it hard to believe that it was just a coincidence that the Missy/Elizabeth/Aaron trio was at the center of each issue. Root-worthy people beyond Janet from this point forward...eh, Elaine? loving Noura? Jesus, this season...
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Nov 15, 2019 14:52
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What is lacking in these apologies is awareness of the real world. Yes, we know already that the players might not have all of the information. That's the loving game. That's a given. I don't think anyone watching cares about that. Both Missy and Elizabeth say they didn't have all of the information. Well would you have all of the information in a workplace harassment claim? No. These are the same people that would sit there and say, "well the boss never touched me." That's neither a good excuse or a good defense of one's actions. This is exactly what happens in real life/workplace when people stand up and let their voices be heard and we all had to watch it go down in a tiny microcosm of disgust and lack of empathy. These people are going on the defensive, but failing to realize their behavior being dismissive on the show represents a systematic issue in society that is hard to watch. I also hate that Elizabeth apologies for "triggering" people... I feel like trigger is used wrong here. Isn't triggering when someone unjustifiable is mad? I mean, people didn't get triggered here. We had to watch these people use sexual harassment as gameplay. Her apology accepts that there is no place to do that in the game or out of it and yet they all did it in game... I'm missing something here. This is a lawyer written statement if I've ever seen one. Did anyone else notice that both apologies touched on the exact same talking points in the same order?  My girlfriend is done with this season. I can't blame her. This might be the only season of Survivor that I won't finish. An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 15:12
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Yeah Elizabeth’s “apology” is bullshit. “Sorry you felt this way”. Classic non-apology apology.
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Nov 15, 2019 15:20
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https://twitter.com/Carbin39/status/1195319899956101120 So Tommy is actually a decent dude but got a ton of poo poo on social media and reddit over nothing.
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Nov 15, 2019 15:20
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To absolutely nobody’s surprise, Varner is on Dan’s side. And he’s only watched the last episode, so he is clearly qualified to give an opinion.
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Nov 15, 2019 15:36
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An Ounce of Gold posted:I also hate that Elizabeth apologies for "triggering" people... I feel like trigger is used wrong here. Isn't triggering when someone unjustifiable is mad? I mean, people didn't get triggered here. We had to watch these people use sexual harassment as gameplay. Triggering does not mean unjustifiable... It's just a word to communicate that a topic/content/issue triggers trauma-thoughts that unfortunately has been twisted to invalidate the people that are "triggered". If someone was sexually assaulted and smells the same cologne that their attacker wore, that could be triggering. Watching a rape scene as a rape victim could be triggering. Watching a Survivor episode that addresses inappropriate touching could be triggering for someone who experienced harassment or sexual assault. But yes, as far as an apology goes, that's not a great one, by far. I don't get why people can't simply apologize for the facts -- what they factually did (i.e. continued touching a tribemate after they told me not to; using ongoing sexual harassment to benefit my game because I am unaffected by it). I have no clue what to expect from next week's meeting episode.
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Nov 15, 2019 15:59
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AWarmBody posted:I have no clue what to expect from next week's meeting episode. Meeting episode?
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Nov 15, 2019 17:35
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freeman posted:https://twitter.com/Carbin39/status/1195319899956101120 Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 18:25
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Fast Luck posted:Yeah, there are some random people that just happened to be on the other side of the numbers but weren’t shown to be involved in coddling Dan or undermining Janet. Tommy, Elaine, Dean. Maybe Lauren? Was Lauren also dismissive at some point, or was she simply loyal to Missy? Lauren gave a confessional at the start of the 2nd hour saying that what was being talked about in regards to Dan wasn’t brought up in the right way and it wasn’t right to vote out Dan over it.
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Nov 15, 2019 18:37
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blue squares posted:Meeting episode? My brain crossed wires -- typo. But if my work meetings were about Survivor, i would leave a positive Glassdoor review for my employer.
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Nov 15, 2019 18:58
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garthoneeye posted:Lauren gave a confessional at the start of the 2nd hour saying that what was being talked about in regards to Dan wasn’t brought up in the right way and it wasn’t right to vote out Dan over it. Yeah, she seemed to be aware of what was happening but it wasn't clear if she was an active participant in it. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on the first part but she probably had enough info to know Janet was being railroaded and carries some responsibility for the second part.
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Nov 15, 2019 21:49
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It's hard to tease the ugliness from the game. That said, with or without Dan being creepy, wasn't Janet OG Vokai? So Lauren just wasn't interested going into the merge.
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Nov 15, 2019 23:24
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STAC Goat posted:I think I can see production's side of this. When it came up earlier in the season it seemed to get kind of brushed aside by everyone, including us. Once the merge happens and Kellee makes clear its really affecting her production offers to get involved. She says no but they act anyway and give him a warning. Then everything just plays out in the worst way imaginable. I just want to strongly disagree with this. I'm an idiot that doesn't know anything but in my eyes the Official Warning should have been, at absolute latest, the first time Dan touched Kellee after their Episode 1 conversation (we saw him weirdly kiss her head in Episode 2) and then the Removal should have been, at absolute latest, the moment he touched her after the warning. Really, there's no reason not to have a Warning (or even the general production-lead conversation with everyone about personal boundaries) as soon as Kellee is uncomfortable enough to have the conversation with him in Episode 1. From that moment, production knows this is a potential safety concern and should be as proactive as possible in preventing it from escalating. Production waiting until the merge to even start the process seems unacceptable. An analogy I've seen online that I think highlights the mistakes here is to think of this like a medevac-type situation. If production saw a player casually limping on one their right knee, they would immediately intervene and investigate and proactively prevent it from getting worse by bandaging any open wounds and monitoring for infections. And the moment the situation got worse and became a safety concern they would be pulled even if the player insisted it wasn't a big deal and they could just take care of it themselves. Here, the fact that Kellee ever had to talk to Dan about this (regardless of whether or not she says It's Fine And Settled Now) should be a big siren going off that requires immediate action to prevent from getting worse. ETA: To clarify, I didn't mean I disagreed with STAC in particular, just strongly disagree with the general idea I've seen pop up elsewhere that production didn't really make any major mistakes here (which I realize is not quite what STAC said!). mancalamania fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 05:30
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Yeah honestly production just wanted to have their cake and eat it too in a grossly transparent way. They went out of their way to demonstrate both Dan's repeated creepy acts (in order to present a coherent, consumable story) -and- their own attempts to break the fourth wall and manage the situation (in order to get themselves off the hook), but in presenting the former so effectively, they proved how disproportionately weak of a response the latter was. I am still quite grossed out by what Missy and Elizabeth did, don't get me wrong, but I'm more of the mind now that production (in addition to scumbag Dan, obviously) helped create some incredibly difficult conditions in the first place by virtue of taking such a soft stance. At the very LEAST (I wish they had axed him far earlier, personally), they should have given an individual, unequivocal warning to Dan, and Dan alone, instead of some vague, general warning to the entire tribe, which did a few things: 1) gave the resident island sociopath more reason to believe his own delusions that he wasn't doing anything wrong, and 2) conveyed the message that the situation was being handled (it really wasn't) while subtly shifting responsibility away from production and toward the cast, who were then put in awkward, self-policing watchdog positions (and we saw how that worked out via Janet). I can partially see the logic of a group warning in addition to a harsh individual warning for Dan, but if people like Tommy (if they are to be believed) didn't grasp the seriousness of the problem, then clearly it was a worthless warning. Jeff can go on and on about how Survivor is a microcosm for daily life and how letting these things play out in front of the camera can lead to cathartic, educational moments or whatever, but production's way of dealing with the situation 100% fueled the problem. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 07:43
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mancalamania posted:I just want to strongly disagree with this. I'm an idiot that doesn't know anything but in my eyes the Official Warning should have been, at absolute latest, the first time Dan touched Kellee after their Episode 1 conversation (we saw him weirdly kiss her head in Episode 2) and then the Removal should have been, at absolute latest, the moment he touched her after the warning. Really, there's no reason not to have a Warning (or even the general production-lead conversation with everyone about personal boundaries) as soon as Kellee is uncomfortable enough to have the conversation with him in Episode 1. From that moment, production knows this is a potential safety concern and should be as proactive as possible in preventing it from escalating. Production waiting until the merge to even start the process seems unacceptable. I think its probably production's responsibility to go to Kellee in Episode 1-2 and ask her about that weird touching/kiss and if its a problem they need to address. If Kellee says "no, I can handle it" then I can understand production not intervening because to do so risks affecting Kellee's game negatively. If they go warn Dan when Kellee said she could handle it then you could inadvertently create a situation like Dan resenting Kellee or avoiding her as an ally or wanting her out so he doesn't have to deal with the situation. To follow the injury analogy I think if you see a player limping production should ask them if they're ok. If they say "yes" and there's no further signs of problems then you don't pull them out of the game or examine them. This might be a mistake on production's part because the player might just have a high pain tolerance and be hiding it to stay in the game. But at the same time if production over reacts they risk putting a target on the player. That's all hypothetical and like I said, I really don't know where I fall on it. I just can see the "don't get involved in the game" conflicts vs the "this is beyond game" safety concerns. There's obviously a line where production has to draw where they intervene even if it does risk unintended game effects and maybe they missed that line this time. I kind of think its possible Kellee swallowed a lot of it until the tribe swap got her away from Dan and it only re-emerged when they merged and Kellee started voicing her feelings, got her feelings supported, and broke down. That's where we see production get involved. Is that too late? Yeah, it seems so. Was it unquestionably clear in Episode 1-2 it had to happen? I don't know. It wasn't really a topic we were discussing so I don't know how obvious it should have been without hindsight. So like... I don't know. I can see reasons why they would have handled it the way they did for what they thought was best for everyone, including Kellee's game. But even if that's the case that doesn't mean its the right decisions and that there shouldn't be lots of regret and second guessing now. Because there's no question however it was handled, it went very, very bad. Vernacular posted:I am still quite grossed out by what Missy and Elizabeth did, don't get me wrong, but I'm more of the mind now that production (in addition to scumbag Dan, obviously) helped create some incredibly difficult condoitions in the first place by virtue of taking such a soft stance. At the very LEAST (I wish they had axed him far earlier, personally), they should have given an individual, unequivocal warning to Dan, and Dan alone, instead of some vague, general warning to the entire tribe, which did a few things: 1) gave the resident island sociopath more reason to believe his own delusions that he wasn't doing anything wrong, and 2) conveyed the message that the situation was being handled (it really wasn't) while subtly shifting responsibility away from production and toward the cast, who were then put in awkward, self-policing watchdog positions (and we saw how that worked out via Janet). I can partially see the logic of a group warning in addition to a harsh individual warning for Dan, but if people like Tommy (if they are to be believed) didn't grasp the seriousness of the problem, then clearly it was a worthless warning. I can only assume they thought by giving the group warning AND the individual one to Dan they thought they were both addressing the subject as a whole to legitimize it and making it clear to Dan that he was the reason for it. They did say he was made clear it was a direct warning to him. But of course I think Dan proved that he's highly capable of self delusion and making himself the victim so that individual warning didn't seem to stick at all. And yeah, if we're to believe the apologies and "spin" than the broader one didn't register the issue to the tribe as a whole. Of course there's still a lot we don't know like if they're being honest with us or spinning, or who talked to who. Its possible Kellee only really confided in who we saw her confide with while Missy and Elizabeth were telling the others that it wasn't a big deal and Kellee and/or Janet were just playing it up for game like they were. Then once Kellee is gone and Janet is ostracized it seemed like Missy/Elizabeth/Dan's narrative really took hold. Short of Kellee telling us "I talked to all those people and made clear how I felt" I'm not sure we'll know the answers to that. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 09:42
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There's also a tricky situation where even if Kellee says 'it's fine', there's a responsibility of the producers to look after its players. We've seen multiple medevacs where the player were proclaiming that they were fine, and the doctor goes, 'no, you're not, for your own safety, I'm the expert and we're pulling you out'. Of course this is a slightly different situation, but if an expert decided that it was too dangerous, they should have pulled out Dan regardless.
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Nov 16, 2019 10:12
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Agreed, but we're also theoretically talking about physical pain and injury vs emotional and psychological. So its easier for the doctor to identify a problem even if the patient isn't fully cooperating than it is this case, I think. Its also multiple parties so its exponentially more complicated to "examine", especially without potentially negative ramifications on the games of the people you're trying to protect. Again, doesn't mean they didn't miss the spot where they should have intervened. It seems clear they did somewhere.
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Nov 16, 2019 10:29
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Ah, I didn’t see/hear that they gave him a direct warning. Thought everyone got the same boilerplate group warning. I wonder if the producers decided to let the chips fall where they may once Kellee and Dan were split up via tribeswap, hoping that one of the two might get voted out and the situation would resolve itself? If so, just such a negligent gamble. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 11:04
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The way they described it they gave everyone a refresher on the "code of conduct" and then pulled Dan aside and specifically told him this was his "warning". So he was either lying when he insisted he had no idea or he just did that narcissistic thing where you assume everyone is getting a warning because of some other person. My impression of the whole situation is that it was an early issue when they were getting to know each other with obviously Kellee being most affected, but it was in that rough time early when everyone is a stranger and you're just trying not to make enemies so it probably got downplayed. Then the tribes swap and Kellee is separated from him so with the people less affected/bothered it becomes something like a "he snores too loud" thing. Then the merge happens, Kellee is getting sketched out again, she voices this to Missy and Elizabeth who play up that they feel the same way, and that's when it becomes a bigger, open issue for Kellee because she's gotten reinforcement that what she's feeling is shared and others are as affected as she is. Again, production definitely owed it to her to provide a safe experience and place where she could voice her discomfort as soon as she felt it. They obviously failed there at some point of the line (or many). Also reading Missy and Elizabeth's apologies again, I don't know. I don't feel like they really own what they did to Kellee or Janet.
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Nov 16, 2019 13:05
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On the other hand, if the victim doesn’t want the aggressor removed, isn’t going ahead and removing him paternalistic and devaluing?
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Nov 16, 2019 14:32
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That's a difficult line to walk. Often times people, and that includes victims of abuse, do not respond or react rationally in thinking through what they want, and often will come to someone to either report what is happening or may just be trying to process what is going on. There are also subtle non-verbal signs people can give off that may make the victim think they won't be heard, are just being annoying, are making it a bigger deal than it is, etc and will lead to them downplaying the situation (I'm not saying it's their fault, that's just the social situation they find themselves in.) I'm coming from this as a mandatory reporter, which is useful because the decision of what to do is already made for me: I must report anything I hear period end of sentence.
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Nov 16, 2019 15:17
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TheCenturion posted:On the other hand, if the victim doesn’t want the aggressor removed, isn’t going ahead and removing him paternalistic and devaluing? If a victim doesn't want an aggressor removed, more than likely it's because they're trying not to make waves. It's why people don't report things. They don't want to appear weak, vulnerable by asking for help -- all the things that the aggressor made them feel. It's more emotional avoidance than things actually being okay. Honestly, when I look back to similar situations in my life where I also tried to pretend bad situations were okay and manageable and I didn't need help, those were the moments where I really wish there was a Production team to tell me that what's happening is not okay and help address the situation.
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Nov 16, 2019 15:19
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Yeah ultimately, it is not and should not be Kellee's responsibility to make a call on what to do about Dan outside of the context of the game. She is there to play survivor, knowing what to do about someone else's inappropriate behavior is not her job in that context, it's the producers job. I know people were dumping on Jeff for making it a big thing but seeing that interview and deciding something actually did have to be said to everyone is the correct response in that situation, though I wish he had gone a step further and just removed him. The producer breaking the fourth wall to say "is there anything you want us to do" is fine but also not a question to be asked, they should just do it given their position. It's why I have some sympathy for all the other players involved (except Dan.) The whole situation was messy and they never should have been put in a situation where they have to decide and take the side or move against Dan for what he was doing. Max fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 15:37
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if anything good comes out of this episode it's that it hopefully wakes some people up to the poo poo just about all women go through literally their entire lives. aaron's apology seems pretty genuine, not sure i'm feeling the others. but the whole thing felt like it was handled about as poorly as possible. the fact that some people thought it was some sort of gameplay move only proves that when people DO speak up, it gets brushed aside as using unsubstantiated harassment as some sort of angle to get something when that is pretty much never a thing that happens. it really sours me on this season and i'm not sure i'll keep watching. kellee was the victim and got voted out, so there's no hope of her getting a happy ending by winning. and besides janet, jamal was pretty much the only one left who seemed to understand the heart of the issue and now he's gone too. so i guess i'd like to see janet win but i can't say i'm really interested in seeing how everything else plays out. i will also say that unrelated to that situation, the 'oops you lost your vote because you opened up an official game thing' was complete garbage. i'm not sure what the best way for jamal to use his blank sheet was. i know that if i got it i'd be pretty screwed because my handwriting is poo poo even if i try to take my time.
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Nov 16, 2019 16:34
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Adus posted:it really sours me on this season and i'm not sure i'll keep watching. I'm in the same boat. That was an awful episode and extremely poorly handled. I think part of my problem with it is that I don't actually think Survivor production thinks they did anything wrong, and instead are mostly patting themselves on the back for landing a timely storyline. *sigh* If any person is made uncomfortable by a handsy player they need to do something about it, and they have all the evidence on camera that he was continuing to be overly touchy with female players.
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Nov 16, 2019 16:54
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Max posted:Yeah ultimately, it is not and should not be Kellee's responsibility to make a call on what to do about Dan outside of the context of the game. She is there to play survivor, knowing what to do about someone else's inappropriate behavior is not her job in that context, it's the producers job. I know people were dumping on Jeff for making it a big thing but seeing that interview and deciding something actually did have to be said to everyone is the correct response in that situation, though I wish he had gone a step further and just removed him. The producer breaking the fourth wall to say "is there anything you want us to do" is fine but also not a question to be asked, they should just do it given their position. Should they, though? From a gameplay perspective? What if removing Dan changes the power balance in the game enough that somebody winds up losing that wouldn't have otherwise? What if Kellee was correct in the idea that having Dan removed would cause other players to treat her differently? What if Kellee planned on using bad will generated by Dan's actions as a gameplay element? Dan wasn't, to the best of my knowledge, raping players. She felt uncomfortable with unwanted physical contact and he did not honor her requests to stop. She is 100% in the right, he is 100% in the wrong. If she'd asked for intervention, I'd expect him to get a single warning, then get ejected from the game, period. But an entire part of the game is 'doing things that other players don't like.' Again, to the best of my knowledge, she didn't feel sexually threatened or unsafe, just, for lack of a better term, skeeved out. I don't think that rises to the level of 'forced ejection,' like, say, Brandon Hantz was. It absolutely rises to the level of 'producer intervention,' which there was. Like it or not, the producers also have to thread a fine line of 'how much is she playing?' Maybe she's hamming it up for the camera. Jamal pointed out the idea of 'believe victims,' yet we had players who had just admitted that they exaggerated things for gameplay purposes.
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Nov 16, 2019 19:26
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TheCenturion posted:Should they, though? From a gameplay perspective? What if removing Dan changes the power balance in the game enough that somebody winds up losing that wouldn't have otherwise? What if Kellee was correct in the idea that having Dan removed would cause other players to treat her differently? What if Kellee planned on using bad will generated by Dan's actions as a gameplay element? If someone is a safety concern, that is a much higher priority than considering the strategic effect their removal from the game will have. When Neal was medevaced (with an idol!) in Kaoh Rong it completely screwed up the Brains tribe's place in the merge tribe and messed up Aubry's game in particular. The other thing is even if nobody is currently reporting feeling unsafe, the producers have a duty to be proactive. Dan repeatedly made physical contact with Kellee after she explicitly told him to stop. After that point he is no longer someone you can trust around others and it's now at the point where it could very easily escalate to an unsafe situation. Even if Kellee was currently "fine" with the situation (she clearly wasn't) and even if she didn't insist on production intervention (not her duty to insist), the producers have a duty to prevent it from getting to the point where it becomes unsafe. When they medevac'd Neal in Kaoh Rong, they did so BEFORE the infection was bad enough to require amputation.
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Nov 16, 2019 19:40
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STAC Goat posted:The way they described it they gave everyone a refresher on the "code of conduct" and then pulled Dan aside and specifically told him this was his "warning". So he was either lying when he insisted he had no idea or he just did that narcissistic thing where you assume everyone is getting a warning because of some other person. It's the latter, and you could tell by how he acted and spoke at tribal. He legitimately doesn't understand what the problem is.
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Nov 16, 2019 20:34
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Who the gently caress cares if it messes up alliances? No one should have to be on that island with a sex offender. It’s lucky he didn’t do anything worse. Though he kind of did, except Elizabeth was ok with him putting his hand on her crotch. Doing nothing doesn’t protect Kellee from the consequences of his removal. It implicitly creates another hurdle she has to clear to find relief. They can remove him by saying “we have cameras following you 24/7, we received no complaints, but this is a violation of our code of conduct.” After one warning is fine, but that warning comes in the first or second episode.
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Nov 16, 2019 20:59
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resident posted:My wife and I are both feeling very FWIW this makes sense to me but the general societal gaslighting of the Trump administration and hellworld timeline may have ground my good judgment down to a bone. 
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Nov 17, 2019 01:21
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Anyways those episodes were gross, they left me feeling gross and I'm glad the outcome was spoiled for me before I watched them with my young daughters because jesus christ they'll find out about poo poo like that eventually but not yet. Count me in as one of the people who couldn't believe Kellee didn't start screaming or throwing punches Dan's way during tribal.
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Nov 17, 2019 01:48
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I think Kellee's body language said it all. It seems like all of this might make for a really ugly jury and a lot of tough to deal with resentments different ways. But its weird because all the apologies being thrown out by the cast members make it sound like this is the first they've thought about it since then. There's no indication that it was an issue at Ponderosa or the Final Tribal.
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Nov 17, 2019 01:56
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Whether Dan goes to Ponderosa or ends up at the Final Three, I don't know if I want to be there when they're capturing him and Kellee interacting again. On camera. Urgh.
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Nov 17, 2019 02:17
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| # ? May 23, 2024 17:55 |
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Dan's Final Tribal comes to a halt as the cast debates if touching should fall under Outwit, Outplay, or Outlast.
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Nov 17, 2019 02:22
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