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KoRMaK posted:Just had a thought - Keene was supposed to get kidnapped, he was in on it. It was probably a way for him to get taken to 7k HQ without blowing his cover. When Kenne first sits down with Mirror Guy, he gets asked if he's still trying to disguise his voice and during that conversation mentions that the Oklahoma's Racist Yokels don't know his real identity.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:17
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It was a bit out of character for Looking Glass to just try holding all of 7K with a single gun, without waiting for the backup he called for. Would be better if he was caught while sneaking around.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:18
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From his POV he's watching a bunch of idiots play hackie sack with an armed nuclear weapon. He's going in there right that instant.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:23
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ymgve posted:It was a bit out of character for Looking Glass to just try holding all of 7K with a single gun, without waiting for the backup he called for. Would be better if he was caught while sneaking around. Yeah that did seem odd to me. It seems like guns are a lot more heavily controlled so all I can think is he was expecting them to be unarmed and the sight of the portal sent him over the edge. When he found the cartirdge in the back of the truck he seemed to know what it was and that impacted his judgement.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:23
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plus he’s a bit drunk
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Nov 18, 2019 17:23
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JethroMcB posted:According to Peteypedia an overdose of Nostalgia can trigger, among many other possible side effects, "explosive flatulence" Trieu Pharma is located at “One Waverider Plaza” in Saigon. Waverider is a DC Comics hero who travels back in time to stop the rise of a tyrant named Monarch. He is transformed into a superhuman by exposure to the time stream. His power is to see the future of a person by touching them. Monarch was originally supposed to be Captain Atom, the inspiration for Doc 212.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:23
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HppyCmpr posted:When Kenne first sits down with Mirror Guy, he gets asked if he's still trying to disguise his voice and during that conversation mentions that the Oklahoma's Racist Yokels don't know his real identity. He gets asked if he's going to even try to disguise his voice, which has a different connotation to it, and then Keane says something about forgetting he even still had the mask on, which makes it seem more like he's loose with them knowing it's him.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:26
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The Dave posted:He gets asked if he's going to even try to disguise his voice, which has a different connotation to it, and then Keane says something about forgetting he even still had the mask on, which makes it seem more like he's loose with them knowing it's him. I will check but I'm pretty sure he was asked, "Are you going to keep bothering to disguise your voice?". Edit: We are both partially wrong he says "Are you even trying to disguise your voice, Senator" to which the Senator says he is being rude and that the mask and the accent are just for them and motions outside the room. I would say this favours him keeping his identity secret and I don't see why he would trust low level lackies with his identity either; considering this is supposed to be a large and widespread conspiracy if we takes Will's statement to Angela to heart. I'd assume the reason he says he forgot he has the mask on is because he's having to wear it so much around them. The senator does make an effort to adjust his voice when he's talking with the mask on. That whole conversation did not once give me an indication that the foot solidiers knew who he was and he mentions that both him and the chief are there from another cell or district to keep control on the 7th Cavalry. So I'm assuming the chief also ran the place without revealing his identity though that is a bit of a reach. HppyCmpr fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 17:31
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Yeah, I'm guessing Keene set up his own kidnapping but didn't reveal his identity while doing so. He knew where he'd be.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:32
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KoRMaK posted:Right so the electric cars aren't new, they were in the original, to answer that other posters question. Nah. As seen, he was able to head to the warehouse whenever he drat well pleased. The kidnapping was a scam in order to boost him politically. Politician gets kidnapped at funeral of hero cop, bravely goes with kidnapper to protect everyone and the later escapes, leading to mass public approval. He might have also done it in order to disappear entirely for an extended period, but he doesn't seem too unhappy about the outcome, so I doubt it. As for why the deadmans switch was real? Urge not to get taken alive/not realizing it himself? It is a little weird, but mostly in that americans typically don't use suicide vests at all, so the motivations aren't really familiar to american eyes. Ugly In The Morning posted:Because the 7K don't know that Keene is running them, that's why he was wearing the mask in the headquarters. They probably went with whatever plan they would usually have, and he couldn't tell them "hey, maybe don't do the bomb thing" without blowing his cover. Considering they were taking the guns off of everyone going into the funeral he probably figured it wouldn't be an issue. There is no way they don't know. They defer to him, he isn't disguising his voice and has a position of authority in a group that would undoubtably want to know who he really is at some point before trusting him. They've almost certainly seen the video, which means they'd want to know how he got it, and he has his mask off in the headquarters. If they didn't know it was him that would be insanely risky.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:40
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Caros posted:There is no way they don't know. They defer to him, he isn't disguising his voice and has a position of authority in a group that would undoubtably want to know who he really is at some point before trusting him. They've almost certainly seen the video, which means they'd want to know how he got it, and he has his mask off in the headquarters. If they didn't know it was him that would be insanely risky. I couldn't disagree with you more. They don't know who he is and he makes it very clear that they are controlled by a large organization that resides outside Tulsa. This would fall inline with Will saying there's a massive conspiracy underway in Tulsa that Angela doesn't understand. They defer to him because he's been sent down to replace the Chief after he's been murdered not because they know his real identity. I would assume that he's not the head of the organization either, he's just an influential member that they've supported and guided to a position of power which parrels with the Veidt and Redford in the video. Some of the stuff on Peteypedia shines a light on how extreme the factions of the right and left have gotten in the Watchmen universe. Edit: He even mentions that these group of Yokels needs someone down here to keep the peace, it's not like he thinks highly of them as you can tell by how he speaks about them. I'd imagine the bomb plan came in response to the killing of their Chief and it's potentially a few extreme elements of the "terrorist cell" acting out on their own before he exerts control. HppyCmpr fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 17:44
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Just a thought: with cloning rife in this universe, Nostalgia becomes a way for genetic copies of a person to also retain their memories. That could have some implications on the plot. Is there any chance that someone we've seen looks like a different person but actually has the same brain/memories as their other self? Probably not, but it could mean that Trieu isn't actually who she seems—or anyone else, for that matter.
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Nov 18, 2019 17:46
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feedmyleg posted:Just a thought: with cloning rife in this universe, Nostalgia becomes a way for genetic copies of a person to also retain their memories. That could have some implications on the plot. Is there any chance that someone we've seen looks like a different person but actually has the same brain/memories as their other self? Probably not, but it could mean that Trieu isn't actually who she seems—or anyone else, for that matter. I feel like Trieu’s daughter is probably a clone with some of Trieu’s memories
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Nov 18, 2019 17:47
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JethroMcB posted:According to Peteypedia an overdose of Nostalgia can trigger, among many other possible side effects, "explosive flatulence" Sister Night's going to rocket herself to Veidt's moon.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:02
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A small but crucially important point about Rorschach's journal. Cause people on message boards are like "Rorschach mailed the details of Veidt's plan!" . No, Rorschach strongly SUGGESTED that Veidt was behind the death of Comedian, framing of Dr. Manhattan, etc. He didn't learn about a giant squid until after he mailed his journal and departed for Antarctica with Nite Owl II.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:10
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veidt did 11/2!!! Teleporters can't cross dimensions!!!
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Nov 18, 2019 18:22
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JethroMcB posted:According to Peteypedia an overdose of Nostalgia can trigger, among many other possible side effects, "explosive flatulence" Bold direction to take the show and sure to be as divisive as the rest of it
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Nov 18, 2019 18:30
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On rewatch, I don't mind the flashbacks as much; I saw them as trying to ape Nolan stuff like The Prestige or the Dark Knight movies where the main character flashes back quickly at critical moments to give you their mindset at that moment (while also simultaneously helping the audience, because, as you see with Nolan stuff, even when people talk directly into the audience and tell people exactly what is going on, a lot still don't get it, haha). It wasn't done quite as well as he does it, but it's not as bad now that I knew it was coming.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:32
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HppyCmpr posted:I couldn't disagree with you more. FWIW I thought it was presented and supposed to be taken the same way Caros did. It didn't seem like he was doing much at all to hide himself in the HQ.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:32
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The opening of this episode made me realize that for as fully-realized as the alternate history stuff is in every other sense they just couldn't be bothered to make new songs. Movies, television, and comic books are all new and different after the point of divergence but pop music is a universal constant because you absolutely have to have a slow distorted version of Careless Whispers playing during a scene of carnage and trauma just to make absolutely sure that the audience Gets It.Revol posted:American Hero Story is supposed to be a lie, right? But I believe the original comic did say that he was gay. It absolutely did, and the weird joke that the entire genesis of superheroes was a gay guy into rough trade going out and beating up people in a costume to get off is pretty homophobic 80s artifact in retrospect. Servaetes posted:Wade's gonna be okay, right...? Nonsense, Watchmen would never have a disaffected man who always wears a mask and sees the world in moral absolutism and is shaped by a severe trauma in his life be blown away immediately after having his worldview shattered by the revelation about the origin of the extradimensional squid attacks. 
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Nov 18, 2019 18:40
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Forgot to mention, did a big "Yesss!" at the Architects of Fear reference. It's the one meta reference in the show I've unequivocally loved so far.Sleeveless posted:The opening of this episode made me realize that for as fully-realized as the alternate history stuff is in every other sense they just couldn't be bothered to make new songs. Movies, television, and comic books are all new and different after the point of divergence but pop music is a universal constant because you absolutely have to have a slow distorted version of Careless Whispers playing during a scene of carnage and trauma just to make absolutely sure that the audience Gets It. Would've been rad if they kept the same melodies but changed the lyrics.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:42
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On rewatch the can of beans feels a little too on the nose, 2/10
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Nov 18, 2019 18:47
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I didn't mind the flashbacks to the 80s and stuff but the quick cuts to things like his hat after someone mentions not obsessively covering themselves in tinfoil or the cut to the 7K photo after Wade walked into the church were the worst type of "assume the audience is stupid" editing.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:48
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nooneofconsequence posted:I didn't mind the flashbacks to the 80s and stuff but the quick cuts to things like his hat after someone mentions not obsessively covering themselves in tinfoil or the cut to the 7K photo after Wade walked into the church were the worst type of "assume the audience is stupid" editing. I don’t really see it as the show assuming the audience is stupid. There’s no flashbacks like that in the other four episodes so far, they’re something that came with this episode being from LG’s perspective.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:51
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MaoistBanker posted:A small but crucially important point about Rorschach's journal. Cause people on message boards are like "Rorschach mailed the details of Veidt's plan!" . No, Rorschach strongly SUGGESTED that Veidt was behind the death of Comedian, framing of Dr. Manhattan, etc. He didn't learn about a giant squid until after he mailed his journal and departed for Antarctica with Nite Owl II. The first thing Veidt did when Rorschach and Nite Owl showed up was to confess and give all the details how he did it. They didn’t even know! Veidt’s ego is so monstrous he had to make sure they knew every detail so as to be impressed with the ruthlessness and brilliance of the Smartest Man In The World.
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Nov 18, 2019 18:56
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:The first thing Veidt did when Rorschach and Nite Owl showed up was to confess and give all the details how he did it. Which makes the people complaining about how the expository video in this episode is unrealistic or treating the audience like idiots even funnier, being an egomaniac who loves explaining his plans is kind of Veidt's whole thing.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:00
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The Veidt video had the eye of the squid behind him but they never zoomed out to show it and I was bummed
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Nov 18, 2019 19:01
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magiccarpet posted:The Veidt video had the eye of the squid behind him but they never zoomed out to show it and I was bummed Yeah I thought that’s what that was, I assume the rest of that video goes into specifics on the whole evil plot to save the world.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:04
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It would make more sense if the Jupiter moon Veidt is on isn't Europa, but rather Io. It's the input/output portal.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:05
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I don’t really see it as the show assuming the audience is stupid. There’s no flashbacks like that in the other four episodes so far, they’re something that came with this episode being from LG’s perspective. I don't know if editing was overseen by someone different or what, but when LG turns around and sees he's in the the 7th Kav chapel, and we get the flashback to the video, it's absolutely assuming we're stupid. They showed us the video again 15-20 minutes earlier and established the characters saying "we need to find this church", and then even included another scene of people looking at pictures of sanctuaries and discussing how you discern which is which denomination. We don't need that cut, and if they're trying to show us LG's thought process to establish what a good detective is, they need to do it with something less obvious. The chapel flashback comes across like a Hot Fuzz gag. General Dog fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 19:09
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I watched the movie before last night's episode and it's just jarring how badly Veidt was adapted for the film Having a good chuckle at Young Jeremy Irons recording that eccentric goofball video with a smile on his face, and then one day later giving that grim solemn speech to the watchmen at the north pole or wherever Episode was good except the ending is objectively bad. It's a format that works well for Netflix-style season binges but not a weekly release. Reminded me a lot of a season of Alias ages ago where they end the season with a guy getting plugged full of bullets and immediately fading to black so that people would wonder for months and months whether he'd live or die.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:10
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clown shoes posted:It would make more sense if the Jupiter moon Veidt is on isn't Europa, but rather Io. It's the input/output portal. Yeah, but that's not a 2001 reference.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:19
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I watched the movie before last night's episode and it's just jarring how badly Veidt was adapted for the film Ehhhh, the best read of the movie (and one that actually is backed up by the material) is that is a play off of film in the way that the book was a play off of comics, so movie characters from 2000-something that are playing off of what was released at that point are all going to come off a little different than comic characters up to the 80s. That would also include things like suits and how fights are visualized (basing things off of superhero movies released to that point like the Batman movies) and visualizations of what a tech billionare genius ubermensch like Viedt would look and act like. I love Irons' goofy take on the more comic-like version, though.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:24
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I watched the movie before last night's episode and it's just jarring how badly Veidt was adapted for the film West Wing S1 is the loving worst. Someone on the radio yelling "WHO'S BEEN HIT?! WHO'S BEEN HIT?!" after gunman fire into the Presidential motorcade as it fades to black. The DVD has the same music playing over the credits on each episode so this really loving happy and jaunty tune playing over the credits after every sad episode is the funniest loving thing I've ever heard
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Nov 18, 2019 19:24
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I watched the movie before last night's episode and it's just jarring how badly Veidt was adapted for the film Idk, a single episode cliff hanger isn’t nearly as big a deal as an entire season ending on some character being shot and bleeding out. I get it, you didn’t like Lost, but this was a great episode of television (despite the dumb editing of flashbacks interspersed).
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Nov 18, 2019 19:28
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Sleeveless posted:Which makes the people complaining about how the expository video in this episode is unrealistic or treating the audience like idiots even funnier, being an egomaniac who loves explaining his plans is kind of Veidt's whole thing. Watchmen is a story about supervillains where the bad guys win. That’s why Veidt complains he “has no villains to fight”, he is a loving supervillain. Even do-gooder actor Robert Redford is a morally compromised monster in the world of Watchmen. Also, psychics are totes real in that universe. What did 3 Million New Yorkers die from, a seafood allergy? There were no mass explosions, the Squid just appears and sends out very bad vibes, which are super fatal. Every time someone says Dr Manhattan can’t do something, drink a shot. I now put the odds he is hiding in plain sight the whole time at 75%. The American flag on Earth-HBO has a giant eye on it. Who’s watching? Agent Petey spends a lot of government time writing about Sally Jupiter’s rape and how it is portrayed in the media. Seems like a very pivotal moment in history.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:28
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beanieson posted:Idk, a single episode cliff hanger isn’t nearly as big a deal as an entire season ending on some character being shot and bleeding out. I get it, you didn’t like Lost, but this was a great episode of television despite the dumb editing of flashbacks interspersed. Why bring up Lost? Why claim it's a Big Deal? Calm down Just saying cliffhangers are bad in modern storytelling. There's a reason the term specifically refers to 19th century media when it was important to leave the audience unfulfilled
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Nov 18, 2019 19:31
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Why bring up Lost? Why claim it's a Big Deal? Calm down cause you were previously complaining about Lindeloff being a one trick pony? Just saying this isn’t a “hatch” type season cliffhanger I’m sure it’ll be resolved in the next episode.
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Nov 18, 2019 19:43
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Hm, you're reading in to my posts far too much. Like I said before, show is good, most recent ending bad, and I hope the guy doesn't end the series the way he's ended past series & the most recent episode. That's all :-) I'm at like a 3/10 on the Worried scale, mostly just watching a cool show and posting about it on the internet
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Nov 18, 2019 19:52
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There's nothing inherently wrong with cliffhangers unless your brain literally can't handle the delayed gratification
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Nov 18, 2019 19:59
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