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euphronius posted:Lmao. That’s what I thought. Well, I'm glad we're in agreement.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:34
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I just can't get over the moral of Poe's story being "just shut up and do as you're told, don't ask questions, your bosses know what they're doing and you have no right to an explanation".
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Nov 19, 2019 15:34
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Owen Lars is a military general ?
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Nov 19, 2019 15:34
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euphronius posted:Lars Skywalker is a military general ? Are you having a stroke?
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Nov 19, 2019 15:35
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I fixed it: Owen Lars
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Nov 19, 2019 15:35
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Jedi general Owen Lars ????
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Nov 19, 2019 15:36
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Horizon Burning posted:Are you having a stroke?
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Nov 19, 2019 15:37
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SimonCat posted:It's a picture of a woman who is an officer in the Navy. She looks professional and that she belongs on the bridge of a ship. If she was wearing an evening dress no one would assume she was in the command structure. I used a picture of an actual uniform as it was easier to find. you're confusing star wars and star trek. rebels / resistance are often shown in fighter pilot garb, but otherwise are they ever shown to have uniforms at all?
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Nov 19, 2019 15:38
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Uniforms are very important in a rigid command structure. It lets you know right away who is who. If holden hasn’t got one it’s because filmmakers want us to think she is different, eccentric and (most importantly) not military
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Nov 19, 2019 15:38
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Asgerd posted:I just can't get over the moral of Poe's story being "just shut up and do as you're told, don't ask questions, your bosses know what they're doing and you have no right to an explanation". The moral to his character arc is "don't be a hero", which is also the moral to Finn's character arc. It's also the moral that all of Leia's contacts seem to abide by since none of them decide to be a hero and show up. Rose goes into a coma to stop Finn from being a hero, her dying words are essentially "don't be a hero". Holdo is a hero and dies. Luke says don't be a hero and then decides to be one one last time and immediately dies. TLJ is so nihilistic and centrist. Don't be a hero, just follow orders. Things are bad just try and hold out for later. Don't fight the things you hate.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:40
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Wild Horses posted:Uniforms are very important in a rigid command structure. Other than her appearance what is not military about her Assuming her appearance isn’t military for arguments sake
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Nov 19, 2019 15:41
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The moral to his character arc is "don't be a hero", which is also the moral to Finn's character arc. It's also the moral that all of Leia's contacts seem to abide by since none of them decide to be a hero and show up. Rose goes into a coma to stop Finn from being a hero, her dying words are essentially "don't be a hero". Holdo is a hero and dies. Luke says don't be a hero and then decides to be one one last time and immediately dies. It’s “fight for things not against things” That’s different from “don’t be a hero”
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Nov 19, 2019 15:42
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That's stupid. Space Nazis are bad, and should be fought against.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:45
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Rose Tico would tackle that guy about to punch Richard Spencer and tell him to fight for things he loves, don't punch Nazis Finn it is wrong to sacrifice your life so that your friends can escape, you have to fight for things you love Luke: *sacrifices his life so his friends can escape*
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Nov 19, 2019 15:46
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Polo-Rican posted:you're confusing star wars and star trek. rebels / resistance are often shown in fighter pilot garb, but otherwise are they ever shown to have uniforms at all? Uh, yes?     And all the fighter pilots wear the same orange uniform, with the bomber pilots wearing tan. The Resistance is hardly a motley crew where everyone is wearing whatever. The maintenance guys all wear a similar thing, the pilots all wear a similar thing, and the military command staff all seem to wear a brown jacket with dark brown pants. That guy in the last shot is even called an Admiral on Wookieepedia. Even Leia's above outfit is remarkably similar to what the Resistance medic wears. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 15:46
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Wild Horses posted:It lets you know right away who is who. If holden hasn’t got one it’s because filmmakers want us to think she is different, eccentric and (most importantly) not military in the visual language of star wars, earthen-colored robes = wise, worldly, jedilike, has inner power. they honestly couldn't be clearer with this!
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Nov 19, 2019 15:46
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Leia wasn't a military member until Empire after which she wore military clothing. They put Holdo in a flowing dress because they were trying to evoke something from the previous films they failed to understand. She could very well be a civilian leader in charge of the fleet though, that could have been more interesting. I doubt someone who's that blatantly, and openly, of an rear end in a top hat would ever make it far enough to be an admiral or whatever she was.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:47
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porfiria posted:Not that this hasn't been pointed out before, but it's really notable how grounded the first two trilogies are in political conflicts with extremely clear real world analogues (democracy falling into despotism and insurgency/civil war). What is the ST even depicting? The closest thing seems to be Weimar Germany but, like, really dumb. Well that’s where we get into the authentically feminist take: factoring in all the socioeconomic context with her actions, Holdo knows the Resistance is poo poo. She could send people to activate the radio but doesn’t, because she knows in her heart that there’ll be no response. No backup is on the way. So, while she’s trying to keep morale up with inspirational speeches, Holdo’s actual goal is now merely to quit. The Resistance is over. They already have infinitely less support and funding under the New Republic than the Rebel Alliance did under the fuckin' Empire. No shields, no radios. Janky, prequel-era bombers. The Resistance is widely despised except by kids who still think James Bond is cool because he uses gadgets. This is why Holdo is so ready to sacrifice the three remaining ships, and why she prevents Poe fighting back. There’s no future for this organization. All she can do is minimize casualties. Keep in mind, of course, that Poe is also an idiot. A single rocket took out his entire airforce, and now his plan is to blow up these millions of capital ships, one-by-one, with harebrained schemes? This isn’t a Death Star situation where the baddies were in a tenuous position and put all their eggs in one basket. The First Order has ascended virtually unopposed, with overwhelming popular support and a stronger military than Palpatine’s. They don’t need fear to keep the local systems in line, because they are the local systems. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 15:50
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Holdo's home planet genuinely sounds like it was made up by chuds making a parody of "woke identity politics".Wookieepedia posted:Natives of Gatalenta were renowned for their calmness and serenity, and rose each day to thank the planet's multiple suns for rising.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:51
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euphronius posted:Other than her appearance what is not military about her Appearance IS what the military is. Everything is about the look, the uniform, the rank. Someone telling you they’re military is irrelevant
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Nov 19, 2019 15:54
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euphronius posted:Other than her appearance what is not military about her Her attitude towards her subordinates is condescending, she created a toxic command climate, and she failed to share key pieces of information of the operation with people who would have to support it.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:58
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Asgerd posted:Holdo's home planet genuinely sounds like it was made up by chuds making a parody of "woke identity politics". Of course they loved austerity
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Nov 19, 2019 15:58
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SimonCat posted:Her attitude towards her subordinates is condescending, That’s a strange criticism She’s by definition superior to her subordinates
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Nov 19, 2019 16:01
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Wild Horses posted:Appearance IS what the military is. Everything is about the look, the uniform, the rank. I have no idea what your talking about so will admit I’m wrong I guess.
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Nov 19, 2019 16:03
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euphronius posted:That’s a strange criticism 
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Nov 19, 2019 16:04
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Asgerd posted:Holdo's home planet genuinely sounds like it was made up by chuds making a parody of "woke identity politics". I lol'd for real.
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Nov 19, 2019 16:09
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euphronius posted:That’s a strange criticism I don't think you really understand what "rebellion" or "resistance" mean.
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Nov 19, 2019 16:12
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If you want to talk about "realistic," an officer in Holdo's position (taking an unfamiliar command in the middle of a high tension situation where their backs are against the wall) would have to be either actively fatalistic or unbelievably stupid to not loop people into their plans who might normally not be privy to it, as TLJ depicts the exact kind of situation where mutinies are a very real and present danger, because the people you are commanding aren't loyal to you, they're loyal to The Mission. This disregards the fact that Holdo and Poe's dynamic isn't meant to depict a "realistic" command structure, they're supposed to depict how everything is Poe's fault for not respecting his betters, and that everything would have gone off without a hitch if he could have just sat down and been Still With Her. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 16:13
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Asgerd posted:I don't think you really understand what "rebellion" or "resistance" mean. So... you are saying she’s not a military officer ? What are you saying
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Nov 19, 2019 16:14
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Palpatine was in charge of the galaxy and outranked everyone, so why didn't the rebels just do what he told them? 
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Nov 19, 2019 16:15
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Asgerd posted:Palpatine was in charge of the galaxy and outranked everyone, so why didn't the rebels just do what he told them? ? They were in a different chain of command ?
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Nov 19, 2019 16:16
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Are you under the impression that Holdo was a Sith or imperial ?
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Nov 19, 2019 16:17
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Asgerd posted:Palpatine was in charge of the galaxy and outranked everyone, so why didn't the rebels just do what he told them? He didn't relay it properly through the chain of command. And couldn't. It's Palpatine -> Tarkin -> Ozzle -> Antilles -> Leia -> and so on. Tarkin can't just tell Leia to do something, by the start of Empire those first three links are gone so command breaks down
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Nov 19, 2019 16:19
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euphronius posted:? But Palpatine was the highest legal authority in the galaxy, so why didn't they defer to him?
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Nov 19, 2019 16:25
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Asgerd posted:But Palpatine was the highest legal authority in the galaxy, so why didn't they defer to him? Do you know what a rebellion is ?
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Nov 19, 2019 16:27
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Horizon Burning posted:Are you having a stroke? No, this is just his posting
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Nov 19, 2019 16:28
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euphronius posted:Do you know what a rebellion is ? I think it typically involves people who don't blindly defer to the proper authorites and accept whatever bullshit their "leaders" tell them without question?
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Nov 19, 2019 16:28
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Asgerd posted:I think it typically involves people who don't blindly defer to the proper authorites and accept whatever bullshit their "leaders" tell them without question? Right so is the rebellion a military or not Are we criticizing Holdo for being too military or not enough ??
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Nov 19, 2019 16:31
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euphronius posted:Right so is the rebellion a military or not She demands dumb grunt obedience from her subordinates while having none of the professionalism herself, that's the whole problem.
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Nov 19, 2019 16:38
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So she’s not ideally military based on some theory of military - or naval I guess - leadership ?
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Nov 19, 2019 16:40
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