|
TheOrange posted:That felt so much more fitting and meaningful than all the expectations around it just being a third personality. It was really good and it hit hard and was really emotional. I liked it a lot as an episode. I honestly and sincerely wonder how him knowing THAT rolls into forward movement of the back half of the final season of this show. I mean, what does knowing do? How does it change him or his motivations? Does he spend one of the last crucial episodes left wallowing for a whole ep? Does he magically and quickly find himself "reborn" and altered in any measurable way? Does this change anything about his big hack/plan? I mean if it's going down "tonight", the next ep legit cannot be too far off this bomb that was dropped in his lap. How much can he be altered? That said, holy poo poo all 3 of the guys on that ep just loving CRUSHED their acting.
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 19:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 07:33 |
|
|
apatheticman posted:It's probably gonna end on the white rose project and Elliott making the choice to let it happen. He lets it happen. Screen fades to white at the climax of whatever it is... audience never knows exactly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 19:34
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:I would rather be child-murdered than child-molested and live a life with all the pain and complications it brings. They're both obviously horrible things and are super evil and in both a part of the child dies. That certainly is your prerogative, but many people who were molested as children still find a way to have good, meaningful, fulfilling lives that contain joy. I'm not advocating one over the other in the "Which is worse" argument. I'm just saying...
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 19:41
|
|
|
eke out posted:it'd be a really lovely sendoff of the character Slater's done so well at for a bunch of seasons now. also i don't think "as soon as the traumatic memories are revealed, the DID symptoms disappear" is going to be how they handle this Yeah, that was my initial take but I agree with you and I hope you're right.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 19:56
|
|
|
xtal posted:I don't like this reveal because a big part of the characters' motiviation so far was avenging Elliot's dad and Angela's mom's deaths at the plant. Angela was trying to convince Elliot to bring his dad back, even. I guess we could already see that Elliot hated his dad in the theatre flashback, but it feels like he doesn't have a reason to be motivated against E-Corp and Whiterose anymore (well, except all those people they killed later, but the original reason is no longer there.) Speaking of, I read a theory on Reddit talking about how the 3rd personality has been represented by Elliot wearing the mask. Whenever he's shown this way, or in an fsociety video, he doesn't remember it, but Mr. Robot either never mentions it to him or doesn't remember it either. I have a feeling that after this show ends, we're going to be combing back through early episodes for a long time to find all the seeds that were planted. Feenix posted:That said, holy poo poo all 3 of the guys on that ep just loving CRUSHED their acting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
Kloaked00 posted:What if Elliot ends up going along with White Rose’s plan, uses the time machine to try and go back to save himself from his dad, but because two Elliots can’t exist at the same time, he ends up becoming Mr Robot.... Paradoxes himself to become future rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
Nice post. Elliot also seems to be embodying the Marxist argument that economic servitude has taken away people's humanity, and this is the cause of many hosed up things you see in society. Marx blamed societal ills like domestic violence on the capitalist economic system, saying that it pushed people into taking out these anxieties on their loved ones and community in messed up ways. Sparking a revolution against the system itself is exactly what Marx prescribes for combating these evils in society. I do not agree with this point of view and I'm only speculating Esmail has this theme in mind, but given the relationship Elliot has with society's elites, it could be a grander narrative being unpacked. And of course, in the process, Elliot ends up becoming a pawn in someone else's game, which is how a lot of revolutions turn out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2019 23:30
|
|
|
I'm viscerally angry at that episode, gently caress esmail He used the stupidest possible staging (Vera) to pull trite molestation repressed memory poo poo in the least authentic way possible Considering Darlene apparently knew all along and could have helped we were robbed of those characters interacting and instead a forced oh I do remember now , you're rihht to ask if I was molested
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Wow what an episode of tv. Great performances from everyone. Was the whole point of Vera to just break Elliot for the reveal? Did Vera further the plot in any meaningful way prior to this (aside from killing Shayla)?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
I'm very conflicted about that episode. I thought the acting was incredible but on the writing side it just didn't come together for me. Vera is such a surreal, unrealistic character in pretty much every aspect, and for me he clashed tonally with the reveal and the nastiness of the kidnapping. Maybe that's supposed to make the character more unsettling or menacing or whatever but instead it pulled me out of the story and took away the emotional weight of the reveal, and badly cheapened it for me. Somehow this sequence both bored me and felt rushed, like the characters were moving through each beat too quickly, but it also I was a step or two ahead of the characters the whole way.mastershakeman posted:I'm viscerally angry at that episode, gently caress esmail Basically this
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:26
|
|
|
I don't know how I feel about some of the elements of this episode. It seemed to be going for a more theatrical work, just two rooms, a few characters and killer acting. But that seemed to conflict with the swelling music, overdramatic thunder/lightning and some hamfisted lines - "Did your father sexually molest you?" kind of stuck out to me. I dunno, it was an important episode to the overall series and some of the choices he made seemed to lessen the impact. I think it would have played better without the overt and intentional cheese and just letting the scenes and characters speak for themselves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
One of the things I complained about for the last few episodes was a complete lack of concern for the show's own timeline, and that's very much still happening. The last 4 or so (?) episodes have all taken place within a 24 hour period but other than literal countdown clock on the firmware patch no one seems concerned AT ALL with the absolutely hard deadline of the Deus hack. It seems clear to me that Esmail has very little interest in telling the story this season and is only concerned with creating spectacle / high "art", regardless of what that means for the pacing or the plot. Thankfully it's been working for the most part, but it doesn't give me much confidence in the wrap up. I could be wrong, but to me this has always been an extremely PLOT driven show, and this season has killed off tons of main characters, barely affecting the story, and has spun its wheels every step of the way. Still enjoying the season and think it's too early to judge, but what else do I have to do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:44
|
|
|
The music, the acts.. definitely felt like it was set up like a movie. But the way the lights went out at the end felt like a play or something.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:45
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:I'm viscerally angry at that episode, gently caress esmail Darlene very pointedly did not know all along. She remembers Edward fondly to the point where she's killed for his memory. The whole window incident was precipitated by Elliot trying to hide the molestation from Darlene. This was a very tense and good episode, and the twist perfectly explains so much of Elliot's character and background. It's a hell of a lot better than Darlene being some Manchurian Candidate handler feeding Elliot backstory on Whiterose's behalf, or Mr. Robot being Edward's soul on a chip in Elliot's brain, or whatever. Whiterose totally knew the whole time, though? She probably used that knowledge to own Edward, and has spoken highly of the rage Elliot suffers as a consequence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:50
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:I'm viscerally angry at that episode, gently caress esmail I dont really know how you do it without Vera. Especially if you want to keep the rest of the seasons plot points. Without Vera hes suddenly going to therapy again?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 01:55
|
|
|
apatheticman posted:I dont really know how you do it without Vera. Especially if you want to keep the rest of the seasons plot points. Without Vera hes suddenly going to therapy again? Pretty much any framing you could come with would make more sense than Vera coming out of the woodwork. His character wasn't compelling to me at all anymore because he's a shrimp compared to the Dark Army. Even Elliot isn't afraid of him anymore.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 02:43
|
|
|
I wonder if the events of this episode are even meant to be taken literally, since it all felt so staged. Hasn't it been freezing cold and snowing in New York over the last several days and suddenly now there's a rainy thunderstorm going on? And there's no natural way for the lights to go out like that, one item at a time for dramatic effect. It really feels more and more like Esmail is preoccupied with his high art gimmicks for each episode instead of actually keeping the story coherent and bringing it to an end. Either Darleen knew about what happened when they were kids and she choose the handle Dolores Haze anyways, or she didn't know and it was an total coincidence. I'm not sure which of those I dislike more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 03:13
|
|
|
Catsplosion I wish I could analyze content a fifth of the way that you do. Your breakdown was as masterful as the acting on this episode. I legit thought you were just c/o from some article but then were responding to goons and just kept going. Bravo
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:I wonder if the events of this episode are even meant to be taken literally, since it all felt so staged. Hasn't it been freezing cold and snowing in New York over the last several days and suddenly now there's a rainy thunderstorm going on? And there's no natural way for the lights to go out like that, one item at a time for dramatic effect. It really feels more and more like Esmail is preoccupied with his high art gimmicks for each episode instead of actually keeping the story coherent and bringing it to an end. This crossed my mind to, that the scene was Elliott's representation of the realization of the truth. It's been done in the series before so there's precedent. Whatever it was, it was pretty damned beautiful. I wonder if it stands alone for folks who haven't watched the show. It's pretty self contained for the most part and the audience would figure the multiple personality part out fast.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 03:57
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:Hasn't it been freezing cold and snowing in New York over the last several days and suddenly now there's a rainy thunderstorm going on? I've never lived anywhere it's snowed. What's wrong with that? It doesn't Thunderstorm when it snows?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 03:58
|
|
|
Putting aside the existence of Thundersnow, unless I'm forgetting something, the only heavy snow we saw was out in the woods upstate. They were literally up in the hills where because of the geography/elevation they get a lot more snow than NYC proper, and it stick around longer. The only snow we've seen in Manhattan was the barest amount of dirty snow leftover on the sidewalks in the scene last week where Vera's crew grabbed Elliott off of the street. There wasn't any snow on the sidewalks or in Central Park when Elliot did his giant chase with the cops, etc. I live in Brooklyn, and I definitely had to walk to an Urgent Care that was closed and then to a hospital on Christmas Eve a couple of years prior to the events of the show, and it was jacket weather and rainy. Looking it up, it got up to 70 degrees on Christmas Eve 2015 (only up to 64 on Christmas Day) the year the show takes place, and it was rainy but not thunderstormy. You can say it's cheap poetic license, but I don't think a thunderstorm on Christmas Day is anything hinting at a lack of reality.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 04:21
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:It really feels more and more like Esmail is preoccupied with his high art gimmicks for each episode instead of actually keeping the story coherent and bringing it to an end. Edge & Christian posted:You can say it's cheap poetic license, but I don't think a thunderstorm on Christmas Day is anything hinting at a lack of reality. There is also the reality that this show isn't super high budget and they were forced to film all of the New York stuff in the height of Summer. I'm impressed they managed to have an ice skating ring present during the foot chase.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 05:15
|
|
|
Unreliable narrator plus unreliable POV sets up some fun internet conversations. I just assumed the storm wasn't real, you know, considering the ALF episode...
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 05:23
|
|
|
Looten Plunder posted:There is also the reality that this show isn't super high budget and they were forced to film all of the New York stuff in the height of Summer. I'm impressed they managed to have an ice skating ring present during the foot chase. This season was delayed over a year because they insisted on filming it in New York in the winter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 05:24
|
|
|
Did Mr Robot touch Alf??
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 07:39
|
|
|
Welp, whether you wanted a DaveKap post or not, you're gonna get it. This episode is an insane unpacking process and hopefully I mention some stuff nobody here, or on Reddit, has brought to light yet and bring something to the discussion... without too much hate. Real quick, I wanna get it out of the way now Zaphod42 posted:This was definitely planned all from the start. fullroundaction posted:Thankfully it's been working for the most part, but it doesn't give me much confidence in the wrap up. fullroundaction posted:It seems clear to me that Esmail has very little interest in telling the story this season and is only concerned with creating spectacle / high "art", regardless of what that means for the pacing or the plot. Case in point and the majority of my argument for why this episode wasn't good: This episode is a theatrical release. Like, sit down and watch people perform on a stage kind of theater. The episode has 5 acts, like Shakespeare (I am looking this stuff as I write it, I'm no scholar) https://www.storyboardthat.com/articles/e/five-act-structure You're supposed to feel like you're watching a play as you watch it. It's a very interesting idea! I don't know if any other show has had a bottle episode like this and it could be the most original type of direction Esmail has done to date! However, I don't believe Esmail lived up to the love and care a real master would have put in. What ruins it? A lot. First is the music. In order to push the theme of watching a classic play, the first 3 acts have extremely silly, hammy music that completely deteriorates the deathly serious matters at hand. It's music that fits classical theater, which successfully pushes the vibe the episodes trying to give off, but is poor taste considering the reveal we get. Second is the writing. Vera is, in the end, a very silly character. Don't get me wrong, I loving love his writing but, again, we're given a playful nature to this episode as the cameraman literally gets bored of Vera's long speech about what he did "Down in the DR" to give us a nice split-room oner that lets us know Krista is tied up in the room next door. If the camera's getting bored of Vera's silly story, then the weight behind Vera's writing is lightened to the point of comedy. Third is the environmental cues. The lightning being used as emphasis for what a character is saying. The lighting turning off to end the entire show. It's cute, fun, hammy, and betrays the seriousness. Lastly (unless I come up with more stuff and edit it in later) is the cinematography. We get some rather pointed camera movements that were decent and very "classic" in terms of drama, literally emphasizing "dramatic" events through careful action. https://i.imgur.com/PGd800w.mp4 It's not what you're used to with Mr. Robot... but it's also not what you're used to outside of daytime soaps. This particular shot reminded me of an extremely cool House of Cards shot that was so good, it got its own articles (none of which I can find right now and it's actually pissing me off because it's so drat good) but this one is actually a lower-effort, cheaper version of it as the camera's angling is more-or-less static and, somehow, the zoom is almost too smooth like you're watching a film entirely made of CG. Again, it feels like it's for show and glam and not handled with enough care. In the end, this theatrical setting is wonderfully realized and would have made for fantastic television... if it weren't for the fact that the big reveal is the molestation of the main character as a child set against extremely dramatic close-up shots. This scene was basically antithetical to the entire lead-up of the episode. It felt wrong. It felt gross. It felt distasteful. Separated out, it was fantastic television. Together, it felt like mashing an episode of The Orville into an episode of True Detective. It was a juxtaposition that some will find brilliant while others (me) will find ham-fisted. That is, purely, why I disliked this episode. Either remove the silliness present in Acts 1-3 (and the little bit that shows up in 4-5) or don't reveal sexual molestation as a plot twist. Revealing who the third persona was actually would have fit in really well, as the dual personality motif has been, IMHO, used comically more than anything else (one personality ruffles through papers while the other is on a laptop, it makes no sense and is, thus, hilarious to me.) However, those aren't my final thoughts on this episode. I have positive things to say too! The acting was phenomenal. You can basically see Elliot reacting to his memories of the moments he tried so hard to suppress. Vera is a delight. Krista is on point. Mr. Robot is the most Mr. Robot he's been since the end of Season 1. I loved it. The camera was fun. It was very nice not having everyone be off to the side for a change and the angles used for static shots were typically interesting and well thought out. The writing was ridiculously entertaining. Especially that Mr. Robot rant. Why have we lost you to describing metaphor and allegory to us via narration? Speaking of which this was episode 407 which is... 407 Proxy Authentication Required Vera was our Proxy Authentication to learn about Elliot's true past. Nicely done there. Finally, I love the fact that people are now going to be pouring over prior episodes finding the extremely dark ways this was telegraphed from the start. In fact, it made me go back and watch the first episode's first scene, which is on YouTube. It's there that I was reminded of what this show has truly lost since then... the music. The phenomenal original soundtrack of Season 1 has left us. Oddly, we've still got the talented Mac Quayle composing so I'm not sure why we're not getting the sweetest of sweet tunes we once had. mastershakeman posted:Considering Darlene apparently knew all along and could have helped we were robbed of those characters interacting and instead a forced oh I do remember now , you're rihht to ask if I was molested xtal posted:Angela was trying to convince Elliot to bring his dad back, even. Zaphod42 posted:So is it safe to assume Mr. Robot is basically gone now? Feenix posted:He lets it happen. Screen fades to white at the climax of whatever it is... audience never knows exactly. Edge & Christian posted:Looking it up, it got up to 70 degrees on Christmas Eve 2015 (only up to 64 on Christmas Day) the year the show takes place, and it was rainy but not thunderstormy. Edit: Oh yeah, I definitely started off this episode saying to my friend "oh yeah before we get started, I bet Vera is the third personality." What's funny about this is that if you watch the episode with this in mind, it almost feels like it could have actually been the case. Too bad you can't stab a personality. ...okay that's all I got for now. I'm probably forgetting a couple things because, y'know, mega-posting. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Nov 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 11:12
|
|
|
DaveKap posted:This scene was basically antithetical to the entire lead-up of the episode. It felt wrong. It felt gross. It felt distasteful. Kind of like being molested as a child by your father?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 11:20
|
|
|
blunt posted:Kind of like being molested by your father as a child? If you don't mind me elaborating a bit here: I laughed at very inappropriate times during this episode because of the weird juxtaposition. If the entire episode was truly dramatic, I would have felt empathy and sadness in the end. Instead I felt bemusement and incredulity at how the episode was constructed. The impact of the twist was a complete flop to me while a better-constructed episode would have had me applauding my computer monitor. That's why these arguments never work for me. If you disassociate me from your piece of entertainment just enough, there is no way I will "feel like the character" at the most important time. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Nov 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 11:22
|
|
|
Good point about the music. I listen to the soundtracks on spotify, quite fun as the songs themselves riff off of moods during the show, and almost become the pacesetter themselves. This season, much less of that. Maybe they couldn't afford to throw in the usual 2 obscure pop songs an episode? (Not cheap to license those).
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 11:37
|
|
|
LuckySevens posted:Good point about the music. I listen to the soundtracks on spotify, quite fun as the songs themselves riff off of moods during the show, and almost become the pacesetter themselves. This season, much less of that. Maybe they couldn't afford to throw in the usual 2 obscure pop songs an episode? (Not cheap to license those). I want more of this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1z5y8mMi6M&t=267s Comparing this to later season compositions, it sorta feels like Mac ran out of steam. 
DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Nov 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 11:44
|
|
|
Ok, good for you? I guess I should ask for permission before expanding on a point you've made?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 13:25
|
|
|
I kinda feel like Mac is still delivering stellar soundtracks myself. When the episode lends itself towards it. (everything from kill-process last season was perfection).
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 14:04
|
|
|
I took a look over at reddit and it seems the popular sentiment now is “if you thought this show had anything to do with hacking, or intricate plot twists, or mysteries the audience was supposed to solve you’re basically a knuckle dragging invalid who should just watch the transformers and fast and furious movies because the show has never been about those things”. Maybe I am just dumb, but I did believe those things. Not sure how they reconcile the ARG but I guess my low IQ doesn’t allow me to think on their level.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 14:23
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:I would rather be child-murdered than child-molested and live a life with all the pain and complications it brings. They're both obviously horrible things and are super evil and in both a part of the child dies. I'd like you to consider for a moment what this might read like to someone who has survived child-molestation and is managing to live their life, with all the pain and complications it brings. Cus seriously, what you said is loving awful.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 15:59
|
|
|
I also feel like the timeline of Vera coming back, talking to eliots other personality?? Leaving, coming back again and it not being addressed well is just a big pile of nonsense that isn't going to be explained well and was used just for big mystery shock poo poo
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 16:29
|
|
|
I can't believe Elliot can summon thunder just by yelling. That's power, bruh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 16:34
|
|
|
he explained exactly why he left and came back in the episode
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 16:35
|
|
|
d0grent posted:he explained exactly why he left and came back in the episode But didn't Darlene say Eliot had told her he'd handled it, and Eliot was confused on that? Maybe I missed something in Vera's interminable monologue but it didn't sound like Eliot had anything to do with Vera leaving or why a third personality would have surfaced for that encounter
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 17:27
|
|
|
Vera left because he had escaped prison. He needed somewhere to go and also had aspirations of taking over his homeland. He came back because he didn't feel fulfilled. Darlene told Elliot that Vera came looking for him a few months ago and Elliot didn't remember being told this.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 17:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 07:33 |
|
|
But didn't Darlene say Eliot told her at the time that he had "handled it" Im barely remembering because I was super frustrated with the potential third personality Ah I'm misremembering the end of season 3, I thought Vera came up to Eliot , but actually he came up to Darlene . No wonder I was so confused mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Nov 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2019 17:45
|
|