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zonohedron posted:So when high school kids get taught how to cross-examine opposing debaters, they're instructed not to ask questions where they don't know the answer; they're not asking because they're curious, they're asking so that the judge (or panel of judges, in finals rounds) hears the answer. yeah part of why he's so bad at this is that he already had literally hours at a deposition to feel out the answers to ALL these questions, yet he still keeps asking questions that are damaging to his case, like https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1196821548671340549 the average viewer doesn't even know that they cancelled a Pence visit to punish Ukraine. now they know something shady happened, which they didn't suspect before, even if they don't know exactly why
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Nov 19, 2019 17:08
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oxsnard posted:they take meticulous notes as part of the job and have agendas reviewed constantly Yeah, I get it, but it's just so above my paygrade it's really impressive. I was on a conference call at work last week and I can name the people in the room with me, but I could not name all the people on the phone. It just points to the professionalism these people have.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:08
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https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1196823455318102016
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Nov 19, 2019 17:12
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"Did you get offered defense minister?" "Yes" "Did you say yes?" "No" "Then what?" "I told my chain of command." "But it was an honor, right?" "It would be an honor to nurture developing democracies, but I'm an American. I came here when I was a toddler. I immediately dismissed the offers." Castor's trying to prove that Vindman has allegiances to Ukraine, that he's un-American because he's an immigrant.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:12
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Haha, Ukraine offered Vindman the job of the head of the Ministry of Defense!? WTF.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:12
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1glitch0 posted:Yeah, I get it, but it's just so above my paygrade it's really impressive. I was on a conference call at work last week and I can name the people in the room with me, but I could not name all the people on the phone. It just points to the professionalism these people have. I think if your career and / or legal freedom depended on it, you'd probably work really hard to memorize all the details.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:13
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zonohedron posted:"Did you get offered defense minister?" "Yes" "Did you say yes?" "No" "Then what?" "I told my chain of command." "But it was an honor, right?" "It would be an honor to nurture developing democracies, but I'm an American. I came here when I was a toddler. I immediately dismissed the offers." I can't believe they went with the Tom Clancy bullshit and thought it would work 
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Nov 19, 2019 17:14
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gently caress this dual loyalty smear bullshit.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:15
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He needed to continue his doodies.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:15
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sim posted:I think if your career and / or legal freedom depended on it, you'd probably work really hard to memorize all the details. Yeah, I've clearly found my place in the world. If I kept rising I'd end up on CNN drunk telling all the crimes by accident.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:16
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1glitch0 posted:Yeah, I get it, but it's just so above my paygrade it's really impressive. I was on a conference call at work last week and I can name the people in the room with me, but I could not name all the people on the phone. It just points to the professionalism these people have. Lower-level folks (which Vindman would be, compared to the ambassadors or whomever) are expected or required to take piles and piles of notes for important meetings. Pre-meeting prep identifying all of the participants/titles is key.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:16
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Angry_Ed posted:I can't believe they went with the Tom Clancy bullshit and thought it would work Once again it's "don't ask questions if you don't already know the answer" - unless Castor is trying to demonstrate that Vindman is an absolutely unimpeachable witness (pun not intended), it has to be a fishing expedition, trying to get something for Fox News where Vindman indicates that he likes Ukraine better than Our Glorious Leader, Trump the Trumpfulness.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:16
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'He called it an irregular but not outlandish channel' No he didn't! Castor, you called it that and then badgered him until he laughed and said 'I guess you could call it that'
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Nov 19, 2019 17:16
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ugh that line of questioning was absolutely deplorable
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Nov 19, 2019 17:17
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The Lemondrop Dandy posted:Lower-level folks (which Vindman would be, compared to the ambassadors or whomever) are expected or required to take piles and piles of notes for important meetings. Pre-meeting prep identifying all of the participants/titles is key. You will address him by his full title of Lt. Col.!
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Nov 19, 2019 17:18
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Holy poo poo even Castor making fun of Guiliani, 'America's Mayor' lolol
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Nov 19, 2019 17:18
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"Did you talk to Rudy? Any phone calls or text messages?" "No, I only know him as New York's finest mayor." "America's mayor." "Right, America's mayor." Where's the rolleyes-vomiting-rolleyes gif when you need it
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Nov 19, 2019 17:19
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Ok so which GOP lunatic is going to run damage control during recess.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:19
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Angry_Ed posted:Ok so which GOP lunatic is going to run damage control during recess. McCarthy and Zeldin were last time.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:21
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Jim Jordan is gonna double down on the ukranian secret agent thing
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Nov 19, 2019 17:21
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Angry_Ed posted:Ok so which GOP lunatic is going to run damage control during recess. This is why I'm watching the BBC's stream.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:21
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lol i turned on CNN and the first to speak was jeffrey toobin: "There was a sound you could hear in the testimony today, which was republican talking points falling apart"
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Nov 19, 2019 17:21
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Random thought/question regarding the whistleblower. Does Schiff know who the person is? And is it possible that they've already testified, are currently testifying, or are scheduled to testify, but just their anonymity as being the actual whistleblower has been/will be kept? That is to say, is it possible we've already heard from them or will hear from them but the public isn't aware?
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Nov 19, 2019 17:21
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zonohedron posted:This is why I'm watching the BBC's stream. NPR coverage what whaaaat
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Nov 19, 2019 17:22
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Does anyone have a link to the "call me Lt Col" soundbite?
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Nov 19, 2019 17:22
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tek79 posted:Random thought/question regarding the whistleblower. Does Schiff know who the person is? And is it possible that they've already testified, are currently testifying, or are scheduled to testify, but just their anonymity as being the actual whistleblower has been/will be kept? That is to say, is it possible we've already heard from them or will hear from them but the public isn't aware? we basically know that the whistleblower is someone who wasn't on the call, but (per NYT/WaPo) was a ukraine-expert at the CIA. no one could possibly fit the bill that's testified so far
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Nov 19, 2019 17:23
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Hey Nunes maybe stop looking like you're taking photos of documents during the recess.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:23
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SalTheBard posted:Does anyone have a link to the "call me Lt Col" soundbite? https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1196819899160629250
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Nov 19, 2019 17:23
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tek79 posted:Random thought/question regarding the whistleblower. Does Schiff know who the person is? And is it possible that they've already testified, are currently testifying, or are scheduled to testify, but just their anonymity as being the actual whistleblower has been/will be kept? That is to say, is it possible we've already heard from them or will hear from them but the public isn't aware? To your first question: Schiff has said he doesn't know: any contact has been through the whistleblower's counsel. To your second: highly unlikely.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:23
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https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1196822017120579585
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Nov 19, 2019 17:24
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tek79 posted:Random thought/question regarding the whistleblower. Does Schiff know who the person is? And is it possible that they've already testified, are currently testifying, or are scheduled to testify, but just their anonymity as being the actual whistleblower has been/will be kept? That is to say, is it possible we've already heard from them or will hear from them but the public isn't aware? Allegedly he does not know who they are. Realistically I think everyone, including the republicans, have an idea, but just need someone else to say the name first.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:24
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Thanks all. That clears it up.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:25
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lmao no one who watched that testimony could possibly think that that guy is some insubordinate rash hothead
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Nov 19, 2019 17:26
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eke out posted:lmao no one who watched that testimony could possibly think that that guy is some insubordinate rash hothead Pretty sure Sean Davis didn't watch it 
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Nov 19, 2019 17:26
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1glitch0 posted:Yeah, I get it, but it's just so above my paygrade it's really impressive. I was on a conference call at work last week and I can name the people in the room with me, but I could not name all the people on the phone. It just points to the professionalism these people have. Most of the career people in the government and military take their jobs and their oaths seriously. These are people who could easily make more money in the private sector but choose to serve. The same goes for people in the intelligence community, for the most part the shady poo poo that goes on is the work of political actors outside the regular channels orchestrated and carried out by "cowboys" who read too many Clancy novels. I think that too many people don't recognize that this distinction exists. Trump and his cronies don't get this which is why they are in trouble here. Think about it, if Trump and his cronies hadn't been so insistent in making sure to clarify and get explicit confirmation from Zelenski they could have maintained plausible deniability. But instead he had to get verbal confirmation in front of witnesses in clear terms that the message had been delivered. If they had let Rudy and his shady sidekicks do all of the dirty work and keep the official communications clean their whole "we were just checking President Zelenski out before releasing the aid" narrative would have been plausible enough to run with. As it is it requires comical levels of wilful ignorance to maintain. Thank whatever forces exist in the universe that Trump is the stupidest fucker ever to hold elected office with an ego the size of a gas giant because it really takes this level of incompetence to get caught for this kind of thing.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:27
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Angry_Ed posted:Pretty sure Sean Davis didn't watch it he's probably been on a call with Whoever Funds The Federalist so he can be told what to write
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Nov 19, 2019 17:27
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tek79 posted:Random thought/question regarding the whistleblower. Does Schiff know who the person is? And is it possible that they've already testified, are currently testifying, or are scheduled to testify, but just their anonymity as being the actual whistleblower has been/will be kept? That is to say, is it possible we've already heard from them or will hear from them but the public isn't aware? He does not know who it is, but presumably knows who the sewers of the internet have been batting around as the whistleblower.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:27
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they're obsessive about trying to come up with totally legal ways to threaten the whistleblower and anyone who testifies against trump
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Nov 19, 2019 17:28
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during Daniel Goldman's (i think that's his name) questioning Jim Jordan looked grim
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Nov 19, 2019 17:28
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eke out posted:he's probably been on a call with Whoever Funds The Federalist so he can be told what to write Clearly. I can't imagine anyone (with a functioning brain) thinking Lt. Col Vindman was insubordiate considering he reported the fact that elements of Ukraine's government were trying to bribe him with a Defense Minister position.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:30
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