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Catsplosion posted:It's a fakeout, I think. In the sense that this show has pretty much always been about psychology more than anything else and contains a lot of symbolism related to surrounding ideas and principles. It's a symbol for our attachment to the past through the future. You can't have hope without fear. This whole thing was a good post. I like the interpretation of past/present/future. DaveKap posted:Welp, whether you wanted a DaveKap post or not, you're gonna get it. In classic form, I completely appreciate your incredibly detailed post and also enjoyably disagree with some parts. (Btw, do you mind saying what your occupation is? You're incredibly in the know for cinematography.) I feel like Elliot's abuse was impactful and jarring and the affect was similar. The words you described for it were, to me, the powerful part, not the weak part. The rest of my post is flow of consciousness and not directed at you in particular. See also my recent post about DID. DID typically occurs due to childhood drama at certain ages of development. I knew some hosed up poo poo happened to Elliot but oof. The show also previously hinted at Elliot having a much more favorable view of his dad than he deserved. There's a scene in an earlier season where his mom is all "why are you sad that your dad is gone?" Also notable is that Darlene was not in this episode at all. My dumbass Darlene theory aside, Elliot mentions hiding Darlene from her dad and that matches the feel of the episode. On a different note, I so much appreciate that the show is so referential and plays with different genres. The five act structure and theatrical feel was jarring but also really amazing. I like that I don't know what I'm going to get into each week. The Sean fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 18:18
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The Sean posted:Also notable is that Darlene was not in this episode at all. My dumbass Darlene theory aside, Elliot mentions hiding Darlene from her dad and that matches the feel of the episode. Technically right now Darlene is hiding Elliot from taxidermist and the dark army. I guess that's repaying him for protecting her from their father.
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Nov 19, 2019 19:18
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LuckySevens posted:Ok, good for you? I guess I should ask for permission before expanding on a point you've made? fullroundaction posted:I took a look over at reddit and it seems the popular sentiment now is “if you thought this show had anything to do with hacking, or intricate plot twists, or mysteries the audience was supposed to solve you’re basically a knuckle dragging invalid who should just watch the transformers and fast and furious movies because the show has never been about those things”. The Sean posted:In classic form, I completely appreciate your incredibly detailed post and also enjoyably disagree with some parts. (Btw, do you mind saying what your occupation is? You're incredibly in the know for cinematography.) I feel like Elliot's abuse was impactful and jarring and the affect was similar. The words you described for it were, to me, the powerful part, not the weak part. The rest of my post is flow of consciousness and not directed at you in particular. The Sean posted:See also my recent post about DID. DID typically occurs due to childhood drama at certain ages of development. I knew some hosed up poo poo happened to Elliot but oof. The show also previously hinted at Elliot having a much more favorable view of his dad than he deserved. There's a scene in an earlier season where his mom is all "why are you sad that your dad is gone?" Fantastic catch about Darlene being absent in a "hidden away" kind of manner. I do agree the five act structure was a cool idea in the end and, yes, I absolutely love that I have no idea wtf this show is going to do next. That's exactly why Legion stayed entertaining. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 21:15
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The Sean posted:I feel like Elliot's abuse was impactful and jarring and the affect was similar. The words you described for it were, to me, the powerful part, not the weak part. The rest of my post is flow of consciousness and not directed at you in particular. Agreed. This whole episode came together and worked for me because it was so creatively dissonant. Humour and horror come together in a way very similar to Twin Peaks, and we get a mixture of both Brechtian distance and intense psychological up-closeness through the mixing of theatre and cinema. Elliot, through the whole series, is psychologically split. He is both "me" and "not-me", and I think there is both joy and terror to that kind of existence. There is an alien-ness to it, but it is also familiar. It mixes together feelings of both love and hate and closeness and distance. It isn't unilateral and, to be honest,... quote:I would rather be child-murdered than child-molested and live a life with all the pain and complications it brings. I was most reminded, when watching this, of the first time I watched Mysterious Skin. That film in particular captures the extremes of emotional intensity around childhood sexual abuse. Like Mr Robot, it involves a borderline sci-fi conspiracy plot line which feels tangential until it comes together at the end in a devastating way. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an inspiration because there are a few parallels.
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Nov 19, 2019 21:37
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Y'all are right, it was disrespectful, I wasn't thinking about those who survive and live good lives. I was thinking about the other end of the spectrum and it's not my place to say anyway.
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Nov 19, 2019 23:19
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Khanstant posted:Y'all are right, it was disrespectful, I wasn't thinking about those who survive and live good lives. I was thinking about the other end of the spectrum and it's not my place to say anyway. Growth is good, goon friend. 
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Nov 20, 2019 00:11
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So we have a big reveal about elliots childhood in this episode, but unless I’m missing something we still don’t know anything about the 3rd personality that knew Vera was hanging around right?
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Nov 20, 2019 02:08
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DaveKap posted:Eh, I'm talking original score. If I was talking soundtrack, I'd just be complaining about how much I hate Christmas music. Video is region blocked here, but I'm gonna be disappointed if I don't get one more epic rendition of the main Mr Robot action theme song with the weird slimy computer chip tunes sounds. Please tell me there is a Mr Robot font available online somewhere. Seeing it represented with the Act 1, 2 stuff reminded me how amazing it looks.
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Nov 20, 2019 02:22
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I'm still on the side of thinking his 3rd personality is the loving audience. Who else are they talking to?
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Nov 20, 2019 02:49
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GreenNight posted:I'm still on the side of thinking his 3rd personality is the loving audience. Who else are they talking to? This was my first thought and also the one that makes the most sense to me. My prediction is there will be a Slater scene where he dresses down the audience via 4th wall breaking exactly like Frank in House of Cards where this all gets laid out. Since Esmail said it's been there all along this is the only thing it can be that stands up to scrutiny (probably?), depending on how far the show is willing to go into retcon territory. I'm giving up TV if this topic is never addressed again in the show. e: Except this theory doesn't make sense because Darlene never told us (the audience). So .... maybe not? Unless it was in the ARG somewhere
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Nov 20, 2019 05:09
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What if Darlene talks to the audience in the next episode instead of mr robot?
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Nov 20, 2019 05:18
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Didn't this episode kind of semi-reveal the third person. Wouldn't it just be Edward Alderson? Considering Esmail's insistence that it's been baked into the show the entire time, I can't imagine it being anything else.
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Nov 20, 2019 05:20
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The 3rd person is Batty, the talking bat, the only one that protected elliot.
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Nov 20, 2019 05:28
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Looten Plunder posted:Video is region blocked here, but I'm gonna be disappointed if I don't get one more epic rendition of the main Mr Robot action theme song with the weird slimy computer chip tunes sounds.
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Nov 20, 2019 06:10
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apatheticman posted:The 3rd person is Batty, the talking bat, the only one that protected elliot. There's probably an extremely tenuous connection to be made there between Elliot fending off his father with the bat before "taming" him into the kinder gentler Mr Robot, and Vera's story about the bullied kid using the bat to tame his bully
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Nov 20, 2019 06:32
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I thought the third personality was “the real” Elliot. Not the one harmed and hampered down by his repressions (Elliot), and not the one who’s all confident and protects him (Mr Robot). There’s a personality in there that’s self actualized, has accepted their past, and is an amalgamation of traits of both of the ones we see now, and can function without multiple personalities to do it. Elliot Prime. It’s like what his mom and the pre-window kid in the office were saying, they’re waiting for him. They’re waiting for Elliot to heal. They both knew the truth.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:37
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"The third Elliot is the Elliots we made along the way" theory does click into place a lot easier than some of the others I've read. That and "we are the third" are the only two I can grapple with without having to radically re-imagine existing events.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:53
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I'm not convinced there is a third, Mr Robot could've been lying about the lost time. Not going to die on any hills trying to predict where this show goes though.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:57
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The third personality is Monsieur Robot, played by Jean Reno.
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Nov 20, 2019 08:06
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Gonz posted:The third personality is Monsieur Robot, played by Jean Reno. I wouldn't even be mad, that'd be amazing. Monsieur Robot makes me think of the silver painted robot-man from Eurotrip.
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Nov 20, 2019 08:08
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THE INTERNET is the 3rd
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Nov 20, 2019 08:09
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It's Mr Plow
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Nov 20, 2019 08:14
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DaveKap posted:I knew someone was going to make this argument because it's literally the go-to argument for these forums. Latest episode of Watchmen was almost perfect but had some poorly done flashbacks that make the viewer feel like the show doesn't trust them to understand what's going on. The argument? "It's so you can feel the PTSD the character has." I really don't like this argument at all. I won't call you wrong but I will call this argument not entertaining for something that is supposed to be entertainment. No offense, but when I read your posts in Comic Book Guy's voice, they are a thousand times more entertaining. e: it may seem like I'm trying to be a jerkass here, but I'm really not. It's just good posts made funnier. UltraShame fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 08:36
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UltraShame posted:No offense, but when I read your posts in Comic Book Guy's voice, they are a thousand times more entertaining.
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Nov 20, 2019 11:01
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Laterite posted:It's Mr Plow That’s his name That name again, Laterite posted:It's Mr Plow
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Nov 20, 2019 13:54
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counterfeitsaint posted:This season was delayed over a year because they insisted on filming it in New York in the winter. Google tells me that filming was from late Feb through to June. The scenes for 4x05 (the city chase) were filmed in April as seen here and confirmed by Monica Lewinsky and Sam Esmail here
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Nov 20, 2019 14:02
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Thank god for climate change and erratic out-of-season weather!
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Nov 20, 2019 14:49
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Looten Plunder posted:Google tells me that filming was from late Feb through to June. The scenes for 4x05 (the city chase) were filmed in April as seen here and confirmed by Monica Lewinsky and Sam Esmail here Of all the 90s references in this show, this one definitely surprised me.
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Nov 20, 2019 14:52
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A podcast I listen to brings up the "off by one" (theory?) from time to time and it's something I've been very interested in but I think at this point the show probably isn't going to address it and that's going to drive me crazy.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:29
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Looten Plunder posted:Google tells me that filming was from late Feb through to June. The scenes for 4x05 (the city chase) were filmed in April as seen here and confirmed by Monica Lewinsky and Sam Esmail here Rami Malek getting angry at that guy trying to stop the chase is the third personality edit: nevermind, theory busted, that's a stunt double HolyKrap fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 15:45
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Na, I'm firmly on the boat now that the 3rd personality is a merging of Mr Robot and Elliot.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:46
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Looten Plunder posted:Google tells me that filming was from late Feb through to June. The scenes for 4x05 (the city chase) were filmed in April as seen here and confirmed by Monica Lewinsky and Sam Esmail here TV IV > Mr. Robot - Season 4 - confirmed by Monica Lewinsky
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Nov 20, 2019 15:58
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What if the 3rd personality isn't Elliot's, but rather Mr. Robot's? We have to go deeper into Elliot's mind to learn that Mr. Robot also has a split personality, and THAT personality comes from the future because Elliot used Whiterose's time machine in an attempt to undo/reset his hosed up life but rather than physically going back in time, his mind went back in time only to be stuck in the deep recesses of his mind.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:10
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I'm 50/50 on it being either Elliot Prime or The Audience. I was reading an article and it mentioned a scene where Elliot was talking about his father being dead or dying and seemed glad or okay with it, which seems to imply that there is or was an Elliot Prime at some point, who was fully aware of the things that happened, who has maybe disappeared as the child-like Elliot and Mr.Robot personalities took over? I can't remember that scene though, I gotta rewatch this show, so much poo poo happened.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:52
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I’m thinking Elliot and Mr Robot have been talking to Elliot Prime the entire time and as the audience, we’re hearing that conversation.
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Nov 20, 2019 19:10
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fullroundaction posted:I took a look over at reddit and it seems the popular sentiment now is “if you thought this show had anything to do with hacking, or intricate plot twists, or mysteries the audience was supposed to solve you’re basically a knuckle dragging invalid who should just watch the transformers and fast and furious movies because the show has never been about those things”. There are several screen writer creator types on twitter who hate this show, calling it CSI for people who think they are smart about tech and prestige TV. Personally, I always thought that was harsh, but this season the quality is very much “we think we are far cleverer than we actually are.” While I’m still enjoying it. It’s strong TV, but it’s not as good as most people on reddit are claiming it is. It’s very similar to the last few seasons of Sherlock, but Moffat’s highs as a writer is stronger than Sam’s. (His lows may be worse, but whatever).
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Nov 20, 2019 19:36
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As a show that explores so heavily mental anguish, the difficulty of coping with past trauma, and now this massive reveal that’s been in the works since literally the opening scene of the series, there’s just no way the third personality isn’t Elliot Prime. Elliot Prime has been there since the beginning, just heavily repressed/split into multiple protectionist personalities due to trauma and as a desperate act of survival. The final episodes will be about Elliot healing, accepting his past, self actualizing, shucking the need for protectionist imperfect personalities and becoming stronger from it. I mean, if one thing is clear it’s that Elliot + Mr Robot merging, and Elliot finally escaping his need for multiple personalities would make a very powerful and capable protagonist. The point will be made at the very end (after Elliot prime defeats white rose) that it would’ve never been possible if he hadn’t gone through this personal growth and transformation. Him and Darlene’s relationship will definitely prosper from it. And he will be able to help her heal as well. They’ll both finally see the true intricacies of their mother and father’s dynamic. It will be a great ending. It’s like that poster above said with their fantastic “three types of people, past present and future.” Elliot personality is him living in the past, Mr Robot is him living in the future (ultra strong capable dude who defeats all anguish), Elliot prime will finally be him living in the present.
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Nov 20, 2019 19:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFUjiHBfIiw
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Nov 20, 2019 20:54
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I just went and re-read the quote Esmail gave after the third personality reveal hit ...quote:When asked how long this particular plot point has been in the pipeline, the creator simply said: ‘The beginning [of the show]. ‘This is the beginning of that big final reveal of the whole series. Honestly, it’s one where I haven’t quite… you know, I go on the subreddit, I read theories, I listen to podcasts. This is one that hasn’t been predicted yet.’ Now that we know the molestation story it makes a lot more sense that Elliot (closed-off hackerman, as WE know him) is a second personality to his original-self, or Elliot-prime I guess. I was just hoping for some mind-blowing reveal that was in front of our faces the entire time but SOMEHOW the entire internet missed it. Maybe on a rewatch it would seem like it wasn't completely out of nowhere but I don't plan on doing that. LionArcher posted:It’s very similar to the last few seasons of Sherlock This is a very good comparison, yeah
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Nov 20, 2019 22:07
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My memory sucks. Who sent Elliot the video that revealed to him that he was pushing himself over the side of the boardwalk in Season 1?
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Nov 20, 2019 23:28
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