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Comstar posted:Wasn't Nixon in a stronger position before it tipped over? yes and no nixon had won in an actual landslide. but back in nixon's day, the parties had not really finished ideological sorting: there were plenty of elected republicans who had more in common ideologically with elected democrats and vice versa. so while nixon was much more popular nation-wide than trump is, he had far less control over the party base and people in congress. nixon's resignation and the southern strategy are big factors in the parties eventually sorting out into nationwide ideological parties which wasn't really fully complete until the obama years, when the last vestiges of the "southern democrats" got swept out
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Nov 20, 2019 18:34
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OAquinas posted:Is this about the cyanide pills or knifing trump? They're arguing that or how to defend this poo poo right now, probably while ducking Trump and/or Guiliani phone calls (and maybe conf calling in Hannity)
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Nov 20, 2019 18:35
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lol if Trump gets sunk by a medium-big-time real estate guy
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Nov 20, 2019 18:35
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So I missed pretty much everything to this point, is Sondland flipping and throwing Rudy under the bus? And the Republicans have actually fled the room in a panic?
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Nov 20, 2019 18:35
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Pompeo's timing on that announcement is vicious if it's true this was already in the works
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Nov 20, 2019 18:35
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PlasticAutomaton posted:So I missed pretty much everything to this point, is Sondland flipping and throwing Rudy under the bus? And the Republicans have actually fled the room in a panic? yes and yes also the republicans in the audience slunk away too, not just the members https://twitter.com/Milbank/status/1197205168275775489
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Nov 20, 2019 18:35
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Comstar posted:Wasn't Nixon in a stronger position before it tipped over? Fox News didn't exist then. In fact, Roger Ailes's explicit reason for starting the channel was to prevent another R president from going down like that
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Nov 20, 2019 18:36
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Fox would need to find a new kind of Trump to pitch against Trump in order to get the chuds to turn. Offer up a better version of a Trump against a lovely Trump would be easy. Right now it’s easy for them to label Fox as a fake news MSM because right now there’s no other Mega Chud to cheer for.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:36
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evilweasel posted:yes and yes Oh that's not a good look. Everyone's out coming up with talking points
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Nov 20, 2019 18:36
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so in this investigation, is “quid pro quo” understood in this case as 1. Trump withholding aid until Zelensky announces his investigation into Burisma 2. Trump refusing to meet with Zelensky until he announces an investigation into Burisma Is it both of these things? Is 2 considered an actual crime in the letter of the law or is it one of those things that’s obviously shady as gently caress but we can’t really do anything about it?
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Nov 20, 2019 18:36
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https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1197203450284646401?s=20
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Nov 20, 2019 18:37
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Dave Grool posted:lol if Trump gets sunk by a medium-big-time real estate guy I’m almost waiting for the twist that 20 years ago Trump screwed him over somehow so he just bid his time to hurt him the most.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:38
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reminder that Pence's wife was furious at him for the entirety of the campaign and election for associating with trump. She's like 100x smarter than her husband
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Nov 20, 2019 18:39
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Andronian posted:so in this investigation, is “quid pro quo” understood in this case as IIRC it was also made clear that Burisma means Biden and the investigation didn't need to happen, only to be announced
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Nov 20, 2019 18:39
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Andronian posted:so in this investigation, is “quid pro quo” understood in this case as Its both, though of course the aid was withheld illegally and Congress should have been notified of its withholding and ya know, its aid so its the bigger deal.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:40
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I'm so sad that Ailes didn't live long enough to see his tool of preventing another Nixon betray him.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:40
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are there any votes coming up on the House floor so they can shut down Nunes for a bit?
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Nov 20, 2019 18:40
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Have any of the Republicans who left returned yet, or are they going to try out a new strategy of boycotting the hearings?
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Nov 20, 2019 18:40
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Andronian posted:so in this investigation, is “quid pro quo” understood in this case as Yes, and yes the second is a crime. The Democratic lawyer dude did a great job of getting Sondland to agree that the meeting was an "official act".
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Nov 20, 2019 18:41
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NY Times TVIV getting weird nytimes posted:Mark MazzettiWashington Correspondent
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Nov 20, 2019 18:41
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SECRET Testimony?!!
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Nov 20, 2019 18:42
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What just happened with Sondland saying trump told him, “I want nothing no quid pro quo.” I must’ve missed something because he earlier testified there was absolutely quid pro quo. Now he’s saying trump said no? Did he just flippity flop?
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Nov 20, 2019 18:42
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Nunes is covered in sweat holy poo poo.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:42
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"It's not fair that we don't tell the witnesses exactly what we know and don't know before they answer" 
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Nov 20, 2019 18:42
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Blind Rasputin posted:What just happened with Sondland saying trump told him, “I want nothing no quid pro quo.” I must’ve missed something because he earlier testified there was absolutely quid pro quo. Now he’s saying trump said no? Did he just flippity flop? He's just saying that even though Trump might have said that it was in fact quid pro quo. basically just saying Trump doesn't know what the gently caress qpq is.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:42
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Andronian posted:so in this investigation, is “quid pro quo” understood in this case as Shifty Pony posted:Yes, and yes the second is a crime. The Democratic lawyer dude did a great job of getting Sondland to agree that the meeting was an "official act". I agree with SP but would clarify: Sondland has been very clear it's "Burisma and CrowdStrike/the 2016 Election" it's important because they can come up with some kind of halfassed defense of Burisma, but the whole thing was also contingent upon their insane, russian-propaganda based conspiracy theory that CrowdStrike has the DNC servers in Ukraine and they kept them their to help Hillary win in the 2016 election
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Up late fantasizing about Dick
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Nunes implying Democrats jerk off to these hearings is a fun take.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Blind Rasputin posted:What just happened with Sondland saying trump told him, “I want nothing no quid pro quo.” I must’ve missed something because he earlier testified there was absolutely quid pro quo. Now he’s saying trump said no? Did he just flippity flop? Trump literally said "I want no quid pro quo" and then asked him to do a quid pro quo in different phrasing.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Is Nunes explaining to us why that testimony wasn't released? Because they explicitly don't want you to get your story straight.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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oxsnard posted:reminder that Pence's wife was furious at him for the entirety of the campaign and election for associating with trump. She's like 100x smarter than her husband Actually she was dumber than he was because Trump won...
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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oh hell yes nunes is gonna give us some FACTS
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Blind Rasputin posted:What just happened with Sondland saying trump told him, “I want nothing no quid pro quo.” I must’ve missed something because he earlier testified there was absolutely quid pro quo. Now he’s saying trump said no? Did he just flippity flop? I regret to inform you that the President has difficulty with words, their meanings, telling the truth, and bowel control.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Nunes going all in on WHISTLEBLOWER nonsense.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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Blind Rasputin posted:What just happened with Sondland saying trump told him, “I want nothing no quid pro quo.” I must’ve missed something because he earlier testified there was absolutely quid pro quo. Now he’s saying trump said no? Did he just flippity flop? In one specific phone call directly with Trump its a direct quote. His whole testimony is how EVERYONE working for Trump told him it was a quid pro quo. Edit: He is trying to thread some imaginary needle that it was a quid pro quo on the meeting but not explicitly on aid dollars though. Guess he somehow think that makes it better i guess? Retro42 fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 18:43
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PlasticAutomaton posted:So I missed pretty much everything to this point, is Sondland flipping and throwing Rudy under the bus? And the Republicans have actually fled the room in a panic? He lined up Rudy, Pompao, Trump, Morrison, Mulvany, Hill and more in front of that bus. He also explicitly stated that a "quid prop quo" occurred.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:44
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Kro-Bar posted:Trump literally said "I want no quid pro quo" and then asked him to do a quid pro quo in different phrasing. Trump is a dumb mob boss "oh no, I don't want you to do anything illegal. I'm just saying if this were to happen in this specific way, it would be good for you and if it didn't, it would be bad for you."
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Nov 20, 2019 18:45
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Retro42 posted:In one specific phone call directly with Trump its a direct quote. Trump is also a mob boss-lite where everything is implied and he never speaks directly about anything so he can have some kind of plausible deniability that only works in movies or on TV.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:45
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Blind Rasputin posted:What just happened with Sondland saying trump told him, “I want nothing no quid pro quo.” I must’ve missed something because he earlier testified there was absolutely quid pro quo. Now he’s saying trump said no? Did he just flippity flop? Trump explicitly told Sondland "I want no quid pro quo", in a way that a mob-boss would say "I don't want you to 'commit extortion'! Just let them know something bad might happen if they don't do this thing for us." But Sondland and Mulvaney have also admitted that it's obvious, that at least the meeting, was definitely a quid pro quo, in effect. Republicans are trying to hang their hat on a criminal claiming what they did was not a crime.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:45
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oxsnard posted:reminder that Pence's wife was furious at him for the entirety of the campaign and election for associating with trump. She's like 100x smarter than her husband I'm afraid 100 times zero is still zero
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Nov 20, 2019 18:46
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