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BENGHAZI 2 posted:last we knew he was making custom bootleg blurays for things that arent available in the states Oh my god I forgot about that. It's beautiful. For a situation like that, yeah, you can probably figure out your marginal productivity. Since there's only one employee, any profits are directly due to that one employee. It's way more complicated as soon as you have more employees, because the final product usually can't be subdivided. If you've got ten employees doing work to make a product, you generally can't just get rid of one of them and have the product still work. So the marginal utility of every employee is the full value of all sales of the product, because without each one of them the product wouldn't be possible. "But the other employees could just take over that work, it'll just go more slowly!" Yes, but the work was divided up for a reason. Maybe now you can't make the product fast enough for the customer, and they're going to drop you and find someone else to do it (yes, that absolutely happens. I've seen a couple manufacturers screw up badly enough to lose contracts.) Maybe the work is so complicated that you can't reasonably expect the other employees to take it over. And that's still a simple scenario. What's the marginal utility of the janitor? How do you quantify that? Nobody knows, but if you don't have one you're probably not going to get any work done at a big company. Marginal labor utility is a great theory, but it's practically nearly useless.
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Nov 20, 2019 03:58
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polymathy posted:No, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. You literally said "Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews". There's only one way to understand that, Jrod.
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Nov 20, 2019 03:59
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If only other countries had helped out in the forced removal of all Jews.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:00
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Hmm what would someone who thinks that the holocaust was a bad thing saypolymathy posted:I see your twisting yourself into a pretzel to virtue signal that you know how bad Hitler was and how bad the Genocide was. Yup that looks like something that someone who thinks that the holocaust was a bad thing would say E: polymathy posted:no libertarian has ever been pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi except in your fevered imagination I'll bet money that's because, to you, anyone who identifies as libertarian is just playing around when they say stuff like "vocally opposing Hitler is just performative wokeness" E2: If we keep pushing we'll get him railing against political correctness and I'll bet we get a #metoo comment as well Somfin fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 04:01
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Goon Danton posted:These are some good points honestly! If only Marx had thought of them and made them against Ricardo and accounted for them in his version of the LTV that appeared in Capital, then we wouldn't be in this mess! Hypothetically. I mean, it's not like Karl Marx, the man who spent literally decades analyzing markets and labour-conditions and the way in which the monied classes made absurdly large profits could ever have accounted for the 'critique' that someone like JRode would raise and exhaustively answered them. Like, I had a whole thing started about Direct, Indirect and Embodied Labour and how that interacts with the Socially Necessary Labour that is expressed in the markets to deal with his "if you hire people for busywork" nonsense, but in the end I just thought gently caress it, because why waste my time.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:03
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ron paul thawing out his legion of cryogenically frozen d&d posters from 2008 for one more run.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:05
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polymathy posted:Remember when I was talking to you about what you get out of labeling people "racist"? What you're doing here is called performative wokeness, except you're railing against a fantasy since no libertarian has ever been pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi except in your fevered imagination. performative wokeness would be better than your current standard of performative brokeness anyway there is inherent value in labeling people as racist. i can only assume you do not like this label since so it applies to so many of your intellectual heroes
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Nov 20, 2019 04:08
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luxury handset posted:performative wokeness would be better than your current standard of performative brokeness It's because "racist" means "bad person" to him, and "bad person" is a mark that can never be removed and also you can't listen to a bad person on anything ever Whereas you can actually listen to racist people on a bunch of issues, you just have to filter what they say through "is this something that is being impacted by their belief that white people are / should be superior" with anything that comes out the far end of that with a "probably" being treated as less reliable
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Nov 20, 2019 04:11
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polymathy posted:We're not talking about the war, we're talking about the 1930s when FDR REFUSED asylum for the Jews and sent them back to their death. An astonishingly bad liar posted:Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany. He didn't have to kill them, he just wanted them gone. This is what I was calling you out on saying. This thing, this part, right here. This is false. It is in fact, untrue. And it is a thing you said, and it is the thing I reacted to as evidenced by it being the thing I quoted in my post. I don't give a rats rear end about the rest of your performative bitch whining, because the specific point I was addressing was either one of two things: 1. You being a loving galaxy brain moron and accidentally saying 'he just wanted them gone.' 2. You being a liar and stating something you know to be historically untrue. One of these two things are true. Yet you've decided on option 3: "No, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Although I probably made my point inartfully." No, your point wasn't inartful, it was loving wrong. It was so loving wrong that it minimizes the holocaust by stating that if we just accepted all the european jews, then it would have minimized the holocaust, as if Hitler wouldn't have followed that up by murdering 100 million slavs had he not been stopped. I'm not misunderstanding poo poo, you either lied or were wrong, and rather than admit that you end up being a weiny infected cockvein about how I'm virtue signaling by pointing out the enormous historic inaccuracy of your dumbshit.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:21
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jrod how do you feel about giving trans kids hormone blockers to delay puberty
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Nov 20, 2019 04:22
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quote:no libertarian has ever been pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi except in your fevered imagination Reason magazine one of the quintessential libertarian magazines for the 20th century, published a 'historical revisionism' issue full of holocaust denial. The libertarian periodical rampart during the 60's was big on holocaust denial. There are also a ton of self-identified libertarians who deny the holocaust or who have gone full fascist, but of course, No True Libertarian.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:32
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Caros posted:Reason magazine one of the quintessential libertarian magazines for the 20th century, published a 'historical revisionism' issue full of holocaust denial. The libertarian periodical rampart during the 60's was big on holocaust denial. There are also a ton of self-identified libertarians who deny the holocaust or who have gone full fascist, but of course, No True Libertarian. Wasn't this the stuff they tried to memoryhole? fakeedit: Ohmygod, look who's back! quote:Perhaps the most shocking article in Reason’s “special issue” was penned by Gary North, who was also Ron Paul’s congressional aide that same year, and has been one of the most influential figures in the Christian radical-right since the 1970s. North’s article in Reason mocked the Holocaust as “the Establishment’s favorite horror story” and questioned “the supposed execution of 6 million Jews by Hitler.” Hahahahahahahaha!
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Nov 20, 2019 04:36
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Caros posted:No True Libertarian. This, basically. "No libertarian is fascist." "But what about all of these fascist libertarians?" "Ah, well they just call themselves libertarians." "But you cited them as actual libertarian thinkers." "Ah, well they just seem fascist." "But here they are saying some fascist stuff explicitly." "Ah, well you're just saying it's fascist." "No, like, it definitely is." "Ah, well they didn't write it, they just hire fascists to write for them under their names."
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Nov 20, 2019 04:37
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TLM3101 posted:Wasn't this the stuff they tried to memoryhole? This is my shocked face. A couple of guys from that issue also did a 'Ron Paul home schooling' thing which I assume is loving horrifying. No libertarians are pro-hitler or holocaust deniers. Except my campaign aids. Which is entirely unrelated.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:43
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Why, it's beginning to look like the only libertarians in the world are Ron Paul and JRod.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:44
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Ratoslov posted:Why, it's beginning to look like the only libertarians in the world are Ron Paul and JRod. The Rule of Two has guided the galaxy for generations
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Nov 20, 2019 04:46
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polymathy posted:Holocaust Revisionism I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I really was. gently caress you. Just gently caress you.
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Nov 20, 2019 04:50
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Jrod, it is important that you realize something; No one here is "virtue signaling" or being "performatively woke". Maybe centrist liberals virtue signal in the way that right-wing people mean, but most leftists do not do this and insisting that they do makes you look like an idiot. Virtue Signaling is projection on the part of the Right because that is how they approach politics; their positions are not sincerely held, merely a refuge of convenience.
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Nov 20, 2019 05:52
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Rhjamiz posted:Jrod, it is important that you realize something; I mean, flipping it around a bit, I absolutely am trying to clearly espouse the virtues that I want to see in society; equality, the dignity of human life, fair and more equitable distribution of wealth, anti-racism, anti-bigotry, etc. But yeah, those beliefs are genuine and sincerely held, so... I don't know. It's just that I'm always somewhat bemused by the whole notion of virtue signaling being a bad thing, before remembering that to the people using it in a sneering and condescending manner it's a way of to allege insincerity without actually taking the risk of coming out and making the accusation directly.
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Nov 20, 2019 06:10
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Rhjamiz posted:Jrod, it is important that you realize something; jrod is telling on himself when he thinks the main reason to call out racists is for rhetorical reasons, and not due to sincere disgust for racism
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Nov 20, 2019 06:14
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TLM3101 posted:It's just that I'm always somewhat bemused by the whole notion of virtue signaling being a bad thing, before remembering that to the people using it in a sneering and condescending manner it's a way of to allege insincerity without actually taking the risk of coming out and making the accusation directly. Yeah, it's just weaksauce "but you don't actually believe it" from someone who steadfastly refuses to tell us anything that he actually believes Jrod, everything that you have posted in this thread is desperate libertarian virtue signalling and you don't actually believe in any of it.
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Nov 20, 2019 06:23
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polymathy posted:Child porn should be illegal. quote:The discussion is interesting from a certain perspective because there does seem to be some inconsistencies in the law. I don't remember the poster's name but there was a person a few pages back who was bringing up some of these questions, but he got temporarily suspended for being "weird" seemingly slightly defending it being legal. And you don't get arrested if you have a picture of a war atrocity with naked kids in it. There is for example a very famous picture of naked vietnamese children running away from a napalm bombing. The photographer of that picture remains unprocecuted.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:27
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Alhazred posted:We don't make CP illegal because it's grosser. We make it illegal because having footage of abuse in circulation is something that continues to hurt the victims, we make it illegal because taking sexualised videos or photos of minors is in itself a form of abuse, we make it illegal because by having such material in circulation we risk that the demand of it goes up. There's no inconsistency, we banned it for very clear reasons. It's this. As an aisde: If you'll recall, that same picture of Phan Thi Kim Phuc ( usually known as "Napalm Girl" ) was part of a bit of a brouhaha in 2016, when it was posted to Facebook by a Norwegian journalist and pretty much immediately taken down citing regulations against posting material depicting child nudity... which was immediately followed by a host of politicians and journalists reposting the image over and over and making the point that no, this is not the same thing at all, because her being nude is absolutely irrelevant to the horror of that image. In the end, Nick Ut - the photographer - remains unprosecuted, and Facebook no longer censors that picture.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:46
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Libertarianishly: if a ruler wants to forcibly remove ethnic groups to racially cleanse his country, it's everyone else's duty to help out. As long as the ethnic cleansing is carried out peacefully and no one resists it's in accordance with the NAP, and if there is violence it's definitely everyone else's fault
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Nov 20, 2019 09:36
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polymathy posted:
Wait wait wait, but you just told me that value of any commodity (like labor) is subjective and determined by supply and demand in the marketplace. So why would increasing productivity increase wages. It should have the opposite effect, if the factory can operate the same as before with less labor then demand for labor has decreased while the supply remains constant so wages ought to decrease, no?
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Nov 20, 2019 09:41
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VitalSigns posted:Libertarianishly: if a ruler wants to forcibly remove ethnic groups to racially cleanse his country, it's everyone else's duty to help out. Really it's every other country's fault for not taking in the refugees. And hey when you've gotta get rid of people and no-one will take them, there's only really one option:
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Nov 20, 2019 09:42
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So, polymathy: Do you think wealthy people have more power than the poor? Or is the only kind of power in society government? Is employment a 100% free, consensual relationship that has no coercive elements in it in a society where all necessities are commodified? Might it be conceivable that the poor benefit less from a strict, unlimited private property regime with no regulation than the wealthy? Panzeh fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 11:20
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polymathy posted:"The labor theory of value (LTV) is a heterodox theory of value that argues that the economic value of a good or service is determined by the total amount of "socially necessary labor" required to produce it. This is going to get lost in the shuffle over your Holocaust revisionism, but that "nitpick" you're referencing is literally the argument you've been saying disproves LTV, and the response to it. Seems like that would be important! Like if we were making fun of the non-aggression principle and said that it bans self-defense, it wouldn't be a nitpick for you to point out that the word "aggression" is doing some heavy lifting and its meaning is very important, no?
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Nov 20, 2019 11:45
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I would also appreciate responses to my question about whether potable water and basic foodstuffs are best (And yes, you are welcome to use whichever definition of "best" you'd like) distributed by the free market or whether there are some goods for which the general model of supply/demand does not work. You also asserted that competition would spring up IF the cost to entry is negligible. Yet, as you are fond of claiming, it is not (because this justifies the profit the capitalist pockets). How do you reconcile these two thoughts?
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Nov 20, 2019 11:54
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BENGHAZI 2 you should refrain from calling jrod a oval office. We should try to avoid gendered invectives. Also he's the last person you should be implying to be capable of warmth and depth. Anticheese fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 13:01
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Hi. Before I get into this, I want to just state that I'm a German citizen. I specifically want to use that to point out that not only is the poo poo you're saying dumb, ignorant, poorly researched, ignores all historical facts, but if I said them I would go to prison. To you that's probably just an example of an over-reach of the State, but to people who aren't hosed in the head, that should be a sign of how loving much of a moron you are. The poo poo you're saying is so vile and hateful that in a first world country it comes with a prison sentence. From a country with mandatory Holocaust studies in school. I want you to really let that sink you. You uninformed piece of poo poo. You terrible approximation of a human being. polymathy posted:No, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Although I probably made my point inartfully. No. No no no no no no no. No one is "twisting themselves into a pretzel" to disagree with Hitler. We all just disagree with Hitler. It's very easy to do. (Also cool job using right-wing talking points stolen from the left to make your lovely "point" ; "virtue signaling" was originally a criticism of faux-leftists whose contribution was shopping at Whole Foods, but now you are using it in its stupid modern meaning designed to point out that clearly no one could be against racism just cause it's bad and we must only be doing it to score culture points or something. Which just shows that you can't imagine why someone would just be anti-racist because they think racial-equality is a good idea and we must have an alternative motive.) You ambulatory mound of human garbage. quote:We're not talking about the war, we're talking about the 1930s when FDR REFUSED asylum for the Jews and sent them back to their death. We're literally talking about Britain's entry into the war that happened before the start of The Shoah. Don't try and change the narrative you. Pointing out the anti-Semitism present in other countries is at best irrelevant, and more likely an attempt to excuse Nazi behavior. Your points are wrong, not supported by fact and clearly show your own ideological bias because what loving Nazi axe are you grinding that would lead you to want to make this point? You lying buffoon. quote:Hitler's views about the Jews were clear very early on. Why didn't we, or any other major country for that matter, allow them asylum and save haven? You literally just denied this. Unless you want to play some coy semantic games about how most of his writing was in German and (arguably, I guess) less read in other countries. But you're clearly contradicting yourself. So you're either ignorant or a liar. I'm gonna go with both, but no matter what you argue in bad faith and don't even do a good job at it, you absolute imbecile. quote:Those who made the difficult decision to leave Germany still had to find a country willing to admit them and their family. The search for safe haven was very difficult. The Evian Conference of 1938 showed this when almost every nation in attendance declined to change its immigration policies. Even when a new country could be found, a great deal of time, paperwork, support, and sometimes money was needed to get there. In many cases, these obstacles could not be overcome. Are you totally ignorant of any of the Nazi anti-emigration laws, or do you just not give a poo poo? Finding a country to take in emigrating Jews was relatively easy compared to the fact that they took all your money and property away and refused to give you any of the paperwork necessary to obtain a foreign visa. One of of the cited reasons for not taking in Jewish refugees (yes, along with rampant anti-Semitism) was that they'd be coming in super poor. You god drat revisionist monster. quote:These activity sheets illustrate some of the difficulties Jews faced in trying to leave Germany; they make clear that this seemingly simple question is actually very complicated. Cool? Did you read this? It undermines your "point". You loving illiterate. quote:Also, the limited point I was making didn't concern the slavs in Poland and Russia. I was merely saying that we could have saved many Jews had our leaders been inclined to offer asylum to them. Yes, and this shows how stupid and ignorant your point is. Why yes, if the Allies had literal psychic powers, they might have somehow been able to predict the future and save more of the Jews. Great? If we assume omniscience on the part of people, many things would be different. Where are you going with this? What does this show? And uh, good job just not giving a poo poo about any of the Jews in conquered German regions. Do they not count? It'd be one thing if you were just a monster, but you're such an ignorant and disingenuous monster on top of it. quote:Remember when I was talking to you about what you get out of labeling people "racist"? What you're doing here is called performative wokeness, except you're railing against a fantasy since no libertarian has ever been pro-Hitler or pro-Nazi except in your fevered imagination. A stupid argument, that even if it weren't built on sand would be horrific and damning in its own right. You're dumber than a box of wet hair, don't know how to argue and apparently are pretty down to clown with anti-Semitism. Real good look there, rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:51
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You truly are human garbage, jrod, and it is but by the grace of our wonderful community and their desire to argue with you that you are allowed to remain here.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:59
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Lightning Knight posted:You truly are human garbage, jrod, and it is but by the grace of our wonderful community and their desire to argue with you that you are allowed to remain here. I wonder if this was pre2012ish we'd see other libertarians claim JRod is a false flag. You are coming off so badly JRod even when you might have a point. I guess this is intrinsic to thinking you are a Randian titan
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Nov 20, 2019 19:25
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Xiahou Dun posted:Hi. Before I get into this, I want to just state that I'm a German citizen. I specifically want to use that to point out that not only is the poo poo you're saying dumb, ignorant, poorly researched, ignores all historical facts, but if I said them I would go to prison. To you that's probably just an example of an over-reach of the State, but to people who aren't hosed in the head, that should be a sign of how loving much of a moron you are. The poo poo you're saying is so vile and hateful that in a first world country it comes with a prison sentence. From a country with mandatory Holocaust studies in school. Oh no! JRode's one weakness! Someone who knows anything about anything! I know it's generally frowned upon to quote long posts in full like this, but I am humbly asking for an exception to be made in this case, because it deserves to be quoted and can only be quoted in full,, as each part is an integral, finely crafted component of the whole. I throw myself on the mercy of the mods.
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Nov 20, 2019 19:37
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Edit : ^^^ Uh, thanks, I guess? Lightning Knight posted:You truly are human garbage, jrod, and it is but by the grace of our wonderful community and their desire to argue with you that you are allowed to remain here. O thank god. I was getting pretty hot under the collar there and ramping it back as best I could ; I was worried I'd eat a probe or something. Sorry, German, Holocaust stuff, you can imagine it gets me pretty feisty but also self-conscious.
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Nov 20, 2019 19:38
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Xiahou Dun posted:Edit : ^^^ Uh, thanks, I guess? Jrod is permabanned. He’s permabanned for a reason. I have allowed him to post here because of community demand and because I think it will be funny, but I am under no illusions as to why he is so bad and why he was originally kicked out. His time is not infinite.
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Nov 20, 2019 19:44
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Xiahou Dun posted:Edit : ^^^ Uh, thanks, I guess? Sorry, it's an old in-joke for the thread that JRode's one weakness is someone that knows... anything, really. And I meant what I said. I appreciate that post, and couldn't make the joke again without it. I just wanted to explain why I felt the need to quote it in full, despite not adding much to it. Xiahou Dun posted:O thank god. I was getting pretty hot under the collar there and ramping it back as best I could ; I was worried I'd eat a probe or something. Sorry, German, Holocaust stuff, you can imagine it gets me pretty feisty but also self-conscious. If it helps, I've called him an utter moral vacuum in the thread before, so I think you're safe. And I know the feeling of absolute, incandescent rage he inspires.
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Nov 20, 2019 19:46
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polymathy posted:Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany. He didn't have to kill them, he just wanted them gone. No, he didn't. He wanted them in Germany so that he could kill them: 
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Nov 20, 2019 19:50
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TLM3101 posted:Sorry, it's an old in-joke for the thread that JRode's one weakness is someone that knows... anything, really. And I meant what I said. I appreciate that post, and couldn't make the joke again without it. I just wanted to explain why I felt the need to quote it in full, despite not adding much to it. Word up. Just you know, I'm just a person who has some basic history knowledge and is German so I had to learn a bunch of this stuff*, so I'm hardly an expert. Just learned some basic facts. I can point to multiple other posters who are much better informed and can rattle off actual facts. While I'm sure as poo poo not proud of what my ancestors did, I'm proud that Germany actually got its poo poo together (sort of) and is super committed to something like that never, ever happening again. *Ask me about when I had to sit alone in a gas chamber in Auschwitz. In the dark. Smelling nothing but death and shame. I was like 6-7 years old. And yeah, gently caress this guy.
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Nov 20, 2019 20:12
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If I found myself in position where I constantly had to clarify that CP should be illegal and that Hitler was in fact bad instead of people just natural assuming it I would seriously reconsider my arguments.
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Nov 20, 2019 20:12
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